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This thread is here to answer any questions Wrestlehut posters may have about Our Gay Sport(s), and to help them understand what the hell we are talking about. I'm going to start with Mixed Martial Arts, since it is the most popular and also the one I know the most about.  What is MMA?- MMA is a sport in which combatants use techniques from numerous martial arts to defeat their opponent. In MMA striking and grappling techniques are both allowed, and there are 3 main ways to win- knockout/TKO, submission, or judges decision. Despite what ignorant pundits will say, MMA is a closely regulated sport with a clearly defined set of rules designed to minimize danger to the participants. (see “The Rules” below) The History- The full history of mixed martial arts would take forever to fully type out, but this article from Bloody Elbow does a pretty good job of hitting the important notes. TLDR: Vale Tudo was fought in Brazil throughout the late 20th century. The UFC started in 1993 as a tournament that pitted different one dimensional fighting styles against each other, pro-wrestling in Japan evolved to shoot fighting and eventually MMA in the mid to late 90s, and then JMMA busted around 2006 as stars faded and fad-loving masses got bored. Zuffa bought the UFC in 2001 and implemented a tournament-like policy regarding match making that built stars based on talent, helping to legitimize the sport. The Promotions- Major League - UFC- The biggest, most successful promotion, with the superstar roster to match. Most of the big names (with a few notable exceptions) fight for the UFC. They promoted 24 events last year with 15 being PPV and the rest being free on SPIKE or Versus. They also produce The Ultimate Fighter reality show which is largely responsible for the current boom in MMA. The promotion was saved from certain death when it was bought by parent company Zuffa in 2001, which is owned by brothers Frank and Lorenzo Fertitta, and the UFC President, Dana White. PRIDE- Went belly up in ‘07 after numerous scandals and tons of amazing fights. PRIDE was extremely popular amongst hardcore MMA fans, and for good reason. Their unique rule set, elaborate production values, questionable officiating, and interesting matchmaking became a hallmark of big time Japanese MMA. Their content and some fighter contracts were bought out by Zuffa. WEC - Now defunct, the WEC was used by Zuffa to build their 135 and 145 pound divisions before merging them into the UFC. They showed excellent cards for free on VS, and while completely ignored by mainstream media, produced some of the most exciting fights ever. B League - Strikeforce- The default #2 US MMA promotion, Strikeforce offers non-exclusive contracts that appeal to bad fighters, crooks, and Alistair Overeem, giving them a large talent pool that is impossible to work with. It wasn't always this way, though: fatherdog posted:Once upon a time, Scott Coker decided to put together a small regional MMA promotion to make money off of local ticket sales based on building local names and signing whatever mid-level draws were available. For years, they grew steadily on strong gate receipts and popular draws from the San Jose area. Then they took over the tattered remnants of EliteXC, and like everything tainted by the slimy touch of Gary Shaw, things rapidly went downhill. DREAM- The offspring of the former K1 MMA promotion and the former staff of PRIDE. They are finanaced by FEG, who also promote the K1 brand. It seems like FEG is on the verge of collapse, and big time Japanese MMA might go with it. Bellator- A relatively new, television based promotion that has season long tournaments with events scattered around the US each week for a few months. They have upgraded from ESPN Deportes to FSN to now MTV2 and put on interesting, fun and, more importantly, free cards that you won't watch. Others: Sengoku, Shark Fights, Tachi Palace Fights The Rules- Here’s the Cliff Note version from UFC.com UFC.com posted:
Bear in mind- some organizations have slightly different rules- for example in many Japanese MMA orgs, kicking an opponent in the head on the ground is alright, but elbows to the head are illegal. In Strikeforce, it is illegal to throw elbows on the ground, because their movie star ex-champion does not want his face uglied. The Fighters- As a new fan, you may wonder, “What fighters should I look out for?” Well wonder no more. I’ll go ahead and list the top 10 fighters in each weight class according to bloodyelbow.com (as of Feb 1st, 2011), as well as any recommendations I may have. Take these rankings with a grain of salt- no ranking system is perfect- in fact every top ten list ever made loving blows. Just use these lists as a reference for fighters you should check out if you have some time. Heavyweight (Over 205 lbs) code:Light Heavyweight (186-205 lbs) code:Middleweight (171-185 lbs) code:Welterweight (156-170 lbs) code:Other guys to watch- Dan Hardy, Jake Ellenberger, Chris Lytle Lightweight (146-155 lbs) code:Other guys to watch- Clay Guida, Takanori Gomi, Melvin Guillard, Anthony Pettis Featherweight (136-145 lbs) code:Other guys to watch- Rani Yahya, Mike Thomas Brown, Joe Warren Bantamweight (126-135 lbs) code:Other guys to watch- Masakazu Imanari, Demetrious Johnson, Damacio Page Flyweight (up to 125) Flyweight is current not a division in any major promotion, with Shooto and Tachi Palace Fights putting on the most matches. The UFC will eventually get around to picking this weight class up, but currently these little dudes get even littler paychecks. code:No Love For The Ladies? What can I say about Women's MMA? First off, the talent pool just isn't there. It's impossible to create full divisions like the ones you see with men. This is the main reason that we'll never see women in the UFC. Strikeforce has been giving a rather half-hearted attempt to start some divisions, and Bellator has put on a tournament. Unfortunately these meager offerings by US promotors in the last few years are far more credible and relevant than anything done prior. That said- here are some girls to look out for in no particular order, off the top of my head. 145 lbs. Cristiane "Cyborg" Santos (Strikeforce Champ) 135 lbs. Marloes Coenen (Strikeforce Champ) Sarah Kaufman Roxy Modaferri Miesha Tate Shayna Baszler 125 lbs. Tara LaRosa 115 lbs. Zoila Frausto(Bellator Champ) Megumi Fujii The Fights every MMA fan must see (according to a bunch of goons) I'm going to try to edit in as many of these as I can find  Watch this goddamn fightKazuo Misaki vs. Jorge Santiago 2 - watch it Fedor/Nogueira 1 Nogueira/Sapp Matsui-Schrijber Tank/Vitor Yuki Nakai/Gerard Gordeau Pete Williams/Coleman Couture-Sylvia Rampage/Arona Nog/Fedor 2 Rampage/Wandy 2 GSP/Hughes 3 Hunt/Crocop A second space devoted to all of Hunt's other fights Rampage/Chuck Wandy/Chuck Anderson/Franklin 2 Hughes/Gracie Space devoted to all of Igor Vovchanchyn's fights before he began a gnarled mess of calcified hands. Frye/Takayama Guida/Huerta Barnett/Nog Fedor/Crocop Rutten/Kohsaka Sylvia/Nog Liddell/Silva Babalu/Heath Shogun vs Nogueira Rampage vs Silva II Nogueira vs Crocop Fedor vs Crocop Karo vs Sanchez Ninja vs Sperry Sakuraba vs Newton Gomi vs CRUSHER Hansen vs Alvarez (Fight of the Year 2008) part 2 Nick Diaz vs Diego Sanchez Roger Huerta vs Clay Guida Tyson Griffin vs Clay Guida Joachim Hansen vs Luis Azeredo Tyson Griffin/Frankie Edgar Kazuo Misaki vsYoshihiro Akiyama Torres vs Maeda Diaz/Gomi Diaz/Lawler Diaz/Parisyan Gomi/Pulver Edgar/Maynard 2 Silva/Sonnen Henderson/Pettis Links- MMA Blog Aggregator - See everyone's headlines on one page! MMAjunkie - Reliable, professional(comparatively), boring. Sherdog - Poorly written, terrible analysis, the worst community. The most popular site, and sometimes worthwhile content comes from here. BloodyElbow - Once the best MMA blog on the net, now on a crash course to being worse than Sherdog. Great depth of coverage and speed, though. There are several discussion threads here on SA, broken down by sport and promotion: UFC general discussion B-league MMA(anything that's not Zuffa owned ) K-1 kickboxing Boxing Grappling Overeem Chat We also try to put up gameday threads when there's a card happening for general low content posts. Chat with goons in #MMA on irc.synirc.net Mons Public fucked around with this message at 12:59 on Mar 30, 2011 |
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Feb 2, 2011 04:12
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 What is K-1? Much like the UFC, K-1 was born in the early 90's, consisting of style vs style bouts organised by the Seidokaikan karate organisation with the aim of finding out which standup fighting style was strongest. The answer? Well probably Muay Thai but they're all pretty good except Taekwondo. After using freakshow fights to temporarily boost ratings, K1's popularity died and focus returned to fights. The last few years have been awesome, and if you're just getting into it now, you missed out. K1's parent company FEG is running on empty, but the K1 brand is still strong and if worse comes to worst, someone will probably buy the name at least. Also, It's Showtime puts on some great cards. What are the rules? The rules are actually CONTINUOUSLY CHANGED FROM EVENT TO EVENT BEHIND THE SCENES. No rules meeting regarding the clinch is ever the same. In general, however:
What are the weight classes? Super heavyweight: Above 100kg Heavyweight: Under 100kg Despite these two divisions having separate championship events, the talent is not segregated and a yearly contest is held for the super-heavyweight GP crown. There is no heavyweight GP crown. MAX Divisions Middleweight: Under 70kg Lightweight: Under 60kg Lightweight is a new addition to MAX, it's not really a fully fledged division. MAX's popularity is at an all time low, mainly due to the retirement of heartthrob Masato, and Kid Yamamoto being a human being who isn't good at fighting. K1 also puts on Regional tournaments and Child Abuse tournaments (Koushien). Have a list of cool fights that I should watch? Yes. Coitus and Duncan have compiled some awesome fights and further explanation of what K-1 is all about. Read that post, watch the fights, be amazed. Are there any non-K1 kickboxing promotions? Yes, but few that are noteworthy. It's Showtime is a Dutch organization that has been putting on high level cards, and then there is random stuff like S-Cup, but most are tiny compared to K1. Links Headkick Legend - Blog with the largest coverage and consistent updates. Nightmare of Battle - Japanese MMA and K-1 blog K-1 Official Site - is now regularly updated with news and features, check it out! It's all really lame but support the effort. K-1 Youtube Channel - home of cool poo poo K-1 Twitter - if you're some kind of dork. K-1 Fans Forum - register here for some delightful surprises! There is a site that always has fights, you should pick up the name if you read the threads at all  And that's it. If you're new to all this, MAX is really the premiere product. Watch it. Mons Public fucked around with this message at 17:54 on Feb 2, 2011 |
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Feb 2, 2011 04:13
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 What Is Boxing? Boxing is one of the oldest sports in the history of the world. I mean come on it's two men punching each other in the face who doesn't like to watch that? It has developed over the years into the sport we know today. The Rules In 1867 the Marquess of Queensberry made the rules that are still followed in boxing to this day.
Of course there have been slight modifications here and there but that's about the gist of a boxing match. Two men punching each other, with as little clinching as possible, until the end of all the rounds or a ko/tko happens. The Punches
The Stances A boxers stance is very important to which of his punches will have more power and what type of punches it will be easier for him to get hit with. Generally stance isn't really a big decider unless a southpaw has a huge problem with straight rights.
Every boxer has their own style but they can be categorized into 5 archetypes.
What is the current state of boxing? Why is a sport with so much history and cultural significance on the decline? It's really just greedy promoters and stupid alphabet soup organizations. The way boxing works today is that if you're a champion you have to pay a fee to the organization that you hold the belt for if you're going to defend it and so does your opponent. So that basically makes titles meaningless at this point because who honestly wants to pay 50k to fight some scrub that is up in the rankings and a mandatory fight for him? This is how the alphabet soup titles all came to be. This is why the rankings for none of the titles matter either as they just want a guy that will pay them and they can force the champ to mandatorily defend against. Those are the ranking issues. Then the managerial issues are that boxing is run by greedy assholes with bigger egos than the fighters. When you have two top guys that everyone wants to see fight (Floyd v Manny) and they are under different promotion banners it becomes a pissing match to see who can get who to concede to more. This is why a lot of fights don't get made. Then there is the protection factor where managers will keep their fighter fighting journeymen to pad their record so they can get a title shot. Leaving legitimate threats to the top without fights (Paul Williams was in this situation for a long time). These are the major problems with boxing as I see it. What could remedy all this? An organization like the UFC might work but then you'll end up with tons of others popping up and none of the top guys fighting again. The UFC situation won't work unless you are hyper dominant and that won't happen unless someone wants to invest billions. Maybe a TV deal like the ABC one and every Friday night or whatever but people just won't watch. I think the onus is on boxers to stand out and make change like Floyd did when he refused to pay the fee to defend his belt. It's just a very difficult situation. The Fighters This is the rings pound for pound list and includes some of the best guys at various weights. I'm not going to include rankings for each weight class because there are too many and I'm lazy but I will link you to the ring rankings.
The Fights Here are some fights that you can look up to get you started in watching boxing there's a seriously long history to this sport so I'm just going to cherry pick some of my favorite fights. Jack Johnson vs James J. Jeffries Jess Willard vs Jack Dempsey Jack Dempsey vs Gene Tunney Joe Louis vs Max Schmeling 1-2 Joe Louis vs Billy Conn Jersey Joe Walcott vs Ezzard Charles 1-3 Jersey Joe Walcott vs Rocky Marciano Rocky Marciano vs Archie Moore Floyd Patterson vs Ingemar Johansson 1-3 Cassius Clay vs Sonny Liston 1-2 Muhammad Ali vs Joe Frazier 1-3 Muhammad Ali vs George Foreman Muhammad Ali Vs Earnie Shavers Tommy Hearns vs Roberto Duran Tommy Hearns vs Marvin Hagler Tommy Hearns vs Sugar Ray Leonard 1 Sugar Ray Leonard vs Roberto Duran 1-2 Hector Macho Camacho vs Edwin Rosario Hector Macho Comacho vs Sugar Ray Leonard Mike Tyson vs Trevor Berbick Mike Tyson vs Donovan Razor Ruddock 1-2 Pernel Whitaker vs Oscar De La Hoya Pernel Whitaker vs Julio Cesar Chavez Oscar De La Hoya vs Felix Trinidad Naseem Hamed vs Kevin Kelly Naseem Hamed vs Marco Antonio Barrera Macro Antonio Barrera vs Erik Morales 1-3 Erik Morales Vs Manny Pacquiao 1-2 Israel Vasquez vs Rafael Marquez 1-3 Micky Ward vs Arturo Gatti 1-3 Floyd Mayweather Jr. vs Emmanuel Augustus Floyd Mayweather Jr. vs Diego Corales Floyd Mayweather Jr. vs Jose Luis Castillo 1-2 Floyd Mayweather Jr. vs Zab Judah Zab Judah vs Kostya Tszyu Kostya Tszyu vs Diosbelys Hurtado Kostya Tszyu vs Ricky Hatton Ricky Hatton vs Floyd Mayweather Jr. Ricky Hatton vs Manny Pacquiao Miguel Cotto vs Manny Pacquiao Miguel Cotto vs Paulie Malinaggi Sergei Liakhovich vs Shannon Briggs Sergei Liakhovich vs Lamon Brewster Wladimir Klitschko vs Lamon Brewster 1-2 Links FightNews - upcoming fight schedule, Fighter rankings BoxingScene - news and articles Bad Left Hook - blog BoxRec - fighter records Mons Public fucked around with this message at 03:04 on Feb 3, 2011 |
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Feb 2, 2011 04:13
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If anyone wants to add anything, send me a PM and I'll put it here.
Mons Public fucked around with this message at 05:23 on Feb 2, 2011 |
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Feb 2, 2011 04:14
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Don't forget Leonard Garcia vs. Korean Zombie. One of the best fights of the year.
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Feb 2, 2011 04:35
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This might be a dumb question, but if Overeem and Fedor are in the same fed, and Overeem is the champ, why is Fedor ranked higher?
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Feb 2, 2011 04:59
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Ahhh this is fantastic.
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Feb 2, 2011 04:59
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Beef Jerky Robot posted:This might be a dumb question, but if Overeem and Fedor are in the same fed, and Overeem is the champ, why is Fedor ranked higher? because overeem really hasn't fought against the kind of competition that fedor has, even if he hasnt really beaten anyone relevant in a couple years. That, and fedor has been actively ducking him (see dis thread).
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Feb 2, 2011 05:02
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Beef Jerky Robot posted:This might be a dumb question, but if Overeem and Fedor are in the same fed, and Overeem is the champ, why is Fedor ranked higher? 1. Rankings are retarded. 2. Fedor fans are retarded. 3. Most people doing the rankings are Fedor fans.
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Feb 2, 2011 05:02
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Beef Jerky Robot posted:This might be a dumb question, but if Overeem and Fedor are in the same fed, and Overeem is the champ, why is Fedor ranked higher? a better question: why isnt werdum
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Feb 2, 2011 05:02
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Beef Jerky Robot posted:This might be a dumb question, but if Overeem and Fedor are in the same fed, and Overeem is the champ, why is Fedor ranked higher? Short answer: Rankings are dumb and don't really work for mma. Government fucked around with this message at 05:07 on Feb 2, 2011 |
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Feb 2, 2011 05:05
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Beef Jerky Robot posted:This might be a dumb question, but if Overeem and Fedor are in the same fed, and Overeem is the champ, why is Fedor ranked higher? Because MMA rankings are completely subjective and sometimes maybe even many times aren't supported by reality. If two guys haven't fought each other its hard to say who is better. Fedor coasted for a long time on his unbeaten russian cyborg routine, which was mostly smoke and mirrors combining a long list of hand picked opponents and shameless hype by his russian mob handlers. Not saying that Fedor is terrible, clearly he's not, he's beaten some of the greats, but that was 5 years ago in PRIDE. Since then he's coasted on his reputation and fighting not very good opponents and sometimes looking overwhelming against them.
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Feb 2, 2011 05:06
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Wait, if big-time Japanese MMA is possibly on the verge of collapse, and Puro is also on a downturn, what's the big combat sport in Japan? I guess this is more of a Japan question than an MMA question.
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Feb 2, 2011 05:07
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henkman posted:1. Rankings are retarded. Is empty quoting ok in this subforum? Because this is a Perfect Post
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Feb 2, 2011 05:07
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Doctor Nick posted:Don't forget Leonard Garcia vs. Korean Zombie. One of the best fights of the year. This makes me wonder if we should have a thread where MMA, Wrestling, and Boxing fans all share their favorite stories/matches/whatevers.
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Feb 2, 2011 05:07
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Thank you for the OP! As someone who's never followed MMA or K-1, it explained a lot, especially which league/federation is which.
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Feb 2, 2011 05:07
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sticky this, take down the books thread
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Feb 2, 2011 05:08
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RE: Vale Tudo I never hear ya'll talk about it, like at all. Are there any must-watch matches or anything like that?
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Feb 2, 2011 05:08
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"Don't stick your finger in any orifice" is my favorite rule for a sport ever. Thanks for the thread though, I've seen some K-1 footage and always wondered where the cage is.
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Feb 2, 2011 05:11
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ForbiddenWonder posted:RE: Vale Tudo it doesnt really exist anymore if you mean no holds barred, but you can watch the first few UFCs if you want to see people getting hit in the balls
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Feb 2, 2011 05:12
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This is going to be very brief. Lots of you reading this will be completely new to K-1. Click one of these, any of them. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IvlFoQTse8s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xH2IxgvCYJ0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yUwVPfZdvoU or if you have super add click this instead, it has street fighter music and phil baroni liked it https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hW354-zgJkI
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Feb 2, 2011 05:14
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ForbiddenWonder posted:RE: Vale Tudo Well MMA grew out of Vale Tudo in some ways. It was big in the early 90s but I don't think there's any real orgs putting on Vale Tudo fights any more. Maybe some back alley Brazilian poo poo, but for all intents and purposes Vale Tudo is dead.
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Feb 2, 2011 05:15
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yeah, I guess I was meant the league where yvel Won Something I know it doesn't exist anymore, lol
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Feb 2, 2011 05:16
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Beef Jerky Robot posted:This might be a dumb question, but if Overeem and Fedor are in the same fed, and Overeem is the champ, why is Fedor ranked higher? The first thing to always consider about rankings is that they are stupid and are put together by stupid people. Other things to consider are that the strikeforce belt means nothing, it is never defended and the people that get title shots are coming off loses. Also, Fedor gets ranked highly for literally no reason other than his trumped up pride legacy.
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Feb 2, 2011 05:16
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Just look up street fighting on your favorite video streaming website and you'll have more than enough Vale Tudo.
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Feb 2, 2011 05:16
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henkman posted:1. Rankings are retarded. To give a non-Fedor example for over a year now Vitor Belfort has been in most rankings as a top ten Middleweight, usually between fourth and sixth. This is retarded for two reasons: Vitor hasn't fought in about eighteen months. Vitor hasn't fought at Middleweight. Don't try and work it out.
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Feb 2, 2011 05:17
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Yeah, basically the only belts that mean anything are the UFC belts.
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Feb 2, 2011 05:17
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Did anyone ever expect anything from Kimbo besides a sideshow of failure?
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Feb 2, 2011 05:18
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Regarding the Strikeforce belt confusion: Strikeforce's belts are meaningless. Overeem won the belt years ago and defended it once against a Walmart tire salesman (seriously) last year before deciding that he rather do K-1. Nick Diaz the 170lb champ has spent as much time fighting at middleweight and recently defended his belt against a 155lb fighter and against Evangelista Santos who is not a good fighter. The 185lb champ defended his belt against Dan Henderson, then promptly left Strikeforce for the greener pastures of the UFC. In short, when it comes to champions in the men's bantamweight to heavyweight divisions, the UFC is the only legitimate belt.
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Feb 2, 2011 05:18
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KungFu Grip posted:Did anyone ever expect anything from Kimbo besides a sideshow of failure? Not anyone who knows anything about fighting.
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Feb 2, 2011 05:19
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That makes sense (the answers, not the rankings). Thanks guys!
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Feb 2, 2011 05:19
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KungFu Grip posted:Did anyone ever expect anything from Kimbo besides a sideshow of failure? I'd actually say he surpassed expectations, what with him actually learning grappling and being aggressive with takedowns in his 2 UFC fights.
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Feb 2, 2011 05:21
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A Pale Horse posted:Not anyone who knows anything about fighting. Coincidentally these people aren't where the money comes from, so freakshows have a proud history in all combat sports
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Feb 2, 2011 05:22
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KungFu Grip posted:Did anyone ever expect anything from Kimbo besides a sideshow of failure? Well I think making lots of money was expected, and that pretty much happened. But in terms of actual significance in the sport no, nobody ever expected anything of him. He is notable for how terrible his fight with Houston Alexander was, and for this:  And for apparently being awesome at barbecue.
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Feb 2, 2011 05:22
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Giovanni Qobras posted:Coincidentally these people aren't where the money comes from, so freakshows have a proud history in all combat sports As well they should. You know me, I love a good freakshow fight. PUDZIAN POWER!
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Feb 2, 2011 05:23
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Grab Your Foot! posted:Well I think making lots of money was expected, and that pretty much happened. But in terms of actual significance in the sport no, nobody ever expected anything of him. He is notable for how terrible his fight with Houston Alexander was, and for this: This is literally the best thing Kimbo has done in fight sports.
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Feb 2, 2011 05:24
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Grab Your Foot! posted:Man you guys sure need your own gif thread. I can watch this forever.
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Feb 2, 2011 05:24
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A Pale Horse posted:This is literally the best thing Kimbo has done in fight sports. Just wait until he gets the poo poo slapped out of him by that wacky sumo dude that Sapp chickened out of fighting
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Feb 2, 2011 05:25
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Giovanni Qobras posted:Just wait until he gets the poo poo slapped out of him by that wacky sumo dude that Sapp chickened out of fighting can't wait 
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Feb 2, 2011 05:26
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A Pale Horse posted:This is literally the best thing Kimbo has done in fight sports. I still posit that the 3+ minutes of circling before that gif occurred are the best thing he has ever done
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Feb 2, 2011 05:27
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