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Given Joe Rogan's habit of jumping into 10th Planet lingo I was thinking we may need a guide to those terms so new watchers wouldn't be confused... except I just realised outside of "Rubber Guard" I have no idea what name applies to what move and I don't think anyone else does either so essentially we'd be on equal grounds of confusion.
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# ? Feb 2, 2011 10:43 |
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# ? Apr 28, 2024 04:04 |
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Two other questions that that video reminded me of: 1) They put gel on their face to make strikes glance off and do less damage, right? 2) I remember it in boxing and might have seen it in UFC, but what is the silver metal looking circle thing that corner-men rub on fighter's face and back?
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# ? Feb 2, 2011 10:47 |
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1st AD posted:Yeah, I think some kind of general grappling FAQ is absolutely needed, because people generally get why things in boxing/kickboxing/muay thai work in MMA but as soon as a fight moves to the clinch or to the ground it's like voodoo. It should include: "The Clinch" Clinch fighting is one of the most under-appreciated and important aspects of MMA. One of the greatest of all time won world titles because of his talent in the clinch and realistically it's often an overlooked part of a fighters' repertoire. It's also not overly easy to explain because of the intricacies involved in trying to describe the ins and outs of what looks like two sweaty brutes hugging. The clinch is what's considered a largely neutral, standing grappling position. It's recognised as the most effective way to slow the pace of a fight and neutralise an opponents striking. This is different to the "Thai Clinch" more on that later though. This can be applied from front on, behind an opponent and standing to one side. "underhooks and whizzers" An underhook involves having on arm under your opponents armpit and your forearm and hand around their back in order to control their midsection / upper body. Double underhooks is both arms, a more controlling position in the clinch. A Whizzer or overhook, though a weaker position than the underhook is considered a counter to underhooks, traditionally it was done in an attempt to bearhug an opponent and trap their arms to their body, in MMA it's more done to prevent your opponent getting the necessary leverage to perform a body lock takedown (think a nice tight hug to either a trip or lean in order to pull someone to the floor), double leg takedown (rugby tackle). It also prevents being suplexed (somehow I think wrestle hut dudes know what this is). The clinch in MMA often involves pressing your opponent into the cage in an attempt to tire them out and dictate the pace of the fight. It's also an easier way to initiate a takedown if efforts during regular exchanges have failed. Wrestlers and grapplers often attempt to employ this technique when facing "sprawl and brawl" fighters or in BJ Penn's case, a fighter who's got uncanny balance, agility and avoidance-of-takedowns ability. It can make a fight more exciting and it can also make it extremely boring when two gassed out (exhausted) heavyweights just lean against the fence throwing human being punches while they catch their breath until the ref separates them. If you're watching a fighter the guy in the clinch who's got the underhooks has the more dominant position even if their back is against the cage, getting underhooks can lead to some explosive reversals and offense. If no one has I'll explain the difference with a thai clinch tomorrow.
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# ? Feb 2, 2011 10:57 |
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Hockles posted:Two other questions that that video reminded me of: The vaseline is used sometimes as a bit of a coagulant but more it's to stop punches sticking it also helps to stop cuts from forming as badly and bleeding as profusely. The metal thing is used to help reduce swelling, usually it sits in an ice bucket so it's extremely cold. I don't know why they'd use it on their back but I know some fighters have referenced the ice packs on the back of their neck help them to feel more alert and focus between rounds, refreshing them a little and clearing the cob webbs. The whole cut science is really interesting this is a great article on cuts in combat sports in general http://sports.espn.go.com/espnmag/story?section=magazine&id=3688085 EDIT: Something I wanted to add too: in boxing they use their own cutman in their corner, in the UFC they use an allocated cutman, the reason for this is greasing. Fighters in the past have been accused and guilty of having lotions or greases or vaseline applied to their body in between and before rounds in order to make it harder for an opposing fighter to properly grab hold of them. The rules were actually changed to their current state after one of these scandals, it's even caused results to be overturned to No Contests in the past. BlindSite fucked around with this message at 11:14 on Feb 2, 2011 |
# ? Feb 2, 2011 11:10 |
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I casually watch UFC so I know a few fighters, but feel like asking anyway, who are some really good fighters in UFC and MMA in general?
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# ? Feb 2, 2011 11:39 |
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Jack Anderson posted:I casually watch UFC so I know a few fighters, but feel like asking anyway, who are some really good fighters in UFC and MMA in general? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_4JYD3oxlUg
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# ? Feb 2, 2011 11:47 |
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That K1 OP could use a little filling out. First, every K1 thread ever should include whats probably the best description of K1 I have ever read. duncan posted:For those not in the know, K-1 is the product of a consortium of Japanese criminals who spent a lot of money scouring the world for the finest athletes to answer the age old question: just how tall or fat does a man have to be to make a fight between him and a top class kickboxer boring? Then, post all of this goodness here. dunc, like forever ago posted:10 great fights: I cut out the last fight because it sucked and gently caress Cyril Abidi, if you want to see it find it yourself. dunc, continued posted:10 great knockouts: Coitus_Interruptus posted:Then duncan posted some curiosities but I'm also skipping those. I'm sure if you ask he will post them again. Sato, Kohirumaki, and Kido are all great fighters despite never becoming champs. Its true, look, duncan agrees. and heres a sweet informative Buakaw Superpost. Giovanni Qobras posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LJM5YvOL4P4 Since those posts there have been some startling and exciting developments in the world of punch-kick man (and occasionally child) fighting have occurred. Giorgio Petrosyan won the MAX Title in 2010 becoming the first man to ever win back to back MAX titles. He made his way through Albert Kraus Mike Zambidis and Yoshihiro Sato though this impressive achievement would be overshadowed by Mike Zambidis quite possibly thebest MAX fight of 2010 Alistair Overeem won the K1 Crown, but incredibly, somehow, that was a disappointment for all of us. Probably because he beat Peter Aerts, who had earlier achieved what we all thought was impossible Rocky has nothing on this poo poo, NOTHING. Sadly Alistair beat up an exhausted and damaged Aerts in the final, after having beaten an also tired and exhausted Gokhan Saki, who had also given us what, until we saw Aerts we all considered the fight of the night in this incredible display of guts and leg kicking. Which kind of muddies and sullies the victory. Still, thats the nature of the beast with tournaments. In child fighting news, Noiri continues being incredibly awesome http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YQq7gZKY8KE http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a0kkYKVOd4o http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V47K4oP7SE4 So are some other Koshien veterans http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LsKehDobMgI http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ro_RmrwHmyw 2010 K1 Koshien Champion would be Shoei Hareyama, who took the title in a real faggy way, being helped immensely by the awful awful tournament structure where he managed to avoid almost all the dangerous Koshien veterans only really having to contend with Ryosuke Sasaki. Still, good fights from the Ishida Brothers, Noiri, but most importantly importantly this: Giovanni Qobras posted:Ren Takeno has one eye and wears a Transformers logo on his shorts. His nickname is now Perceptor. The final thing I want to leave you with, is K1 veteran and avid crossdresser Yoichiro "Jienotsu" Nagashima giving us all an incredible gift this past Dynamite http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_ahWcGWlSZBM/TR45LqopEjI/AAAAAAAABGE/NGVQx-s4sGY/s1600/Shinya+Aoki+vs+Yuichiro.jpg Ciprian Maricon fucked around with this message at 13:39 on Feb 2, 2011 |
# ? Feb 2, 2011 11:49 |
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Jack Anderson posted:I casually watch UFC so I know a few fighters, but feel like asking anyway, who are some really good fighters in UFC and MMA in general? Lightweights: BJ Penn (now fights at WW) Gray Maynard Frank Edgar George Sotiropolis Jim Miller Clay Guida Kenny Florian Welterweight Nick Diaz Nate Diaz George St Pierre John Fitch (new comers will find him boring) Thiago Alves (really great for new comers) Matt Hughes (his old stuff) Aaron Kampmann Middleweight Chael Sonnen Anderson Silva Damian Maia Yushin Okami Nate Marqhardt Michael Bisping Wanderlei Silva Light Heavyweight Ryan Bader Johnny Bones Jones Lyoto Machida Forrest Griffin (all his fights are fun to watch) Shogun Rua Rampage Jackson Chuck Liddell (any of his title fights) Rashad Evans Heavyweight Cain Velasquez Big Nog Fedor (formerly) Alistair Overeem Brock Lesnar Junior Dos Santos Goon favourite Roy Nelson
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# ? Feb 2, 2011 12:00 |
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I have the opposite question to whoever asked about great submission fighters. I find that whenever a fight goes to the ground I have absolutely no idea what the hell is happening, so I was wondering what the best fights are in like, the UFC, that were all about strikes and didn't involve any ground hugging.
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# ? Feb 2, 2011 12:34 |
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Ghost Head posted:I have the opposite question to whoever asked about great submission fighters. I find that whenever a fight goes to the ground I have absolutely no idea what the hell is happening, so I was wondering what the best fights are in like, the UFC, that were all about strikes and didn't involve any ground hugging. Click everything Coitus posted above you. If you don't want "ground hugging" watch K-1, it is awesome.
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# ? Feb 2, 2011 12:51 |
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Ghost Head posted:I have the opposite question to whoever asked about great submission fighters. I find that whenever a fight goes to the ground I have absolutely no idea what the hell is happening, so I was wondering what the best fights are in like, the UFC, that were all about strikes and didn't involve any ground hugging. You really should try to learn what is going on when there is grappling in a fight. Watching Mayweather in boxing do a right straight counter is a beautiful thing, watching Michael Jordan dunk a basketball is beautiful thing, watching George St.Pierre pass BJ Penn's guard is a beautiful thing. You are missing out man!
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# ? Feb 2, 2011 13:34 |
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BlindSite posted:
This is not a thing. A good way to look at most of the best 170ers int he UFC is to watch all of Paulo Thiago's fights. They're all pretty exciting and will give you a pretty good idea of what the top echelons of the UFC are all about at 170 outside of GSP.
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# ? Feb 2, 2011 14:07 |
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Ghost Head posted:I have the opposite question to whoever asked about great submission fighters. I find that whenever a fight goes to the ground I have absolutely no idea what the hell is happening, so I was wondering what the best fights are in like, the UFC, that were all about strikes and didn't involve any ground hugging. watch k-1. giants, midgets, one eyed children, k-1 truly has it all.
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# ? Feb 2, 2011 14:38 |
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Burrito posted:All I want to see in MMA is submissions. Just constant, awesome submissions. Kazushi Sakuraba between 1997 and 2001.
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# ? Feb 2, 2011 14:40 |
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Anyone want to contribute some must watch fights from 2005-present day? I just realized how little I follow modern day boxing and it made me sad.
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# ? Feb 2, 2011 14:54 |
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Meat Recital posted:Kazushi Sakuraba between 1997 and 2001. http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x7w4jg_k-1-dynamite-hideo-tokoro-vs-daisuk_sport basically anything with these two
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# ? Feb 2, 2011 15:02 |
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this is a necessity
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# ? Feb 2, 2011 15:29 |
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This is mandatory viewing for everybody. Watch it in HD: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EAAgt6mGXIY
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# ? Feb 2, 2011 15:48 |
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Save Russian Jews posted:
The absolute best B league tag.
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# ? Feb 2, 2011 15:50 |
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Bubba Smith posted:Strikeforce tag is a bit much. The promotion is growing but it doesn't represent all B-League promotions. An overall MMA tag would be better. What about a TUF tag? They run that as a series twice a year plus kick off and finale cards.
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# ? Feb 2, 2011 16:07 |
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mobn posted:This is mandatory viewing for everybody. Watch it in HD: Yeah, this is an absolute pro-click right here. Saku
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# ? Feb 2, 2011 16:08 |
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Here's a post Boxing is one of the oldest sports in the history of the world. I mean come on it's two men punching each other in the face who doesn't like to watch that? It has developed over the years into the sport we know today. The Rules In 1867 the Marquess of Queensberry made the rules that are still followed in boxing to this day.
Of course there have been slight modifications here and there but that's about the gist of a boxing match. Two men punching each other, with as little clinching as possible, until the end of all the rounds or a ko/tko happens. The Punches Jab- this is the beginning of everything in boxing. It is a simple straight punch with the forward hand. Cross or Straight- This is a straight punch with the back hand Hook- A punch with a circular motion. Uppercut- A punch coming from bottom to top. Those are the four basic punches and all you have to worry about for now. The Stances A boxers stance is very important to which of his punches will have more power and what type of punches it will be easier for him to get hit with. Generally stance isn't really a big decider unless a southpaw has a huge problem with straight rights. Orthodox- This is the stance for almost every right-handed fighter. Left foot is forward right foot is in the back. Southpaw- This is the stance for almost every left-handed fighter. Right foot forward left foot is in the back. The Styles Every boxer has their own style but they can be categorized into 5 archetypes. Boxer/Out-fighter- This is imo the best style to watch. It's boxing at its purest. The out-fighter fights on the outside(duh) and utiliazes fast, long range punches to do his damage. Every boxer will have an excellent jab and will know how to work the ring. Notable out-fighters: Ali, Oscar De La Hoya, Floyd Mayweather Jr. Boxer-puncher- Boxer punchers tend to be well rounded boxers being able to fight on the inside as well as the outside. They have similar technique to the out-fighter but are able to KO their opponents more often. Notable boxer-punchers: Sugar Ray Robinson, Manny Pacquiao, Tommy Hearns Brawler- Boxers with incredible punch strength and not much else. These guys take two punches to give one and that one punch is usually a doozy. Slow and predictable these guys will always have to win by KO. Notable brawlers: George Foreman, Ray "Boom Boom" Mancini Swarmer/In-fighter- Pressure is the name of the game. Staying incredibly close to their opponents and throwing combinations on top of combinations these fighters will stick to you like white on rice. They use bobbing and weaving to get to the inside and when they get there boy are you in trouble. Notable in-fighters: Jack Dempsey, Joe Frazier, Mike Tyson Counter Punchers- These fighters are defensive geniuses that rely on punching when their opponent misses. Capitalizing on your opponents mistakes is difficult though and these guys have to have the mental toughness to stare down punches waiting for their counters. Notable counter punchers: Juan Manuel Marquez, Bernard Hopkins, James Toney How these styles match up is what makes the world of boxing interesting and as the saying goes "styles make fights." The Fighters This is the rings pound for pound list and includes some of the best guys at various weights. I'm not going to include rankings for each weight class because there are too many and I'm lazy but I will link you to the ring rankings.
The Fights Here are some fights that you can look up to get you started in watching boxing there's a seriously long history to this sport so I'm just going to cherry pick some of my favorite fights. Jack Johnson vs James J. Jeffries Jess Willard vs Jack Dempsey Jack Dempsey vs Gene Tunney Joe Louis vs Max Schmeling 1-2 Joe Louis vs Billy Conn Jersey Joe Walcott vs Ezzard Charles 1-3 Jersey Joe Walcott vs Rocky Marciano Rocky Marciano vs Archie Moore Floyd Patterson vs Ingemar Johansson 1-3 Cassius Clay vs Sonny Liston 1-2 Muhammad Ali vs Joe Frazier 1-3 Muhammad Ali vs George Foreman Muhammad Ali Vs Earnie Shavers Tommy Hearns vs Roberto Duran Tommy Hearns vs Marvin Hagler Tommy Hearns vs Sugar Ray Leonard 1 Sugar Ray Leonard vs Roberto Duran 1-2 Hector Macho Camacho vs Edwin Rosario Hector Macho Comacho vs Sugar Ray Leonard Mike Tyson vs Trevor Berbick Mike Tyson vs Donovan Razor Ruddock 1-2 Pernel Whitaker vs Oscar De La Hoya Pernel Whitaker vs Julio Cesar Chavez Oscar De La Hoya vs Felix Trinidad Naseem Hamed vs Kevin Kelly Naseem Hamed vs Marco Antonio Barrera Macro Antonio Barrera vs Erik Morales 1-3 Erik Morales Vs Manny Pacquiao 1-2 Israel Vasquez vs Rafael Marquez 1-3 Micky Ward vs Arturo Gatti 1-3 Floyd Mayweather Jr. vs Emmanuel Augustus Floyd Mayweather Jr. vs Diego Corales Floyd Mayweather Jr. vs Jose Luis Castillo 1-2 Floyd Mayweather Jr. vs Zab Judah Zab Judah vs Kostya Tszyu Kostya Tszyu vs Diosbelys Hurtado Kostya Tszyu vs Ricky Hatton Ricky Hatton vs Floyd Mayweather Jr. Ricky Hatton vs Manny Pacquiao Miguel Cotto vs Manny Pacquiao Miguel Cotto vs Paulie Malinaggi Sergei Liakhovich vs Shannon Briggs Sergei Liakhovich vs Lamon Brewster Wladimir Klitschko vs Lamon Brewster 1-2 Alright this list could go on for days as I watch a lot of fights and there's tons of fighters I didn't even touch on. These are just some of the personal favorites of mine. Other people need to contribute so that there can be a variety and lower weight figths in here as I don't really watch under 130 guys.
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# ? Feb 2, 2011 16:26 |
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projecthalaxy posted:Are there any real single-style guys left in high-level MMA? I guess Roger Gracie might count, but even he seems to be succumbing to wrestleboxing. rousimar palhares, demian maia, ricardo almeida
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# ? Feb 2, 2011 16:38 |
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mobn posted:This is mandatory viewing for everybody. Watch it in HD: So let me get this straight. There's this family who have been dominant in MMA for decades. No-one can beat them. A plucky young guy who people know little about comes into PRIDE and starts wailing on people left and right. Suddenly, he beats a couple of the members of this undefeatable family who people want to see lose. Not only that, but he does it by using the very same move that was the cause of the last defeat in the family over 40 years ago. The family lose their poo poo about this and bring in their big gun. Not only do they bring in their big gun, but they alter the rules into MMA's version of a no disqualification match in the hopes of crushing this up-and-comer. After 90 minutes of comptition, the young guy finally wins and everyone goes nuts. The Gracies family threw everything they had at him and he came out on top. People are losing their poo poo. And there are STILL people who think that MMA has nothing in common with wrestling. I'd just like to say thank you for this thread. I've tried to get into MMA before but found it all a little intimidating. It looks like going through old PRRIDE stuff is best for me.
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# ? Feb 2, 2011 16:41 |
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Giovanni Qobras posted:watch k-1. giants, midgets, one eyed children, k-1 truly has it all. ahaha. I just had a quick look at K-1 on youtube. I think this is what I will watch.
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# ? Feb 2, 2011 16:54 |
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Gomi Pile posted:rousimar palhares, demian maia, ricardo almeida Reports of Maia's one-dimensional game are greatly exaggerated. Sure, BJJ will always be his go-to because he's absurdly great at it, but you can't throw Chael Sonnen around if you have no understanding of wrestling, and his striking's not awful either. Marquardt and Anderson have significantly better striking than him, but that's not such a damning statement. I think Joe Warren is probably the most one-dimensional MMA fighter who regularly competes on TV these days. Roger Gracie is also be a pretty good candidate.
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# ? Feb 2, 2011 17:02 |
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BlindSite posted:Right after I posted this I thought of Paul Daley as a pretty pure Muai Thai based striker, probably add Jose Aldo to the mix and Shinya Aoki as a pure grappler. jose aldo has a black belt in jiu jitsu from one of the best BJJ academies in the world
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# ? Feb 2, 2011 17:10 |
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for mma newbies learn this youtube url http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DS9vdoX3Ju0
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# ? Feb 2, 2011 17:13 |
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Slaapaav posted:for mma newbies learn this youtube url the link stay purple but i still click it
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# ? Feb 2, 2011 17:15 |
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Ziggy Tsardust posted:So let me get this straight. There's this family who have been dominant in MMA for decades. No-one can beat them. A plucky young guy who people know little about comes into PRIDE and starts wailing on people left and right. Suddenly, he beats a couple of the members of this undefeatable family who people want to see lose. Not only that, but he does it by using the very same move that was the cause of the last defeat in the family over 40 years ago. The family lose their poo poo about this and bring in their big gun. Not only do they bring in their big gun, but they alter the rules into MMA's version of a no disqualification match in the hopes of crushing this up-and-comer. After 90 minutes of comptition, the young guy finally wins and everyone goes nuts. The Gracies family threw everything they had at him and he came out on top. People are losing their poo poo. Sakuraba also was a professional wrestler before he got into MMA. You couldn't book his story vs. the Gracie family any better in pro wrestling than what actually happened, which really adds to my bewilderment of lovely pro wrestling booking.
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# ? Feb 2, 2011 17:31 |
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KidDynamite posted:Boxing Post Added to the OP. It would be nice if someone could write a Current History part that explains the situation that boxing is in right now and a little history that told how it got that way. I know the gist of it, but I'd rather someone who follows the sport closely explain it.
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# ? Feb 2, 2011 17:33 |
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jeffersonlives posted:Pancrase only broke off from the other UWF remnants a few months before UFC started, and the work percentage for Pancrase fights at the beginning was far higher than later on (same thing with RINGS and even PRIDE). Actually Shooto did their first professional shoot show in 1989. There was no punching on the ground but it was still a legitimate mixed grappling/striking event.
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# ? Feb 2, 2011 17:36 |
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RobBorer posted:Added to the OP. It would be nice if someone could write a Current History part that explains the situation that boxing is in right now and a little history that told how it got that way. I know the gist of it, but I'd rather someone who follows the sport closely explain it. It's really just greedy promoters and stupid alphabet soup orginizations. The way boxing works today is that if you're a champion you have to pay a fee to the orginization that you hold the belt for if you're going to defend it and so does your opponent. So that basically makes titles meaningless at this point because who honestly wants to pay 50k to fight some scrub that is up in the rankings and a mandatory fight for him. This is how the alaphabet soup titles all came to be. This is why the rankings for none of the titles matter either as they just want a guy that will pay them and they can force the champ to manditorily defend against. Those are the ranking issues. Then the managerial issues are that boxing is run by greedy assholes with bigger egos than the fighters. When you have two top guys that everyone wants to see fight (Floyd v Manny) and they are under different promotion banners it becomes a pissing match to see who can get who to concede to more. This is why a lot of fights don't get made. Then there is the protection factor where managers will keep their fighter fighting journeymen to pad their record so they can get a title shot. Leaving legitimate threats to the top without fights (Paul Williams was in this situation for a long time). These are the major problems with boxing as I see it. What could remedy all this? An orginization like the UFC I think might work but then you'll end up with tons of others popping up and none of the top guys fighting again. The UFC situation won't work unless you are hyper dominant and that won't happen unless someone wants to invest billions. Maybe a TV deal like the ABC one and every friday night or whatever but people just won't watch. I think the onus is on boxers to stand out and make change like Floyd did when he refused to pay the fee to defend his belt. It's just a very difficult situation. I'd like to here is anyone else has any thoughts as to what could be done to fix boxing.
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# ? Feb 2, 2011 17:58 |
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KidDynamite posted:I'd like to here is anyone else has any thoughts as to what could be done to fix boxing. Start a new sport that is the exact same thing as boxing, but uses 4 ounce gloves, 3 rounds of 3 minutes, and uses MMA weight classes. Get on HBO, and use a tournament system with exclusive contracts. Sign young talent and build stars while establishing a new culture. So basically UFC with none of that gay poo poo.
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# ? Feb 2, 2011 18:10 |
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Make PBF fight David Haye. That would solve 90% of boxing's problems.
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# ? Feb 2, 2011 18:24 |
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I made a thread for listing MMA personality twitter names: http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3386398 Please add any you have!
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# ? Feb 2, 2011 18:51 |
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RobBorer posted:Start a new sport that is the exact same thing as boxing, but uses 4 ounce gloves, 3 rounds of 3 minutes, and uses MMA weight classes. Get on HBO, and use a tournament system with exclusive contracts. Sign young talent and build stars while establishing a new culture. That would lead to the most hilarious fights ever and basically machine gun punching as there'd be no fatigue to worry about. I don't like the idea of lowering glove weights either as there would be lots of hand injuries.
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# ? Feb 2, 2011 19:13 |
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Hockles posted:Can somebody explain all the different positions of grappling on the ground? I get confused when they are called out in a match. This is usually referred to as "top guard" or "bottom guard" for the guy on the top and the guy on the bottom respectively. This is considered a neutral position BJJ but isn't neutral in MMA because the guy on top can punch the guy on bottom. Generally speaking, the fighters want to do a few things here. The guy on bottom either wants to work his way back to his feet, or he wants to do what's called a "sweep". A sweep is when the position is reversed so that the guy on bottom ends up on top. The guy on the bottom can also submit his opponent from this position, but that is usually hard to do. The guy on top wants to "pass the guard", which means to move to a position that is better for the top guy. This brings us to the next position. This is the half-guard. In the half the top fighter now has a better advantage. He is harder to submit and harder to sweep. He has almost passed the guard by working one leg free. He can also usually do more damage with punches because the guy on bottom has less control. This is side control. The top fighter has now completely passed the guard. This is bad for the guy on bottom, he really wants to escape or return to guard. The guy on top can do a lot of damage from here, see GSP v. Serra II. The top guy can also hit some submissions from here. The guy on the bottom also has to be very careful to not let his opponent swing one leg over, which brings us to the next position. This is mount. The top fighter can now throw down punches with a lot more intensity without worrying about getting caught in a submission. The fighter on the bottom is in huge trouble, a lot of fights end here. The fighter on top may also have opportunities for submissions. Finally there is back control. One fighter is on the back of the other. See how the fighter on the back has his legs wrapped around his opponent? This prevents the fighter in front from turning into his opponent. These are called "hooks" and you'll often hear the announcers talking about someone as saying "he's taken the back, one hook is in, he's got the other one in!" That's because having the hooks in makes it much harder to escape back control. From here the fighter in front is very vulnerable to a submission called the "rear naked choke" or the "RNC" or sometimes the "mata leon". Those are the most common positions. There are 1,001 shades within these, and there are a couple positions that I'm not covering here (north and south, knee on belly) because those are usually transitory positions. Now let's look at the more common submissions. There are lots more than what I'm covering here. I'll also talk about the positions where these submissions are usually used, but a lot of them can be hit from all sorts of positions. Armbar This is one of the most common submissions. The arm is extended straight out, and the goal of the submitter is to get his hips as close to his opponent's shoulder as possible. From there he is able to use the leverage of his hips to hyper extend the arm. This can be hit from all kinds of positions but is most commonly done from guard (below) and mount (above). Triangle This is one of the most common chokes in MMA. It is usually performed from guard. It works by trapping an arm inside the guard. One leg is forced against the chokee's neck, the other forces the trapped arm to apply pressure to the opposite side of the neck. This, like almost every choke in MMA, is a blood choke. That means the goal is to cut off bloodflow through the neck to the brain. This is much, much faster than a choke on the airway and will put people out in about 15 to 30 seconds most of the time, sometimes faster. Generally people will tap out before they go out. Googling around looking for a picture for this submission lead me to this blog, where you can go to see the triangle in action. Guillotine This is the one exception to the blood chokes rule. The guillotine can be done as both. This one is pretty simple. The aggressor catches the other person's head by wrapping their arm around their neck from above, then cranks on it. This is usually finished by "pulling guard", which means to jump up and wrap the legs around the person getting choked. This lets the choker get a lot more force on his cranking. This can work because it cuts off bloodflow, or because it cuts off airflow, or simply as a neck crank. This also fails quite often where people slip out. The guillotine is most commonly done from none of the positions above, but instead from when someone tries to take down their opponent and gets their neck grabbed for their trouble. Rear Naked Choke Wrap one arm around their neck, with their throat centered on the elbow. Grab your own bicep on the opposite arm with the choking arm. Put the non choking arm on the back of their head. Win. This is done from the back position, and it is how most fights are won from that position. Done correctly, it is very very effective. For an idea of how little power this takes, see this video. Kimura (and its cousin, the Americana) This is generally done from side control, but it can be done from mount and possibly from the guard. Try this. Take your arm and raise it so that your upper arm is parallel to your shoulders. Raise your forearm and hand so that your elbow has a 90 degree turn. Like this __| Where the two lines are your shoulder and upper arm, then the line pointing up is your forearm. Now, keeping the upper arm and shoulder in line with each other, try to move your hand backwards. Notice how fast you run out of range of motion? If you try to move it further, you can feel your shoulder and upper arm lock up. Keep moving and it gets painful. Now imagine there's some giant sweaty dude on top of you. He has locked your arm in place and has his arm under yours to raise it from the mat, while cranking your upper arm in the direction it doesn't want to go. This has a bunch of names depending on which direction the upper arm is pointing and which martial art you come from - keylock, americana, chicken wing, figure four, ude-garami or double wristlock. There's a cool story as to how it came to be called the Kimura in BJJ. Masahiko Kimura posted:"20,000 people came to see the bout including President of Brazil. Helio was 180cm and 80 kg. When I entered the stadium, I found a coffin. I asked what it was. I was told, "This is for Kimura. Helio brought this in." It was so funny that I almost burst into laughter. As I approached the ring, raw eggs were thrown at me. The gong rang. Helio grabbed me in both lapels, and attacked me with O-soto-gari and Kouchi-gari. But they did not move me at all. Now it's my turn. I blew him away up in the air by O-uchi-gari, Harai-goshi, Uchimata, Ippon-seoi. At about 10 minute mark, I threw him by O-soto-gari. I intended to cause a concussion. But since the mat was so soft that it did not have much impact on him. While continuing to throw him, I was thinking of a finishing method. I threw him by O-soto-gari again. As soon as Helio fell, I pinned him by Kuzure-kami-shiho-gatame. I held still for 2 or 3 minutes, and then tried to smother him by belly. Helio shook his head trying to breathe. He could not take it any longer, and tried to push up my body extending his left arm. That moment, I grabbed his left wrist with my right hand, and twisted up his arm. I applied Udegarami. I thought he would surrender immediately. But Helio would not tap the mat. I had no choice but keep on twisting the arm. The stadium became quiet. The bone of his arm was coming close to the breaking point. Finally, the sound of bone breaking echoed throughout the stadium. Helio still did not surrender. His left arm was already powerless. Under this rule, I had no choice but twist the arm again. There was plenty of time left. I twisted the left arm again. Another bone was broken. Helio still did not tap. When I tried to twist the arm once more, a white towel was thrown in. I won by TKO. My hand was raised high. Japanese Brazilians rushed into the ring and tossed me up in the air. On the other hand, Helio let his left arm hang and looked very sad withstanding the pain." Arm Triangle This submission may pop up any time a fighter is mounted, and the fighter on top manages to isolate the arm of his opponent. I'm not great at explaining this stuff, so here's a diagram. The fighter on top will then rotate his body away from his opponent, this puts a crazy amount of pressure on the fighter on the bottom. It applies the same principles as the triangle (isolated arm, blood choke) but uses the arms instead. You will sometimes here it called "turning the clock" when the fighter rotates to apply pressure. Those are all the common submissions. There are those that are less common but still happen - kneebars, heel hooks, ankle locks, omoplatas, gogoplatas as well as those that are nearly unique, like the Mir lock. Most subs you see will be one of these, or a variation on one of these. Warning: While I Do Train, I am still new to BJJ and I'm sure someone may take issue with some of the things I wrote here, they may not be 100% technically perfect but they should be pretty good. Grifter fucked around with this message at 19:27 on Feb 2, 2011 |
# ? Feb 2, 2011 19:15 |
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Uh North South? Leading to hilarious subs and dick in the face.
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# ? Feb 2, 2011 19:22 |
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# ? Apr 28, 2024 04:04 |
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I always thought hooks made it easier for you to roll or move around, and to flatten your opponent's body out while attempting an RNC. A body triangle is much more restrictive and also makes it harder for your opponent to breathe.
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# ? Feb 2, 2011 19:31 |