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Teron D Amun posted:if Sinclair had stuck around the last episode would be about him going back in time aboard Babylon 4 and becoming Valen Earlier in this thread it has his original plan and its well awful. Delenn is completely different and she just uses Sinclair for his sperm and its right after his wife was mind raped.
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Feb 5, 2011 23:17
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It's not awful per se - done well it could have been good. Much prefer what we got though.
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Feb 5, 2011 23:21
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http://archive.firstones.com/musicofb5/music.html Babylon 5 has the best music.
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Feb 5, 2011 23:22
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Teron D Amun posted:if Sinclair had stuck around the last episode would be about him going back in time aboard Babylon 4 and becoming Valen I do believe this is wrong. Since we're posting fan videos, I'll post my favorite Babylon 5 video detailing Londo and G'kar's "relationship." Spoilers. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gyvuf29gUnY
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Feb 6, 2011 03:59
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Miss Fats posted:I do believe this is wrong. I knew what that was before I clicked. I'm not sure if I should be embarrassed or proud.
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Feb 6, 2011 04:10
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Yeah, Babylon 5 had a gripping story with powerful characters, a full arc and high drama. But you know what it did better than any other show on television? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jSa6Zl8fcyo Epic. Space. Combat. 
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Feb 6, 2011 04:15
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As long as we're sharing B5 Youtube vids, I present (probably for the 100th time this thread) the single greatest 3 minutes in B5 history: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DeNBJ5o-b7s "They were...Magnificent!" Edit: That scene at about 2:10...half a dozen starfuries, and a clearly VERY aging old ship, going headfirst against over two dozen Minbari destroyers. DrBouvenstein fucked around with this message at 07:23 on Feb 6, 2011 |
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Feb 6, 2011 07:20
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You can't post that and not post the scene immediately afterwards, probably my second-favorite scene in B5 history: the Earth Alliance president speaking to humanity on the eve of the Battle of the Line. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KbBRrK9Q-rw&feature=related
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Feb 6, 2011 08:07
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DrBouvenstein posted:As long as we're sharing B5 Youtube vids, I present (probably for the 100th time this thread) the single greatest 3 minutes in B5 history: What I always thought was neat was the backstory of the three other people with Londo: The two children are descendants of Ursa Jaddo (from the Episode where Londo kills his best friend in a duel and promises to look after his children, as is Centauri custom). Their nurse/nanny/babysitter/whatever is a from Lord Refa's family, whom Londo also took into his own house. Londo kept his promise. 
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Feb 6, 2011 08:29
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Londo is amazingly sympathetic despite the fact that the atrocities he directly ordered make him objectively Worse Than Hitler.
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Feb 6, 2011 09:38
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Miss Fats posted:Londo kept his promise. He's made some mistakes, but he does work hard to keep his word. And to surprise his subordinates from time to time...right, Vir?
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Feb 6, 2011 10:00
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It's weird that before starting season 2, Bruce Boxleitner = Tron in my head. Now Tron is Sheridan. The truth really is fluid.
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Feb 6, 2011 10:10
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Nathilus posted:Londo is amazingly sympathetic despite the fact that the atrocities he directly ordered make him objectively Worse Than Hitler. Are you thinking about the use of asteroids to bomb Narn? That was Lord Refa's order. 
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Feb 6, 2011 12:41
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DrBouvenstein posted:As long as we're sharing B5 Youtube vids, I present (probably for the 100th time this thread) the single greatest 3 minutes in B5 history: Thinking about those old ships though, every one of them were probably heroes of the Dilgar War. Those ships were good enough to break a race that had been stomping all over the League of Nonaligned Worlds. They probably had stories of liberating worlds of cheering aliens, battling for days against merciless Dilgar, defending Earth Alliance colonies and bases against overwhelming assaults led by the feared Warmasters of the Imperium. People back on Earth reading their censored news at the start of the war would be saying to themselves, "Hey, looks like they're sending the Hyperion to the Minbari front. That's the ship that took out the Dilgar main defence hub - those Boneheads are sure hosed, now!" The fact that Earth really had every reason to be confident going in just makes the whole thing that much more tragic.
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Feb 6, 2011 13:00
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Shyrka posted:The fact that Earth really had every reason to be confident going in just makes the whole thing that much more tragic. The confidence you speak of is what caused the conflict in the first place. But as soon as the Minbari attacked, Earth got the smug wiped off it's face in the first months of the conflict. In the beginning of the war, there were fleets vs. fleets. The Minbari suffered losses too, especially to the Nova-class, but in the end - Earth just didn't have much resistance to offer. tastychicken fucked around with this message at 13:41 on Feb 6, 2011 |
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Feb 6, 2011 13:06
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tastychicken posted:Are you thinking about the use of asteroids to bomb Narn? I was thinking more about the colonies that the shadows wipe out for him.
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Feb 6, 2011 13:18
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Miss Fats posted:In my mind, had Sinclair stuck around, Sakkai would have ended up at Z'ha'dum. I actually think that if Sinclair did stay, and assuming that we stick to the plot as it is, that Sakkai would've been a much bigger shock coming back as an agent of the Shadows. We saw her and Sinclair get back together, get remarried - so her dying and coming back would've had much more impact than the legendary wife of Sheridan we only heard about up to that point. I also imagine there'd have been a pretty heart-wrenching episode dealing with her disappearance. Garibaldi's betrayal of Sinclair would've also mattered more, since they were such good and old friends
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Feb 6, 2011 16:26
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tastychicken posted:The confidence you speak of is what caused the conflict in the first place. Well...the confidence of that one loving captain. (I guess that admiral or general on Earth who was talking to Londo was arrogant and confident, too, but it was that one captain who was all "I'll do a first contact if I have to, and shoot first ask questions never." Though, knowing what we know now, the Earth-Minbari war had to happen. Without it, no Babylon Project. So then there is no Babylon 5 to mount a resistance to the Shadows, and eventually let them and the Vorlons leave like they needed to. Not to mention that Babylon 4 would never have been able to get sent to the past to help in the earlier Shadow War. So without the Earth-Minbari war, poo poo would be a lot different. Odds are, the Shadows would have succeeded in their efforts to divide the races...I doubt that they would be working together. The two main oppositions to them would just be the Minbari (with a little help from the Vorlons,) and Earth (though odds are not working with the Minbari...though without the war who knows if we could have been good chums.) Narn would have been even more hosed, and who knows what would happen to a lot of the smaller races.
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Feb 6, 2011 19:44
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The thing is did Valen create the custom of having the guns opened as a sign of respect so the war would happen?
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Feb 6, 2011 19:48
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bobkatt013 posted:The thing is did Valen create the custom of having the guns opened as a sign of respect so the war would happen?  This thread.
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Feb 6, 2011 20:11
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Why does that say OH HOLKY gently caress! ?? Or am I seeing it wrong?
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Feb 6, 2011 20:44
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bobkatt013 posted:The thing is did Valen create the custom of having the guns opened as a sign of respect so the war would happen? God drat.
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Feb 6, 2011 21:07
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Is there any evidence either way? I certainly consider it plausible that he would have if he had to, but the tradition may have predated him or have been created by someone else. I wouldn't have put it past him to make sure the war happened, if that's the only way for him to make events turn out the way they had to.
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Feb 6, 2011 21:33
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bobkatt013 posted:The thing is did Valen create the custom of having the guns opened as a sign of respect so the war would happen?  Miss Fats posted:Why does that say OH HOLKY gently caress! ?? It was done as a mocking of the "live post" threads where people would post stuff like that in an effort to get their post in quickly.
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Feb 6, 2011 21:52
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bobkatt013 posted:The thing is did Valen create the custom of having the guns opened as a sign of respect so the war would happen?   How did I never think of that before?!
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Feb 7, 2011 03:59
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I thought I was a huge Bab5 junkie but that had never occurred to me. How much more can be explained by "Valen did it"? I'm probably going to have to re-watch the whole series with that in mind.
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Feb 7, 2011 09:49
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FrensaGeran posted:And the Vorlons even considering blowing up B5 when they know for a fact that Sinclair is Valen, among other things, doesn't make a lick of sense.
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Feb 7, 2011 10:45
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DrBouvenstein posted:Though, knowing what we know now, the Earth-Minbari war had to happen. Without it, no Babylon Project. So then there is no Babylon 5 to mount a resistance to the Shadows, and eventually let them and the Vorlons leave like they needed to. Not to mention that Babylon 4 would never have been able to get sent to the past to help in the earlier Shadow War. Pretty ironic then that the Shadows were only defeated as a result of progress achieved through war, when that was meant to be their MO in the first place.
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Feb 7, 2011 18:52
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Squalitude posted:Pretty ironic then that the Shadows were only defeated as a result of progress achieved through war, when that was meant to be their MO in the first place. Were the Babylon stations more advanced than what Earth had before the war? I always figured they were pretty low tech, just tin cans spinning in space. It's their size that makes them useful. Besides the stations were created to prevent wars, not to fight them. So really, the Shadows were defeated with tools of peace.
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Feb 7, 2011 19:09
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Well, yes, obviously, the tools of peace won the war, but that only came about as a result of war. Depends if you count the Shadows' objectives as being limited simply to technological progress through war, I guess.
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Feb 7, 2011 19:17
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General Emergency posted:Were the Babylon stations more advanced than what Earth had before the war? I always figured they were pretty low tech, just tin cans spinning in space. It's their size that makes them useful. Besides the stations were created to prevent wars, not to fight them. So really, the Shadows were defeated with tools of peace. Babylon 4 was designed as a battle station, wasn't it? The whole problem with the "did Valen make it happen" is that it's the self-fulfilling prophecy issue with time travel. In order for him to go back in time, x y and z had to happen, but if he went back in time and makes x y and z occur, then how could it have happened in the first place to let him go back in time and do it in the first place and
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Feb 7, 2011 19:19
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Palleon posted:Babylon 4 was designed as a battle station, wasn't it? No it was designed for the same purpose as Babylon 5, peace. Also in Babylon 5 its a closed loop everything happened the same way, time travel did not change anything.
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Feb 7, 2011 19:23
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General Emergency posted:Were the Babylon stations more advanced than what Earth had before the war? I always figured they were pretty low tech, just tin cans spinning in space. It's their size that makes them useful.
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Feb 7, 2011 20:23
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tastychicken posted:The confidence you speak of is what caused the conflict in the first place. I didn't think that Earth destroyed any capital ships in the war, except for Sheridan's "send a distress signal and then nuke'm straight to hell" Anti-Black Star strategy.
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Feb 7, 2011 20:31
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Habibi posted:From all mentions of it in the show, it seems to me that the idea of pulling B4 back through time wasn't to acquire a made-for-war battlestation, but rather to acquire a place where the good guys could gather and make their plans. But, at the same time, sure it was way more advanced than what Earth had before the Minbari war. B5's defenses could take on capital class ships, and B4 was larger and had more resources poured into it (whereas B5 was basically built on the scraps and leftovers of that), and we could probably safely assume that its weapon systems were pretty good. B5's defense grid was upgraded in S1 (maybe early S2) to be able to take on capital ships. Before that it had a defense grid, only one what couldn't stand up to full blown attacks from any of the other races which is what I believe B4 was equipped with since it vanished right when it went online. Maybe it was constructed with more military areas and equipment, but all in all B4 and B5 had the same defense grid that was ok, but only B5 had it's upgraded to badass.
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Feb 7, 2011 20:35
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A Winner is Jew posted:B5's defense grid was upgraded in S1 (maybe early S2) to be able to take on capital ships. Burning_Monk posted:I didn't think that Earth destroyed any capital ships in the war, except for Sheridan's "send a distress signal and then nuke'm straight to hell" Anti-Black Star strategy. Also, on the whole "Did Valen enact the opening the gun port practice to blah blah blah..." debate, I believe the 'In Valen's Name' comic miniseries ends up revealing that Sinclair/Valen specifically allowed the Minbari war to happen in order to lead to the creation of the Babylon stations.
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Feb 7, 2011 21:13
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Without Valen orchestrating the Minbari War, did they really need the Babylon stations? Remember it was made after the Minbari War because of the lack of communication between first contact aliens but oddly enough the Babylon stations didn't really address new contact as much as keep up contact with already known races. Earth was riding high after the Dilgar War and was making large in-roads with the League, in fact their stock of influence was better than the Centauri (whose empire was declining). So with no war, we have a potential peace between Earth and the Minbari. With some factions actively trying to ally with each other. Earth keeps its forces and materials that would have been lost in the war, and avoids the nasty political theater of frightened and nearly annihilated people that Clarke thrived in. Earth Force expands rather than turns isolationist in the Shadow War providing the same support they gave in the Dilgar War (materials, logistics etc.). Without the Babylon stations we have a military alliance like NATO and less political like the UN/League of Nations. And the League of Non-Aligned Worlds would be in a better position to fight the Shadows. (...and of course Babylon 4 doesn't go back in time, but it was never very clear what role it really played other than as a meeting place.) Burning_Monk fucked around with this message at 21:40 on Feb 7, 2011 |
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Feb 7, 2011 21:37
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Burning_Monk posted:Without Valen orchestrating the Minbari War, did they really need the Babylon stations? quote:Remember it was made after the Minbari War because of the lack of communication between first contact aliens That said, it does come into play in those situations, too - eg: Ivanova's infamous sex scene. quote:So with no war, we have a potential peace between Earth and the Minbari. quote:Without the Babylon stations we have a military alliance like NATO and less political like the UN/League of Nations. And the League of Non-Aligned Worlds would be in a better position to fight the Shadows. quote:(...and of course Babylon 4 doesn't go back in time, but it was never very clear what role it really played other than as a meeting place.)
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Feb 7, 2011 22:09
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Also Dukhat knew the truth about Valen so he properly got a letter telling him it was time to meet the humans.
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Feb 7, 2011 22:27
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Habibi posted:It's pretty important to have a center of command - where would the B5 resistance or ISA have been without B5 and the opportunities it provided? And IIRC the reason B4 was pulled back was specifically because all other such options had been destroyed (the Shadows having been aware of them - B4 was an unknown). Which is why the Shadows panicked when they identified Babylon 4 in 2260.
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Feb 7, 2011 22:28
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