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Mr. Carlisle posted:Just read a bit of the most recent Strikeforce thread trying to get the swing of things and I see alot of people celebrating Fedor being dealt another loss - is there a reason that he seems pretty hated here? I like Fedor personally but despise his cult of personality (see amokgonzo/treazn's post history) and the management that kept him from fighting top competition for so long.
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Feb 13, 2011 07:52
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I've never seen a dislike of fedor besides in the sas threads. he's been a fairly good likable fighter and the hate fedor meme has just been picked up by every oval office trying to get accepted here
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Feb 13, 2011 16:03
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The SAS threads would heat up about Fedor whenever he had a fight coming, was offered a fight but turned it down, or was in contract negotiations with the UFC again. The "Fedor debate" (whether or not he was overrated or deserved his ranking) has been going on in SAS threads for years. The Fedor "Agony and Ecstasy" thread (now the Overeem ducking thread) started in SAS and became the main place to complain about Fedor and his fans. Once that thread was created, much of the Fedor talk stopped appearing in the B-League and UFC threads. This is also compounded by the fact that Fedor fought so infrequently over the last few years that he just didn't come up in conversation as often as he did when the UFC was trying to sign him.
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Feb 13, 2011 16:29
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nocturama posted:I've never seen a dislike of fedor besides in the sas threads. he's been a fairly good likable fighter and the hate fedor meme has just been picked up by every oval office trying to get accepted here fedor has stubborn, shady management who bully promotions and trash talk fighters while avoiding fights. his interview style is terribly off putting. his fans, for a very long time, have been insistent that he is the best ever. most people with eyes and brains who watch his fights understood that he is fast, has power, and has a very aggressive top game. they also understood that he is small, and has lovely defense (both standing an on the ground). the reality havers would post stuff that was objectively true, then fedor fans would basically just agitate them. it feels really satisfying to watch yourself be validated as weirdos post long weepy things about how their lives are ruined.
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Feb 13, 2011 16:50
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i don't think calling him a racist every second post is objectively true though
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Feb 13, 2011 16:53
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Maybe not but it's fun.
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Feb 13, 2011 16:56
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that's what I'm getting at. its cool to hate fedor here, so anyone who likes the dude stays quiet and everybody else joins in
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Feb 13, 2011 16:59
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No, just like any fighter you can be a fan if you're not stupid about it. It just so happens that Fedor fans are usually defensive and a little stupid about their favorite racist, which makes them more annoying than the average fighter fan.
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Feb 13, 2011 17:01
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fedor and bj got me into mma, so I'm used to reading poo poo here from hating motherfuckers, and I can deal with with it, it just gets boring and tiresome reading the same poo poo over and over
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Feb 13, 2011 17:03
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^^^ It is more tiresome to see "Fedor is the best ever" for 7 years when that hasn't been true for 5 years.nocturama posted:that's what I'm getting at. its cool to hate fedor here, so anyone who likes the dude stays quiet and everybody else joins in Why would you like a racist?
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Feb 13, 2011 17:08
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nocturama posted:fedor and bj got me into mma, so I'm used to reading poo poo here from hating motherfuckers, and I can deal with with it, it just gets boring and tiresome reading the same poo poo over and over those guys are the worst
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Feb 13, 2011 17:15
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antonio mckee got me into mma.
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Feb 13, 2011 17:15
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ok I lie. it was hong man choi
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Feb 13, 2011 17:18
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really it was shogun but only because he's so dreamy
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Feb 13, 2011 17:24
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nocturama posted:really it was shogun but only because he's so dreamy Have you considered Arona
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Feb 13, 2011 17:28
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projecthalaxy posted:Have you considered Arona Shogun doesn't fishhook my heroes.
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Feb 13, 2011 17:38
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nocturama posted:i don't think calling him a racist every second post is objectively true though it's all been worth it
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Feb 13, 2011 17:41
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could we enforce a no fighter bashing rule fatherdog. thx
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Feb 13, 2011 17:41
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projecthalaxy posted:Have you considered Arona
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Feb 13, 2011 17:47
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Bubba Smith posted:could we enforce a no fighter bashing rule fatherdog. thx I don't even enforce a no fatherdog bashing rule, I'm certainly not going to spend my time as a moderator protecting professional fighters' delicate feelings
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Feb 13, 2011 18:31
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My thanks to everyone that posted an answer to my question about Fedor. I had only read bits and pieces of the story as to why people are divided on him before and obviously alot was left out about his shady management and things like that. I had read that their nonsense had caused the Fedor/UFC deal to go sour and I didn't know how much of that was Dana White being Dana White or if they really were that bad. With their apparent history of feeding him fighters Goldberg style (For those that don't know Goldberg was a pro wrestler that had an 'undefeated' streak of like 175-0 before he was finally beaten and built his streak mostly by beating jobbers (cans) to get there) I'd have to wonder if they ever really wanted him to get signed to UFC at all regardless of how much money and control were tossed at him by White. Thanks again!
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Feb 13, 2011 19:50
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nocturama posted:really it was shogun but only because he's so dreamy one of us one of us This forum is the best because we acknowledge that our love of the sport all arises from barely suppressed homoerotic passion.
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Feb 13, 2011 20:40
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If Fedor fought more (and thus likely lost more) and didn't have M-1 behind him making ridiculous demands before/after/during each fight, he'd probably be a huge fan favourite around here. He's a weird, fat, bald middleweight who hosed up legit heavyweight guys in his prime, which is basically the perfect formula for an underdog fan favourite, but his long winning streak both makes him unreasonably popular among idiots which also feeds into and makes him unreasonably subject to hatred here. If he had a few more early losses and wasn't so coveted and protected by M-1 as their meal ticket, he could have moved to a good training camp and been the scrappy, durable, undersized yet dangerous Russian crazyman that everyone loves to watch, win or lose. Watching Fedor fights really stoked my love of MMA in general, but I have also never read a single post on Sherdog, which makes me a rare and lucky type of fan.
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Feb 13, 2011 21:06
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Mr. Carlisle posted:My thanks to everyone that posted an answer to my question about Fedor. I had only read bits and pieces of the story as to why people are divided on him before and obviously alot was left out about his shady management and things like that. I had read that their nonsense had caused the Fedor/UFC deal to go sour and I didn't know how much of that was Dana White being Dana White or if they really were that bad. His management are basically Russian mafia types who are so used to operating in a post-Soviet kleptocracy that they don't remember where business ends and racketeering begins. His manager Vadim Finkelstein came right out and said "Hey, we just asked the UFC to build us a stadium in Russia and also give us a piece of the action on every future UFC event they hold in Russia; what's the big deal?"
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Feb 13, 2011 21:13
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Bubba Smith posted:could we enforce a no fighter bashing rule fatherdog. thx oh god. more than the lovely posters, the no bashing rule is what keeps me away from sherdog. they always give me the yellow card things for calling fighters gay babies. but fighters are almost exclusively gay babies.
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Feb 13, 2011 21:15
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Gorefluff posted:Watching Fedor fights really stoked my love of MMA in general, but I have also never read a single post on Sherdog, which makes me a rare and lucky type of fan. Watching a highlight video of him and hearing how well Brock Lesnar was doing in his MMA transition (this was when he was gearing up for a title bout) were the things that got me to start paying attention to MMA. Well that and Gina Carano but that's an entirely different story altogether, haha. The more I learned about it the more fascinating it started to become to me. I got back into pro wrestling around the same time and though I watch far more wrestling than I do MMA I still like reading about it and following the threads here. I've never visited Sherdog either due to the amount of backlash it seems to get from the folks here who know their stuff. Halloween Jack posted:Less people disdain Fedor the fighter than Fedor the phenomenon. He's coasted on his rep as Greatest Fighter of All Time by a) remaining undefeated and b) having beaten Nog and Cro Cop. Since then he barely maintained relevance by fighting guys who aren't relevant to any kind of heavyweight rankings, and he's been the center of a shitstorm of fights, events, and promotions that kept falling through. M-1 Global and Affliction MMA both failed because they bet the farm on him, though that's not really his fault. Alot of great information in this post, thank you. In a way it kind of seems unfortunate that Fedor relies on these shady people as much as he does. He seems like a genuinely skilled fighter that could probably have worked his way up the ladder on his own (hardcore fight fans may disagree - just saying this from a casual fan perspective I guess) but who knows if he would have had the hype surrounding him that he did before his first real loss. It's hard to say if they actually managed to build him into what he is by using their shady tactics or if he could have done it himself. The backstage nonsense of MMA to me is more interesting than the actual in-ring (octagon?) stuff in the same way that it is with pro wrestling.
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Feb 13, 2011 21:26
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fawker posted:The only one I know of is on MiddleEasy Thanks a ton for that.
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Feb 13, 2011 21:42
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Mr. Carlisle posted:
I can only speak for myself, but Fedor would've still been a good fighter with a good record if he hadn't ducked so many guys and taken easy fights. If he'd fought Ricco, Barnett, Kharitonov, and other guys like that in PRIDE when he had the chance, rematched Cro cop, fought Monson instead of ducking him and facing Lindand, or signed with the UFC, he absolutely would have picked up some more losses that brought his record more in line with the other top HWs. Fedor has attributes that make him a good fighter, and yeah, if he'd had a modern training situation he would definitely have been a better fighter. But as it is, he had serious deficiencies in his grappling his entire career that he covered up with his great reflexes, and he got dominated by guys who were strong top position jiu jitsu players a troll i posted a couple years ago: http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3046574&pagenumber=29&perpage=40#post355598928 quote:Fedor's career and status as a top heavyweight is a complete farce. All of his notable career accomplishments were shadows of Nogueira's accomplishments. Let us take a trip back in time.  dunc did a sweet one I forget when though Bundt Cake fucked around with this message at 23:31 on Feb 13, 2011 |
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Feb 13, 2011 21:46
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The thing with fedor is the hive mind has a lot of love for guys who have the fight anyone, anywhere, anytime type philosophy, guys like Wandy, Coleman, Nogueira, to an extent BJ Penn. They also seem to be in the business because they enjoy it or have to be there and they go out of their way to interact with fans, a combination of their love for the sport and their attitude has all lead to their losing at some point. With Fedor though it seems that he's disinterested in anything that doesn't advance his management or his bank balance, which is fine, objectively I'd probably do the same thing in his position but combine that attitude with his fans' bullshit and it's understandable some people just wish his fans would shut up and he'd go away. If you're the best you fight the best and you WANT to fight the best, then you don't hide behind your management who're unsavoury at best, criminal at worst and fight in smaller, less competitive companies dodging the consensus number 1 promotion in the world.
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Feb 14, 2011 02:22
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Who's the hive mind?
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Feb 14, 2011 02:23
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henkman posted:Who's the hive mind? redditt /MMA is almost entirely crying over Fedor making excuses for him, calling Dana White dumb, or a combination. It's pretty pathetic. I'm guessing Sherdog is in a similar state, but I am not wading into that cesspool. Basically: every MMA forum but here.
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Feb 14, 2011 04:07
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Xguard86 posted:redditt /MMA is almost entirely crying over Fedor making excuses for him, calling Dana White dumb, or a combination. It's pretty pathetic. I'm guessing Sherdog is in a similar state, but I am not wading into that cesspool. I got downvoted pretty hard on reddit for saying that they were gonna feed griggs to fedor, then fedor would lose to griggs.
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Feb 14, 2011 04:45
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i hang out on ebaums and been peepin that maddox guy
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Feb 14, 2011 04:47
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i'm a garv guy.
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Feb 14, 2011 04:50
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edit: wrong thread
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Feb 14, 2011 20:40
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Have any ACs here in the US flirted with the idea of using an open scoring system for MMA like K-1 uses? I find bad decisions a lot easier to take if I know what's coming.
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Feb 15, 2011 07:45
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The issue with the scoring is that the boxing system was used for a few reasons, there were judges in abundance familiar with it who could be used right away and both the rules and the judges gave the sport a much needed sense of authenticity. I agree that it's time for something to change, not necessarily the 10 point must system, or a change in the rules, but perhaps better education for the judges, courses or something or the blooding of judges from other MMA rule systems into the new subset. There's too much of a problem right now with the judges interpretations of aggression, octagon control and generally which fighter is dominating.
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Feb 15, 2011 08:32
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By "open scoring" I just mean scores being shown at the end of rounds instead of the end of the fight. It seems like such a minor improvement, but for some reason I find it very satisfying not to have to guess where the fight stands at the end of round two or whatever. Plus we might see better performances if fighters know for a fact that they're behind and that they need to go for a dominant showing as the fight wears on.
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Feb 15, 2011 08:36
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On the other hand dudes who know they are leading 20-18 might play it safe.
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Feb 15, 2011 08:46
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That happens in every other sport, and you can argue it already happens in MMA.
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Feb 15, 2011 09:07
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