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ZShakespeare
Jul 20, 2003

The devil can cite Scripture for his purpose!

dissss posted:

The whole point of WP7s relatively strict hardware requirements is that any WP7 phone should provide the 'quintessential Windows Phone experience'.

Anyway it'll be interesting to see what happens to the track - six months from now and we'll know if this move has paid off

Really?

http://www.engadget.com/2011/02/11/nokia-will-be-able-to-customize-everything-in-windows-phone-7/

It looks like Nokia will be able to do whatever they want with it.

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whatever7
Jul 26, 2001

by LITERALLY AN ADMIN

ZShakespeare posted:

Really?

http://www.engadget.com/2011/02/11/nokia-will-be-able-to-customize-everything-in-windows-phone-7/

It looks like Nokia will be able to do whatever they want with it.

If MS really let them do it do you think HTC and Samsung will continue to make phones for WP7?

dissss
Nov 10, 2007

I'm a terrible forums poster with terrible opinions.

Here's a cat fucking a squid.

ZShakespeare posted:

Really?

http://www.engadget.com/2011/02/11/nokia-will-be-able-to-customize-everything-in-windows-phone-7/

It looks like Nokia will be able to do whatever they want with it.

They say they can but won't.

Certainly sounds like they're all talk and will be just another hardware OEM

ZShakespeare
Jul 20, 2003

The devil can cite Scripture for his purpose!

whatever7 posted:

If MS really let them do it do you think HTC and Samsung will continue to make phones for WP7?

HTC, Samsung, and LG will continue making WP7 phones as long as they think they can make money doing so. Nokia still needs to establish a beachhead in North America, and until then those three are the only real source of Windows phones in this market. I couldn't see them giving up on the platform until then.

dissss posted:

They say they can but won't.

Certainly sounds like they're all talk and will be just another hardware OEM

If they are smart they'll take advantage of the leeway Microsoft is giving them on this. Nokia needs a killer feature that makes people want to buy their phone over the other WP7 devices out there, otherwise you are right and they'll just be a second rate OEM.

whatever7
Jul 26, 2001

by LITERALLY AN ADMIN

ZShakespeare posted:

HTC, Samsung, and LG will continue making WP7 phones as long as they think they can make money doing so. Nokia still needs to establish a beachhead in North America, and until then those three are the only real source of Windows phones in this market. I couldn't see them giving up on the platform until then.

Or they could make lovely rear end WP7 phones and send them to die.

Having phones in the US carriers lineups has nothing to do with the quality of the phones but everything to do with carrier relationship. Having a WP7 phone is by no means a guarantee you get to get in the carriers stores.

quote:

If they are smart they'll take advantage of the leeway Microsoft is giving them on this. Nokia needs a killer feature that makes people want to buy their phone over the other WP7 devices out there, otherwise you are right and they'll just be a second rate OEM.
What leeway you are speaking of?

JSW2
Apr 26, 2008
Not on the current topic, but as a way of giving back to the N8 users who have helped me so far I present you with this: http://discussions.europe.nokia.com/t5/Software-Updates/Official-Nokia-N8-PR1-1-Software-Release-Schedule/td-p/923407

They sorta published a release schedule. And promised to finish rolling out updates next week.

ZShakespeare
Jul 20, 2003

The devil can cite Scripture for his purpose!

whatever7 posted:

Or they could make lovely rear end WP7 phones and send them to die.

Having phones in the US carriers lineups has nothing to do with the quality of the phones but everything to do with carrier relationship. Having a WP7 phone is by no means a guarantee you get to get in the carriers stores.

You asked if HTC et al. would stop making WP7 phones because of this and I answered with a definitive no, because there would be no reason for them to stop.

All I'm saying is what I think Nokia should do to succeed. I'm not saying what they will do. I'm not a fortune teller, or time traveler. If I was, I sure as hell wouldn't be on this thing.

whatever7 posted:

What leeway you are speaking of?

From the top of this very page that you quoted earlier. No other manufacturer gets this deal. This is why we don't have sense on HTC windows phones.

ZShakespeare posted:

Really?

http://www.engadget.com/2011/02/11/nokia-will-be-able-to-customize-everything-in-windows-phone-7/

It looks like Nokia will be able to do whatever they want with it.

big shtick energy
May 27, 2004


LiquidRain posted:

Welp, time to start looking at Android phones again, build quality or not.

Are there even any Android phones with metal cases and gorilla-glass screens? Apparently HTC still sucks at cameras too.

Kobayashi
Aug 13, 2004

by Nyc_Tattoo
Yeah, Elop himself said Nokia is free to do whatever they want, although they probably won't. I figure this is going to play out like Motorola's initial embrace of Android, in that Nokia will produce a "Droid-like" reference device that (hopefully?) puts Windows Phone on the map, followed by whatever Nokia comes up with to fill the "Motoblur-esque" skinning game.

LiquidRain
May 21, 2007

Watch the madness!

JSW2 posted:

Not on the current topic, but as a way of giving back to the N8 users who have helped me so far I present you with this: http://discussions.europe.nokia.com/t5/Software-Updates/Official-Nokia-N8-PR1-1-Software-Release-Schedule/td-p/923407

They sorta published a release schedule. And promised to finish rolling out updates next week.
Hey thanks for that link, on topic or not it's useful. While I will definitely be going Android again, I'll still be stuck with my N8 for at least a couple months before I can justify the cost and save up for one, and it's nice to know when I'll have the update. (this has nothing to do with the fact that I need 1.1 to restore Ovi Store on my phone to make it saleable :ssh:)

DuckConference posted:

Are there even any Android phones with metal cases and gorilla-glass screens? Apparently HTC still sucks at cameras too.
Nope. Nothing comes close to the N8's build quality in Androidland. Or WP7 land. The only phone that matches the N8 build quality is the iPhone 4. Android phones are all plastic and select few currently use Gorilla. As far as I know, only some of Galaxy S lines do, and the rest of that line of phone is built of incredibly light plastic. (the Nexus S does not have gorilla glass though, it's an exception)

bull3964
Nov 18, 2000

DO YOU HEAR THAT? THAT'S THE SOUND OF ME PATTING MYSELF ON THE BACK.


LiquidRain posted:

Android phones are all plastic and select few currently use Gorilla.

My metal Droid would beg to differ.

The main body of the Nexus One is also aluminum.

LiquidRain
May 21, 2007

Watch the madness!

I guess then I haven't reviewed all the Moto Droid models. I tend not to look in Moto's direction since they lock their bootloaders hard.

The Nexus One does feel alright in the hand, I'll agree, but has a really lovely camera, and no Gorilla glass if that's a real concern. (an ardent Android friend with one also constantly complains about the wonky touchscreen) If I had to pick two Android devices for myself it'd be either the One or the G2/Desire Z, but neither are really as tantalizing as they could be. None of the upcoming Tegra 2 devices really excite me, they're not going in the direction I want to see handsets go. Regardless, *this* is totally off-topic, so I posit that if someone wants Android handset discussion - there's a very lively, thriving community over in another thread. :)

vvv the Desire Z and One are based on the same platform, so yes that makes sense.

LiquidRain fucked around with this message at 06:17 on Feb 12, 2011

bull3964
Nov 18, 2000

DO YOU HEAR THAT? THAT'S THE SOUND OF ME PATTING MYSELF ON THE BACK.


The Desire Z also has an aluminum body shell. No gorilla glass though.

Nut Bunnies
May 24, 2005

Fun Shoe
Yeah uh...most of HTC's phones from now on will be aluminum and the first Gorilla Glass phone I can even think of is the Droid so that's a laughable post.

Also I've dropped my sans-Gorilla Glass Incredible on its face many times and it has escaped unscathed.

Nut Bunnies fucked around with this message at 06:47 on Feb 12, 2011

ZShakespeare
Jul 20, 2003

The devil can cite Scripture for his purpose!
I came from a Nokia N900 to a Desire Z with a brief stopover in Samsungland. It's fantastic.

dissss
Nov 10, 2007

I'm a terrible forums poster with terrible opinions.

Here's a cat fucking a squid.
Gorilla Glass is just a brand name - the glass on all HTCs devices is of pretty comparable quality. Yes you can scratch it (sand is particularly bad) but the same is true of the Droid etc

Nairbo
Jan 2, 2005

ZShakespeare posted:

I came from a Nokia N900 to a Desire Z with a brief stopover in Samsungland. It's fantastic.

Are you able to get even a day with the Desire Z? I've considered ditching my iPhone 4 for one but everyone I speak to complains nonstop about the battery.

ZShakespeare
Jul 20, 2003

The devil can cite Scripture for his purpose!
I've been running the CM7 nightlies, and for the most part I just leave wifi, gps and automatic brightness on, and it makes it through the day easily. Some days when I'm out more I have to manage that stuff though. It's about the same as the Galaxy S and light years beyond the N900. The biggest factor I noticed is that you REALLY need to turn off wifi when you aren't using it or the gps, and turn on airplane mode when you are in an area with no signal (one of SFU's classrooms concrete bunkers).

If you really want to get a lot of life out of an android you could always try juice defender. Also at one point I had a tasker profile that would disable mobile data when the device was asleep and turn it on every 10 minutes to check for emails etc and the thing would go for a couple of days. Mugen power makes an 1800mah battery that fits in with the stock cover too.

All that being said, I wish it was better. The phone could really have benefited from at 1500mah battery.

Web Jew.0
May 13, 2009

Godinster posted:

Are you able to get even a day with the Desire Z? I've considered ditching my iPhone 4 for one but everyone I speak to complains nonstop about the battery.

I get a full day browsing / tethering / texting / calling with my G2, about the same as my iPhone 4, maybe a little better since i started using CM7.

The aluminum battery door also makes swapping batteries really convenient for when i stay out late or use the phone really extensively, and it boots really fast too.

Jasper Tin Neck
Nov 14, 2008


"Scientifically proven, rich and creamy."

Space Racist posted:

Isn't Nokia basically the national industry in Finland? I can see why it'd get so political over such a drastic shift.
Not as much as it used to, but it still accounts for about 1% of our GDP. I expect to see a lot of office space for rent in the years to come. (I live about 2km from the Nokia HQ, and most IT companies around here are somehow tied to Nokia. Pretty much all investments made in developing software based on Qt went down the drain overnight.)

Space Racist posted:

Shares are down 13% though? Ouch. I thought there'd be more positivity surrounding a new direction for Nokia, seeing as how the old one was working out for them.
The market has over the last two years been unduly harsh towards Nokia. A buyout is a serious concern at this point. Nokia has about 12.75 billion € in cash. Its current stock value is 26 billion €, so the real price of the company is down to 13,25 billion €. If things don't start looking up soon, Microsoft will have to buy Nokia before someone else does.

LiquidRain
May 21, 2007

Watch the madness!

http://www.allaboutsymbian.com/news/item/12590_Reports_of_Symbians_death_have.php

Take a look at the slide, 2nd image. Does anyone else think this will even happen?

*continues waiting for 1.1*

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

LiquidRain fucked around with this message at 04:34 on Feb 14, 2011

ZShakespeare
Jul 20, 2003

The devil can cite Scripture for his purpose!

LiquidRain posted:

http://www.allaboutsymbian.com/news/item/12590_Reports_of_Symbians_death_have.php

Take a look at the slide, 2nd image. Does anyone else think this will even happen?

*continues waiting for 1.1*

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

Well who would buy a Symbian phone after last week's announcement if they think they'll never get an update?

fake edit: The same people who thought they were going to get updates with any Nokia phone.

Vagrancy
Oct 15, 2005
Master of procrastination
Meego Tablet OS preview

At least now I know why Nokia jumped.

ZShakespeare
Jul 20, 2003

The devil can cite Scripture for his purpose!
The Meego tablet interface was impressive a year ago when it debuted. It looks like it hasn't changed at all since then, and looks bad compared to Honeycomb.

tk
Dec 10, 2003

Nap Ghost

Vagrancy posted:

Meego Tablet OS preview

At least now I know why Nokia jumped.

I hope the release version has that cursor the whole time too.

Dr Tran
Dec 17, 2002

HE'S GOT A PH.D. IN
KICKING YOUR ASS!

LiquidRain posted:


*continues waiting for 1.1*

Mine is updating

LiquidRain
May 21, 2007

Watch the madness!

Mine updated this morning. I can't feel a difference at all, in anything, even the mail app.

Septimus
Aug 30, 2003
Wasabi? Why not!
I noticed that wifi is much more stable and holds a connection. Before the update the connection would hang frequently.

LiquidRain
May 21, 2007

Watch the madness!

I caved. I bought a G2.

It doesn't have the camera but good lord it's so relieving. Just using the phone is such a joy coming from Symbian. The app market works, and it works so fast, and and and *drones on for pages*

I'm keeping the N8 for an upcoming trip (for the camera) but will simply sell it after that. I'm debating if I'll even go that far with it and I'll just live without taking movies (or taking the half-assed movies the G2 has) while I'm travelling.

ZShakespeare
Jul 20, 2003

The devil can cite Scripture for his purpose!
I'm waiting for the day that there is a really good Android camera phone.

Civil
Apr 21, 2003

Do you see this? This means "Have a nice day".

ZShakespeare posted:

I'm waiting for the day that there is a really good Android camera phone.

Nokia kind of set the bar high, optics seemed to be the primary focus (heh) of a lot of their phones, and while a lot of android phones have decent cameras, none have really set out to differentiate themselves by having a terrific camera.

If I were to guess, I'd say SE might come out with a cybershot android phone, but they seem to be going in other directions too.

Septimus
Aug 30, 2003
Wasabi? Why not!

ZShakespeare posted:

I'm waiting for the day that there is a really good Android camera phone.

Yeah I'm in the same boat. Surely Zeiss does not have some sort of exclusivity agreement with Nokia?

The camera on the HTC Desire Z is decent especially without flash.

bull3964
Nov 18, 2000

DO YOU HEAR THAT? THAT'S THE SOUND OF ME PATTING MYSELF ON THE BACK.


I think the biggest thing other phones have been missing is the xenon flash. Full daylight pics have been more than passable for awhile now (especially after some touchup), but low light situations suck and led flashes just don't get the job done.

I just can't figure out why we don't seen more xenon flash phone cameras around. Do you have to make the phone thicker to accommodate them?

LiquidRain
May 21, 2007

Watch the madness!

bull3964 posted:

I just can't figure out why we don't seen more xenon flash phone cameras around. Do you have to make the phone thicker to accommodate them?
It's not only the bulb that needs to exist, I believe a capacitor for it as well in the camera. It's considerable bulk. Xenon bulbs also require a relatively long and very high power draw. It puts a lot of stress on the battery and the internal wiring needs to be completely different to accommodate the xenon. Although it's far more minor (especially at the size of the xenon in the N8), you also have to worry about things like heat generation, since xenons throw a lot of heat.

The G2 I bought (used, good deal, cheaper than my N8) may not have nearly the same quality camera, but I don't use the camera as often as I use the web browser and Gmail. (and now that I have access to a plethora of apps, I'm sure other things will pop up as well)

HPL
Aug 28, 2002

Worst case scenario.

bull3964 posted:

I think the biggest thing other phones have been missing is the xenon flash. Full daylight pics have been more than passable for awhile now (especially after some touchup), but low light situations suck and led flashes just don't get the job done.

I just can't figure out why we don't seen more xenon flash phone cameras around. Do you have to make the phone thicker to accommodate them?

Small sensor technology is slowly moving forward. We've had the first wave of backlit sensors come through and now there are a few other technologies coming around so if the sensor manufacturers can improve low light performance, having a xenon flash becomes less important because you can take a photo without a flash or you can take a photo with a lower-powered flash and get similar results because of increased sensor sensitivity.

I agree though that having a xenon flash is pretty awesome and it's one feature I miss from my N82 days.

Gerudo Rivera
Jan 22, 2005

I hope those rumors about the next iphone having a physical keyboard and a better camera are true, because although I will never buy one of those things, it might finally prod the rest of the industry into making more smart-featurephones so I can finally buy the convergence device i've always dreamed of, just in time for the Rapture

big mean giraffe
Dec 13, 2003

Eat Shit and Die

Lipstick Apathy
After using an on-screen keyboard exclusively for the past year or so, I could never go back to a fat, bulky physical keyboard phone.

ZShakespeare
Jul 20, 2003

The devil can cite Scripture for his purpose!

big mean giraffe posted:

After using an on-screen keyboard exclusively for the past year or so, I could never go back to a fat, bulky physical keyboard phone.

I know people who profess the opposite to the point where it seems to be a largely religious argument between the two. Between my old Galaxy S and my Desire Z, I learned that I can swing both ways.

LiquidRain
May 21, 2007

Watch the madness!

After 1 day of fiddling with the G2/Desire Z, I switch between whatever works for me best at the moment. A quick SMS with all English words, I use Swype. Longer messages or anything involving abbreviations/addresses/etc, I use the keyboard.

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dissss
Nov 10, 2007

I'm a terrible forums poster with terrible opinions.

Here's a cat fucking a squid.

ZShakespeare posted:

I know people who profess the opposite to the point where it seems to be a largely religious argument between the two. Between my old Galaxy S and my Desire Z, I learned that I can swing both ways.

We'll never see one on an iPhone though. A better camera on the other hand is almost a given.

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