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I've been driving my 08 V6 a bit hard lately on crappy NY roads and I've been noticing a slight "wavy" sensation on the rear end of the car. I've checked my tires and I seem to have plenty of thread wear left and I'm not seeing weird wear patterns. Is this just a characteristic of the car (side-effect of the live axle maybe) or is it something I should look into?
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Feb 20, 2011 02:05
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Get your rear alignment checked, could either be too much toe out or too much negative camber.
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Feb 20, 2011 02:22
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whiskas posted:Get your rear alignment checked, could either be too much toe out or too much negative camber. Thanks for the reply! I'm planning to take the car in for the 25k mile maintenance soon. Do I need to specifically ask for this or will the shop do it themselves?
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Feb 20, 2011 02:31
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shodanjr_gr posted:Is this just a characteristic of the car (side-effect of the live axle maybe) or is it something I should look into? When you go over a bump with one rear wheel, or both? If it feels like the rear end wiggles a bit when it goes over a bump on one side, the rear axle could be taking a while to settle out.
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Feb 20, 2011 02:49
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kimbo305 posted:When you go over a bump with one rear wheel, or both? If it feels like the rear end wiggles a bit when it goes over a bump on one side, the rear axle could be taking a while to settle out. I've definitely noticed it when going over bumps with one wheel but I always figured that was just the way the suspension is supposed to feel. But I also get the slight feeling of wavy-ness sometimes on normal roads without seriously uneven tarmac.
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Feb 20, 2011 02:57
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The rear does that on these cars, it's the panhard rod swinging out. About the only way to ever get rid of that feeling is to install a Watts Link. Better dampers work too, look into Koni SRTs or sports (although sports are currently on backorder because for some reason they take forever to be made.) Look I know the SRA works, but if Ford is planning a new Mustang platform they'll probably head towards IRS. That's all my original comment said. As for the "if it ain't broke" argument, that's the same attitude that got Detroit in trouble. It's also the same attitude that ensured Harley never appealed to anyone who wasn't born 60 years ago. Ford is becoming known for fixing things that aren't broken. Ecoboost and SYNC are two great examples. Journos aren't the only people who care about this stuff. I'm a Mustang owner and I love my car, but technology has become a major selling point for Ford vehicles.
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Feb 20, 2011 03:00
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Killbot posted:The rear does that on these cars, it's the panhard rod swinging out. About the only way to ever get rid of that feeling is to install a Watts Link. Better dampers work too, look into Koni SRTs or sports (although sports are currently on backorder because for some reason they take forever to be made.) Is it worth it looking into a suspension kit with shocks/springs/rod?
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Feb 20, 2011 03:11
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Definitely dampers. Springs aren't as necessary. The Watts Link is the priciest option but it gets rid of that "sideways" feeling over bumps because it allows the rear axle to move up and down as opposed to swinging in a slight arc like a panhard rod does. Still, dampers are probably the biggest improvement I made to my Mustang, and they do help to control the rear a bit better.
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Feb 20, 2011 03:18
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Killbot posted:Definitely dampers. Springs aren't as necessary. The Watts Link is the priciest option but it gets rid of that "sideways" feeling over bumps because it allows the rear axle to move up and down as opposed to swinging in a slight arc like a panhard rod does. Still, dampers are probably the biggest improvement I made to my Mustang, and they do help to control the rear a bit better. Any good resellers for suspension stuff for mustangs? I only know of American Muscle and I don't think they carry the Koni parts.
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Feb 20, 2011 03:30
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I've had good experiences with Sam Strano over at stranoparts. His site has Konis on sale. I see a package with Koni STR.Ts and some springs for $573. If you're not about to take your car to the racetrack then STR.Ts are fine, they're like the adjustable Sports turned full-soft. I haven't tried the Tokicos or the Ford Racing ones but from what I hear they don't ride as well over bumps.
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Feb 20, 2011 03:37
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whiskas posted:Get your rear alignment checked, could either be too much toe out or too much negative camber. Horrible troll is horrible. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Feb 20, 2011 03:45
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RE: IRS VS solid axle. Big fuckin deal. I don't see anyone bitching about the camaro and its "lol pushrods" engine. Regardless of its a 500 year old design or not, GM is still keeping it competetive in both power and fuel economy. I don't think many people are complaining that it needs more power (though it always does) and it returns respectable fuel economy. The Mustang with its oxcart rear suspension is a proven technology and still handles great so why the gently caress not?
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Feb 20, 2011 03:53
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Killbot posted:I've had good experiences with Sam Strano over at stranoparts. His site has Konis on sale. I see a package with Koni STR.Ts and some springs for $573. If you're not about to take your car to the racetrack then STR.Ts are fine, they're like the adjustable Sports turned full-soft. Thanks very much for the info. Yeah, I care about daily ride quality the most right now. I do plan to do some HPDE at some point during the spring, but my motivation is about learning what the car can do when pushed to the edge in a safe environment, so I guess those shocks will be fine!
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Feb 20, 2011 03:57
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Skyssx posted:Horrible troll is horrible. A troll is when you say something to someone just to get a reaction out of them. What actually happened is technically called "lying" and with malicious intent.
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Feb 20, 2011 04:00
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A.o.D. posted:A troll is when you say something to someone just to get a reaction out of them. What actually happened is technically called "lying" and with malicious intent. How so? Edumacate me please!
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Feb 20, 2011 04:11
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scapulataf posted:RE: IRS VS solid axle. People don't bitch about it because the LS engines offer huge power at low weight. Even people who raced Ford cars shoved LS engines into them. The Ford Modulars were quite the opposite until the Coyote. Companies that stick to what works never get ahead. It's not a viable strategy unless you want to engineer and sell mediocre vehicles. Sure, they may be great today, but in 4 years? 10? If Ford is pushing technology in every other aspect of its cars, including engineering, I'd be surprised if they didn't go to IRS. Or those potential Mustang buyers will instead buy a Genesis Coupe. (People under 40 don't shop for "pony cars" these days, they shop for "sports cars" and they have and will cross-shop these two vehicles.) About the lie: It's an SRA. You can't adjust rear camber without a torch, a large set of pliers, and some heavy gloves.
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Feb 20, 2011 04:28
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Any of you guys have a Mustang as your only car in the northeast? How do you deal with snow?
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Feb 20, 2011 05:20
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Put snow tires on it and slow the gently caress down
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Feb 20, 2011 05:24
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Killbot posted:It's not a viable strategy unless you want to engineer and sell mediocre vehicles. Sure, they may be great today, but in 4 years? 10? If Ford is pushing technology in every other aspect of its cars, including engineering, I'd be surprised if they didn't go to IRS. I see electric motors being the big thing in car evolution over the next 10 years. Until the standard for RWD sports cars is one motor powering each rear wheel (where IRS would naturally be preferable), the Mustang could probably safely evolve in other ways and keep the solid axle. I might see Ford offering IRS as standard and giving people a no-cost option of solid axle if they wanted. That way, in theory, people who want to drag their Mustangs can still get the car they want.
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Feb 20, 2011 06:40
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Killbot posted:People don't bitch about it because the LS engines offer huge power at low weight. Even people who raced Ford cars shoved LS engines into them. The Ford Modulars were quite the opposite until the Coyote. The Genesis? Really? Do you suppose that if you're after performance that the genesis coupe compares favorably to any Mustang at its inflated price point?
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Feb 20, 2011 06:59
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shodanjr_gr posted:How so? Edumacate me please! By its very nature, a live axle cannot have adjustable camber and toe. The axle shaft running from the center section of the differential out to the hub where the wheel bolts is a single rigid piece of metal; it is perpendicular to both the rear wheel and the pinion shaft on the differential. Essentially a live axle can only attempt to have zero toe and zero camber. Reality is it will have very small amounts of both due to manufacturing tolerances, but the only way to 'adjust' it is to bend the axle housing itself, and attempting anything other than zero toe / camber usually results in massive wear to bearings.
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Feb 20, 2011 08:10
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Edit: Sorry, was mistaken about the G coupe. The V6 Mustang went faster around C&D's Lightning Lap than the G did. Still, I've heard coworkers shopping for cars talk about the two. Hell, someone cross-shopped the new 5.0 with the M3. He chose the M3, maybe for the four doors. If I'm coming across as DEATH TO SRA well I'm sorry, that's not the message I was trying to get across. I was simply saying that the refresh might as well do without it. The present car is great, even off the dragstrip. The Boss will be even better. But what about afterwards? Still, the current car can be set up to do very well on the street and at the track. My car (with aftermarket dampers, stock springs) rides better than the G coupe. I was in one with coffee in the cupholder and a rough patch of road shot some up onto the ceiling. Doesn't happen in my car, live axle and all. Killbot fucked around with this message at 08:34 on Feb 20, 2011 |
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Feb 20, 2011 08:21
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Killbot posted:Still, the current car can be set up to do very well on the street and at the track. My car (with aftermarket dampers, stock springs) rides better than the G coupe. I was in one with coffee in the cupholder and a rough patch of road shot some up onto the ceiling. Doesn't happen in my car, live axle and all. Ok, so for a real life ride/handling scenario, a modern car did just fine. I'm not sure how refined cars are going to need to get at a given price point. The next step in ride quality will have to involve knocking down the price of dynamically adjustable dampers and possibly adding dynamically adjustable spring rate, along with the sensing technology to make use of those. If the Ford can keep the Mustang GT competitive with the M3, as the current gens ones do, then they'll probably be happy to evolve a design using a solid axle.
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Feb 20, 2011 08:36
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Well keep in mind that my car's ride quality was greatly improved by the addition of $600 dampers, and even that didn't get rid of the rear end "shimmy" entirely, although they definitely made my 2008 less of a handful on the track. Doing that would take the addition of a $600+ Watts Link. I might go with the Steeda one, since it's relatively lightweight and doesn't use loud rod bearings. But that one costs over $1k.
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Feb 20, 2011 08:49
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Yeah but the 2010 GT and new 5.0 are marked improvements in handling out of the box. If anything can be deduced from that, it's that automakers can always get a little more out of the same basic ingredients.
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Feb 20, 2011 09:39
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Thanks for the explanation on the live-axle camber thing. It totally made sense when I actually read what the camber/caster/toe angles are. I'm gonna look into how much the STR.T kit + installation will run me and probably go for it soon. Also today I had the unpleasant experience of driving the car at 30-40 MPH crosswind. It starts getting kind of unsettling once you hit 70 MPH on the highway.
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Feb 20, 2011 09:40
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Yeah, I think the 2010/2011 got the forward and rear control arms from the GT500, a longer rear upper control arm, and more rigidity. It also got better tires. Tell us how your HPDE goes! I hope to be out on the track again in March when things warm up. And don't be afraid to ask Sam for recommendations, he primarily does autocross but there are things you can apply to open track as well. Killbot fucked around with this message at 09:58 on Feb 20, 2011 |
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Feb 20, 2011 09:51
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Will do, I'm thinking of hitting up the May event in NJ Motorsport Park and follow it up with a couple of days in AC  .
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Feb 20, 2011 10:08
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What'd interest me more is if ford went from a panhard to a watt's linkage for its rear axle, or at least made it a factory option.
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Feb 20, 2011 18:37
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mcmagic posted:Any of you guys have a Mustang as your only car in the northeast? How do you deal with snow? You put snow tires and rims in your budget and you take your time. That's all you can really do.
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Feb 20, 2011 21:05
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frozenphil posted:Here's what I'm saying regarding IRS in the Mustang in a nutshell. The average Mustang buyer is buying the v6. They want a sporty looking car that looks cool and is reliable, but above all, is cheap. They are never going to push their car hard enough on the street to find the limits of the solid axle. Adding an IRS to appease people who would never buy a Mustang anyway just raises the price for the majority of people who would buy a Mustang; likely turning them off of the car and toward the competition. It just doesn't make sense. This is how Ford made money 10 years ago, or didn't. At some point the selling poo poo to retards model doesn't work, ask Chrysler. Good cars all the way around is how Toyota and Honda sold tons of cars including sports cars. The Mustang GT went up $1,500 in 2011 with no updates other than the power train, there's no reason it can't go up $2,500 for the next refresh in 2014 and accomodate an IRS. I respect your opinion a lot Phil but the IRS is the biggest improvement that Ford can make for the every day customer. The new Camaro should be proof enough that muscle guys will embrace an IRS when it works well enough. I think this generation of Mustang is the swan song of solid rears. They're great performers on the track but it's time to move on.
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Feb 20, 2011 23:04
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kronix posted:...the IRS is the biggest improvement that Ford can make for the every day customer. So how exactly is this? They're durable and cheap and work fine for most driving, so how's an IRS gonna change anything for the "every day customer"? I don't mean to white knight, I've never driven a RWD car with IRS. I'm honestly wondering what it will change in everyday driving. Seems like from posts in this thread that their current implementation has some shimmy, but changing around their members should clear that right up. That particular thing is due to their particular implementation, not due to having a solid rear in general.
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Feb 20, 2011 23:10
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A properly set up IRS will display good handling with good ride comfort. Bad ones do one or the other, or ones with a gigantic roll bar. An SRA also tends to do one or the other, plus it's a lot of unsprung weight to control. There's also the lack of caster/camber adjustability. By the time you optimize the SRA to both handle well and provide comfort in daily driving, you're well on your way to IRS level cost. I remember some Ford engineer saying the reason why they didn't put a Watts Link in was because the current setup only had several millimeters of deflection. Even that is enough to dance the rear end just a bit. I hear the difference between a Mustang with the regular panhard and a Mustang with an aftermarket Watts Link is pretty phenomenal.
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Feb 21, 2011 00:32
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shodanjr_gr posted:Any good resellers for suspension stuff for mustangs? I only know of American Muscle and I don't think they carry the Koni parts. Maximum Motorsports has everything you need. Look under just about any racing Mustang that takes corners and you'll find their stuff there.
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Feb 21, 2011 00:48
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kronix posted:You put snow tires and rims in your budget and you take your time. That's all you can really do. I'm switching from a 4x4 to a mustang but my 4x4 is only worth like 2500. I'm thinking of keeping both for the snow but that seems wasteful haha.
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Feb 21, 2011 06:07
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I just bought an 02 Mustang GT that has a Kenne Bell 2.1L 6PSI non-intercooled supercharger in it and I have a few questions for anyone who might know about these superchargers. Keep in mind I know almost nothing about cars and even less about superchargers. First of all, the Kenne Bell boost gauge that was installed does not seem to be reading correctly. At full boost it is reading 9psi which is definitely wrong. What is likely to be wrong here and how can I check it? Secondly, I'd like to buy the intercooler kit from Kenne Bell and upgrade to 9PSI, but how much work am I looking at here? I've been told you have to remove the entire supercharger, but is that true? Kenne Bell has incredibly detailed instructions for the installation of the supercharger, but would I literally have to go backwards through the installation all the way in order to install the intercooler kit? I wouldn't mind doing this if the intercooler kit has detailed instructions for the whole process but I'm pretty sure it wouldn't be anything different than what it is in the standard installation manual they give you. AngryGuy fucked around with this message at 07:57 on Feb 21, 2011 |
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Feb 21, 2011 07:54
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frozenphil posted:Maximum Motorsports has everything you need. Look under just about any racing Mustang that takes corners and you'll find their stuff there. I came across MM yesterday at some point. I think that Strano's parts has a better deal on a shocks+springs combo for the STR.Ts though. How much is too much to pay for labor on this kind of work?
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Feb 21, 2011 08:06
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MM does a lot of road racing with their Mustangs. They're a reputable shop. Unfortunately, their 2005+ selection is not as elaborate as theirs for older Mustangs. No idea about labor costs, I did my swap with a friend and a spring compressor. Fortunately we didn't lose any teeth that day.
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Feb 21, 2011 09:49
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AngryGuy posted:First of all, the Kenne Bell boost gauge that was installed does not seem to be reading correctly. At full boost it is reading 9psi which is definitely wrong. What is likely to be wrong here and how can I check it? How do you know it's wrong? quote:Secondly, I'd like to buy the intercooler kit from Kenne Bell and upgrade to 9PSI, but how much work am I looking at here? I've been told you have to remove the entire supercharger, but is that true? Yep. The intercooler sits underneath the supercharger. quote:Kenne Bell has incredibly detailed instructions for the installation of the supercharger, but would I literally have to go backwards through the installation all the way in order to install the intercooler kit? I wouldn't mind doing this if the intercooler kit has detailed instructions for the whole process but I'm pretty sure it wouldn't be anything different than what it is in the standard installation manual they give you. If you don't know anything about working on cars, I'd say you probably shouldn't make your first learning project installing an air to water intercooler on an aftermarket supercharged modular engine. It's not too terribly difficult, but it's not something I'd recommend for someone with no wrenching experience.
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Feb 21, 2011 15:12
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frozenphil posted:Maximum Motorsports has everything you need. Look under just about any racing Mustang that takes corners and you'll find their stuff there. Quoting for truth. If you do end up getting a solid axle Mustang. For less than 5 grand you can turn your car into a corner carving demon that can take on any Euro hi-performance car on their home turf. You don't even have to buy all the parts at once, which makes doing suspension mods on a mustang affordable for all budget levels. On a stock mustang, just buying full subframe connectors & springs, is a night and day difference. buying and installing some more parts a little bit at a time only makes the car performance better. Also you should note, that a stock mustang with a super charger, even though its more powerful, will lose on the twisties with a less powerful mustang with kick rear end suspension upgrades. Below is the list of the common parts you can buy. Every part below you can have for only a couple hundred dollars each. K-member (with 2-point brace) Front Control Arms Torque-arm Panhard Bar Full-length Subframe Connectors Coil-over Conversion Kits, Front and Rear Coil-over springs Caster/Camber Plates Aluminum Rear Lower Control Arms struts shocks adjustable Rear Swaybar Aluminum Steering rack Bushings Solid Steering Shaft Bumpsteer Kit Strut Tower Brace Front Swaybar Relocation Kit Front Swaybar Bushings Front Swaybar End Links
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Feb 21, 2011 16:08
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