Middle East Thread of Despair: More Broken Than Syria

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Cartouche: Jan 4, 2011

Chief Savage Man posted:

Started a pool with a few friends in my political science class on how Qaddafi dies. If he kills himself Hitler-style, I get forty bucks but if he dies any other way, I lose ten. Either way, there's no way this dude lives out the year. I don't see him entering the 'Oh poo poo, my people are going to kill me.' mode that most dictators do when their people go after them. He's definitely going down the Hitlerbunker lunatic path.

I hope he dies of heart failure while taking a crap on his golden toilet.

# ? Feb 23, 2011 23:39

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# ? Apr 25, 2024 20:04

Patter Song: Mar 26, 2010; Hereby it is manifest that during the time men live without a common power to keep them all in awe, they are in that condition which is called war; and such a war as is of every man against every man.; Fun Shoe

Chief Savage Man posted:

Started a pool with a few friends in my political science class on how Qaddafi dies. If he kills himself Hitler-style, I get forty bucks but if he dies any other way, I lose ten. Either way, there's no way this dude lives out the year. I don't see him entering the 'Oh poo poo, my people are going to kill me.' mode that most dictators do when their people go after them. He's definitely going down the Hitlerbunker lunatic path.

Honestly, Qaddafi seems like the sort that wants to be martyred. I think he wants to be killed by the new Libyan government so he can die as some sort of bizarre testament to his "ideology."

# ? Feb 23, 2011 23:42

ukle: Nov 28, 2005

Jut posted:

How the gently caress do protesters manage to beat TANKS?!

The Libyans only have really old tanks (well and a few T72's which are not as easy a push over) so relativity minor weaponry could be enough to take them out (IED's, RPG's).

# ? Feb 23, 2011 23:43

GnatKingCoal: Dec 17, 2008; You, Sir, are UNAmerican!

ukle posted:

The Libyans only have really old tanks (well and a few T72's which are not as easy a push over) so relativity minor weaponry could be enough to take them out (IED's, RPG's).

You can cook the drivers, gunners and THE AMMO in a tank if you coat it in oil and gasoline and set it aflame (Mr. Molotov, TO THE RESCUE!)

Roll those bitches down any street in Tripoli - the people can drop glass bottles on them from the 2nd story and run.

Edit: Too bad muslim culture isn't big on wine-drinking. Those gallon jugs would be perfect.

Edit2: We really need an efficacy study of the Molotov cocktail components: Oil or Soap? Gasoline or Alcohol?

GnatKingCoal fucked around with this message at 23:55 on Feb 23, 2011

# ? Feb 23, 2011 23:52

Lustful Man Hugs: Jul 18, 2010

Also, deploying tanks alone vs infantry has been a recipe for disaster ever since their conception. A single shmuck with a firebomb is a serious threat to an M1A1 Abrams, nevermind an ill-maintained T-55 crewed by poorly trained mercenaries.

# ? Feb 23, 2011 23:56

Vladimir Putin: Mar 17, 2007; by R. Guyovich

Cartouche posted:

I hope he dies of heart failure while taking a crap on his golden toilet.

Dude that would be the best way to die. On a pile of your own gold and poo poo.

# ? Feb 23, 2011 23:56

Vladimir Putin: Mar 17, 2007; by R. Guyovich

ChaosSamusX posted:

Also, deploying tanks alone vs infantry has been a recipe for disaster ever since their conception. A single shmuck with a firebomb is a serious threat to an M1A1 Abrams, nevermind an ill-maintained T-55 crewed by poorly trained mercenaries.

Yes, tanks are worthless in an urban environment without infantry support. It would be impossible for a tank to detect people sneaking up behind it, for example to place explosives in the exhaust/engine compartment.

Out in the open however, in mobilized warfare, however is a different story.

# ? Feb 23, 2011 23:57

Zappatista: Oct 28, 2008; WILL AMOUNT TO NOTHING IN LIFE.

I can see Gadaffi ending up in some sort of a comatose state and having a long, drawn-out death just like Franco or Ariel Sharon. Who I'm not quite sure about are his sons. They're educated playboys whose lives seem to define nepotism...not brutal sociopaths like Saddam's sons Uday and Qusay.

Zappatista fucked around with this message at 00:04 on Feb 24, 2011

# ? Feb 23, 2011 23:59

The Brown Menace: Dec 24, 2010; Now comes in all colors.

Vladimir Putin posted:

Yes, tanks are worthless in an urban environment without infantry support. It would be impossible for a tank to detect people sneaking up behind it, for example to place explosives in the exhaust/engine compartment.

Out in the open however, in mobilized warfare, however is a different story.

Isn't Libya pretty much a shitton of "HERE THERE BE DRAGONS" with a few heavily urbanized cities along the coast?

# ? Feb 24, 2011 00:00

Seizure Meat: Jul 23, 2008; by Smythe

Spiky Ooze posted:

I would assume mercs are really not that well trained in vehicles like jets and tanks, if at all, so every real soldier defection is really putting this closer to the end. If the defector army pushes through fast, it could be over in days.

The mercenaries might be sub par idiots working for peanuts, but they might also be combat vets of numerous African civil wars familiar with all kinds of heavy weaponry.

# ? Feb 24, 2011 00:02

Apology: Nov 12, 2005; by Y Kant Ozma Post

The protest is heating up in Morocco:

quote:

@mariamekea
Mariam
Moroccan single mother burns herself in protest http://bit.ly/glIytA #Feb20 #Morocco

And here's a quote from the article:

quote:

Moroccan single mother burns herself in protest
Wed Feb 23, 2011 12:54pm EST
RABAT (Reuters) - A young Moroccan set herself on fire after being excluded from a social housing scheme because she was an unmarried mother, a local government official said on Wednesday.

Morocco introduced a new family law in 2004 that has won it praise from Western countries for giving women more rights than many Arab countries.

But single mothers continue to struggle in the absence of a social safety net as authorities in the Muslim country do not recognize children born out of the wedlock.

Mother-of-two Fadwa Laroui, 25, used flammable liquid to set herself on fire in front of the town hall of Souk Sebt, in central Morocco, late Monday, the town's mayor Boubker Ouchen told Reuters.

Two Souk Sebt residents said Laroui died Wednesday at a Casablanca hospital, but Ouchen could not confirm that. Medical sources at Casablanca's Ibn Rochd hospital, where she was being treated, could not be reached for comment.

http://ca.reuters.com/article/topNews/idCATRE71M4ZF20110223

I find this greatly offensive :argh:

Children are children, who cares who their father is, they need help, you assholes!

quote:

@mariamekea
Mariam
Moroccan woman sets herself on fire, unknown if this is the same woman as the article I tweeted earlier. http://bit.ly/ieyXoK #Feb20

And here's the video. It's not that gruesome, compared to some of the other stuff we've seen in the past few days, but still, woman on fire :supaburn:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KXWwe67wSag :nms:

And it would have worked too, if it hadn't been for those meddling Persians:

quote:

Mediterranean heating up
Wednesday, February 23, 2011
SAMİ KOHEN
As all eyes turn to Libya, a country on the edge of a civil war, two Iranian warships passed through the Suez Canal for the Mediterranean. This might not seem interesting, but it gets more meaningful considering the chaotic picture in the region.

Without a doubt Iran did not send a frigate and a supply ship to the Mediterranean via the Suez Canal for nothing. The Iranian ships are heading to the Mediterranean via the Suez Canal for the first time since the establishment of the Islamic Republic of Iran in 1979.

As for its political translation:

1. The Iranian ships passing the Suez Canal immediately after the overthrown of the Hosni Mubarak regime in Egypt is not a coincidence. The Iranian administration tried to �test� and force the current military regime in Egypt. The first difficult task of the military administration led by Marshal Tantawi was to respond to the Iranian move. Despite the pressures of the United States and Israel, the new Egyptian government deemed it appropriate to allow the Iranian ships in the Suez Canal.

2. A first ever show-off of Iranian warships in the Mediterranean sent the U.S. and Israel a message: �I am here in this water, too.� Israel reads this as a provocation as the U.S. feels discomfort. In the end, the Mediterranean is open to Iran now.

3. Iranian warships, according to official statements, will do a military exercise in the Mediterranean and head to the port of Latakia, Syria. This is also an indication of strategic cooperation between Iran and Syria. Iranian intentions are to have a naval base in Syria and even in Lebanon in the future, according to some news reports.

In short, Iran gains several advantages through a military presence in the Mediterranean. The situation, however, creates a danger of disturbing Israel and the West in particular and paving the way for possible tensions similar to the one experienced with the Soviet fleet during the Cold War period.

Iran seems quite pleased with the popular upheavals and regime changes in the Arab world.

In fact, Iranian leaders read the developments as a success of the Iranian Islamic Revolution.

As Israel is shocked by the happenings in Egypt, Iran is equally pleased with the situation. Tehran has seen Mubarak as an ally of the U.S. and Israel and therefore as a rival to Iran all along. In the new period, there is a possibility that Egypt might go under a policy change and the Muslim Brotherhood might become influential in Egyptian politics in time.

But the most pleasing development for the Mahmoud Ahmadinejad regime is the uprising in Bahrain. Shiites, who make up 70 percent of the population in the country, are rebelling against the Sunni royal family and ruling classes. Bahrain has strategic cooperation with the U.S. and it is unclear how the upheaval will end there. The incidents, however, show that the Shiite movement in Bahrain, backed by Iran, is gaining more strength. The movement is likely to spread to other Gulf countries in similar situations as well.

http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/n.php?n=the-mediterranean-getting-hot-2011-02-23&utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

~~There's more analysis in this article other than the snippet I've posted. I'm planning to give it a thorough read in a minute.~~ Actually I only left out about a paragraph, nothing to see here, move along

He's shaking in his khufs I'm sure:

quote:

RIYADH - Saudi King Abdullah returned home on Wednesday after a three-month medical absence and unveiled benefits for Saudis worth some $37 billion in an apparent bid to insulate the world's top oil exporter from an Arab protest wave.

http://www.forexyard.com/en/news/Re..._medium=twitter

News trickles out of Uganda very slowly, so this is actually new, even though it happened several days ago:

quote:

CPJ calls on Uganda to protect journalist shot by soldiers
New York, February 23, 2011--The Committee to Protect Journalists condemns the shooting of a freelance journalist by Ugandan soldiers on February 18, the day of parliamentary and presidential elections. Soldiers shot and injured freelance journalist Julius Odeke near Bugusege, eastern Uganda.

Forces driving armored vehicles stopped four cars belonging to incumbent MP Nathan Mafabi, dragged Odeke out of the car, and shot him in the side, he told CPJ. He had been covering election violence between supporters of Mafabi and the ruling party candidate, Beatrice Wabudeya, he said. The freelance reporter had taken photographs of soldiers attacking Mafabi and his supporters in the hotly contested Buradiri West constituency before soldiers stopped the cars. Odeke lost his camera and cell phone in the attack.

Odeke, who contributes to the Chinese newswire Xinhua and a new Ugandan tabloid, The Razor, was quickly rushed to Mbale Referral Hospital for treatment. After soldiers sought him out at the hospital, Odeke moved to another medical center for security, Stephen Ouma, general-secretary of the Ugandan Journalists Union told CPJ. The union coordinated assistance for Odeke, who is now recovering, Ouma said.

http://cpj.org/2011/02/cpj-calls-on-uganda-to-protect-journalist-shot-by.php

The fact that he had to change hospitals in order to evade Ugandan soldiers really freaks me out for some reason. We're at our most vulnerable when we're hospitalized, I guess.

And a chat with a Libyan political activist:

quote:

Tripoli on Lockdown: Inside Gaddafi's Reign of Terror
Bruce Crumley

In spite of its rapproachement with the West over the past few years, Libya has always remained the North Korea of the Arab world, its regime as paranoid and closed and prone to unpredictable violence as the Kim dynasty of Pyongyang. And now that the reign of Muammar Gaddafi is imploding, all the totalitarian horrors in his armory � both weapons and propaganda � are being hauled out for open warfare. What was always a kingdom built on fear has become even more so as state-sponsored terrorism rules the streets of Tripoli. Few dare to speak openly, but TIME reached a Libyan in Gaddafi's capital by phone who, for a few minutes, was willing to speak his mind.

"Samir," 27, a medical student in Tripoli, says he opposes Gaddafi but that, like many others, he does not dare to venture out into the streets for fear of shoot-on-sight orders, which he believes have been issued to the dictator's militias. "No one is going out today � the only people outside are Gaddafi supporters, who are celebrating. Actually, I have no idea what they're celebrating," he says, using the deadpan black humor he says he developed as a political activist.

"Most people of Tripoli are locked away in their homes," Samir continues. "People are scared. There's a shortage of food, but what can you do? Militias have been sent out to roam the streets in cars, and they'll shoot anyone they see walking around. This is what Gaddafi is doing to try and stay in power: kill as many people as he needs to. It's going to be a massacre. It'll either happen in the streets, or they'll come to people's homes. It's going to be a massacre if the international community doesn't step in and do something about it."

He replies with no small dose of sarcasm when asked if the militia activity � or people's reaction to it after they had taken to the streets earlier in the week � was in response to Gaddafi's speech on Tuesday night. "I don't know," he says. "I didn't watch the speech, and I don't know if many Libyans did. We've had to listen to this man for 40 years now, and we're sick of it. We know what he's going to say. Or used to. Now he's gotten so insane � so clearly psychotic � that it's gotten more difficult to predict exactly what he'll say. But we know what he'll do, because this is a bloody, murderous regime. In fact, you can't really call it a regime. There is no state, there's no real government. It's more like a mafia family that runs everything using the gangs and armed squads it has put together to enforce its will and attack people who disagree. In fact, I'm putting myself in danger just talking to you, but I have to do it. People have to know what's going on, and just how horrible this man and his allies are. The rest of the world has to know the kind of hell life is for Libyans every day."

Samir says that even as the protest movement has grown, there has been increasing "anger at the international community for not doing anything but making speeches. We're getting very angry about that. The worst is Europe � especially Italy � which is now more worried about the threat of mass immigration than it is over seeing even greater numbers of Libyans massacred by Gaddafi in the coming days. That kind of reaction is exactly what Gaddafi wants when he threatens to just let people leave. Why is Europe reacting that way? Why doesn't it back the poor, oppressed Libyan people instead?"

Samir is equally emphatic about the warnings now rising � including in a major editorial on Wednesday in France's right-wing Le Figaro � about the popular uprisings in the Arab world being exploited by Islamists who will step in and take over. "I heard this being expressed just last night on the BBC � it's total bulls___!" Samir says. "I'm absolutely secular, as are most Libyans. We've got too many problems to deal with to waste time on religion. How can people imagine societies that are rising up to overthrow bloody dictators would turn around and let oppressive Islamists take over? The idea is more freedom, more liberty, more democracy, not swapping one kind of repression for another."

Samir makes it clear that he has stayed on the phone longer than is safe but takes one more question: What does he think will happen now? From the outside, the protesters in Tripoli appeared to be on their heels, leaving the streets to the militias and Gaddafi supporters. But the east of the country seemed to be lost by authorities, and Gaddafi's hold on power in the capital was weakening as more members of the ruling elite threw in the towel � as the Libyan Interior Minister did on Wednesday.

"Yes, the east is now entirely free," says Samir, "and Gaddafi won't get it back, so this is very, very good. Now Gaddafi is focusing on Tripoli and surrounding areas. He's using his security forces, militias, his private gangs. There are rumors he's now bringing in more mercenaries from sub-Saharan Africa via Algeria. He's going to try to keep Tripoli � or crush everyone trying. I don't know how it will turn out. When you look to the east, there's hope. But here, right now, there's mostly fear."

http://www.time.com/time/specials/packages/article/0,28804,2045328_2045333_2053371,00.html?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

It's interesting because I noticed the self-same fear-mongering and cries of "Islamicist Takeover!!1!" in newspapers from around the world today, not just on Faux News. One article was speculating that the protests would lead to the end of women's rights in Tunisia because the Islamicists would swoop in and take over, forcing everyone wear burkas even though both secular and religious parties have been working on equal rights for women in Tunisia for the past decade. I won't post them; they're crap.

Apology fucked around with this message at 00:13 on Feb 24, 2011

# ? Feb 24, 2011 00:02

Vladimir Putin: Mar 17, 2007; by R. Guyovich

The Brown Menace posted:

Isn't Libya pretty much a shitton of "HERE THERE BE DRAGONS" with a few heavily urbanized cities along the coast?

I guess so, but there aren't going to be huge open field tank battles like in the days of Rommel. If they are going to be blowing up protesters, my guess is that the tanks will be in a highly urban environment.

# ? Feb 24, 2011 00:03

The Brown Menace: Dec 24, 2010; Now comes in all colors.

Vladimir Putin posted:

I guess so, but there aren't going to be huge open field tank battles like in the days of Rommel. If they are going to be blowing up protesters, my guess is that the tanks will be in a highly urban environment.

Yeah that's what I was getting at, if they want to put down the revolution they'll have to go downtown, and a tank will be a slightly worse choice to do that than a Ford Pinto.

# ? Feb 24, 2011 00:06

csm141: Jul 19, 2010; i care, i'm listening, i can help you without giving any advice; Pillbug

VikingSkull posted:

The mercenaries might be sub par idiots working for peanuts, but they might also be combat vets of numerous African civil wars familiar with all kinds of heavy weaponry.

My guess is that they bolt as soon as it becomes clear that they are going to get killed if they stick around. When Qaddafi makes his last stand, it will be with whoever remains fanatically loyal to his cause. The mercs will probably take the money and run. No amount of money can make a man march into certain death.

# ? Feb 24, 2011 00:07

DevNull: Apr 4, 2007; And sometimes is seen a strange spot in the sky
A human being that was given to fly

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/feb/23/inside-libya-banghazi-jubilation

Great article from the Guardian from the first foreign journalist that made it into Benghazi. From the article, it sounds like the protesters are getting a lot of weapons from defecting military.

# ? Feb 24, 2011 00:28

Gravitom: Jul 27, 2001

Not that this is incredibly newsworthy but I live near the UN and there are a couple hundred Libyans protesting that the UN and US should provide assistance. I'm heading back out to take some photos now.

# ? Feb 24, 2011 00:29

Belgurdo: Aug 17, 2003; I LOVE THE BIG SCREEN SO FRESH AND SO CLEAN

All of this is so sudden...why all of these protests and uprisings now and not 10, 20, 50 years ago? What has changed over there?

# ? Feb 24, 2011 00:31

Paradox Personified: Mar 15, 2010; SoroScrew

Gravitom posted:

Not that this is incredibly newsworthy but I live near the UN and there are a couple hundred Libyans protesting that the UN and US should provide assistance. I'm heading back out to take some photos now.

Please take a large amount of video, I'll upload it at the big media hubs (LL et al) if you wish.
I hope that was sarcasm, yes it is newsworthy!

Belgurdo posted:

All of this is so sudden...why all of these protests and uprisings now and not 10, 20, 50 years ago? What has changed over there?

I want to guess, a combination of: youths and changing minds, at a tipping point of wages and oppression, all while technology easing the actions of anti-government rallies and protesters? Large amounts of populaces feel this way and also mostly agree with each other that it is secular in movement- they want progress, not to trade one oppressor for another (extremist religion of the area)...And so much more, of course... Am I close? I miss cultural anthropology, drat.

Paradox Personified fucked around with this message at 00:35 on Feb 24, 2011

# ? Feb 24, 2011 00:32

GonadTheBallbarian: Jul 23, 2007

Belgurdo posted:

All of this is so sudden...why all of these protests and uprisings now and not 10, 20, 50 years ago? What has changed over there?

For some, wikileaks. For others, a point of no return. For even others still: "hey, our neighbors did it, maybe we can beat our tyrant too!"

I always smile when I think about these countries getting a new government FOR the people soon :unsmith:

\/\/ Forgot about grain/food prices. Thanks for the catch.

GonadTheBallbarian fucked around with this message at 00:38 on Feb 24, 2011

# ? Feb 24, 2011 00:34

Zappatista: Oct 28, 2008; WILL AMOUNT TO NOTHING IN LIFE.

Rising food prices and a large number of educated young people who can't find jobs alongside years' worth of anger at brutally repressive regimes, just to name two quick reasons.

When Gadaffi falls/flees, who's in place to take over the country? Does Libya have an ElBaradei or Wael Ghonim waiting in the wings around whom people can rally or else say 'so-and-so seems like an acceptable person to head a transitional government..." The only person whom I've heard talk of is one of the members of the former royal family.

From what I'm seeing now, it looks like the one thing Gadaffi's been good at is preventing a military coup. Forgive me for sounding ignorant, but my impression of the Libyan situation based on what I've read recently is that it's a very potentially fractitious nation where tribal allegiances mean an incredible lot and that Gadaffi had managed to play a similar role to what Tito did in the Balkans in holding it together for so long.

Zappatista fucked around with this message at 00:46 on Feb 24, 2011

# ? Feb 24, 2011 00:37

Xandu: Feb 19, 2006; It's hard to be humble when you're as great as I am.

Belgurdo posted:

All of this is so sudden...why all of these protests and uprisings now and not 10, 20, 50 years ago? What has changed over there?

This will sound too simplistic, but it's the sense I've gotten following these protests. People in Egypt and Tunisia, et al have always hated their leaders and felt oppressed, the countries were "stable," but always teetering on the edge. Watching Tunisia succeed gave people hope and made them realize that they too could kick out their leaders and change their society.

# ? Feb 24, 2011 00:38

csm141: Jul 19, 2010; i care, i'm listening, i can help you without giving any advice; Pillbug

Belgurdo posted:

All of this is so sudden...why all of these protests and uprisings now and not 10, 20, 50 years ago? What has changed over there?

Domino theory proved correct, but fifty years later and in a different region of the world.

# ? Feb 24, 2011 00:38

Gravitom: Jul 27, 2001

Paradox Personified posted:

Please take a large amount of video, I'll upload it at the big media hubs (LL et al) if you wish.
I hope that was sarcasm, yes it is newsworthy!

Well I meant compared to people tweeting about their neighborhoods being bombed and mercenaries on the streets, a news report that people are chanting outside my cushy Midtown Manhattan apartment doesn't seem as epic

# ? Feb 24, 2011 00:39

redscare: Aug 14, 2003

Zappatista posted:

Rising food prices and a large number of educated young people who can't find jobs alongside years' worth of anger at brutally repressive regimes, just to name two quick reasons.

When Gadaffi falls/flees, who's in place to take over the country? Does Libya have an ElBaradei or Wael Ghonim waiting in the wings to guide the process?

I imagine there will be some kind of tribal council or something, who knows. They have to build it from the ground up since the government right now is Gaddafi and some cronies. There's no parliament, there won't be anything resembling a cabinet, I don't think there's a judiciary.

redscare fucked around with this message at 00:50 on Feb 24, 2011

# ? Feb 24, 2011 00:42

Earwicker: Jan 6, 2003

Xandu posted:

This will sound too simplistic, but it's the sense I've gotten following these protests. People in Egypt and Tunisia, et al have always hated their leaders and felt oppressed, the countries were "stable," but always teetering on the edge. Watching Tunisia succeed gave people hope and made them realize that they too could kick out their leaders and change their society.

Partly this and I think technology also plays a role. Not that I think any of this stuff is a "Facebook revolution" the way some in the media have called it, but for most of recent history the only mass media in these countries was state controlled media, so people had much less ability to communicate and more importantly much less awareness of what was going on in other countries.

The internet - and more specifically, mobile access to it - has largely taken away the state's monopoly on communication, and that has helped these things dramatically (it's also why we are less likely to see this sort of thing happen in a place like North Korea where the state still has that monopoly).

# ? Feb 24, 2011 00:43

redscare: Aug 14, 2003

Belgurdo posted:

All of this is so sudden...why all of these protests and uprisings now and not 10, 20, 50 years ago? What has changed over there?

Rising food prices are a huge part of it. Hunger riots have toppled many a government throughout history. The rest is a combination of factors that differ from place to place. The Tunisians basically said "gently caress it, we're going all-in, we've got nothing to lose" and when they succeeded, everyone else got ideas. Egypt really pushed it all into overdrive, showing that if the protesters can unite and persist, there's nothing the government can do except acquiesce.

I doubt anyone expected Libya to blow up - let alone to do so as fast as it did - however. I felt that if Libya did uprise, Gaddafi would do exactly what he did - go with the kill-everyone aproach - but apparently I over-estimated the loyalty of his forces and under-estimated the willingness of Libyans to martyr themselves for their cause.

# ? Feb 24, 2011 00:49

Spiky Ooze: Oct 27, 2005; Bernie Sanders is a friend to my planet (pictured)

click the shit outta^

VikingSkull posted:

The mercenaries might be sub par idiots working for peanuts, but they might also be combat vets of numerous African civil wars familiar with all kinds of heavy weaponry.

Well it depends who these people are. The fact that they had to be flown in really doesn't bode well for their organized training to defend Libya. It seems like they're just there to shoot innocent people and hope the fear level crushes the revolution.

# ? Feb 24, 2011 00:51

redscare: Aug 14, 2003

Spiky Ooze posted:

Well it depends who these people are. The fact that they had to be flown in really doesn't bode well for their organized training to defend Libya. It seems like they're just there to shoot innocent people and hope the fear level crushes the revolution.

That's exactly what they've been hired for. I doubt they're particularly well-organized or well-trained unless there's more Eastern European mercs there than we think. West/Central Africa isn't exactly known having well-trained soldiers.

# ? Feb 24, 2011 00:53

csm141: Jul 19, 2010; i care, i'm listening, i can help you without giving any advice; Pillbug

redscare posted:

That's exactly what they've been hired for. I doubt they're particularly well-organized or well-trained unless there's more Eastern European mercs there than we think. West/Central Africa isn't exactly known having well-trained soldiers.

This talk of mercs makes me want to play Far Cry 2 again.

Anyway, a great column from my favorite strategy writer Thomas P.M. Barnett on why Qaddafi must go. http://www.esquire.com/blogs/politics/libya-protests-2011-5274021

# ? Feb 24, 2011 01:02

Yaos: Feb 22, 2003; She is a cat of significant gravy.

What's going on with Iran? I can't tell the difference between fear-mongering, lies, and reality. Some people think that because Iran sent some ships through the Suez canal that they have won, although I think that has more to do with that small revolution that just took place rather than Egypt wanting to be allies with another dictator so soon. As we've seen in the current revolutions, dictators have a tough time seeing anything, so what Iran says really can't be trusted either.

# ? Feb 24, 2011 01:05

Jamsque: May 31, 2009

Yaos posted:

What's going on with Iran? I can't tell the difference between fear-mongering, lies, and reality. Some people think that because Iran sent some ships through the Suez canal that they have won, although I think that has more to do with that small revolution that just took place rather than Egypt wanting to be allies with another dictator so soon. As we've seen in the current revolutions, dictators have a tough time seeing anything, so what Iran says really can't be trusted either.

Ahmadinejad always does the thing that he thinks will piss off the USA the most without making them mad enough to actually bomb him. It's provocation, with an eye on possible future naval bases on Syria's coast, which would be used for more provocation.

# ? Feb 24, 2011 01:09

The Brown Menace: Dec 24, 2010; Now comes in all colors.

Yaos posted:

What's going on with Iran? I can't tell the difference between fear-mongering, lies, and reality. Some people think that because Iran sent some ships through the Suez canal that they have won, although I think that has more to do with that small revolution that just took place rather than Egypt wanting to be allies with another dictator so soon. As we've seen in the current revolutions, dictators have a tough time seeing anything, so what Iran says really can't be trusted either.

Facing a goddamn hell of a revolution herself, Iran (or rather the rotten theocrats) need publicity stunts like that to maintain their facade.

# ? Feb 24, 2011 01:13

Finlander: Feb 21, 2011

Al Jazeera Blog posted:

2:17am: Abdul Rahman Shalgum, head of the Libyan mission to the UN, has said the situation in his country is very dangerous. Addressing Libyan leader as brother, he said Libya is bigger than all of us.

The Libyan diplomat said:

"The nation is bigger, stronger and greater than us all. Our nation is in danger. The brother leader [Gaddafi] can take a decision that saves and salvages the country and stops the bloodshed. Libya now has entered a very dangerous tunnel."

Bigger, stronger and greater than us all? Brother leader? Taking a decision that saves lives and salvages the country?
Christ, what an rear end in a top hat.

# ? Feb 24, 2011 01:38

ChubbyEmoBabe: Sep 6, 2003; -=|NMN|=-

Earwicker posted:

Partly this and I think technology also plays a role. Not that I think any of this stuff is a "Facebook revolution" the way some in the media have called it, but for most of recent history the only mass media in these countries was state controlled media, so people had much less ability to communicate and more importantly much less awareness of what was going on in other countries.

The internet - and more specifically, mobile access to it - has largely taken away the state's monopoly on communication, and that has helped these things dramatically (it's also why we are less likely to see this sort of thing happen in a place like North Korea where the state still has that monopoly).

Makes me proud to be one of the people installing VSATs in peoples back yards in africa to side step the absurd telco monopolies and their 56kbps shared for the country.

It's not facebook or whatever else it is the simple ability to communicate with a reasonable voice and get information cheaply and freely. China has foreseen this problem and done a lot better job at (attempting to) stall the inevitable.

# ? Feb 24, 2011 01:40

SqueakyDuck: Apr 5, 2009; Banao!~

GnatKingCoal posted:

Edit2: We really need an efficacy study of the Molotov cocktail components: Oil or Soap? Gasoline or Alcohol?

Napalm.

# ? Feb 24, 2011 01:43

Danyull: Jan 16, 2011

Sorry if this has been brought up already, but an Egyptian father named his daughter Facebook to honor the Egyptian Uprising.

# ? Feb 24, 2011 01:43

Finlander: Feb 21, 2011

Danyull posted:

Sorry if this has been brought up already, but an Egyptian father named his daughter Facebook to honor the Egyptian Uprising.

That's not a very good idea. That little lady is going to get bullied to no end. Oh, well, that's just too bad, I suppose.

Speaking of the egyptian uprising, where in the world did Mubarak scuttle off to, in the end? Is he still at that beach resort or whatever, in a coma?

# ? Feb 24, 2011 01:48

GnatKingCoal: Dec 17, 2008; You, Sir, are UNAmerican!

^^^ You know the kids in school are gonna call her FACECOCK or FACEBOOT. ^^^

SqueakyDuck posted:

Napalm.

Trademarked by Dow Chemical.

The best home-substitute is Styrofoam[TM] (ANOTHER GREAT Dow Chemical Product!) dissolved in gasoline.

"Nice slick spreading agent, same great incendiary effect!"

# ? Feb 24, 2011 01:52

Banano: Jan 10, 2005; Soiled Meat

Brown Moses posted:

quote:
This is some gruesome footage posted on YouTube purporting to be of the bodies of soldiers found bound and shot in the Fadhil camp in Benghazi. Contains graphic images.

The headline reads:

جنود تم إعدامهم في بعد رفضهم الأوامر بقتل مدنيين ليبيا

["Soldiers executed after refusing orders to kill civilians in Libya"]

Featured video link. Fucks sake YT :smith:

# ? Feb 24, 2011 01:55

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# ? Apr 25, 2024 20:04

Jack Napier: Aug 5, 2010; by Ozma

Banano posted:

Featured video link. Fucks sake YT

How does "Slow Smoked Pulled Pork Barbecue Recipe by the BBQ Pit Boys" get to be featured with that video?

# ? Feb 24, 2011 02:08

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > Middle East Thread of Despair: More Broken Than Syria

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