BMW Thread: this is the bmw thread. we drive blue cars

BloodBag · # ? Mar 12, 2011 14:42

Cobalt60 posted:

-- Reliability
-- Minimal upkeep time to run reliably

You can't be serious.
I mean, my '02 E46 does pretty well for reliability, but only because I'm religious with the maintenance.

Adbot · # ? May 30, 2024 03:05

kimbo305 · # ? Mar 12, 2011 22:19

Over the last few pages, I think someone asked what the pains of a E39 540i were, and I couldn't find it. e: When that discussion came up, everyone recommended an I-6 model instead, which I at the time agreed with. But of course, like slidebite experience, temptations always come up.

This 2001 showed up locally:
http://boston.craigslist.org/gbs/cto/2259399457.html

From the carfax the seller provided, I can tell a local reputable dealer has maintained it, down to the rich/meticulous owner details, like wiper blade replacement. What are the major issues with this model again? Is the motor more suspect than the E39 M5?

It has 205k(!) on it. But assuming I coul get proof of regular maintenance work on the car from the dealer, maybe as part of an inspection, is that a reasonable price?

tesko.pk · tesko.pk May 7, 2009

kimbo305 posted:

It has 205k(!) on it. But assuming I coul get proof of regular maintenance work on the car from the dealer, maybe as part of an inspection, is that a reasonable price?

If they have a thick binder full of maintenance documentation and receipts, and they'll let it go for closer to $5000, then sounds good to me. I6 in there would definitely be cheaper in several ways, but I understand wanting a V8 in a 5er, especially in an E39. Definitely find out when the clutch was last replaced, same with brakes and suspension bushings.

runwiled · runwiled Feb 21, 2011

Just randomly notice today that my glove box lamp isn't working, so I popped it out and it looks like something's broken off or missing from it. Does anyone have a good image of what it's supposed to look like to I can see if I can fix it? My searches have been fruitless.

e: and I'm a retard and should probably mention it's a 1999 e36

Beach Bum · # ? Mar 13, 2011 05:38

runwiled posted:

Just randomly notice today that my glove box lamp isn't working, so I popped it out and it looks like something's broken off or missing from it. Does anyone have a good image of what it's supposed to look like to I can see if I can fix it? My searches have been fruitless.

e: and I'm a retard and should probably mention it's a 1999 e36

http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts.do?model=BG13&mospid=47485&btnr=63_0441&hg=63&fg=30

04 BULB 12V 5W 1 63217160805 $1.58

runwiled · runwiled Feb 21, 2011

Beach Bum posted:

http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts.do?model=BG13&mospid=47485&btnr=63_0441&hg=63&fg=30

04 BULB 12V 5W 1 63217160805 $1.58

I actually meant if someone could show me what the inside of the amber plastic unit looked like, since I know what the part is, just not what it's supposed to look like intact. It's ok though, using a crappy, blow-out ebay picture I think I know what's happened -- the plastic peg that holds the spring in place has snapped off very near to the base and gluing it back isn't going to work since it has to be held under tension. Guess that's more money to spend down the road.

awesome-express · # ? Mar 13, 2011 21:29

The cigarette lighter on my 1997 Euro E39 seems to have broken off and is now rotated inwards. I can't pry it out into its normal position and removing the center console doesn't help since the plastic bit doesn't extend that far. How should I go about fixing it?

Here's a screenshot. Not my E39, I'll get a pic later, but you get the idea.

VibrioCholera · # ? Mar 14, 2011 02:00

awesome-express posted:

The cigarette lighter on my 1997 Euro E39 seems to have broken off and is now rotated inwards. I can't pry it out into its normal position and removing the center console doesn't help since the plastic bit doesn't extend that far. How should I go about fixing it?

Here's a screenshot. Not my E39, I'll get a pic later, but you get the idea.

That is literally an awesome as hell interior. I know it isn't yours but I never realized anyone uses that thigh extender thing on the seat. Thought its sole purpose was to collect renegade crumbs from food that I don't eat in my car... somehow.

Crustashio · # ? Mar 14, 2011 03:12

First off - check your battery drain once in awhile, I opened the trunk on my e30 that to find a massive puddle of water and a shitload of condensation in the trunk. After I managed to pry the tray out it looked like what was supposed to be the drain tube was flattened entirely.

Second, does anyone recognize if this is the later model fuel pump? I have a eurospec 325iX to that has a bunch of wierd differences to the american ones. Realoem isn't really any help on whether or not I have the in tank pump or the external one - depending on which diagram I check it lists the single later model pump, or the older external pump + presupply pump.

Crustashio fucked around with this message at 03:39 on Mar 14, 2011

BeastOfExmoor · # ? Mar 14, 2011 03:18

ozziegt posted:

BMWs fail horribly when it comes to this requirement: "Minimal upkeep time to run reliably"

If that is important for you, look to the japanese.

Taco Box posted:

You can't be serious.
I mean, my '02 E46 does pretty well for reliability, but only because I'm religious with the maintenance.

Could someone please elaborate on these points a little bit? I'm going to be in the market for a new (used) car in the next year or so and I've been incredibly tempted by E46's. Other than wanting something a little newer I basically have the same exact views as Cobalt60 posted. I'm not mechanically minded at all so I'd either be learning in a hurry or finding a good mechanic. My father in law is very mechanically minded and loves European cars but, while he's very generous and would help me with any maintenance I wanted, he's family not my mechanic.

For reference my last 4 cars have been a 1999 Corolla, a 1995 Corolla, and a 1991 Corolla. Before that I drove my parents 1992 Corolla and their 1991 Geo Prism (Which is more or less a re-badged Corolla). I know this alone should scare me away from any car that needs much TLC, but I need some sense talked into me.

The Third Man · # ? Mar 14, 2011 03:45

It's pretty simple, if you follow the maintenance schedule that comes in your owners manual, a BMW is going to be a reliable car. They don't respond as well as Japanese cars do when you neglect them. If you aren't mechanically inclined, then you will have to pay a lot for someone else to do the work necessary to keeping them reliable.

Cobalt60 · Cobalt60 Jun 1, 2006

The Third Man posted:

It's pretty simple, if you follow the maintenance schedule that comes in your owners manual, a BMW is going to be a reliable car. They don't respond as well as Japanese cars do when you neglect them. If you aren't mechanically inclined, then you will have to pay a lot for someone else to do the work necessary to keeping them reliable.

But just to elaborate, is it "good enough" to keep a close eye on fluids, change oil regularly, take to a mechanic for engine checks every six months, etc.? You know, the "usual" stuff? I'm happy to adhere to strict schedules for amateur-accessible maintenance, and turn a wrench every so often while looking at a gauge or whatever.

But I can NOT become a part-time mechanic, if that makes sense. Like I can't drop the engine every few months, or buy tons of tools, or spend all weekend just to keep it going during the week. So yeah, it's no 2007 Honda Civic, but does buying a 2002 or a E30 mean I become a full-time weekend auto mechanic?

Whether I eventually own one or not, I've really been loving the 2002 models -- especially the round tail-light versions. Oh and double-especially the TTi models, but I'll never pay the premium for those. Probably.

squirrelBitten · # ? Mar 14, 2011 05:45

I went to take a look at this e30 325e today: http://seattle.craigslist.org/see/ctd/2262277718.html. The sales guy was convinced its actually an es because aside from the spoiler all easily identifiable es options (steering wheel, seats) are on it. This is the first e30 I've driven, so I couldn't tell whether the suspension was upgraded or not. Any idea what it actually is?

Otherwise, it's in really good shape, with just a few noticeable problems I could find, all cosmetic. No rust. Engine runs really strong for its age, suspension seems fine over bumps and curves, alignment is bang on, brakes seem fine. It had a Puget Sound BMW CCA sticker on the back window. The dealer wants 3000 for it. Is this a fair price? I was thinking of offering about 2500 given its a big bumper e, but I can't really find much in the way of comparable cars to go off of.

Pimpsolo · Pimpsolo Jun 6, 2004

squirrelBitten posted:

I went to take a look at this e30 325e today:

Those are not es seats, and even if they were, the es does not really command a higher price.

Depending on mileage, I would be very hard pressed to pay more than a dime over $2000 out the door, and I think that's higher than most people would respond in this thread. I say $2000 because looks clean, rust free, and apparently "enthusiast" owned (sticker and M-tech steering wheel swap.)

That said, for $2000, I think I would buy it, depending on mileage. Unfortunately they won't sell it for that, and any more than that you're being ripped. They want to finance a quarter century old car that says "BMW". Some schmuck will do it, and if the dealership's really lucky, they'll default on the financing, and they'll get to sell it again.

squirrelBitten · # ? Mar 14, 2011 06:45

Pimpsolo posted:

advice

Fair enough, thanks! Keep searching I shall.

The Third Man · # ? Mar 14, 2011 13:25

Cobalt60 posted:

But just to elaborate, is it "good enough" to keep a close eye on fluids, change oil regularly, take to a mechanic for engine checks every six months, etc.? You know, the "usual" stuff? I'm happy to adhere to strict schedules for amateur-accessible maintenance, and turn a wrench every so often while looking at a gauge or whatever.

But I can NOT become a part-time mechanic, if that makes sense. Like I can't drop the engine every few months, or buy tons of tools, or spend all weekend just to keep it going during the week. So yeah, it's no 2007 Honda Civic, but does buying a 2002 or a E30 mean I become a full-time weekend auto mechanic?

Whether I eventually own one or not, I've really been loving the 2002 models -- especially the round tail-light versions. Oh and double-especially the TTi models, but I'll never pay the premium for those. Probably.

If you're fine with taking care of it, any modern BMW will be a great car. Don't expect to get away with the same level of reliability in an E30 or especially a 2002. Both are solid cars, but they're going on 20-30+ years old, and old cars need to be babied, there's no way around that. If you buy a clean or restored example, you probably won't be dropping engines frequently, but it's not going to be the model of dependability that you seem to be looking for.

VibrioCholera · # ? Mar 14, 2011 13:53

If you're not smashing your E46 around a track you shouldn't have reliability issues outside of any other car. You can drive a Toyota for 300,000 miles using glass shards as oil but I mean the car performs like you're doing that from the factory so it really doesn't matter.

The engine is the last part of these cars I'd worry about as well.

Lightbulb Out · # ? Mar 14, 2011 14:04

The Third Man posted:

old cars need to be babied, there's no way around that.

If you are doing your maintenance, there is no need to baby an old BMW.

awesome-express · # ? Mar 14, 2011 14:39

Bbbbbbbback with my own pics now! Sorry for the cameraphone quality though.

How should I fix this thing? Got this bitchin' GPS system that I really wanna use.

Saga · Saga Aug 17, 2009

Cobalt60 posted:

But just to elaborate, is it "good enough" to keep a close eye on fluids, change oil regularly, take to a mechanic for engine checks every six months, etc.? You know, the "usual" stuff? I'm happy to adhere to strict schedules for amateur-accessible maintenance, and turn a wrench every so often while looking at a gauge or whatever.

But I can NOT become a part-time mechanic, if that makes sense. Like I can't drop the engine every few months, or buy tons of tools, or spend all weekend just to keep it going during the week. So yeah, it's no 2007 Honda Civic, but does buying a 2002 or a E30 mean I become a full-time weekend auto mechanic?

Whether I eventually own one or not, I've really been loving the 2002 models -- especially the round tail-light versions. Oh and double-especially the TTi models, but I'll never pay the premium for those. Probably.

Cobalt and BeastofExmoor:

For me it would also be an E30. The next generation E36 cars are a step-change in weight and complexity and have a recognisably "modern" style, without a meaningful improvement in reliability . The E30 has the feel of a 70s/80s car (because they were designed in the early 80s and evolved directly from the earlier E21 of the 1970s), but is a robust design which functions extremely well as a daily driver on any kind of decent modern rubber.

They may well be slower than the later cars in any number of circumstances and do not offer the same plush, premium feel, but are simple and very enjoyable to drive. For me, the e30 is nicer than the later model E46 car I used to drive, because it suits the roads (tight, twisty, bumpy) I commute on very well, while costing very little to run.

Things they won't do, however: achieve great fuel efficiency, have side airbags, have traction or stability control.

The basic problem with E30s is simply that they're "old" cars in lifecycle terms. Parts are cheap and easily available, they're mechanically simple and they don't require specialist mechanics any more than a Corolla or a Civic does. But as with any car that age, you are looking for a rust-free body and evidence that the last few owners have kept it maintained properly, which includes replacing stuff that fails quite normally through age and use.

If you just buy the cheapest available car, stuff will assuredly break. If you find a good car (and they do exist), there's no reason it won't be at least as reliable as a similarly-aged Civic/Corolla/Camry if maintained according to the schedule and common sense. Mine isn't even a good one, in that it was beat on for about 10 years and then "rescued" by its previous owner in 2007. Nevertheless, it has done two years and ~20k without ever leaving me stranded or requiring any wallet-busting maintenance.

The pick of the bunch for a daily driver would be the touring (estate/station wagon), but since they didn't make it to the US, a good 325i four-door sedan from the second half of the 80s without the factory body kit or extensive modifications is likely to be the best value. If you really don't mind slow, a manual 318i gets a few more MPG. The six-cylinder 320i is basically as thirsty as the 325i without the extra power, while the 318is and 325i sport models (e.g. "325is") in good condition seem to command a steep premium.

Kalladar · # ? Mar 14, 2011 15:22

Crustashio posted:

Second, does anyone recognize if this is the later model fuel pump? I have a eurospec 325iX to that has a bunch of wierd differences to the american ones. Realoem isn't really any help on whether or not I have the in tank pump or the external one - depending on which diagram I check it lists the single later model pump, or the older external pump + presupply pump.

I've had a E30 320i(Euro) with the exact same setup judging by the photo's. It's a "in tank" pump. Disconnect those 2 wires and safely remove the gasoline supply. Then there should be 3 bolts. Remove those, then take the entire pump, while turning left, then up, and it should come out and you should be able to see the pump.

kimbo305 · # ? Mar 14, 2011 15:30

VibrioCholera posted:

If you're not smashing your E46 around a track you shouldn't have reliability issues outside of any other car.

Lightbulb Out posted:

If you are doing your maintenance, there is no need to baby an old BMW.

But in the case of the E46, that means preventatively maintaining the water pump and sometimes radiator at pretty short intervals, right? While we're at it, doesn't the E39 have the same problem with plastic impellers?

Gripen5 · # ? Mar 14, 2011 15:35

What is the deal with the E39 M5? Just for the hell of it I look them up on a few car ad sights and saw several of the 2000 model year being sold for 15-20k. That seems really inexpensive especially when the M3 of similar years is only a couple thousand less.

I would love to buy one (Although, there is no way I could unless my car mysteriously gets totaled. Please.). Are they somehow undesirable? Are they a bitch and half to fix and maintain? A 4 door sedan with ~400 HP seems like a pretty neat thing to have.

Lightbulb Out · # ? Mar 14, 2011 15:55

kimbo305 posted:

But in the case of the E46, that means preventatively maintaining the water pump and sometimes radiator at pretty short intervals, right? While we're at it, doesn't the E39 have the same problem with plastic impellers?

E36s, I don't know about E39s. I wouldn't say 60,000 miles is short intervals though.

Sterndotstern · # ? Mar 14, 2011 17:14

Lightbulb Out posted:

E36s, I don't know about E39s. I wouldn't say 60,000 miles is short intervals though.

That 60k number is also very conservative. I have seen perfectly functioning cooling systems on 90k or 120k mile cars, but unlike your standard Honda/Toyota, BMWs tend to have timing chains instead of belts and therefore do not get the benefit of the 90k mi belt/waterpump/accessory belts refresh like so many other cars. This leads to owners believing mistakenly that waterpumps do not wear out, hence the routine problems with them in used cars.

The other known fuckup in BMWs (and really, any car brand) is the use of plastic in the radiator. In every single radiator I've ever replaced on any car, the failing part is the plastic part. Moral of the story: replace with an upgrade or treat it as a 100k mi wear item.

Beach Bum · # ? Mar 14, 2011 17:46

awesome-express posted:

Bbbbbbbback with my own pics now! Sorry for the cameraphone quality though.

How should I fix this thing? Got this bitchin' GPS system that I really wanna use.

Small suction cup, then a tiny screwdriver?

awesome-express · # ? Mar 14, 2011 18:09

Beach Bum posted:

Small suction cup, then a tiny screwdriver?

The thing won't budge upwards. It easily goes down when you push on it. After a certain point it locks into place and doesn't move. I tried lodging a screwdriver in there, didn't really work.

televiper · # ? Mar 14, 2011 18:57

awesome-express posted:

The thing won't budge upwards. It easily goes down when you push on it. After a certain point it locks into place and doesn't move. I tried lodging a screwdriver in there, didn't really work.

If those are like the E36, the computer comes out very easily by running a credit card around the edges, then you can maybe reach underneath for a better vantage?

e: oh, wait, that's climate control, not computer. Still, might attach the same way?

awesome-express · # ? Mar 14, 2011 19:14

It's a cigarette lighter. Just tried the card thing, the panel doohickey kinda wedged on its side but wouldn't go up. Nearly broke my debit card too. :haw:

televiper · # ? Mar 14, 2011 20:34

awesome-express posted:

It's a cigarette lighter. Just tried the card thing, the panel doohickey kinda wedged on its side but wouldn't go up. Nearly broke my debit card too.

The nuclear option might be to do this, then just pull/push/knock/cut the little door off.

KaiserBen · # ? Mar 14, 2011 21:22

Gripen5 posted:

What is the deal with the E39 M5? Just for the hell of it I look them up on a few car ad sights and saw several of the 2000 model year being sold for 15-20k. That seems really inexpensive especially when the M3 of similar years is only a couple thousand less.

I would love to buy one (Although, there is no way I could unless my car mysteriously gets totaled. Please.). Are they somehow undesirable? Are they a bitch and half to fix and maintain? A 4 door sedan with ~400 HP seems like a pretty neat thing to have.

Bitch and a half to maintain, pretty much. I bought one last year for ~$16k, and while it's been reliable, it's been maintenance intensive. Very expensive to maintain too, and they do have some systemic issues, mostly due to the fact that the car wasn't really designed for that much power. The clutches fail, the swaybar brackets fail, the suspension bushings fail alarmingly quickly (upgraded ones are available), VANOS noises, and some people have reported rod bearing issues. Even oil changes aren't cheap, ~$125 for DIY.

Also, they got a major facelift in '01, including just about everything you'd want on an M5, so that's why the '00s are so cheap. OTOH, for $16k, I couldn't find anything more interesting for a daily driver. If you're ok with lots of maintenance (and expensive parts), go for it.

The Third Man · # ? Mar 14, 2011 21:28

Out of curiosity, how much cash have you had to put into it, and how many miles were on it when you bought it?

KaiserBen · # ? Mar 14, 2011 21:54

The Third Man posted:

Out of curiosity, how much cash have you had to put into it, and how many miles were on it when you bought it?

About $4k, $2k of which I knew was needed when I bought it (tires, alignment, a few suspension bits), and about $500 in normal maintenance (fluids, consumable parts, etc). Some repairs (thermostat, suspension bushings, bent wheels), and some upgrades.

It had 72k miles when I bought it, has ~82k now.

Crustashio · # ? Mar 14, 2011 22:54

Cobalt60 posted:

But I can NOT become a part-time mechanic, if that makes sense. Like I can't drop the engine every few months, or buy tons of tools, or spend all weekend just to keep it going during the week. So yeah, it's no 2007 Honda Civic, but does buying a 2002 or a E30 mean I become a full-time weekend auto mechanic?

If you aren't willing to buy tools, don't even think about buying an e30/2002 unless you are really, really good friends with a euro mechanic. They are "reliable" in the sense that if you keep on top of things they won't strand you. They are not as bulletproof as an older civic/corolla.

The older BMWs are generally regarded as very easy to work on (my e30 is far less annoying than my e36), but you have to be willing to do the work. Having an old car simply means that things are going to wear and need replacing, no matter how good of an example you find.

The thing is, it isn't hard to learn. This is probably the 10th time I've said it, but I went from knowing nothing about maintenance to dropping my transmission and doing a clutch job within 8 months. There really isn't an excuse to not learn how to maintain a car unless you live in a place where you can't (some apartments, for example).

Kalladar posted:

I've had a E30 320i(Euro) with the exact same setup judging by the photo's. It's a "in tank" pump. Disconnect those 2 wires and safely remove the gasoline supply. Then there should be 3 bolts. Remove those, then take the entire pump, while turning left, then up, and it should come out and you should be able to see the pump.

After searching parts sites for an hour to try and find out, I ended up jacking up my car last night and checking underneath. Turns out I do have the old style external pump - it looks like the transfer pumps and intank pumps look almost exactly the same.

Crustashio fucked around with this message at 22:58 on Mar 14, 2011

awesome-express · # ? Mar 15, 2011 07:34

televiper posted:

The nuclear option might be to do this, then just pull/push/knock/cut the little door off.

Bah, I don't have any cupholders, and have no idea how to remove that panel where they're supposed to be placed at. Thanks for the link though, I'm really afraid that I'll just end up breaking something.

Also regarding maintaining an e39, mine is a 525i, and a cooling system overhaul was needed eventually. So always keep a grand or two for general maintenance. Needed to replace the radiator, water pump and fan clutch, I assume M5's are even more service-intensive. Let's be realistic, these cars are �10 years old now. Things are bound to come up.

Then again it's a fast German sedan. So if you're happy dumping money into the thing, go for it.

awesome-express fucked around with this message at 07:39 on Mar 15, 2011

Saga · Saga Aug 17, 2009

Crustashio posted:

If you aren't willing to buy tools, don't even think about buying an e30/2002 unless you are really, really good friends with a euro mechanic. They are "reliable" in the sense that if you keep on top of things they won't strand you. They are not as bulletproof as an older civic/corolla.

I don't know about that - the stuff that tends to go wrong on any e30 that's had regular fluid changes tends to be random bits of trim or the usual BMW suspension components. Electrics usually only if they've been butchered by someone, elderly blue temp sensors and ICVs aside, which are easy to deal with and don't need a mechanic's intervention.

I can't speak to the 2002s however.

Gripen5 · # ? Mar 15, 2011 15:04

KaiserBen posted:

Bitch and a half to maintain, pretty much. I bought one last year for ~$16k, and while it's been reliable, it's been maintenance intensive. Very expensive to maintain too, and they do have some systemic issues, mostly due to the fact that the car wasn't really designed for that much power. The clutches fail, the swaybar brackets fail, the suspension bushings fail alarmingly quickly (upgraded ones are available), VANOS noises, and some people have reported rod bearing issues. Even oil changes aren't cheap, ~$125 for DIY.

Also, they got a major facelift in '01, including just about everything you'd want on an M5, so that's why the '00s are so cheap. OTOH, for $16k, I couldn't find anything more interesting for a daily driver. If you're ok with lots of maintenance (and expensive parts), go for it.

Yeah, the consumable parts in it sounds super expensive and don't seem to last that long. Someone commented on a BMW forum that the tires are $380 each, rotors are $320 each, brakes are $80 each, and that doesn't even consider the labor involved. I don't have a lot of space or tools (or experience) for the more intense DIY stuff anyway, so I think an M5 will just be a pipe dream.

Pilsner · Pilsner Nov 23, 2002

You could consider a 540 instead. It's a league below in terms of purchase cost and expensive-ness of parts. It's slower of course, but it's attainable.

Keyser_Soze · # ? Mar 15, 2011 17:02

awesome-express posted:

Bah, I don't have any cupholders, and have no idea how to remove that panel where they're supposed to be placed at.

You start on all these cars by squeezing in the shift boot where you will find the first two screws. You can get to that floppy port in under 5 min.

Adbot · # ? May 30, 2024 03:05

guidoanselmi · # ? Mar 15, 2011 17:44

Recent story.

I got to work one day in a huge rush to make a meeting, leaving my key in my 530 E60 because I'm an idiot. At the end of the day, notice my interior lights are dead. I try starting - and obviously the starter doesn't work.

I call security for a jump start and they get over. After some false starts and some wonky behavior from the alarm system - the starter keeps going without ignition a few times.

Eventually, it turns but it has an extremely rough idle, going from 800-1500 RPM 2x a second with the caution dialog lighting up with errors. I try putting it in drive and going through the gears to no avail. This hasn't ever happened to me with a car and I figured it was the throttle computer.

I decide to leave it for the night and come back the next day - same thing, but I decide to drive it very slowly over to my local indie shop. I get there, turn it off and turn it on to see if the higher terminal voltage now helped - and it did! What more, the car still drove the same way (I hear that E60 adapts itself to your driving style).

I've had to jump start the car before and never encountered this. I guess I just don't know why low voltage would cause the car's computer to work so poorly as opposed to not just working at all and then staying that way. Don't know if it's happened to anyone else? I've looked around on other forums for rough idle problems, but no one had anything like this.