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Gomi Pile posted:so what is your point? what is your solution? these people participating in this activity (which costs money, just like every other similar activity) with a very high barrier to the professional level (just like every other similar activity) should get paid to play their game? everyone else in a beer league isn't getting paid. No, I'm just saying fighting is a bit different because it isn't a social/school activity like some sports, so people are more often self-selecting into it. There's no kiddie MMA that you do at recess, which can grow into middle school and high school team sports, which you can do at college if you're good, just for the scholarship money. There's so little exposure for fighting that I claim it's started later in life by people who are one the whole more serious about it.
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Mar 18, 2011 18:51
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except there's wrestling and any smart kid looking to get into mma would already be wrestling. lots of people go into mma later in life without having a background in a combat sport, and they are all bad. as the skill level of the sport rises these guys without athletic backgrounds will be getting crushed at the low levels of the pro ranks.
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Mar 18, 2011 19:06
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what is your solution to your problem? should bad fighters get paid a lot of money to practice in front of seven guys?
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Mar 18, 2011 19:06
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Pneub posted:Is baseball slide-kicking someone on the ground specifically illegal in most major promotions? I can't think of many good applications, it would at least be a funny way to kick dudes in that loving flipped-over turtle defense. To the head, it is illegal in every single modern promotion except Sengoku, which happens to be dead. The only baseball slide head stomp I can ever remember came from Sakuraba a trillion years ago.
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Mar 18, 2011 20:06
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Gomi Pile posted:what is your solution to your problem? should bad fighters get paid a lot of money to practice in front of seven guys? I didn't say it was a problem; I said it sucked. And I agree, in the absense of any other combat sport infrastructure, wrestling beats everything.
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Mar 18, 2011 20:10
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what's the deal with UFC Fight Nights? what's the difference between them and the regular numbered events?
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Mar 22, 2011 10:00
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Fight Nights are free on SpikeTV sometime in the middle of the week. They tend to have less names on them and rarely have title fights. They're a way to showcase up and coming fighters to the general public who wouldn't normally pay to see them headline. A numbered event is usually on PPV and has the big name stars. Sometimes PPVs are free, but usually only if they're being held in the UK or Australia. Those cards typically have fighters with less drawing power and are on a tape delay. UFC Live on Versus work the same as the Fight Nights. Though the cards have been pretty solid so far.
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Mar 22, 2011 10:53
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Haraksha posted:A numbered event is usually on PPV and has the big name stars. Sometimes PPVs are free, but usually only if they're being held in the UK or Australia. Those cards typically have fighters with less drawing power and are on a tape delay.
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Mar 22, 2011 19:42
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Ogantai posted:Australian cards are live, not tape delayed. Correct. The "Free PPVs" are generally held in Europe. Irish/U.K. cards and the German one are the only "free ppvs" that come to mind here in the U.S. Oh, and the U.A.E. card was free maybe?
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Mar 22, 2011 21:18
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Eat This Glob posted:Correct. The "Free PPVs" are generally held in Europe. Irish/U.K. cards and the German one are the only "free ppvs" that come to mind here in the U.S. Oh, and the U.A.E. card was free maybe? The UAE card was a PPV. They usually do one show from outside of North America as a PPV per year and 2 on Spike.
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Mar 22, 2011 22:28
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Ogantai posted:Australian cards are live, not tape delayed. Yeah, because of the time difference a 1pm show out here starts the same time as they do in the US. Which works out pretty well.
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Mar 23, 2011 02:20
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Gomi Pile posted:except there's wrestling and any smart kid looking to get into mma would already be wrestling. lots of people go into mma later in life without having a background in a combat sport, and they are all bad. as the skill level of the sport rises these guys without athletic backgrounds will be getting crushed at the low levels of the pro ranks. You are 99.9% right but I have to mention that I'm pretty sure that Rich Franklin's athletic career before becoming a professional fighter was only playing high school football.
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Mar 25, 2011 02:51
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There are also huge sections of the country where schools don't have wrestling programs and because of title 9 and other issues lot of wrestling programs were cut.
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Mar 25, 2011 03:00
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Or, if a potential fighter prefers striking, it would be much better to learn striking in an MMA context from day one, instead of trying to figure out how to sprawl later in life.
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Mar 25, 2011 15:33
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Xguard86 posted:it seems like a fighter's guild would make more sense, since they are independent contractors on shorter contracts. The main issue remains that some fighters would do far worse under systems that a union would propose than they do right now. Getting paid similarly based on performance (W/L) would hurt fighters like Chris Leben or Lytle dramatically. Neither of those guys are world beaters, but even in their losses they get paid significantly more than others because they are entertaining. Working things out to be "fair" would be extremely "unfair" to those guys since their paydays would essentially evaporate.
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Mar 26, 2011 17:55
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the yellow dart posted:The main issue remains that some fighters would do far worse under systems that a union would propose than they do right now. Getting paid similarly based on performance (W/L) would hurt fighters like Chris Leben or Lytle dramatically. Neither of those guys are world beaters, but even in their losses they get paid significantly more than others because they are entertaining. Working things out to be "fair" would be extremely "unfair" to those guys since their paydays would essentially evaporate. good. those guys suck.
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Mar 26, 2011 18:07
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Maybe it makes it less legitimate as a sport, but I'm so down with paying guys who put on a show as much as guys who are winning at the highest levels. Jon Fitch is a great fighter who shouldn't be penalized for doing what it takes to win, but if I found out Matt Brown was getting paid the same as Fitch I'd be 100% cool with that.
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Mar 26, 2011 19:33
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I think it makes it less legitimate as well. Pay people for winning, if you don't like how they're winning change the rules. Be a sport.
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Mar 27, 2011 00:53
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Maha posted:I think it makes it less legitimate as well. Pay people for winning, if you don't like how they're winning change the rules. Be a sport. Because players are only paid for superior on field performance in other sports. Did you miss Derek Jeter getting a 4 year contract at huge money coming off the worst season of his career? Or Ryan Howard? There are tons of players in legitimate sports who are paid for who they are as much as how they play.
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Mar 27, 2011 04:14
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MassRayPer posted:Because players are only paid for superior on field performance in other sports. Did you miss Derek Jeter getting a 4 year contract at huge money coming off the worst season of his career? Or Ryan Howard? There are tons of players in legitimate sports who are paid for who they are as much as how they play. Sooo... that's a good thing?
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Mar 27, 2011 04:39
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Pneub posted:Sooo... that's a good thing? No, it is just a thing. I don't care if fighters are making more money than other fighters. The fighters who earn the most tend to be the dudes who are winning the most right now or won the most in the past. The only outlier is Brock who even if he didn't "earn" it he was still champion and defended his belt twice. If some mid level guys get a bit more for entertaining me than a peer who is less entertaining but wins more, who cares? It isn't going to make the sport look less legitimate because there are ridiculous contracts everywhere. So if guys get paid and there's no downside to Gay Skinhead Fighting I don't care.
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Mar 27, 2011 06:32
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It's one thing to compartmentalize fighters as only as good/bad, but that's not what sells. It's a business and being entertaining means more pay per view buys and more public awareness, so why shouldn't they get paid more than a fighter like Fitch, who is eminently talented but completely boring to the buying public. So what if Fitch is the 2nd best WW on the planet if nobody gives a poo poo if he wins a fight or not. This isn't even a MMA issue, just ask Sergio Martinez.
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Mar 27, 2011 06:42
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It's not like Fitch makes poo poo money either. His reported pay is 54/54 which is more than the Lebens of the world make.
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Mar 27, 2011 06:45
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MassRayPer posted:It's not like Fitch makes poo poo money either. His reported pay is 54/54 which is more than the Lebens of the world make. Agreeing with you here, but if you're the top of the class you'll get paid...if you're exceptionally entertaining you will get paid too. The point is that you get paid what you are worth to the company.
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Mar 27, 2011 06:48
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Boregasm posted:Agreeing with you here, but if you're the top of the class you'll get paid...if you're exceptionally entertaining you will get paid too. The point is that you get paid what you are worth to the company. If fighter pay keeps going up it is basically the best system in sports.
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Mar 27, 2011 06:50
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I know its entirely speculative, but it seems like guys like The Immortal and Leben would be getting a heftier "locker room bonuses" than the Fitches and Maynards of the world.
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Mar 27, 2011 08:51
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Can someone explain this 10th Planet JJ/Eddie Bravo stuff to me? I feel like I've mostly seen it mentioned as mad stoner jiu-jitsu with limited practical application, but in that case why does it have the profile it does to begin with?
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Mar 27, 2011 23:15
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Jack of Hearts posted:Can someone explain this 10th Planet JJ/Eddie Bravo stuff to me? I feel like I've mostly seen it mentioned as mad stoner jiu-jitsu with limited practical application, but in that case why does it have the profile it does to begin with? Joe Rogan is a Bravo brown belt and mainstreamed a lot of the terms, and Bravo himself used to be UFC's version of Harold Lederman.
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Mar 27, 2011 23:18
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jeffersonlives posted:Joe Rogan is a Bravo brown belt and mainstreamed a lot of the terms, and Bravo himself used to be UFC's version of Harold Lederman. Thanks. I knew both of those things (though I'd forgotten the second part) and thought there might just be more to the story. (By which I mean that I secretly hoped there existed a style of Stoned Monkey Jiu Jitsu that was unstoppable in the hands of a master who smoked enough weed.)
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Mar 27, 2011 23:32
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Jack of Hearts posted:Thanks. I knew both of those things (though I'd forgotten the second part) and thought there might just be more to the story. (By which I mean that I secretly hoped there existed a style of Stoned Monkey Jiu Jitsu that was unstoppable in the hands of a master who smoked enough weed.) That's pretty much 10th planet right there.
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Mar 27, 2011 23:34
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Jack of Hearts posted:Thanks. I knew both of those things (though I'd forgotten the second part) and thought there might just be more to the story. (By which I mean that I secretly hoped there existed a style of Stoned Monkey Jiu Jitsu that was unstoppable in the hands of a master who smoked enough weed.) It's not really that different from normal bjj they just have some peculiar techniques that you never actually see anyone do outside training DVDs.
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Mar 27, 2011 23:39
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Xguard86 posted:It's not really that different from normal bjj they just have some peculiar techniques that you never actually see anyone do outside training DVDs. A decent number of guys use the lockdown, but very few people who aren't 10th planet use rubber guard and you rarely ever see twisters anywhere.
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Mar 28, 2011 00:27
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dokomoy posted:you rarely ever see twisters anywhere. Welp
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Mar 28, 2011 01:28
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Jack of Hearts posted:Thanks. I knew both of those things (though I'd forgotten the second part) and thought there might just be more to the story. (By which I mean that I secretly hoped there existed a style of Stoned Monkey Jiu Jitsu that was unstoppable in the hands of a master who smoked enough weed.) he beat a gracie at abu dhabi and people paid attention to him. he was decent in competitions, and had a flash of brilliance, but now he's fat and dumb.
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Mar 28, 2011 01:33
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Eddie Bravo won ADCC in 2003, which elevated his status in the first place. Also, while a lot of people rag on his techniques because of the stupid names and the way Joe Rogan freaks out about them, they can work in the right circumstances. Rogan acts like if you don't know rubber guard, you can't win on the ground. This isn't true. It's like any tool, though. If you know when to use it properly, it can be highly effective. Also, Bravo's BJJ book is ridiculous. The entire introduction is about the powers of weed in BJJ.
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Mar 28, 2011 01:36
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Haraksha posted:Also, Bravo's BJJ book is ridiculous. The entire introduction is about the powers of weed in BJJ. I bet you would have ragged on the guy who invented Drunken Monkey Kung Fu also. Which I'm confident would dominate in MMA were alcohol not a banned substance. I base this on the documentary, Drunken Master.
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Mar 28, 2011 01:42
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Haraksha posted:Eddie Bravo won ADCC in 2003 He didn't actually win, he came in 4th, but he triangled Royler Gracie in the quarters when Royler was considered one of the best submission grapplers in the world and Bravo was basically a semi-random Machado brown belt. It was a Real Big Deal.
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Mar 28, 2011 01:46
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Ah, my bad. I thought he won. I knew it was a big deal, so I figured it was for first.
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Mar 28, 2011 01:49
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I've seen how most guys in their weight class can make weight at 170, 185, 205, etc. before the fight. Lately though, they come in at 171, 186, 206, etc. Why is the extra pound ignored here and do the fighters still get docked pay for this?
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Mar 28, 2011 04:04
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theres a 1 lbs allowance for everything but title fights
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Mar 28, 2011 04:14
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