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IOwnCalculus posted:Fair enough, but the RX8 is out the door because its fuel consumption is so atrocious that it can't meet modern emission standards. On top of that low-for-a-V8 fuel economy, it doesn't even make enough power to keep up with Mazda's own turbo four cylinder, which also gets better mileage and has better reliability (sorry RADL). There's nothing more Mazda can really do to the 13B to make more power naturally aspirated and still stay emissions compliant, and we all know how well turbo rotaries do in daily life. Agreed, the RX8 is kind of a weird example but it's definitely getting hurt by it's bad mileage. This years 15 mpg could be 20 mpg in 5 years. That's where my Mustang sites right now. With $5 a gallon looking realistic by this summer, who knows? IOwnCalculus posted:There's also the fact that of the under-25 demographic, while a lot of them may be all for buying a turbo V6 Mustang...how many of them can afford to? I don't see how Ford could possibly make the turbo V6 cheaper than the GT; I could see it slotting in somewhere between the GT and the Boss, but that's not going to be a price point you see many 20-25 year olds buying new. Yeah but I'm talking next-gen Mustang which is 2014 at the very earliest. One would imagine that those under 25-ers are well into their careers with a little bit of money. I bought my GT when I turned 27. I think I'm just hoping for a Mustang that I can drive when gas hits $7 and I'm not living near public transportation so 1000+ miles a month is more the norm..
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Mar 18, 2011 19:42
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IOwnCalculus posted:Fair enough, but the RX8 is out the door because its fuel consumption is so atrocious that it can't meet modern emission standards. On top of that low-for-a-V8 fuel economy, it doesn't even make enough power to keep up with Mazda's own turbo four cylinder, which also gets better mileage and has better reliability (sorry RADL). This is an aside, but evo magazine noted that the new 4B11 motor does worse in CO2 emissions than the higher hp V8 in the 458 Italia. That's not a metric we care as much about in the US, but it does show that turboing a smaller engine isn't a straight silver bullet.
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Mar 18, 2011 19:51
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frozenphil posted:The 5.4 is dead. The only vehicle still using it is the GT500. You're going to see the 5.0 Coyote, something based off of the 5.0 Coyote, the 6.2, or something based off of the 6.2 between the GT500's frame rails. I actually agree, a simple bore and stroke of the 5.4 just isn't gonna happen. The mod motor is dead, and frankly deserves to be. But you wouldn't have to sleeve the block if you did a tall-deck 5.8. It would be based on the Coyote in the same way the 5.4 was based off the 4.6. I would say a BOSS-based 5.8 seems a bit more likely, if for no other reason (and there are other reasons) than the fact that it's had to occur to someone that it's a bit odd to have a Boss V8 that never sees Mustang duty. Right now, I'm just not willing to bet on either horse. Ford has gotten really good at holding their cards to their chest. Anyway, on the Ecoboost Mustang thing. I have no doubt we'll see one, but I'd bet on it being the 2.0 Ecoboost 4.
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Mar 18, 2011 21:18
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Q_res posted:I actually agree, a simple bore and stroke of the 5.4 just isn't gonna happen. The mod motor is dead, and frankly deserves to be. But you wouldn't have to sleeve the block if you did a tall-deck 5.8. It would be based on the Coyote in the same way the 5.4 was based off the 4.6. I would say a BOSS-based 5.8 seems a bit more likely, if for no other reason (and there are other reasons) than the fact that it's had to occur to someone that it's a bit odd to have a Boss V8 that never sees Mustang duty. You're not going to see the 6.2 get destroked to 5.8 and put in the GT500. There is no way Ford would allow their trucks to have an engine that makes more horsepower than their halo Mustang.
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Mar 18, 2011 21:22
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Considering the 6.2 in truck trim doesn't even make more horsepower than a GT, though admittedly a good bit more torque, I doubt a blown 5.8 Boss would have any problems.
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Mar 18, 2011 21:33
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Q_res posted:Considering the 6.2 in truck trim doesn't even make more horsepower than a GT, though admittedly a good bit more torque, I doubt a blown 5.8 Boss would have any problems. It's all about perception. If I can't tell the other dentists at the golf course that I have the biggest engine Ford makes in my car I will not be pleased.
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Mar 18, 2011 21:36
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That's retarded, nobody gives a poo poo that the 6.2 is bigger than the 5.4 already in the GT500. And I'd bet most people who buy them couldn't even tell you what displacement the engine was off the top of their head. Some sure, but those are exactly the same kind of people who wouldn't care in the first place.
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Mar 18, 2011 21:42
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Q_res posted:That's retarded, nobody gives a poo poo that the 6.2 is bigger than the 5.4 already in the GT500. And I'd bet most people who buy them couldn't even tell you what displacement the engine was off the top of their head. Some sure, but those are exactly the same kind of people who wouldn't care in the first place. People alive in the 60s-70s car lingo bingo: Cubes, five hunnet horsepower, blow doors off of, gas was a nickel, "I had a 427, 454, SS", four barrel, jap crap, blocked off intersection to race, spin wheels in 4th.
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Mar 18, 2011 22:02
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And where are these mythical people who give a poo poo? Because they're certainly not complaining about the 5.4 vs 6.2. It's bullshit.
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Mar 18, 2011 22:05
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Q_res posted:That's retarded, nobody gives a poo poo that the 6.2 is bigger than the 5.4 already in the GT500. The 5.4 was in use in the GT500 a few years before the 6.2 came out; Ford isn't going to switch mid stream.
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Mar 18, 2011 22:11
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Maybe it's stupid but I honestly love the sound of a V8 vs a turbo V6... By the way, I am just curious, is there an easy way externally to tell apart the 3.7L (2011+) from the 4.0L V6 models?
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Mar 18, 2011 22:48
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Alright, so these people are dumb enough to care that a blown 5.8 is smaller than the 6.2, even though the larger motor is less powerful. But they're smart enough to give the 5.4 a pass because it was there before the 6.2 started production, and not bitch that the 6.2 should be put in there? You're hilarious, seriously.
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Mar 18, 2011 22:51
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Q_res posted:Alright, so these people are dumb enough to care that a blown 5.8 is smaller than the 6.2, even though the larger motor is less powerful. But they're smart enough to give the 5.4 a pass because it was there before the 6.2 started production, and not bitch that the 6.2 should be put in there? I'm not saying it makes sense, I'm just saying that's how it is.
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Mar 18, 2011 22:59
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Q_res, why is it so hard for you to understand that most people aren't going to remember the displacement size but they WILL remember "it's the biggest engine Ford makes," and will brag on that to anyone who'll listen? Fake edit: and yes V8s sound waaaay better than V6s, turbo'd or not.
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Mar 18, 2011 23:12
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CombatWombat posted:Q_res, why is it so hard for you to understand that most people aren't going to remember the displacement size but they WILL remember "it's the biggest engine Ford makes," and will brag on that to anyone who'll listen? There's a difference between saying this will happen, and saying it'll piss people off if they can't say it. EDIT: It started with him complaining the 5.8 wouldn't make enough horsepower, in fact less than the 6.2. When I pointed out that the 6.2 didn't even make more hp than the vanilla trim Coyote, let alone more than a blown 5.8. It suddenly became "not big enough", so... Q_res fucked around with this message at 23:49 on Mar 18, 2011 |
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Mar 18, 2011 23:25
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kronix posted:Agreed, the RX8 is kind of a weird example but it's definitely getting hurt by it's bad mileage. This years 15 mpg could be 20 mpg in 5 years. That's where my Mustang sites right now. With $5 a gallon looking realistic by this summer, who knows? This is true. It's just that the RX8 is such an outlier when it comes to MPG vs performance - I really like the idea of the car and have thought about getting one several times, but every time I do I come back to the fact that both the purchase price (used to used) and ongoing maintenance (especially fuel consumption) are right about the same as a C5 Corvette...and no way, no how is a RX8 hanging with a C5 performance-wise. I can definitely see the proposition for an Ecoboost Mustang, but I would have an extremely hard time picking one up over a Coyote V8.
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Mar 19, 2011 00:22
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CharlesM posted:Maybe it's stupid but I honestly love the sound of a V8 vs a turbo V6... I believe that the 2010 has but one tail pipe and the 2011 has two.
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Mar 19, 2011 03:02
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kronix posted:The ZR1 Corvette is completely well mannered and it's a much lighter car. Tuning, electronic throttle, and computer nannies make it a ton easier to be civil with big numbers these days. Not to even start with how sticky the street tires you can be these days are. This is a naive way to look at 550+hp RWD car
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Mar 19, 2011 03:53
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kronix posted:The ZR1 Corvette is completely well mannered and it's a much lighter car. Tuning, electronic throttle, and computer nannies make it a ton easier to be civil with big numbers these days. Not to even start with how sticky the street tires you can be these days are. Plus keep in mind that the ZR1 has massive 335 rear tires compared to the GT500's 285's (same with the CTSV). The most common complaint I hear about the GT500 and the V is that they simply don't have enough rubber in the rear to hold up to the massive 500+ lbft of torque. They've pretty much hit the wall from an acceleration standpoint unless you want to upgrade to 305's or drag radials. Heck, I was running PS2 345's on the rear of my C5Z06 for awhile and with *only* ~400 rwhp, it was still pretty easy to light up the tires if you weren't paying attention. OrganizedEntropy fucked around with this message at 04:20 on Mar 19, 2011 |
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Mar 19, 2011 04:13
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Only the whitest of trash would openly brag about displacement size these days. Seriously, I believe public opinion has matured a little since the sixties and petty dick waving in the face of an oil crisis and 50 years of tweaking the internal combustion engine in every iteration to it's absolute maximum power and efficiency will attest to this. "Five point O" was and is marketing bullshit for the mulleted. You don't hear Audi and BMW bragging about getting 400+ horsepower out of 4.2L.
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Mar 19, 2011 06:29
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Oxytocin posted:Only the whitest of trash would openly brag about displacement size these days. Seriously, I believe public opinion has matured a little since the sixties I sincerely hope that NRFD is still alive and well in this great land 
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Mar 19, 2011 06:32
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Oxytocin posted:"Five point O" was and is marketing bullshit for the mulleted. 5.0 is an American tradition you commie gently caress http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CUkD4CY7YAQ
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Mar 19, 2011 06:42
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Muffinpox posted:5.0 is an American tradition you commie gently caress http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CUkD4CY7YAQ Thanks. I was running low on my Friday evening douche chills.
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Mar 19, 2011 06:46
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hahahaha found this related. What plays here is a minute of the worst performed, finest AI spergin: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ygSeJeGUwsk#t=2m If I stop laughing I'll transcribe for its sheer ridiculousness.
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Mar 19, 2011 06:52
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Oxytocin posted:Thanks. I was running low on my Friday evening douche chills. I think that song is why they killed off the 5.0 originally. On a more serious note, it depends on the target market. I've met (older) people who still are the the 'no replacement for displacement' mindset and will look down on a 4/5/6 cylinder because they're rocking a V8, or think a 4.2 is definitely faster than a 2.0 turbo. Although your demographic may not really care about displacement, people who grew up in the heyday of muscle cars probably still do to a point and they're the people dropping 100k for a ~~~NUMBERS MATCHING GTO~~~. You sell to the audience you need to court. Young dudes and tuners don't give a poo poo about displacement, it's the older market that the 5.8 would cater to, as weird as it sounds. Muffinpox fucked around with this message at 07:04 on Mar 19, 2011 |
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Mar 19, 2011 06:56
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TurboLuvah posted:This is a naive way to look at 550+hp RWD car Really? I'm not talking about anything other than wife drivability factor. These cars are easily drivable by people without a lot of experience driving high performance RWD cars and I'd let my fiance drive a CTS-V anytime. She drives my Mustang without issue and 10 years ago I would've laughed at you if you told me I'd let the girl I was with drive around my 400 horsepower mustang.
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Mar 19, 2011 16:08
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CharlesM posted:Maybe it's stupid but I honestly love the sound of a V8 vs a turbo V6... This is what it is for me too honestly. When I was car shopping my contenders were a Mustang GT and a Genesis Coupe. There were a lot of things I preferred about the Genesis Coupe but I couldn't stop thinking about how the Mustang sounded and bought it a few days later. To this day there are few cars whose engine notes I prefer to mine.
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Mar 19, 2011 17:29
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Industrial posted:This is what it is for me too honestly. When I was car shopping my contenders were a Mustang GT and a Genesis Coupe. There were a lot of things I preferred about the Genesis Coupe but I couldn't stop thinking about how the Mustang sounded and bought it a few days later. To this day there are few cars whose engine notes I prefer to mine. The Mustang sound is a definitely unique, I can always tell when a Mustang is coming by the sound it makes. I don't even have to turn around to know its a Stang. dont get me wrong, other cars have there own sound but you have to fine tune your ear for it.
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Mar 19, 2011 17:58
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Industrial posted:This is what it is for me too honestly. When I was car shopping my contenders were a Mustang GT and a Genesis Coupe. There were a lot of things I preferred about the Genesis Coupe but I couldn't stop thinking about how the Mustang sounded and bought it a few days later. To this day there are few cars whose engine notes I prefer to mine. My main reason for eventually dismissing the genesis coupe was that it seemed to be a poor value for the cost. In fact, that was my deciding factor when considering all of the Japanese/Korean sport models. That, and they absolutely do not believe in manual transmissions over there.
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Mar 19, 2011 18:29
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Just TT the 5.0 and call it the GT500. Use the tagline from the V6 ecoboost; efficiency of a V6, power of a V8, and swap it up to 8/10. V6 base, TTV6 and V8 GT (options), and TTV8 in the 500. Maximum parts sharing.
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Mar 19, 2011 19:56
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I put my money where my mouth is and bought parts for my baby! I got a Panhard Bar and XD Adjustable Lower Control Arms. The XD's are a little overkill for my car, but they where only $30 more. Maximum Motorsports Suspension Mods FTW!!!!  (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Mar 19, 2011 20:53
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kalvick posted:FTW!!!! You registered in 2001. Really?
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Mar 20, 2011 23:06
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CombatWombat posted:You registered in 2001. Really? Dont you be hatin' on the playa', hate the game.
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Mar 21, 2011 00:08
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kronix posted:Really? I'm not talking about anything other than wife drivability factor. These cars are easily drivable by people without a lot of experience driving high performance RWD cars and I'd let my fiance drive a CTS-V anytime. She drives my Mustang without issue and 10 years ago I would've laughed at you if you told me I'd let the girl I was with drive around my 400 horsepower mustang. Well, yeah now that you put it that way I understand what you meant, that clarification helped
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Mar 21, 2011 04:54
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Aw, man. See what happens when all this negativity gets brought in here? Everyone just chill and watch what happens when you stick a Procharger at 7psi on a Coyote 5.0. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=agJqFAOoSHM&hd=1 10.68 @ 128
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Mar 21, 2011 05:43
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frozenphil posted:Aw, man. See what happens when all this negativity gets brought in here? Everyone just chill and watch what happens when you stick a Procharger at 7psi on a Coyote 5.0. It looks like he's also running that new Boss intake manifold and 4.10's plus the standard exhaust stuff. There's a guy over on another forum who just installed the Boss intake manifold on a NA car but he hasn't posted numbers. As someone who's never going to boost my own car, I'm really interested to see what kind of NA numbers you can put up.
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Mar 21, 2011 13:22
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kronix posted:It looks like he's also running that new Boss intake manifold and 4.10's plus the standard exhaust stuff. There's a guy over on another forum who just installed the Boss intake manifold on a NA car but he hasn't posted numbers. As someone who's never going to boost my own car, I'm really interested to see what kind of NA numbers you can put up. Yeah, I didn't mention the other stuff because they add maybe 50hp total. Several people have posted numbers on the Boss intake over at modular fords. It seems to do exactly what you'd expect a short runner intake manifold to do; lose power everywhere except for a window of about a thousand RPM at the very top where it keeps making power instead of laying over like the factory intake. Should be nice for a power adder car or a race car, but outside of that I wouldn't recommend it. Evo has run a 10.97 @ 124 N/A with their shop car. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c62zJ-4Bo48
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Mar 21, 2011 15:21
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Can any of you guys who have bought Mustangs recently share how much you were able to wrangle off of MSRP for the cars?
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Mar 21, 2011 18:29
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My Mustang was about 35k MSRP. Premium GT with 19 inch wheels and a 3.55 rear. I don't remember invoice but I remember I paid it +500 plus factory incentives which was 1500 *PLUS* if you ordered a Mustang brochure online and said you were looking to buy within 30 days they sent you a coupon for a $750 rebate. All in all I think I walked out paying about between 29 and 30k before tax and title.
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Mar 21, 2011 18:33
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I got mine for 2k off sticker, which was pretty good as no dealers here were willing to move much off of sticker for the 2011's last spring.
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Mar 21, 2011 22:29
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