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I would place Kavanaugh Chaotic Neutral or Lawfully Evil. He started off as Lawfully Neutral but he dropped pretty quickly, at least in my eyes.
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Mar 20, 2011 23:34
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TUS posted:I would place Kavanaugh Chaotic Neutral or Lawfully Evil. He started off as Lawfully Neutral but he dropped pretty quickly, at least in my eyes. Definitely He was especially heading down the rabbit hole towards the end there. Makes you wonder what would have happened had he gotten away with it. I'd say he was originally the definition of lawful neutral (throwing his partner to IAD and filing charges against his wife, it's like Judge Dredd) so I bet it would have eventually driven him crazy Tale-Tale heart style. I think of him as LN since he turned himself in (albeit while the noose was tightening), which is the ultimate allegiance to lawfulness and seemed like himself again once he got away from the Mackey case
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Mar 20, 2011 23:52
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I loving love it when people put TV show characters into their alignment. It reminds me of that chart of characters in The Wire and what alignment they fit into.
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Mar 21, 2011 00:11
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I always think of the Batman alignment chart with 9 Batmen. You should try it. It's actually a lot of fun. Complex shows are the best since there's no way characters are going to fit snugly into those 9 molds. The challenge promotes exploration of characters/characterization using dynamics you might not have otherwise. Just a pretty neat, fun, little tool for character study. Have some Mad Men chart discussion... http://www.badassdigest.com/2010/12/06/the-mad-men-dd-alignment-chart-may-be-sexist
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Mar 21, 2011 00:59
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EvilTobaccoExec posted:Have some Mad Men chart discussion... http://www.badassdigest.com/2010/12/06/the-mad-men-dd-alignment-chart-may-be-sexist That's awesome as I love Mad Men too. I looked for a Breaking Bad alignment chart to no avail though, I'm disappointed. I'm afraid to look for an official The Shield alignment chart for fear of spoilers. Guess I'll just go through all my favorite shows and search them out.  Edit: Watching Ep 8 of S5 now. God damnit they're trying to make me like Kavanaugh, and it's kind of working. Drewsky fucked around with this message at 17:17 on Mar 21, 2011 |
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Mar 21, 2011 04:18
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IRQ posted:I just watched the season 5 finale and
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Mar 21, 2011 21:19
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EvilTobaccoExec posted:It's nerd time. I got bored and started thinking about where characters would fit on an alignment chart.  Also holy poo poo I just saw Season 3 Episode 5 titled "Mum" and Aceveda... what happened to him just now oh my god
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Mar 22, 2011 01:54
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FearOfABlackKnob posted:What about Tavon? Snap. I knew I would forget someone, and I really like Tavon too (he'd be classified the same as Lem I'd think). About the season three event, I actually made a big post about that situation just the other day. Although it says S3 spoilers, I edited out the only reference to an event outside that episode so no worries. EvilTobaccoExec posted:Season 3 spoileraz.
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Mar 22, 2011 02:09
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I just finished up S5. loving awesome. The last quarter was so hard to watch, I saw it coming. gently caress Shane. I hate him.
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Mar 22, 2011 06:32
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Drewsky posted:I just finished up S5. loving awesome. The last quarter was so hard to watch, I saw it coming. Haha, aren't you glad you avoided that spoiler you lucky bastard?
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Mar 22, 2011 06:35
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Jerusalem posted:Haha, aren't you glad you avoided that spoiler you lucky bastard? Yes. The final scene between Shane and Lem was awful. I knew it was gonna happen, and by their body language, they both knew exactly what was gonna happen too. Also, I'm really sad if this is the end of Kavanaugh. Forest Whitaker was amazing.
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Mar 22, 2011 06:42
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drat, I was really hoping that Vic found the video of Aceveda going down on that guy So he could blackmail him for more free reign. Edit: Holy poo poo I can't believe Dutch strangled a cat 
FearOfABlackKnob fucked around with this message at 09:53 on Mar 22, 2011 |
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Mar 22, 2011 09:19
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I made an alignment chart for the show based on the previous discussion. I don't remember much specific lines since it's a year I watched it, so anyone want to help with the quotes? SPOILERS, kind of I think. Put the quotes in spoilers too. http://i.imgur.com/AuQdc.jpg
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Mar 22, 2011 18:14
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Just watched the premiere of S6. This show is just not letting up. I think I'm going to have to buy this series. It's too good not to own.
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Mar 22, 2011 19:46
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DarkCrawler posted:I made an alignment chart for the show based on the previous discussion. I don't remember much specific lines since it's a year I watched it, so anyone want to help with the quotes? That looks about right to me. This season is definitely worth buying. I even have two copies of S1, one's even sealed still. I pondered selling/giving/returning it but then I thought, no don't do that. If the open one gets marred one day, I will have a backup. Heh.
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Mar 22, 2011 20:12
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Aceveda has my favorite line in the entire show, it was from either season 1 or 2 when the Brotherhood of Islam people stage a protest in the police station. I unfortunately do not remember the exact lead up quote but it is something like this: Brotherhood Guy: "This police department is the dermis on the infection that is this city." Aceveda: "Can you be more specific....about the dermis?" There's something about his delivery of this line that is simultaneously validating and mocking which cracks me up every time. It is the perfect expression of political correctness while simultaneously making it clear that you think someone is a complete idiot.
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Mar 22, 2011 22:30
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Just finished binging through this series. Holy poo poo, what a show. My new favorite show ever. My favorite character was Ronnie I really wanted him to get away somehow in the end. That end scene between him and Vic broke my heart. Goddamn you Vic.
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Mar 23, 2011 00:46
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Wow gently caress those two for not helping Vic out with his youngest kid's autism. Bullshit. (This is regarding episode 12 of the third season).
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Mar 23, 2011 03:06
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The one thing in retrospect that I was somewhat disappointed in was the lack of screen time for (SPOILERS AHEAD REGARDING FINAL SEASON) Acaveda. Don't get me wrong. I liked what they gave him in the final season and I like how he was continuing to climb the political ladder in LA but I always was a big fan of the 'enemy of my enemy is my friend' thing with Vic and Acaveda. The bottom line is he knew Vic was dirty and hated him for it, but he couldn't help but often work with him. They definitely explored their relationship in the final season but I wish they could have done more. It's mostly just fan boy longing for something that never happened, but none the less...I just wish they explored it more. I miss this show.
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Mar 23, 2011 07:50
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soggybagel posted:The one thing in retrospect that I was somewhat disappointed in was the lack of screen time for (SPOILERS AHEAD REGARDING FINAL SEASON) Acaveda. Don't get me wrong. I liked what they gave him in the final season and I like how he was continuing to climb the political ladder in LA but I always was a big fan of the 'enemy of my enemy is my friend' thing with Vic and Acaveda. The bottom line is he knew Vic was dirty and hated him for it, but he couldn't help but often work with him. They definitely explored their relationship in the final season but I wish they could have done more. It's mostly just fan boy longing for something that never happened, but none the less...I just wish they explored it more. FINAL SEASON SPOILERS, SUPER-COOL CATS ONLY What sort of additional situation would you have liked? Not to put you on the spot by having you rewrite The Shield, just curious. It seemed pretty perfectly structured to me with another classic partners-competitors switch off. Seven had them plotting together initially with the blackmail box, occasionally butting heads about trusting each other (especially when Aceveda takes the box and decides to turn it in on his own), and directly facing off against each other (trying to win Pezuela over to get in with ICE). Both agreed to "respect each others endgame" but it was another little Aceveda flip, giving us Mackey's "What happened to respecting each other's endgame?" And the final bust still had their uneasy endgame truce active where Mackey got his deal and Aceveda got his press credit. While we're talking end game, Season 6 spoilers (entire) The Hiatt plotline never gets enough (any?) love. I could see people disliking it or being thrown off with this new guy being introduced so late into the game and them not actually having him take over but get washed him out, but it really was this perfect story showcasing so many things: Mackey's corrosive nature (corrupting Hiatt within a matter of weeks) and Machiavellian orchestration of the situation to push him out, a completely new situation to the show where The Strike team belonged to someone else and expanded(and we also got some amazing Mackey as he backseat drove everything), and an example of how even in the world of The Shield someone being able to accomplish what Mackey does is extremely rare (maybe Hiatt could have succeed without Vic's pressure, but his street knowledge and ability was riffled with incompetence, driven to destructive focus by Mackey's subtle suggestions and example of bravado). Oh god, and Billings getting revenge on Dutch by manipulating Hiatt and Tina into loving, then luring Dutch to her house to see. gently caress that was amazing. Billings is the poo poo too. EvilTobaccoExec fucked around with this message at 09:22 on Mar 23, 2011 |
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Mar 23, 2011 08:58
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DarkCrawler posted:I made an alignment chart for the show based on the previous discussion. I don't remember much specific lines since it's a year I watched it, so anyone want to help with the quotes? Looking real good, super nice image quality. Two thoughts; that Lem picture looks out of place with "THE" in it, and the Armadillo picture is wonderfully menacing knowing where it came from but it's difficult to tell it's him initially with no scars and abnormal lighting . Might even consider Antwon instead since his role was larger (15 eps over 3 seasons) while Armadillo was only in 4 episodes (yet his brilliantly villainous presence made it seem longer). EDIT - just realized Ronnie why Ronnie seemed off, it's picture from the era without his trademarked beard. But that's just being super picky, that's a pretty cool photo of him regardless. If you need any screencaps, I have the DVDS. Although anyone who knows how to get better quality screencaps than going through VLC can probably be more help. Looked up some quote sources. Good: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0286486/quotes Better: http://www.tvloop.com/the-shield/show/quotes/all/?ord=date Best: http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/The_Shield Hell of a lot of great ones. They are definitely more not listed so any watchers coming across stuff they like should post 'em (even ones that don't fit). I know I'd enjoy reading them. These are the ones that I think would work best (especially the first 6) for each character. I spent way too much time doing this, but hell, at least I'm pretty confident in these recommendations and enjoyed the process. Serious Alignment Quotes (best character representation to weakest roughly, IMO) Kavanaugh: What I do is stop cops from breaking the rules. I can’t stop them if I can’t stop myself. Ronnie: I’m not going to jail for Shane. And I’m not going to jail for you either! (NOT EXACT, the real one sounds better but I can’t find the actual word-for-word quote. But I’m gonna find it though, because it’s Ronnie right down to his DNA) Vic: You think I’m a cop killer? Maybe I am. You’re a cop… right? That means you just stepped onto an entirely new playing field. For your sake, I hope you know the rules of the game. Armadillo: Every scar is a victory. This is just my biggest. Lem: You guys, you guys are the only family I got, alright? I'm not gonna let any of us go to prison. Aceveda: I’m asking that we each respect the others endgame. (OR) Aceveda: Learn to do what I say and we'll be just fine. Shane: So, we cause a triple murder before breakfast, start a race war before dinner - that's uh, that's a pretty good day. Dutch: If you're so special, how come a lowly civil servant like me just caught you? Antwon: Claudette: You mean to tell me this entire house would rather me pack up and leave, rather than look into this? Fun Alignment Quotes: (ideas for an alternate joking-orientated one, no spoilers here) Vic: Just attack it like you're hungry. Like the wolf. Shane: WE. KILLED. A. KCOP. Kavanaugh: This guy... this guy is just pissing... he's pissing all over us. He's pissing on you. What does it taste like? Chief, what does it taste like, 'cause you know what, it tastes like piss to me! Antwon: Now... what were you sayin' about my friend of the family human being son? Armadillo: Sometimes… life isn’t fair. Lem: We're gonna all crash and burn because of you! I mean, Christ, dude, Amy's not even that hot! Claudette: They're too busy trying to plot how to hang me out to dry for being a racist. Deflect attention from their Al-Qaeda thing not panning out. Ronnie: You don't dry clean oriental rugs! Dutch: Pussy said yes plenty. Aceveda: You're going to free a murderer so his mob boss can kill him? EvilTobaccoExec fucked around with this message at 10:05 on Mar 23, 2011 |
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Mar 23, 2011 09:42
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And because I can't post in this thread without making three posts in a row, these are all the good quotes I copied over from those sites as pretty good sumations of the characters or funny lines, even if some don't fit the alignment themes. Figured I might as well post them since I spent time compiling them also. Some pretty good alternatives (favorites are towards the top, other than big spoiler block, I got lazy) Claudette: Right now Vic Mackey may look like a mighty big catch to you. Do the smart thing, son. Cut bait. Claudette: What happened today was bullshit. I don’t know exactly what this puzzle looks like yet, but the pieces I saw were pretty goddamn ugly. I have never interfered with how you run your team, or how you run for office. I get assigned a case, I’m gonna find the truth. And if I have to go through both of you… I’m gonna get it. Dutch: Walter Chatton was a contemporary of Occam, disputed the razor. Coined his own anti-razor. Chatton believed that the world was too complex; there are too many variables to assume the simplest answer was always the correct one. Shane: How’s your jaw feeling? Shane: I'm not doing anything that we weren't doing before. I'm just pumping things up a level. Vic: Nah, good cop and bad cop left for the day, I'm a different kinda cop. Kavanaugh: I fed her the story. Coerced her statement, planted the evidence in Mackey’s house, and I framed a guilty man. Kavanaugh: Why is it that the guy with the conscience always gets caught holding the bag? And we don't ever want that guy, do we? We want the guy that put him into motion. Kavanaugh: And that ladies and gentleman, is my finale encore. Making the great Vic Mackey think I’m everyone and everywhere, responsible for all the worst crimes against humanity. Ronnie: Vic, it's done. It's all set up. We're never gonna get another chance this clean, you know it. Aceveda: You really thought after everything I wouldn't get the last word? Vic: Jacksons too young to be a witness. Vic: You don’t understand. We’re not the typical lowlifes that you represent. We’re a family. We’re surviving this together, or we go down together. Vic: I've done worse. Shane’s note: “the guilty ones are me and Vic. Vic led, but I kept following. I don't think one's worse than the other, but we made each other into something worse than our individual selves. I wish I'd never met him.” Shane: The truth is like grits, you can't serve it up plain, you got to put a little salt on it. Mostly just fun quotes or really memorable lines (should be no spoilers here either since they're taken out of context) Danny: Guy gets shot in the ghetto.....Detectives never turn up.....Does the crime really happen? Antwon Mitchell: From now on, when I say, "Suck my dick", you say, "You want me to lick your balls, Daddy?" Vic: How much memory does that thing got? Kavanaugh: Are you happy now, Detective Mackey? Kavanaugh: No wonder these guys get away with murder, the Captain's more concerned with the sandwich machine than he is with personnel Aceveda: This doesn't mean I like you.... Try screwing me on this, I'll bury you! Dutch: I am not familiar with the “Dickin’ Grannies” series. Dutch: [reading what Sean wrote on the board] Detective Wagenbach craves respect, fantasizes about being well liked, yet shows no outward manifestation of his low self-esteem. Feels ignored, unappreciated, inadequate with women. Dutch: Uh, because you like crack? Ronnie: What happens when they run out of feet and realize it was an outside job? Vic: The law only allows us so much latitude. These guys have rights too. I'm a cop. I have to honor that. Shane: I'm married. That means no stickin', just lickin'. & Shane: Eatin ain’t cheatin. Shane: Yeah? But you know with all that money, all that power, at the end of the day, you're still just a friend of the family! With a human being friend of the family son! And where's the respect in that?! HUH? Where's the respect in that?! Rawling: Either it works or it doesn't. To make exceptions, to put a prettier face on it....sounds more like Aceveda than me. EvilTobaccoExec fucked around with this message at 10:52 on Mar 23, 2011 |
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Mar 23, 2011 09:55
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You know what I really loved about the Ronnie character in the show? finale spoilers he was so calm and collected for the entire show, kind of just a fly on the wall while Vic and Shane and Lem were way more proactive about everything. Super cool, and the one time we finally see emotion from him, real crazy emotion, is the very end getting arrested when he sees what being around Vic has done to him.
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Mar 23, 2011 09:55
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BlackJosh posted:You know what I really loved about the Ronnie character in the show? My other favorite Ronnie bit is his weird decent into destruction in season 6 where we see his causual approach to murdering people, especially the Armenian hitman he shoots in the hotel room that Shane makes footless. After he murders him, he just has that pinpoint focus, mile long stare that's so intense that even Vic has to comment on.
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Mar 23, 2011 10:10
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On a lighter note, another great Ronnie moment is when he reveals that the girl he was bringing back to his place to sleep with was a complete stranger he'd only met that night. Somebody (Billings?) comments on it and he replies something like,"Maybe I'll give you some tips some day  "
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Mar 23, 2011 11:02
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And another great Ronnie moment? Late in the show (forget which season, maybe 6 or 7) where he's out helping the regular detectives handle a case. Homeboy gets poo poo done.
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Mar 23, 2011 13:03
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Alignment chart with quotes http://i.imgur.com/rJNoV.jpg Alignment chart with quotes and Antwon, couldn't decide which was a better villain. http://i.imgur.com/HwqCD.jpg
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Mar 23, 2011 14:08
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I'm surprised at the lack of Cletus Van Damme in the joke-quotes section.
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Mar 23, 2011 15:43
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isk posted:And another great Ronnie moment? Late in the show (forget which season, maybe 6 or 7) where he's out helping the regular detectives handle a case. Homeboy gets poo poo done. This is a great Ronnie moment and also one of my favourite moments in the show. It shows how effective the Strike Team really is, which helps explain why they get away with so much poo poo. Ronnie is arguably the most "background" member of the team, but even when he is working on his own the rest of the barn is basically struggling to keep up with him. What's up with you alignment guys calling Vic lawful evil? Maybe I don't know what those things mean but he seems more like "chaotic neutral" to me?
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Mar 23, 2011 16:41
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I'm not sure how I feel about the direction Season 4 is taking. There is no Strike Team... Vic is sort of wandering around. I've only seen the first episode but I really hope poo poo will start to happen.
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Mar 23, 2011 17:31
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FearOfABlackKnob posted:I'm not sure how I feel about the direction Season 4 is taking. There is no Strike Team... Vic is sort of wandering around. I've only seen the first episode but I really hope poo poo will start to happen. poo poo happens, sir. poo poo happens.
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Mar 23, 2011 18:45
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EvilTobaccoExec posted:character alignments Am I the only one who caught that you listed Vic's autistic children as chaotic evil? Hahaha, what the gently caress?
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Mar 23, 2011 19:07
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FearOfABlackKnob posted:I'm not sure how I feel about the direction Season 4 is taking. There is no Strike Team... Vic is sort of wandering around. I've only seen the first episode but I really hope poo poo will start to happen. It's pretty safe to say that they tie up pretty much -------------everything----------- by the end of the series.
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Mar 23, 2011 19:18
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Verbal posted:Am I the only one who caught that you listed Vic's autistic children as chaotic evil? Hahaha, what the gently caress? I noticed that myself, and had the same reaction. Seriously, what the gently caress.
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Mar 23, 2011 19:23
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when worlds collide posted:I noticed that myself, and had the same reaction. Seriously, what the gently caress. I wondered about this too, haha.
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Mar 23, 2011 19:34
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FearOfABlackKnob posted:I'm not sure how I feel about the direction Season 4 is taking. There is no Strike Team... Vic is sort of wandering around. I've only seen the first episode but I really hope poo poo will start to happen. you pm me back as the season goes. You're in for a white knuckle ride and you've just seen the slow burn at the start.
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Mar 23, 2011 19:36
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FearOfABlackKnob posted:I'm not sure how I feel about the direction Season 4 is taking. There is no Strike Team... Vic is sort of wandering around. I've only seen the first episode but I really hope poo poo will start to happen. Don't you worry now. Just don't you worry 'bout a thing.
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Mar 23, 2011 20:20
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when worlds collide posted:I noticed that myself, and had the same reaction. Seriously, what the gently caress. autistic people are evil, and due to their disability, chaotic. Everyone knows this.
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Mar 23, 2011 20:23
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EvilTobaccoExec posted:
Wasn't that the first episode of season 7? And in response to my Season 7 wishes regarding Acaveda and Vic, I don't know. I think its maybe that we got so little of their rivalry in seasons 5 and 6 that in my mind I could envision an entire season dedicated to them just pissing each other off again. I can't really elaborate because I honestly loved the final season and was fine where it went, just that I really had an affinity to the cat and mouse game they played in the early seasons.
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Mar 23, 2011 20:23
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BlackJosh posted:autistic people are evil, and due to their disability, chaotic. Everyone knows this. Well, I could argue that all children are evil. It's wrong to single out people for their disabilities. 
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Mar 23, 2011 20:50
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