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The Clans sound like a bunch of sperglords with giant robots.
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Mar 24, 2011 22:45
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Trast posted:The Clans sound like a bunch of sperglords with giant robots. Pretty much - they're a 'warrior' society designed by a madman, with the intent of crippling their ability to actually make war in any sustainable sense. The Clans were doomed from the start - once the Inner Sphere really gets it's poo poo together, sheer numbers (and a working understanding of logistics) makes the end result inevitable.
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Mar 24, 2011 22:49
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Kenlon posted:Simple - you're at a greater disadvantage at range than you are up close. The Zeus doesn't have the ammo to take bad shots and hope to plink away at the enemy - you need to get inside where you can bring as much pain to bear as quickly as possible. Hopefully, the Clanners will gently caress up and let you get in physical combat range, but even without that, you're better off up close. I'd probably agree if the goal was destruction of the enemy, but I think given that the objective is survival, they want to seek one or two long-range engagements with target numbers as high as possible to extend the fight. Move 5 hexes, run through a building, or crash through the woods, just stay at as long and obscured a range as possible and hope they don't roll 9s or 10s or whatever. You're not going to hit poo poo, firing an AC/5 for 11s or something, but you'll survive longer than if you close and try to knife-fight a Clanner.
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Mar 24, 2011 22:52
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Bah! A Trueborn warrior needs such handicaps to make things challenging. Just means more glory, quiaff?
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Mar 24, 2011 22:56
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Kenlon posted:Pretty much - they're a 'warrior' society designed by a madman, with the intent of crippling their ability to actually make war in any sustainable sense. Also, their system is predicated on the idea that the most capable individual combatant is the one most qualified to lead an entire society.
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Mar 24, 2011 23:14
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Defiance Industries posted:Also, their system is predicated on the idea that the most capable individual combatant is the one most qualified to lead an entire society. Cain Velasquez for president.
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Mar 24, 2011 23:22
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So, I decided to try out that Neveron game cause of this thread, is anyone playing it, can tell me how to do anything? Supposedly the first quest is bugged and I have no clue what I'm supposed to do armed with only a Jeep.
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Mar 24, 2011 23:28
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I had a weird dream last night that the light mech (the wolfhound?) got jibbed on the first turn by a clanner. It was a weird loving dream
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Mar 24, 2011 23:36
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Mezzanon posted:I had a weird dream last night that the light mech (the wolfhound?) got jibbed on the first turn by a clanner. Sounds more like prophecy to me.
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Mar 24, 2011 23:39
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The Lyrans won't survive 20 turns - the game will be over by turn 15 because they'll have killed every clanner on the field! At least, that's how it should go down, if you do things right and sweep cunningly down upon them to punch and kick and short-range Alpha them. Also, do the clans not do infantry or tanks? I know about <REDACTED>, but there's no way they've got enough of them to fill the same roll as an occupation army or provide the massed fire of entrenched artillery or waves of tanks. When people talk about how the clans were bound to lose due to manpower concerns, is it because their system of war totally discounts the importance of support elements?
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Mar 24, 2011 23:50
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Dolash posted:When people talk about how the clans were bound to lose due to manpower concerns, is it because their system of war totally discounts the importance of support elements? ding ding ding
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Mar 25, 2011 00:05
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I'm hoping this scenario turns into an instant bloodbath of horrifying TACs. I don't care which side goes down, that's just the result I'm rooting for. The faster, the better.
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Mar 25, 2011 00:05
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ZeeToo posted:I'm hoping this scenario turns into an instant bloodbath of horrifying TACs. Five machinegun TACs in a row! 
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Mar 25, 2011 00:11
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SageSepth posted:So, I decided to try out that Neveron game cause of this thread, is anyone playing it, can tell me how to do anything? Supposedly the first quest is bugged and I have no clue what I'm supposed to do armed with only a Jeep. I played it briefly. Don't waste your time. It's all the bad elements of a browser game combined with the worst parts of EVE.
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Mar 25, 2011 00:18
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ShadowDragon8685 posted:Sounds more like prophecy to me.
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Mar 25, 2011 00:18
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Kenlon posted:The Clans were doomed from the start - once the Inner Sphere really gets it's poo poo together, sheer numbers (and a working understanding of logistics) makes the end result inevitable. So let me get this straight: Inner Sphere forces = Not much strength in each single unit, but have far more units than the opposition. A few warriors of legendary ability amongst a host of rabble given weapons and told to fight. The inevitable winners of the conflict in question. Clan forces = Fewer units, but single unit strength is high. Many warriors of legendary ability. Follow something of a moral code with how battle is conducted. Lose the conflict in question. I get the feeling that I've heard this story before 
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Mar 25, 2011 00:20
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Kenlon posted:Pretty much - they're a 'warrior' society designed by a madman, with the intent of crippling their ability to actually make war in any sustainable sense. Seriously. Nevermind that warfare without logistics is insane their whole society sounds like a trip through bat country.
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Mar 25, 2011 00:27
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Trast posted:Seriously. Nevermind that warfare without logistics is insane their whole society sounds like a trip through bat country. Yep. Like I said, a society devised by a madman.
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Mar 25, 2011 00:53
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Dolash posted:Also, do the clans not do infantry or tanks? I know about <REDACTED>, but there's no way they've got enough of them to fill the same roll as an occupation army or provide the massed fire of entrenched artillery or waves of tanks. When people talk about how the clans were bound to lose due to manpower concerns, is it because their system of war totally discounts the importance of support elements? They do use infantry/tanks. Clan Hell's Horses especially understands the value of conventional units, what with their founder being a member of the SLDF's 35th Infantry Division.
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Mar 25, 2011 01:21
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Felime posted:Intentionally moving out of weapons range or LOS is one of those things that invalidates a duel and is going to raise clan Ire.
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Mar 25, 2011 01:27
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Arquinsiel posted:You're not getting what I'm aiming for. Think of the Wolfhound as a "bid" and then work out how you'd counter that as the Clan commander. Depends on the clan. Steel Viper? They'd react with explosive contemptuousness, probably sending two or three too-fast-to-evade Mediums/Heavies to go and crush the drat thing.
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Mar 25, 2011 01:28
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Arquinsiel posted:You're not getting what I'm aiming for. Think of the Wolfhound as a "bid" and then work out how you'd counter that as the Clan commander. Kill it viciously for being so arrogant?
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Mar 25, 2011 01:28
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Arquinsiel posted:Guys.... metagame tactics here: All that will remain of the Wolfhound will be a pair of legs...if it is lucky; The rest of the mech will have vaporized (how? if my guesses are right, 6+ Clan ER-PPCs, 1 Gauss Rifle, 2 ER Large Lasers, 2 Clan LBX-10 ACs, plus a boatload of weapons on the other mechs.).
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Mar 25, 2011 01:38
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Vipers of Somerset: Tactical Update 2 Movement Phase: Random Ace Beta: B2 Unknown Medium Random Ace Gamma: G4 Unknown Assault Combat Phase: None End Phase None Physical Combat Phase: None End Phase: None “Sir, they seem to be broadcasting unencrypted,” Samantha announced quietly into the comms, but her voice was uncertain. “But…” “Patch me in,” Rossi grunted. Samantha reached, toggled the switch in her Zeus’ cockpit. The Cyclops was a far better commo-hub, but Rossi had been unwilling to give up his heirloom machine to a mere aide, even when the Lyran Commonwealth had offered him an Atlas fresh off of Defiance Industries’ lines in trade. Samantha wasn’t sure she’d have made the same choice. Clanners filled her commlines as she and the Colonel both listened. They weren’t encrypted, but they may as well have been. “—multcon, cor alpha-six-niner.” “Magscan masked: civstructs. Project high caspot.” “Ha, batloc is their choice, quiaff? Civcas expected.” “Neg, mincas,” a familiar voice called. Samantha blinked, could the Steel Viper ‘Star Colonel’ be here? “Khan’s orders. Prior miltargs. Flanking expected.” “Encon conf. Banshee. Engaging.” “Point Delta, Point assistreq quiaff?” “Neg, Star Commander. Sitcon positive. Sintarg.” “Point Beta. Moving to suppos.” “Aff, ack.” Rossi cut the channel. “… I thought you said they weren’t encrypted,” he said darkly. Samantha bit her lip. “They’re not, sir. This isn’t encryption, it’s just… gibberish. Did they say something about a Banshee—” "I am Mechwarrior Tiegen of Clan Steel Viper,” A young woman’s voice cut—she was blanketing the entire comm. spectrum. “I pilot the Beta Star’s noble Battle Cobra. I invoke the ritual of zellbrigen and challenge the pilot of the Banshee near the large water tanks to a contest of warriors. In this solemn matter, let no one interfere!" “Sir, I think they spotted me,” Sergeant Major Kempner grunted sarcastically. “Looks like a damned low-end medium. I guess a snake is a snake, in the end. Permission to ignore the little bastard?” “This could work to our advantage,” Rossi announced quietly. “I don’t like the odds of this engagement, but if they’re going to approach piecemeal…” He paused and Samantha’s fingers hovered over her Zeus’ firing stud as she waited for the order to concentrate fire. With all the tall buildings, she didn’t much like her chances of hitting with an indirect attack, but she’d follow orders. She always did. “Use your best judgment,” Rossi decided, a bit indecisively Sam thought to herself. Colonel Steiner would’ve actually made a decision. Enemy Forces / Turn 0 movement! B1 Unknown Medium 1 : Walks 5 to 0818! B2 Unknown Medium 2: Waiting to Move! B3 Unknown Heavy 1: Walks 3 hexes to 0811! B4 Unknown Heavy 2: Walks 1 hex to 0610! B5 Unknown Heavy 3: Walks 2 hexes to ????! G1 Unknown Assault 1: Remained Stationary! G2 Unknown Assault 2: Remained Stationary! G3 Unknown Assault 3: Remained Stationary! G4 Unknown Assault 4: Waiting to Move! G5 Unknown Assault 5: Remained Stationary! Mission Objectives Defeat Beta Star! (Partial Victory) Survive! (1/20 Turns) (Total Victory)  Ace Note: Previous end position will be in black, current position will be in green! Map Note: A height 1 tunnel extends from hex 0912 to 1213. It is large enough to accommodate the Rommel, but not large enough for a Battlemech. Due to heat concerns, the Rommel may not fire its weapons while within the tunnel. Special Guest Note: Tank front arc is the triangle. L* CP-1-Z Cyclops Weight: 90 tons (Assault) HD A(S): 9/9 (3/3) LT A(S): 20/20 (19/19) LT R A(S): 8/8 CT A(S): 30/30 (29/29) CT R A(S): 11/11 RT A(S): 20/20 (19/19) RT R A(S): 8/8 LA A(S): 10/10 (15/15) RA A(S): 10/10 (15/15) LL A(S): 17/17 (19/19) RL A(S): 17/17 (19/19) Heat: 0/30 Overheat Penalty: None Heat Sinks: 12 Movement: 4/6/0 Mechwarrior: Pilot 5, Gunnery 4 Mechwarrior Name: Colonel Aldo Rossi Mechwarrior Player: WarLocke Mechwarrior Status: OK! Armament: Autocannon 20 – RT (Heat: 8, Ammo: 20, Range: (L:9 M:6 S:3), Status: OK!) LRM 10 – LT (Heat: 4, Ammo: 12, Range: (L:21 M:14 S:7 Min:6), Status: OK!) Medium Laser – RA (Heat: 3, Range: (L:9 M:6 S:3), Status: OK!) Medium Laser – LA (Heat: 3, Range: (L:9 M:6 S:3), Status: OK!) SRM 4 – CT (Heat: 3, Ammo: 25, Range: (L:9 M:6 S:3), Status: OK!) Critical Damage: None! Notes: 2 hands L2 ZEU-6S Zeus Weight: 80 tons (Assault) HD A(S): 9/9 (3/3) LT A(S): 18/18 (17/17) LT R A(S): 6/6 CT A(S): 26/26 (25/25) CT R A(S): 9/9 RT A(S): 18/18 (17/17) RT R A(S): 6/6 LA A(S): 22/22 (13/13) RA A(S): 22/22 (13/13) LL A(S): 24/24 (17/17) RL A(S): 24/24 (17/17) Heat: 0/30 Overheat Penalty: None Heat Sinks: 17 Movement: 4/6/0 Mechwarrior: Pilot 5, Gunnery 4 Mechwarrior Name: Leutnant Samantha Clover Mechwarrior Player: Mukaikubo Mechwarrior Status: OK! Armament: Large Laser – LT (Heat: 8, Range: (L:15 M:10 S:5), Status: OK!) LRM 15 – RA (Heat: 5, Ammo: 8, Range: (L:21 M:14 S:7 Min:6), Status: OK!) Medium Laser (REAR) – LT(R) (Heat: 3, Range: (L:9 M:6 S:3), Status: OK!) Medium Laser – CT (Heat: 3, Range: (L:9 M:6 S:3), Status: OK!) Autocannon/5 – LA (Heat: 1, Ammo: 20, Range: (L: M: S: Min:), Status: OK!) Critical Damage: None! Notes: No hands L3 BNC-3S Banshee Weight: 95 tons (Assault) HD A(S): 9/9 (3/3) LT A(S): 30/30 (20/20) LT R A(S): 10/10 CT A(S): 40/40 (30/30) CT R A(S): 17/17 RT A(S): 30/30 (20/20) RT R A(S): 10/10 LA A(S): 21/21 (16/16) RA A(S): 21/21 (16/16) LL A(S): 26/26 (20/20) RL A(S): 26/26 (20/20) Heat: 0/30 Overheat Penalty: None Heat Sinks: 21 Movement: 3/5/0 Mechwarrior: Pilot 5, Gunnery 4 Mechwarrior Name: Staff Sergeant Major Gerhart von Kempner Mechwarrior Player: Angry_Ed Mechwarrior Status: OK! Armament: Autocannon/10 – LT (Heat: 3, Ammo: 20, Range: (L:15 M:10 S:5), Status: OK!) PPC – RT (Heat: 10, Range: (L:18 M:12 S:6 Min:3), Status: OK!) PPC – LA (Heat: 10, Range: (L:18 M:12 S:6 Min:3), Status: OK!) SRM 6 – RT (Heat: 4, Ammo: 15, Range: (L:9 M:6 S:3), Status: OK!) Medium Laser – RT (Heat: 3, Range: (L:9 M:6 S:3), Status: OK!) Medium Laser – RT (Heat: 3, Range: (L:9 M:6 S:3), Status: OK!) Medium Laser – RT (Heat: 3, Range: (L:9 M:6 S:3), Status: OK!) Medium Laser – RT (Heat: 3, Range: (L:9 M:6 S:3), Status: OK!) Small Laser – HD (Heat: 1, Range: (L:3 M:2 S:1), Status: OK!) Small Laser – CT (Heat: 1, Range: (L:3 M:2 S:1), Status: OK!) Critical Damage: None! Notes: 1 hand L4 WLF-1 Wolfhound Weight: 35 tons (Light) HD A(S): 9/9 (3/3) LT A(S): 11/11 (8/8) LT R A(S): 5/5 CT A(S): 16/16 (11/11) CT R A(S): 6/6 RT A(S): 11/11 (8/8) RT R A(S): 5/5 LA A(S): 12/12 (6/6) RA A(S): 12/12 (6/6) LL A(S): 16/16 (8/8) RL A(S): 16/16 (8/8) Heat: 0/30 Overheat Penalty: None Heat Sinks: 10 Movement: 6/9/0 Mechwarrior: Pilot 3, Gunnery 2 Mechwarrior Name: Corporal Richard Hunter Mechwarrior Player: Spencerb Mechwarrior Status: OK! Armament: Large Laser – RA (Heat: 8, Range: (L:15 M:10 S:5), Status: OK!) Medium Laser – RT (Heat: 3, Range: (L:9 M:6 S:3), Status: OK!) Medium Laser – CT (Heat: 3, Range: (L:9 M:6 S:3), Status: OK!) Medium Laser – LT (Heat: 3, Range: (L:9 M:6 S:3), Status: OK!) Medium Laser (REAR) – CT(R) (Heat: 3, Range: (L:9 M:6 S:3), Status: OK!) Critical Damage: None! Notes: 1 hand T1 Rommel Tank: Weight: 65 tons (Heavy) Front A(S): 40/40 (7/7) Left A(S): 39/39 (7/7) Right A(S): 39/39 (7/7) Turret A(S): 40/40 (7/7) Rear A(S): 26/26 (7/7) Movement: 4/6 Tracked Crew: Driving 5, Gunnery 4 Tank Crew Twelve: Sergeant Bonnie Hammer, Private Sarah Montesquieu, PFC John Blucher Player: Raverrn Motive System Damage: None! Critical Damage: None! Armament: Autocannon/20 – Turret (Ammo: 20, Range: (L:9 M:6 S:3), Status: OK!) LRM 5 – Turret (Ammo: 24, Range: (L:21 M:14 S:7 Min:6), Status: OK!) Small Laser – Front (Range: (L:3 M:2 S:1), Status: OK!) Notes: Enemy Status Beta Star B1 Battle Cobra Tonnage: 40 Target: L3 BNC-3S Banshee Critical Damage: None! Pilot Name: Mechwarrior Tiegan Pilot: Piloting 4, Gunnery 3 Heat: 0/30 Overheat Penalty: None! Armament: Unknown Notes: B2 Unknown Medium 2 Tonnage: 50 Target: Critical Damage: None! Pilot Name: ??? Pilot: Piloting 4, Gunnery 3 Heat: 0/30 Overheat Penalty: None! Armament: Unknown Notes: Equipped with ECM, becomes 'hidden' when out of Line of Sight! B3 Unknown Heavy 1 Tonnage: 60 Target: Critical Damage: None! Pilot Name: ??? Pilot: Piloting 4, Gunnery 3 Heat: 0/30 Overheat Penalty: None! Armament: Unknown Notes: B4 Unknown Heavy 2 Tonnage: 65 Target: Critical Damage: None! Pilot Name: ??? Pilot: Piloting 4, Gunnery 3 Heat: 0/30 Overheat Penalty: None! Armament: Unknown Notes: B5 Unknown Heavy 3 Tonnage: 65 Target: Critical Damage: None! Pilot Name: ??? Pilot: Piloting 4, Gunnery 3 Heat: 0/30 Overheat Penalty: None! Armament: Unknown Notes: Equipped with ECM, becomes 'hidden' when out of Line of Sight! Gamma Star G1 Unknown Assault Tonnage: 80 Target: None Possible! Critical Damage: None! Pilot Name: ??? Pilot: Piloting 2, Gunnery 1 Heat: 0/30 Overheat Penalty: None! Armament: Unknown Notes: G2 Unknown Assault Tonnage: 80 Target: None Possible! Critical Damage: None! Pilot Name: ??? Pilot: Piloting 4, Gunnery 3 Heat: 0/30 Overheat Penalty: None! Armament: Unknown Notes: G3 Unknown Assault Tonnage: 85 Target: None Possible! Critical Damage: None! Pilot Name: ??? Pilot: Piloting 4, Gunnery 3 Heat: 0/30 Overheat Penalty: None! Armament: Unknown Notes: G4 Unknown Assault Tonnage: 90 Target: None Possible! Critical Damage: None! Pilot Name: ??? Pilot: Piloting 4, Gunnery 3 Heat: 0/30 Overheat Penalty: None! Armament: Unknown Notes: G5 Unknown Assault Tonnage: 95 Target: None Possible! Critical Damage: None! Pilot Name: Star Colonel Dusk Pilot: Piloting 4, Gunnery 3 Heat: 0/30 Overheat Penalty: None! Armament: Unknown Notes: PoptartsNinja fucked around with this message at 04:08 on Mar 25, 2011 |
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Mar 25, 2011 01:45
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How many asprin did it take to get through all that clanlang?
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Mar 25, 2011 01:48
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Battle Cobra vs a Banshee. This might be one battle the Inner Sphere can win.
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Mar 25, 2011 01:49
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Maybe its the military but I think I actually understood most of it.
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Mar 25, 2011 01:50
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Awesome, awesome bit of fluffwork there, PTN. I picked it all up, I'm pretty sure, but I can imagine that would be hell to figure out just hearing it without some pretty extensive practice. I'd almost suggest accepting the duels but trying to negotiate dragging them out into a one-at-a-time affair to buy more time, maybe by limiting the duels to occur in a limited space.
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Mar 25, 2011 01:56
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Something just occurred to me: if the Clans are invading blind then they would think that Banshee is either a -3E or a -3Q, since those are the only pre-exodus variants. Their computers won't recognize a -3S as a known configuration. Likewise they won't know any of the Wolfhound's capabilities. This gives both machines one turn's worth of surprise, for whatever that is worth. I guess maybe more if the Banshee holds back it's extra guns and only uses a single PPC to start, but that is a dumb idea in this case.
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Mar 25, 2011 01:57
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It's just chopped off bits of multiple words mashed into one word. Not really that difficult to parse, if you ask me. But maybe basic english vocabulary is also Lostech.
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Mar 25, 2011 01:57
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The pilot of that Battle Cobra is suicidally ambitious. Clanners are good, I'll admit, but taking on something more than twice your size is...ill-advised.
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Mar 25, 2011 01:58
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I think it is: “—multcon, cor alpha-six-niner.” “Magscan masked: civstructs. Project high caspot.” Magnetic scanning is blocked by civilian structures. I think there is high casualty potential. “Ha, batloc is their choice, quiaff? Civcas expected.” Hah. Battle-location is their choice, right? Civilian casualties expected. “Neg, mincas,” a familiar voice called. Samantha blinked, could the Steel Viper ‘Star Colonel’ be here? “Khan’s orders. Prior miltargs. Flanking expected.” No, minimize casualties. Khan's orders. Prioritize military targets. Flanking expected. “Encon conf. Banshee. Engaging.” Enemy “Point Delta, Point assistreq quiaff?” [Battle Cobra], You require assistance, yes? “Neg, Star Commander. Sitcon positive. Sintarg.” No, commander. “Point Beta. Moving to suppos.” [Another mechwarrior, a heavy?]. Moving to support position “Aff, ack.” Aye, permission granted. EDIT: Added in LeschNyhan's suggestions. Slaan fucked around with this message at 02:20 on Mar 25, 2011 |
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Mar 25, 2011 02:01
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Defiance Industries posted:Something just occurred to me: if the Clans are invading blind then they would think that Banshee is either a -3E or a -3Q, since those are the only pre-exodus variants. Their computers won't recognize a -3S as a known configuration. Likewise they won't know any of the Wolfhound's capabilities. The invasion has been going on for a few months already, so they might already have prior experience with them.
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Mar 25, 2011 02:03
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landcollector posted:The pilot of that Battle Cobra is suicidally ambitious. Clanners are good, I'll admit, but taking on something more than twice your size is...ill-advised. That's kind of the point. You should always be in a situation where there is a real chance of losing, if you are a Clanner. The dude who won the bid to capture Kai Allard-Liao bid nothing but one set of clothing and a pair of boots, if I recall, so that there would be a chance Kai might defeat him. In this timeframe you would totally see mediums calling out Assaults, or Clan assaults calling out two or three machines at once.
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Mar 25, 2011 02:04
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That's the single most favorable one on one duel we could have come up with. I'm... hrm. See if we can stall the rest and accept. As for me, alternately if we want to go with Operation Focus Fire, I can walk to 1719 and have a 9-to-hit with my LRM 15, large laser, and autocannon/5. Just saying. To clarify: Those are not really great odds. Mukaikubo fucked around with this message at 02:07 on Mar 25, 2011 |
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Mar 25, 2011 02:05
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KnoxZone posted:The invasion has been going on for a few months already, so they might already have prior experience with them. Depends on if they have fought any other prestigious Lyran units. The -3S and Wolfhound are new and shiny and only go to the really cool kids at this point. They wouldn't see them roughing up militia and pirates.
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Mar 25, 2011 02:06
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Defiance Industries posted:That's kind of the point. You should always be in a situation where there is a real chance of losing, if you are a Clanner. The dude who won the bid to capture Kai Allard-Liao bid nothing but one set of clothing and a pair of boots, if I recall, so that there would be a chance Kai might defeat him. Also remember, the Battle Cobra is an omnimech. You'll have no idea what weapons its packing until it's fired them.
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Mar 25, 2011 02:08
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Defiance Industries posted:That's kind of the point. You should always be in a situation where there is a real chance of losing, if you are a Clanner. The dude who won the bid to capture Kai Allard-Liao bid nothing but one set of clothing and a pair of boots, if I recall, so that there would be a chance Kai might defeat him. Please elaborate? I would like to know more. (About the duel.)
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Mar 25, 2011 02:11
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Defiance Industries posted:That's kind of the point. You should always be in a situation where there is a real chance of losing, if you are a Clanner. The dude who won the bid to capture Kai Allard-Liao bid nothing but one set of clothing and a pair of boots, if I recall, so that there would be a chance Kai might defeat him. The Clan assaults situation I could understand, as they are murder machines. Mediums calling out assaults, though...Clanners are kind of dumb that way. Honor before reason, I guess?
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Mar 25, 2011 02:13
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| # ? Apr 27, 2024 22:34 |
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I got the following instead.Slaan posted:I think it is:
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Mar 25, 2011 02:14
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