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I think it would be cool if the Chandrian somehow turned out to be the good guys, but it's hard to argue for. Both the Amyr and the Chandrian are very morally ambiguous but it seems the Chandrian have more of an evil bent. The only way it could make sense (that I've come up with) is if when the world was split into two it was done to protect the humans. Perhaps the Amyr seek to reunite the two worlds and the Chandrian oppose it because it would destroy humanity. They kill anyone who gets in their way because better safe than sorry, they view them as enemies if it isn't intentional, and they've probably become warped from years of hiding from the Amyr and the other groups Haliax mentions. I'm too lazy to look for any proof of this right now, but I'm hoping there's something interesting that comes out of this series. Also I want Kvothe and Elodin just run around blasting stuff with their true names because I'm a nerd like that.
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Mar 23, 2011 20:18
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I think the Chandrian are going to be, if not the good guys, at least the less-evil alternative to the Amyr based on Nina's drawing. Despite drawing Cinder and Haliax, she referred to the Amyr as the "worst" and the one who was "ready to burn down the whole world."
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Mar 23, 2011 21:35
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The Chandrian ARE the Amyr!!
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Mar 23, 2011 22:48
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xwonderboyx posted:The Chandrian ARE the Amyr!! God I only hope Rothfuss is more creative than that. 
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Mar 23, 2011 23:35
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Haliax threatened Cinder with not protecting him from the Amyr, so maybe they're not one and the same, but what if the Amyr are really demons possessing the Chandrian. So when the Chandrian ran off instead of killing Kvothe, it wasn't because they were fleeing an external threat and didn't have time to kill him, it's because they fled from the rising internal urge to kill in order to avoid killing him. Which is why Kvothe never saw whatever they were running from! Also why Felurian said there were no human Amyr while Kvothe was sure there were, he was thinking the Amyr were the people when they are actually the demons within! I like this idea even less, but now we are immune to it because he couldn't possibly reuse an idea posted on a message board.
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Mar 24, 2011 00:16
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With the song Denna sang about how Lanre was betrayed, I'm fairly sure nothing is going to be black and white. Both have a history of killing anyone they want, just the Amyr are spun as arbiters of justice. My crackpot theory is the Adem are whats left of the Amyr, or the human portion of it. When Kvothe is answering questions about the Lethani, he mentions the Amyr and Vashet seems surprised. At the very least, I think the Adem learned their fighting and the entire Lethani thing from the Amyr before they vanished. All that red armor is slightly reminiscent of the Amyr having red hands.
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Mar 24, 2011 00:46
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AngusPodgorny posted:I like this idea even less, but now we are immune to it because he couldn't possibly reuse an idea posted on a message board. It also (kinda) happened with BSG. I remember discussing in TVIV for weeks and weeks who the last cylon could be, and how they were going to find earth. It got to the point where any possibly ending that the writers came up with, we had already discussed to death.
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Mar 24, 2011 01:19
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syphon posted:While I like discussing plots (either to TV shows or Books) on the internet, this is a phenomena I hate. Kinda reminiscent of how Jordan RetConned the whole Demandred/Taim identity because fans figured it out really quickly. I dunno, he swore up and down that's not what happened, was apparently even surprised people thought that way. While I'm sure he wasn't above changing things around after starting, I don't think he'd lie through his teeth about it after the fact. I dunno, I think it's outright impossible that the whole of the Chandrian business will be able to be resolved in the next book if only because of Bast freaking out over Kvothe repeating the poem that names them/gives their signs. The Amyr, though... I dunno, I haven't heard a theory about them that fully satisfied me yet. I guess I'll still wait and see on that.
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Mar 24, 2011 01:59
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Streebs posted:I would bet that the king Kvothe kills is Ambrose Actually, I think it's more likely that Ambrose becomes king after Kvothe kills the current king. Ambrose being the king he kills just seems very convenient. Too tidy. I'm basing my theory on Present-day Kvothe's strong objection to when someone suggested toasting the king during one of the interludes. Wise Man's Fear posted:
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Mar 24, 2011 06:24
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I wonder if this trilogy is just supposed to be about Kvothe's life so far, and he's thinking about writing another for events after the three days?
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Mar 24, 2011 06:40
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Rothfuss might pull a Mistborn and when Kvothe kills all the Chandrian he finds out that they were the only thing holding back a greater evil
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Mar 24, 2011 07:02
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Spoiler regarding an interview about writing the series: I read in an interview he added the framing story quite late in development on the first level, and way after he outlined the whole thing. And he also said while he has added stuff, the general outline and ending hasn't really changed. So that to me would imply you're not getting much out of the framing story.
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Mar 24, 2011 08:15
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Blamestorm posted:Spoiler regarding an interview about writing the series: I read in an interview he added the framing story quite late in development on the first level, and way after he outlined the whole thing. And he also said while he has added stuff, the general outline and ending hasn't really changed. So that to me would imply you're not getting much out of the framing story. Dude, to go from that spoiler to "not getting much out of the framing story" is crazy. Structure, the way you tell the story, has a massive effect on the way a reader/listener/viewer experiences the literal one-by-one events of a plot. I suspect that's a major part of what this particular story is about. And THAT is something he as a writer could figure out and decide well after outlining the rise and fall of a "hero" named Kvothe.
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Mar 24, 2011 15:30
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A Nice Boy posted:I wonder if this trilogy is just supposed to be about Kvothe's life so far, and he's thinking about writing another for events after the three days? Eventually we'll get to the Kingkiller Chronicles: Day 23, when Kvothe has run out of interesting stuff to talk about and the entire book is him getting up, making breakfast, serving beer, yelling at those damned kids to stay off his lawn, etc...
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Mar 24, 2011 17:48
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Don't forget polishing the bottles. He does that a lot.
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Mar 24, 2011 17:54
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Getting arrested for repeatedly describing to children his iron hard "Alar".
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Mar 24, 2011 22:46
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onefish posted:Dude, to go from that spoiler to "not getting much out of the framing story" is crazy. Structure, the way you tell the story, has a massive effect on the way a reader/listener/viewer experiences the literal one-by-one events of a plot. I suspect that's a major part of what this particular story is about. And THAT is something he as a writer could figure out and decide well after outlining the rise and fall of a "hero" named Kvothe. Sorry, I phrased that poorly and I do agree with you. I didn't mean to say that the framing story wasn't important - it will probably crescendo at nearly the same time as the flashback. It was added for a reason and, I think, adds perspective and reflective depth to the flashback sequences and is definitely an integral part of the main plot. What I meant to infer is that expecting many pages of plot development after that time point is probably not going to happen, based on the author's interview, and that it seems obvious now after the second book that there probably won't be many events or page count devoted to the framing story. That's not to diminish its importance, I was more implying that the flashback is going to be where the narrative spends most of its time and anyone hoping for a volume where Kvothe sighs, picks up his sword, sorts out his problem and goes and has adventures after the time point in the Inn is probably going to be disappointed because that's not where the focus is. (Also, I'm totally fine with that) Blamestorm fucked around with this message at 00:26 on Mar 25, 2011 |
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Mar 25, 2011 00:21
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Blamestorm posted:Sorry, I phrased that poorly and I do agree with you. I didn't mean to say that the framing story wasn't important - it will probably crescendo at nearly the same time as the flashback. It was added for a reason and, I think, adds perspective and reflective depth to the flashback sequences and is definitely an integral part of the main plot. What I meant to infer is that expecting many pages of plot development after that time point is probably not going to happen, based on the author's interview, and that it seems obvious now after the second book that there probably won't be many events or page count devoted to the framing story. That's not to diminish its importance, I was more implying that the flashback is going to be where the narrative spends most of its time and anyone hoping for a volume where Kvothe sighs, picks up his sword, sorts out his problem and goes and has adventures after the time point in the Inn is probably going to be disappointed because that's not where the focus is. (Also, I'm totally fine with that) Then again, this trilogy wouldn't be a bad starter for a new series where Kvothe takes on evil mages 1-7 with his Alar that is like Ramston Steel or some other form of cutlery.
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Mar 25, 2011 05:59
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Funny, this thread is becoming more and more like the GRRM threads! Replace Lemon Cakes with Alar that is like Ramson Steel.
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Mar 25, 2011 13:52
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The problem is you can't really start a new series based around Kvothe. The present would need to be wrapped up in the current books and fairly quickly otherwise it would end up being terrible (in my opinion obviously). If Rothfuss stretched Kvothe regaining his abilities into a whole book it would be brutally bad, we'd end up with "wise old mentor" and it would feel like the academy and all that BS all over again with more adult angst. So he'd have to regain his powers relatively quickly. Theoretically once he regains his powers/abilities he should be one of the TOP guys, I guess the Chandrian and Amyr are so bad rear end that maybe he doesn't compare at all, but then we get more training/power up arcs and a final flashy show down. I now agree that we won't see much resolution in the frame story, maybe it will just end on a positive "And then Kvothe remembered who he was." and we'll just be left to assume he goes out and fixes his poo poo.
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Mar 25, 2011 17:04
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MarshallX posted:Funny, this thread is becoming more and more like the GRRM threads! Replace Lemon Cakes with Alar that is like Ramson Steel. NO. One Bad Thread is enough.
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Mar 25, 2011 18:56
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BananaNutkins posted:Then again, this trilogy wouldn't be a bad starter for a new series where Kvothe takes on evil mages 1-7 with his Alar that is like Ramston Steel or some other form of cutlery. My Alar is like a Ginzu knife and can cut through a shoe and a steel can and still cleanly slice a tomato.
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Mar 25, 2011 19:03
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AngusPodgorny posted:I think the Chandrian are going to be, if not the good guys, at least the less-evil alternative to the Amyr based on Nina's drawing. Despite drawing Cinder and Haliax, she referred to the Amyr as the "worst" and the one who was "ready to burn down the whole world." The Amyr will probably turn out to be boilerplate "do whatever it takes to stop the evil forces, but eventually become as bad as the evil they tried to stop."
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Mar 26, 2011 01:10
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WeWereSchizo posted:The Amyr will probably turn out to be boilerplate "do whatever it takes to stop the evil forces, but eventually become as bad as the evil they tried to stop." We were already told that one of their notable members was basically a more scientifically efficacious analogue of Dr Mengele, so I'd rate this possibility as pretty high.
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Mar 26, 2011 01:21
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Skapegoat posted:Actually, I think it's more likely that Ambrose becomes king after Kvothe kills the current king. Ambrose being the king he kills just seems very convenient. Too tidy. I agree. Also I don't believe the Chandrian could have been killed in book 3, as Bast and Kvothe seem to still be afraid of them after he tells the story he heard from Shehyn.
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Mar 26, 2011 01:27
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Mahlertov Cocktail posted:NO. One Bad Thread is enough. Precisely my point
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Mar 26, 2011 02:04
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Well, Lanre is literally unkillable, and not a state he is too happy with. If there was a way for him to die, I think he would've found it in those thousands of years of life.
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Mar 26, 2011 02:04
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Kellanved posted:Well, Lanre is literally unkillable, and not a state he is too happy with. If there was a way for him to die, I think he would've found it in those thousands of years of life. That brings up an interesting point. If Lanre can't die but wants to, why is he afraid of the Amyr, the Singers and the Sithe?
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Mar 26, 2011 22:04
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I think he said to the other Chandrian that he protects them from the Amyr, the Singers, and the Sithe. I don't necessarily know that he said he was afraid of them.
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Mar 27, 2011 17:45
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Just read these books--well actually I'm not quite finished with The Wise Man's Fear. Great books, and the author has gotten better from the first to second book. Not really feeling this as a trilogy though. Seems like a narrative that can easily accidentally be 5 or 6 books.
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Mar 28, 2011 08:26
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I'm about 2/3 of the way through the second book. Really enjoyed the first, but Rothfuss seems to be taking forever to get him out of the University. Book 3 is going to have be massive if it's going to deal with all the claims that Kwothe made at the start. Plus, so far in this book he's aged what, a year? Really enjoyable though. Easy to read, plenty that I want to know more about, and I don't mind Kwothe being a slightly insufferable perfect little prick. But it annoyed me when Kwothe follows Felurian into the Fae. They spend too much time there, and really laid it on thick. It was essentially the equivalent of someone saying "Yeah, I lost my virginity to a super model. She said I was the best shag she ever had. Then I beat up Mike Tyson in a fist fight. Then I wrote the best song ever and everyone said I was the best." slotbadger fucked around with this message at 12:02 on Mar 28, 2011 |
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Mar 28, 2011 10:11
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slotbadger posted:It was essentially the equivalent of someone saying "Yeah, I lost my virginity to a super model. She said I was the best shag she ever had. Then I beat up Mike Tyson in a fist fight. Then I wrote the best song ever and everyone said I was the best." Welcome to Wise Man's Fear.
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Mar 28, 2011 19:10
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I happened to read in one of the Amazon reviews on the speculation of Ambrose being the King he kills (from the comment that he was one of the guys in line to be king in NotW) this comment:Amazon Review posted:...if Ambrose is the King he kills in the end to start the war (seeing as how Ambrose is 13th in line for the throne and 4 people in that line were killed during the course of the novel)... I completely missed that. Who were the 4 nobles killed in WMF? Also, when that list of families in line to be king was given, did anyone notice that Lackless was listed before Ambrose? Sorry if I missed this if it has been mentioned before, anyway it probably doesn't matter since Kvothe's parents never married .
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Mar 29, 2011 14:58
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Bantaras posted:I completely missed that. Who were the 4 nobles killed in WMF? I thought he made a passing reference at some point to a tragedy (a sickness? an earthquake?) that killed some nameless nobles and Ambrose getting closer to the throne because of it, but my memory is very hazy. I don't think it was a big deal, plot-wise. Or, he didn't make it a big deal. Edit: Insofar as the Lackless thing, I suppose it's possible that Kvothe at some point becomes king due to his bloodline, then "kills" the king when he fakes his own death. That would be consistent with the overall exaggerated quality of his supposed accomplishments, but it would still make me mad. Sophia fucked around with this message at 15:11 on Mar 29, 2011 |
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Mar 29, 2011 15:08
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He was actually playing a game of chess and he was winning (of course) and instead of saying checkmate he actually took the king off of the board, which caused him to be an outlaw for the rest of his days. This would be the best possible outcome.
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Mar 29, 2011 15:27
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So Kvothe is constantly broke, keeps losing his possessions, and travels all over the known world but is still able to eat his birth control plant everyday.
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Mar 29, 2011 18:29
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My favorite parts of the book were when Kvothe was losing or getting his rear end beat. When he failed to persuade the boy not to join the army, or when he got his rear end beat by Devi. Also, I took great joy when the bandits beat him in his bar. I think Joe Abercrombie has ruined me.
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Mar 29, 2011 18:55
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masada00 posted:So Kvothe is constantly broke, keeps losing his possessions, and travels all over the known world but is still able to eat his birth control plant everyday. For all we know, Ferulian only taught him butt sex, so that's all he knows and all he has been doing. Hughmoris posted:My favorite parts of the book were when Kvothe was losing or getting his rear end beat. When he failed to persuade the boy not to join the army, or when he got his rear end beat by Devi. Also, I took great joy when the bandits beat him in his bar. I would like to see Abercrombie write the 3rd book in this series. Kvothe would probably off himself in the first chapter by slipping on a puddle of wine and impaling himself on the sword he has hanging on the wall, and then we could get on with the story.
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Mar 29, 2011 22:17
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Habibi posted:For all we know, Ferulian only taught him butt sex, so that's all he knows and all he has been doing. There's a scene where he's trying to explain to Penthe that women get pregnant from having sex with men. He says to her, “There is an herb called silphium. I chew it every day, and it keeps me from putting a baby in a woman.” It reminded me of that scene from the movie Thank You for Smoking, when they're trying to figure out how they will explain how the actors in the movie they are pitching are able to smoke in space. One of the guys says something like, "We'll just have one of the actors say, 'Thank god we invented that thing-a-ma-jig that let's us smoke in space.'" On a related note, since the Adem don't realize how babies are made, that means these girls are running around banging their dads and brothers.
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Mar 30, 2011 00:49
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I kind of assumed that the herb is commonly available in the wild, or that Kvothe started using it after he left the University and came into some money. Then again, Kvothe wasn't even sexually active before going to Adem, so it's possible that he started taking it after his time with Ferulian.
syphon fucked around with this message at 01:48 on Mar 30, 2011 |
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Mar 30, 2011 01:43
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