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MarshallX
Apr 13, 2004
Also, Mom is able to produce great with a pump but Grayson wants nothing to do with latching, even though he will shotgun 5ML out of a bottle in 3 seconds flat and suck on your finger to no end when hungry.

Any tips? I know it's early and this is common, just trying to keep new options on the table.

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Dr. Retarded
Jul 28, 2007
"It gets two squeaks, 'cuz it's the funniest one of all!!!"

MarshallX posted:

Also, Mom is able to produce great with a pump but Grayson wants nothing to do with latching, even though he will shotgun 5ML out of a bottle in 3 seconds flat and suck on your finger to no end when hungry.

Any tips? I know it's early and this is common, just trying to keep new options on the table.
KEEP TRYING. I pumped and fed with a bottle in the beginning bc of a latch issue compounded by jaundice and the nurses demanding he be overfed formula in order to poop the bili out, and with a lot of tears, help from the lactation consultants for the first 5 weeks, and nipple shields, we were finally nursing like old pros at about 6 weeks.

I will tell you though, having my overbearing parents staying at my place for 12 - 15 hours a day for the first few days after we arrived home from the hospital was no help in regards to nursing. I don't know where you are on the MIL front, but I hope she is gone and leaving you to bond as a family.

Rathina
Jan 8, 2001
Make sure to find a lactation consultant, or 2...I think I saw 4 different ones in the hospital and they all have different methods and things to say/try/do, and I found that to be really helpful. I still have a weekly appointment I go to for lactation help.

Just make sure you keep trying, it can take awhile for some babies to learn to latch. Jill didn't latch for almost a whole week. I did have one lactation consultant tell me if she wasn't going to latch after a week, she never would...this got me down, till a friend of mine was like "There are NICU babies who don't breastfeed for weeks/months and eventually get it", and that pretty much made me feel confident in still trying to get her to latch.


She took finger feeds/bottles no problem, but I just kept trying, and eventually got her to latch with a nipple shield, and a week later we were able to get off the nipple shield. Now at 3 weeks, I'm just finally getting used to the nursing. It's painful sometimes, and other times I want to give up completely. It's a skill that both mom, and baby have to learn together...I would almost say like 2 virgins having sex...no one knows what they are really doing, and it takes lots and lots and lots of practice.

Fire In The Disco
Oct 4, 2007
I cannot change the gender of my unborn child and shouldn't waste my time or energy pretending he won't exist
Get the MIL out of there so that she feels comfortable with dealing with a fussy baby, because getting him to latch properly is going to be an uphill battle and she doesn't need to have the stress of MIL there compounding it.

Also, look for the local LLL chapter in your area. Sometimes LCs are great but just don't get to the root of the issue. I have heard nothing but awesome things about LLL groups, and having multiple experienced breastfeeders there to help often does what a LC alone can't.

bilabial trill
Dec 25, 2008

not just a B

MarshallX posted:

Also, Mom is able to produce great with a pump but Grayson wants nothing to do with latching, even though he will shotgun 5ML out of a bottle in 3 seconds flat and suck on your finger to no end when hungry.

Any tips? I know it's early and this is common, just trying to keep new options on the table.

I had this problem with my son. He was not interested in sucking on my boobs (especially the left) for the first few days.

Be a little careful with the bottle, he might get "lazy" and prefer the bottle to boob, as milk flows faster and the sucking technique is different. With my son, I hand expressed and fed him from a cup. I let him suck on my little finger to stimulate his sucking. Both me and my husband spent as much time as possible skin-to-skin with him, as that stimulates the baby's sucking. When he was 4 days old he ate mostly from my boobs, and by 2 weeks all issues were completely resolved. Best of luck, you can do this!

This video shows how to get a good latch.

MarshallX
Apr 13, 2004

Panne posted:

I had this problem with my son. He was not interested in sucking on my boobs (especially the left) for the first few days.

Be a little careful with the bottle, he might get "lazy" and prefer the bottle to boob, as milk flows faster and the sucking technique is different. With my son, I hand expressed and fed him from a cup. I let him suck on my little finger to stimulate his sucking. Both me and my husband spent as much time as possible skin-to-skin with him, as that stimulates the baby's sucking. When he was 4 days old he ate mostly from my boobs, and by 2 weeks all issues were completely resolved. Best of luck, you can do this!

This video shows how to get a good latch.

Well, low and behold, we got Grayson home and the first time we try in his room he latched on both sides!

My wife is elated. :) Maybe the calmness of the house and the quietness gave him a bit of reassurance, but it was pretty special.

bilabial trill
Dec 25, 2008

not just a B

MarshallX posted:

Well, low and behold, we got Grayson home and the first time we try in his room he latched on both sides!

My wife is elated. :) Maybe the calmness of the house and the quietness gave him a bit of reassurance, but it was pretty special.

That is excellent news! He might go a bit back and forth; my son would suddenly refuse to stay latched on one breast, then be fine the next feed and so forth. So if that happens, don't be discouraged! You can do it wooooooo!

MarshallX
Apr 13, 2004

Panne posted:

That is excellent news! He might go a bit back and forth; my son would suddenly refuse to stay latched on one breast, then be fine the next feed and so forth. So if that happens, don't be discouraged! You can do it wooooooo!

Low and behold you were absolutely right, he latched on good the first time and tried it out but the next feed wanted nothing to do with it. We've decided it might be because formula comes so easily from the bottle and has to work so hard to get it from my wife that he just doesn't stay interested and gets upset because he is hungry.

Once her milk comes in I think we will have better success, right now our schedule is try breast feeding for a bit to keep him interested but not upset, then mom pumps, we mix formula with the pumped liquid and feed away...it's a long process but I think it's best.

She kind of did a parabola with how much she was getting from the pump, approx 7ml in the hospital to start, dwindled down to barely anything (so we fed formula), now she is back up to around 7ml!

Can anyone give me an idea of how much formula we should be feeding? The hospital told us 20-30ml per feeding was great (8 per day), but when we got home we found the side of the formula can says 80-100ml per!

Chickalicious
Apr 13, 2005

We are the ones we've been waiting for.
MarshallX, a baby's stomach is very small in the first couple weeks! Here's a good summary of what size it is on what day: http://typeaparent.com/infant-stomach-size-and-growth.html

This is why babies need frequent feeds. A good resource for all things breastfeeding is kellymom.com. I'd also suggest that you try finger feeding or feeding from a cup instead of using the bottle so early on. This will give your wife the best chance of being successful with nursing. Nipple confusion is a real thing, and you certainly don't want that to happen!

Edit: Did you give your MIL the boot?

MarshallX
Apr 13, 2004
She went home the day he arrived and she is coming back tonight until tomorrow, she seems much better now after talking to her. I think she realized she was being absolutely insane. Wife is still going to talk to her about it because some of the things she said were ridiculous. My mom was at our house for the two nights we stayed at the hospital and top to bottom cleaned it. I love Mom's sometimes :love:

With regards to feeding, I think I am just trying to figure out how much to provide enough since we aren't exclusively feeding from one or the other source.

AlistairCookie
Apr 1, 2010

I am a Dinosaur
/\/\/\
I bottle and breastfeed--some formula and EBM when I have it. This is what has gone on for us:

Nipple confusion is a real thing (happened to a friend of mine), although Liam doesn't have it. (What he has is side preference--hates the left.) I gave him a bottle when he was 3 days old because nursing hurt so bad; he was hungry and my milk was just starting and it just plain hurt! So while a bottle can cause problems, it doesn't automatically. Now he gets 1-2 bottles of something a day and he has a paci when he's sleepy--and still nurses like a barracuda. I think that first bottle he ate about 1.5 oz (~45ml). Now at 4+ weeks old (where the Hell does the time go?!) he will drink ~100-120ml of whatever from a bottle if he's really hungry. Like if it's a real meal, not me topping him off (so to speak) before bed.

For me to keep nursing, the most important thing was that break; and having the mental out that if it got bad again, I could take another break. Just knowing that kept me going more than the irrational desperation of "I can only nurse, NO bottles, oh God!" and made me keep at nursing.

So if your giving mom milk in a bottle, I'd warm about ~30-45ml (or whatever you have on hand) to start. You can always give more. If formula, just make 2oz (one scoop) and offer that. If he's hungry and drinks it all, wonderful. If not, oh well. He'll let you know if he's full or still hungry. All babies are different, and different from one feed to the next and one week to the next. They're a constantly moving target! :D Just take it one feed at a time and don't worry. I think your method of latching for a bit, and then bottling afterwards if necessary is perfectly reasonable. Whatever routine you end up on will fall into place, and there is no one right answer. What's right is whatever is working for you.

His little knit cap is adorable BTW. :3: Sigh...babies. Also, glad your MIL is in check.

If I may celebrate a personal victory (and by that I mean dumb luck having not one thing to do with me): Liam slept from 10:30 to 4am last night! It was amazing--the sleep was totally worth the complete mess that my shirt and the sheets were after all that time. :)

A Serious Woman
Sep 9, 2010
So what do you guys do to keep your kids entertained? Zoey's just over six weeks old and I'm at a loss as to what to do to keep her interested. I show her black and white baby stimulation images, play with her on her play mat (it has musical toys, dangly things, etc.), sing to her, talk to her, read to her, carry her around to let her see the happenings of the house (I'd do more of this if my back wasn't shot), let her sit in her chair that has dangly things that I'm teaching her to hit, etc. The problem is that no matter what we do, she gets bored within 10 minutes, starts crying and then wants to do something else. I'd be happy to do whatever I can to keep her content but I feel like my usual bag of tricks is coming up short. Any suggestions?

VorpalBunny
May 1, 2009

Killer Rabbit of Caerbannog

A Serious Woman posted:

So what do you guys do to keep your kids entertained?

Do you go on walks or sit outside with her? My kid is endlessly fascinated watching our dogs in the backyard, or watching the world go by on a long walk. He also likes to people watch.

And we found a few choices tunes that he loves to listen to over and over again. Our current go-to song is Around The World by Daft Punk. He sits on my lap and I bounce him on my knee to the beat while I am on the computer.

As for the bad back, have you tried any baby carriers? The Pikkolo I bought has an optional support belt attached, so the bulk of my kid's weight is carried on my hips. You can rent them from Paxbaby to try them out.

A Serious Woman
Sep 9, 2010
The weather still hasn't turned here yet and it's been really cold and damp lately so we aren't getting many walks in. However, any day where it's even half decently nice out, I take her out and she seems to enjoy it; sometimes it even makes her fall asleep which I know she could use more of. C'mon spring, spring already!

It didn't even dawn on me to try her out in the carrier around the house. She's normally pretty indifferent to it but I'm sure like most things if I persevere, she'll eventually get used to it. I've pretty much given up on the moby wrap; she hates it so much that she cries until she hyperventilates. It just isn't worth the hassle anymore.

Fire In The Disco
Oct 4, 2007
I cannot change the gender of my unborn child and shouldn't waste my time or energy pretending he won't exist

A Serious Woman posted:

So what do you guys do to keep your kids entertained? Zoey's just over six weeks old and I'm at a loss as to what to do to keep her interested. I show her black and white baby stimulation images, play with her on her play mat (it has musical toys, dangly things, etc.), sing to her, talk to her, read to her, carry her around to let her see the happenings of the house (I'd do more of this if my back wasn't shot), let her sit in her chair that has dangly things that I'm teaching her to hit, etc. The problem is that no matter what we do, she gets bored within 10 minutes, starts crying and then wants to do something else. I'd be happy to do whatever I can to keep her content but I feel like my usual bag of tricks is coming up short. Any suggestions?

We go somewhere every single day, and have done so since she was a month old or so. She is a very social baby and is at her happiest out in public, while on the flip side she gets bored at home all day. So even if it was just going to Target or the grocery store, even if I didn't have any shopping to do and we were going to wander, that's what we did. I found a great mom's group too, and go to playdates a couple of times a week.

At that age Cecilia still slept every 1.5 or so hours, so our outings were limited, but they still broke up the monotony. I'd either get her home in time for nap or I'd let her fall asleep on me (I wore her all the time) and keep walking.

Braksgirl
Dec 25, 2010

Unofficial Goon Disney travel agent since 2014!

Tens of Goons served!


A Serious Woman posted:

So what do you guys do to keep your kids entertained? Zoey's just over six weeks old and I'm at a loss as to what to do to keep her interested. I show her black and white baby stimulation images, play with her on her play mat (it has musical toys, dangly things, etc.), sing to her, talk to her, read to her, carry her around to let her see the happenings of the house (I'd do more of this if my back wasn't shot), let her sit in her chair that has dangly things that I'm teaching her to hit, etc. The problem is that no matter what we do, she gets bored within 10 minutes, starts crying and then wants to do something else. I'd be happy to do whatever I can to keep her content but I feel like my usual bag of tricks is coming up short. Any suggestions?

See, I don't really do a whole lot. I think a few minutes of play time here and there are fine but the rest of the time, babies can just observe their surroundings. I don't think the baby is bored so much as she's probably got sensory overload. I think just letting her be as long as she's happy and letting her watch you fold a load of laundry is good enough for a very young baby. Sing a little song while you do it if you feel the need to interact. I don't think you have to be entertaining a baby every moment they are awake.

Fire In The Disco
Oct 4, 2007
I cannot change the gender of my unborn child and shouldn't waste my time or energy pretending he won't exist

Braksgirl posted:

See, I don't really do a whole lot. I think a few minutes of play time here and there are fine but the rest of the time, babies can just observe their surroundings. I don't think the baby is bored so much as she's probably got sensory overload. I think just letting her be as long as she's happy and letting her watch you fold a load of laundry is good enough for a very young baby. Sing a little song while you do it if you feel the need to interact. I don't think you have to be entertaining a baby every moment they are awake.

I agree with this completely, though I added narration of the things I was doing like folding laundry. However, it doesn't change the fact that breaking up the day by going somewhere every day vastly improves my baby's demeanor that day (and has since she was tiny).

Rathina
Jan 8, 2001

AlistairCookie posted:

For me to keep nursing, the most important thing was that break; and having the mental out that if it got bad again, I could take another break. Just knowing that kept me going more than the irrational desperation of "I can only nurse, NO bottles, oh God!" and made me keep at nursing.

This also helped me greatly. It seemed to take less stress off nursing knowing that giving a bottle was an option, and it was ok if I was having a difficult time, and really once I became ok with bottles, it seems like we haven't had to use them since.

We are a little over 3 weeks into nursing, and it seems like every day is getting better. Today I finally felt like I could explore other nursing positions (previously, it was kind of a "well it's working the way it is, so I don't want to screw anything up). Hoping once I start getting real comfortable, I could start trying it public.

Now, with the whole idea of "nipple confusion" I see lots bottles advertised as better for breastfeeding (we use the Breastflow, I like it a lot), but what about pacifiers, are there specific ones that are good for breastfeeding, or does it not really matter? I don't think we are ready for a pacifier yet, but I want to make sure I have the right ones on hand if I need to.

bilabial trill
Dec 25, 2008

not just a B

A Serious Woman posted:

So what do you guys do to keep your kids entertained? Zoey's just over six weeks old and I'm at a loss as to what to do to keep her interested. I show her black and white baby stimulation images, play with her on her play mat (it has musical toys, dangly things, etc.), sing to her, talk to her, read to her, carry her around to let her see the happenings of the house (I'd do more of this if my back wasn't shot), let her sit in her chair that has dangly things that I'm teaching her to hit, etc. The problem is that no matter what we do, she gets bored within 10 minutes, starts crying and then wants to do something else. I'd be happy to do whatever I can to keep her content but I feel like my usual bag of tricks is coming up short. Any suggestions?

This sounds completely normal and fine. Have you tried putting him on a blanket on the bathroom floor while you shower? My kid loves the sound of running water, so when he was younger I'd do that sometimes to entertain him and get clean at the same time ;)

When my kid was that age, a lot of times he would get tired from all the impressions, and I just let him sit in my lap or lie next to me for a while with no talking, no eye contact and so on. Babies can get overstimulated if there's too much going on. I also carried him in a wrap, and that always made him fall asleep (after some looking around for a while).

I might have gone on about this before, but unless it's colder than -10 C you can go out! Just dress properly (wool is best). I totally get wanting spring to come though - we've had lots of snow this winter, and not having to trudge through it is all kinds of awesome! Also, my kid hates putting clothes on, sigh. He thinks we should live in southern California or something, he just loves being naked.

Edit: the -10 C is because babies' airways can't handle really cold air. Other than that, you could theoretically dress them warm enough for even colder temperatures.

randomfuss
Dec 30, 2006

A Serious Woman posted:

So what do you guys do to keep your kids entertained? Zoey's just over six weeks old and I'm at a loss as to what to do to keep her interested. I show her black and white baby stimulation images, play with her on her play mat (it has musical toys, dangly things, etc.), sing to her, talk to her, read to her, carry her around to let her see the happenings of the house (I'd do more of this if my back wasn't shot), let her sit in her chair that has dangly things that I'm teaching her to hit, etc. The problem is that no matter what we do, she gets bored within 10 minutes, starts crying and then wants to do something else. I'd be happy to do whatever I can to keep her content but I feel like my usual bag of tricks is coming up short. Any suggestions?

For me a 6 weeks it was more about what to do to keep him from crying from tummy pain! Now (nearly 3mo) we do the entertainment thing, but no more than 15 minutes at the time, because then baby either falls asleep or gets nervous or pukes. He likes his hands a lot, and that seems to keep him entertained better than me doing stuff with him. Maybe he has some troubles, but really, we do not need to keep him entertained a lot.

What we do:
- from 1 mo: tummy time on the playing carpet (but no toys on it)
- play watch the object
- play squish the object
- paint with a bright pencil on a sheet of paper in front of him
- give him stuff to grab, even if he still sucks at it
- talk and read to him (he can stand up to 30 minutes of that)

There are dangly things over his crib and stroller but I don't think he cares. His hands and his clothes are much more interesting. When we go out, he falls asleep, and when he is awake he shows no interest about what's going on around him. He sometimes looks at people's faces, or green objects. Oh man from what I write it looks like my baby is retarded.

MarshallX
Apr 13, 2004
How long did the people that had issues nursing try until they gave up and pumped? How did you deliver the pumped milk to baby?

We are still having issues with Grayson, he either falls asleep or freak outs and won't suck even when he gets a small latch on Mom.

This is very frustrating :(

We think he is being lazy because the dumb bottles the hospital made us use when he wouldn't latch for the first time are too easy to get milk out of whereas getting it from the source takes more work.

We tried putting milk on the pad of our finger and getting him to latch to that for the same size source but he didn't want anything to do with it.

Rathina
Jan 8, 2001

MarshallX posted:

How long did the people that had issues nursing try until they gave up and pumped? How did you deliver the pumped milk to baby?

We are still having issues with Grayson, he either falls asleep or freak outs and won't suck even when he gets a small latch on Mom.

This is very frustrating :(

We think he is being lazy because the dumb bottles the hospital made us use when he wouldn't latch for the first time are too easy to get milk out of whereas getting it from the source takes more work.

We tried putting milk on the pad of our finger and getting him to latch to that for the same size source but he didn't want anything to do with it.

It took 1 week for Jill to finally latch, prior to that the first 3-4 days were finger feeds with an sns, and then later I went with a bottle because fingerfeeding with an sns was a pain in the rear end, and I figured she was just as likely to get nipple confusion. Even when she did finally latch that next week was still a mixture of bottles and latching till she got the hang of it. It really takes a lot of practice, and it is VERY VERY VERY frustrating. There are days were I "gave up" and pumped and used a bottle, and then there were days were she would latch perfect the whole day. Even now at 3 weeks, we still have trouble occasionally, right now she doesn't like my right boob.

SNS: http://www.medelabreastfeedingus.com/products/breastfeeding-devices/51/supplemental-nursing-system-sns

I'm not sure if you can order or buy them anywhere local...my hospital was one of the "pro breastfeeding hospitals" so they try that type of stuff before they try bottles.

Hillridge
Aug 3, 2004

WWheeeeeee!
My apologies if this was posted in the thread already. Do you know of any impartial articles, or solid facts on home birth vs. hospital birth? I understand there are pros and cons of each, but most of the home birth stuff I have seen I feel like I can't trust because it is highly opinionated. I'm looking for statistics that compare rates of things like complications, infant mortality, mother mortality, recovery time, etc. between the two. Thanks.

Rathina
Jan 8, 2001

Hillridge posted:

My apologies if this was posted in the thread already. Do you know of any impartial articles, or solid facts on home birth vs. hospital birth? I understand there are pros and cons of each, but most of the home birth stuff I have seen I feel like I can't trust because it is highly opinionated. I'm looking for statistics that compare rates of things like complications, infant mortality, mother mortality, recovery time, etc. between the two. Thanks.

I don't really have any links or facts, but by law (may very from state to state) I believe most midwifes have to turn away people from home births if they are at high risk for any sort of complication.

When you are looking at home birth's they tend to be more positive results, because the high risk pregnancies have essentially been "weeded out", does that make sense? I know most home birth websites will say things like how many successful deliveries, or transfers during labor they have, but I never seem to find any numbers about how many people end up being refereed for a hospital birth for risks discovered prior to going into labor.

Fire In The Disco
Oct 4, 2007
I cannot change the gender of my unborn child and shouldn't waste my time or energy pretending he won't exist

MarshallX posted:

How long did the people that had issues nursing try until they gave up and pumped? How did you deliver the pumped milk to baby?

We are still having issues with Grayson, he either falls asleep or freak outs and won't suck even when he gets a small latch on Mom.

This is very frustrating :(

We think he is being lazy because the dumb bottles the hospital made us use when he wouldn't latch for the first time are too easy to get milk out of whereas getting it from the source takes more work.

We tried putting milk on the pad of our finger and getting him to latch to that for the same size source but he didn't want anything to do with it.

I would try cup or syringe feeding him so that it's not even remotely shaped like a nipple. Like, try latching and if it ends up not working, switch to the cup or syringe.

As far as the length of time thing goes-- you can keep trying for a long time if you are so inclined. I have two different friends whose babies ended up latching well later in infancy.

The first is a mother of twins. The boy latched great from the start, but not the girl. She worked with the girl tirelessly, it seemed, and finally, around 3 months old, the girl began latching and nursing well.

The other was even longer. Her son was a NICU baby born early, like 30ish weeks. He didn't even get to try nursing until he was like 8 weeks old. He couldn't nurse well for a very long time, but something clicked around 6 months and he is now, at 15 months, a "boobaholic," according to his mom.

bilabial trill
Dec 25, 2008

not just a B

MarshallX posted:

How long did the people that had issues nursing try until they gave up and pumped? How did you deliver the pumped milk to baby?

We are still having issues with Grayson, he either falls asleep or freak outs and won't suck even when he gets a small latch on Mom.

This is very frustrating :(

We think he is being lazy because the dumb bottles the hospital made us use when he wouldn't latch for the first time are too easy to get milk out of whereas getting it from the source takes more work.

We tried putting milk on the pad of our finger and getting him to latch to that for the same size source but he didn't want anything to do with it.

Sorry you're having problems :( It can be very stressful. I already said this, but it took me 2 weeks (not until I gave up, until he managed to latch consistently).

It's very early yet for you guys, you can do it! Fire in the Disco speaks the truth, ditch the bottles and use a cup or a syringe! Also, you mentioned that you supplement with formula. Are you sure he needs it? Unless there is some issue, babies are fine with what mom produces, their stomachs are made to match the output. The "danger" of giving formula is that mom's boobs needs the stimulation from the baby to make her produce milk. Too little stimulation can make a vicious cycle where there's not enough supply, then you give more formula, leading to less stimulation and so on.

Of course, if you feel like you need the peace of mind, you could give formula, but have mom pump or hand express more. Be aware that it can be hard to judge if the baby is getting enough only based on his behaviour. The only reliable indications are 1) weight gain and 2) wet/poopy diapers.

Fire In The Disco
Oct 4, 2007
I cannot change the gender of my unborn child and shouldn't waste my time or energy pretending he won't exist
I totally agree with everything Panne said, and wanted to add that if she's not already, she should try squirting milk into his mouth when she's latching him, if possible, to keep reinforcing that milk comes from her. Oh, and I know I said this once before, but La Leche League is often the saving grace of nursing relationships.

AlistairCookie
Apr 1, 2010

I am a Dinosaur

Hillridge posted:

My apologies if this was posted in the thread already. Do you know of any impartial articles, or solid facts on home birth vs. hospital birth? I understand there are pros and cons of each, but most of the home birth stuff I have seen I feel like I can't trust because it is highly opinionated. I'm looking for statistics that compare rates of things like complications, infant mortality, mother mortality, recovery time, etc. between the two. Thanks.

I too am devoid of links, but something to keep in mind is that not all hospitals are created equal; you experience can vary greatly depending on the facility. For instance, if you think a hospital birth automatically has to be industrial and full of interventions you don't want/need, that isn't necessarily true of all places. I, for instance, went to the hospital that is known as the "baby hospital" in my city. Overall, my experiences were very positive--I was in charge of what was happening to me (at least until the end, but I digress).

When making your decision, just don't assume that hospital births are always cold and industrial, that's all.

MarshallX, so sorry the hospital pressured you into using a bottle so quickly! Midget didn't even half-assed latch until day three, with a nipple shield, and no one was pushing us towards a bottle even then. I'm not advocating giving up in the least little bit, but with Midget I gave up after about two weeks. He was just mouth-stupid or my nipples were too hard to deal with or something and he could only flail about marginally effectively with a nipple shield anyway. :( I mentally couldn't take it any more. But EPing, as some posts by myself and others a couple pages back attest to, is full of it's own issues as well.

If you are giving a bottle though, make sure it's the slowest flow possible. Like a #1, or NB or whatever nipple in the system you have. That way, there's less of a chance for him to get used to a faster flow than the breast.

All it boils down to is, whatever you do or don't do, just keep reminding your wife not to beat herself up over anything. We all just do the best we can and there is no gold standard to strive towards or fall short of.

MarshallX
Apr 13, 2004
Thanks for all the awesome advice. To answer some questions, we no longer need to supplement as Mom is able to pump 60-70ML every 3 hours which leaves a bit left over for the start of the next feeding. This was very exciting for us!

The bottles we are using are Born Free #1 so I think they should be good.

I think we will try cup feeding as well with a shot glass.

We have the public health nurse coming by tommorow and are going to ask about breast shields as they look very promising. The key will be to ween him off of using one but getting that bit of success to Mom is important to me right now, I can see her frustration building try after try.

Mom tried squirting some into his mouth and we also tried pumping a little bit and dripping it onto her nipple, didn't seem to make him anymore interested.

Oh, I also forgot, Grayson has grown almost 2" and gained back 2oz of the 5oz he lost after birth 4 days ago. I thought the 2" of growth is pretty crazy.

MarshallX fucked around with this message at 23:13 on Apr 6, 2011

Eponymous Bosch
Aug 11, 2010

Hillridge posted:

My apologies if this was posted in the thread already. Do you know of any impartial articles, or solid facts on home birth vs. hospital birth? I understand there are pros and cons of each, but most of the home birth stuff I have seen I feel like I can't trust because it is highly opinionated. I'm looking for statistics that compare rates of things like complications, infant mortality, mother mortality, recovery time, etc. between the two. Thanks.

Longtime lurker, I am planning on becoming an OB/GYN and am fascinated by the medicalization of pregnancy care. Here is a good study from the Canadian Medical Association Journal from 2009. It controls for homebirth without contraindications and trained birthing assistance.

http://www.cmaj.ca/cgi/content/abstract/cmaj.081869v1

Here's an article from the American Journal of Obstetrics and Gynecology, they do not control for ill advised homebirths and include homebirths that were unexpected (ie the mother could not get to the hospital on time or medical personnel could not arrive on time to assist and women who delivered at home against medical advice).

http://www.ajog.org/article/S0002-9378%2810%2900671-X/abstract

Here's the CDC Vital Statics on Homebirth with good explantaions of how data can vary so widely.

http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr58/nvsr58_11.PDF

To be honest though, all studies on homebirth v. hospital birth are political. Not all midwives are created equal, not all Labor and Delivery Units are created equal. There is a ton of money to be made off of fear on both sides, it's really about your comfort with the resources available. You can tour birth centers, L&D (and post partum units) Floors, talk to midwives and OB/GYNs in your area and see what fits and what their stats are for things you care about.

Birthing Centers are excellent in between options if you want a midwife experience but be close to emergency medical attention if needed.

peanut
Sep 9, 2007


Pumping didn't work well for me but a nipple shield did the trick. Bottle/nipple confusion doesn't usually last for long.
Bug gets both everyday like a champ.

AlistairCookie
Apr 1, 2010

I am a Dinosaur

MarshallX posted:

getting that bit of success to Mom is important to me right now, I can see her frustration building try after try.

:smith: I remember that feeling very acutely. My sympathies!

Hillridge
Aug 3, 2004

WWheeeeeee!
Thanks for all the info!

We're still months away from even trying to have a kid, but we're already discussing options for the birth. I'm pushing pretty hard (no pun intended) for a birthing center over a home birth, since I feel like it can provide an almost identical experience with a huge reduction in risks. I have plenty of reading to do before I can form a solid opinion though.

Chandrika
Aug 23, 2007

MarshallX posted:

How long did the people that had issues nursing try until they gave up and pumped? How did you deliver the pumped milk to baby?

We tried desperately for nine weeks to breastfeed, but my daughter ended up in the hospital with failure to thrive, because she simply wouldn't do it. I learned to pump and finger fed for another few weeks, but it was exhausting and didn't help, so we moved to bottles with my expressed breast milk. Autumn is 18 months now, and despite mountains of problems (thrush, mastitis X4, hospital superbug, Raynauds of the nipples...) I'm still pumping for her, so it's definitely possible. But... it SUCKS. I recommend trying everything you can, over and over again to get your baby to latch. And get help, over and over again, too. If one person isn't useful, move onto another until you get it to work out. From what I understand, it's a rare baby who won't eventually take to breastfeeding; just try to keep the stress levels down if at all possible!

Susan B. Antimony
Aug 25, 2008

Hillridge posted:

Thanks for all the info!

We're still months away from even trying to have a kid, but we're already discussing options for the birth. I'm pushing pretty hard (no pun intended) for a birthing center over a home birth, since I feel like it can provide an almost identical experience with a huge reduction in risks. I have plenty of reading to do before I can form a solid opinion though.

Would you be the person giving birth, or would that be your partner? In my opinion, assuming you've got a low-risk pregnancy, it should really come down to what best works for the pregnant lady. I've given birth twice, once at a birthing center and once supposed to be at the hospital but accidentally at home, and while both were good experiences, I honestly preferred the second time. When I'm in a lot of pain or having to work hard at something, I really just want to be left alone to get on with it--I found the encouragement and offers of honey at the B.C. exasperating while I was in labor. Does the mother-to-be most want to be in a homey, familiar environment, or to feel absolutely secure that any medical problem can be dealt with instantly, or to have pain relief, or labor in water, or? Figuring that out is a good first step.

fallenturtle
Feb 28, 2003
paintedblue.net
Anyone had an experience out there with contraction tracking Android apps?

MarshallX
Apr 13, 2004
Oh my god, the breast shield was a godsend. It worked the first time we tried it with the Public Health Nurse after exhausting all other options for breast feeding. We just sat down to feed again and he went right on.

The nurse plans to help ween him off it in a few weeks, but for now, I can already see my wife's attitude change.

:woop: :woop:

Should Mom pump after breast feeding? Baby looks quite content but she said she still feels a bit heavy.

Fire In The Disco
Oct 4, 2007
I cannot change the gender of my unborn child and shouldn't waste my time or energy pretending he won't exist

MarshallX posted:

Oh my god, the breast shield was a godsend. It worked the first time we tried it with the Public Health Nurse after exhausting all other options for breast feeding. We just sat down to feed again and he went right on.

The nurse plans to help ween him off it in a few weeks, but for now, I can already see my wife's attitude change.

:woop: :woop:

Should Mom pump after breast feeding? Baby looks quite content but she said she still feels a bit heavy.

That is awesome!! I've heard of people using nipple shields up to 3-4 months old, so if the baby or your wife don't feel ready in a couple of weeks to wean off of it, they still have time. :)

dreamcatcherkwe
Apr 14, 2005
Dreamcatcher

MarshallX posted:

Oh my god, the breast shield was a godsend. It worked the first time we tried it with the Public Health Nurse after exhausting all other options for breast feeding. We just sat down to feed again and he went right on.

The nurse plans to help ween him off it in a few weeks, but for now, I can already see my wife's attitude change.

:woop: :woop:

Should Mom pump after breast feeding? Baby looks quite content but she said she still feels a bit heavy.

She doesn't have to pump unless she wants to save milk up; she can freeze the milk for later. If she's uncomfortable, she can express just a little so she doesn't increase her supply too much.

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Fantasmo
Dec 19, 2008

by Fistgrrl
My wife is getting upset because our 6 week old seems to enjoy being left on his back more than being held. He'll pay more attention to us when we play with him on his back, but fusses within a couple minutes of being held. It's really making her sad. Also it's hard to maintain eye contact while holding him. He just looks around everywhere.

Has anyone else gone through this? Is it normal?

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