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workape posted:What's really fun is reading some of the Architect position requirements. CCIE, CCDE, CISSP, multiple GIAC certs. Pay? $75k/year. Yeah, I have seen positions (In Texas, San Antonio mind you) for 75K with just a CCNA and five years of experience. I also have seen them go as "low" as 45K as well. Generally a "Baby's first" Net Engi job here goes for roughly 50-60K. I have seen job postings for someone with a CCIE and 75K, which confuses the hell out of me. Am I wrong in thinking that if I have a CCIE I could probably find a position that was a six figure job?
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Apr 12, 2011 15:00
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If someone has spent the time and effort to get that level of certification, that really ought to be quarterly pay there, not year.
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Given that there's only about 50 CCDEs right now, anyone writing a job description that requires a CCDE is an idiot.
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Apr 12, 2011 15:03
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inignot posted:Given that there's only about 50 CCDEs right now, anyone writing a job description that requires a CCDE is an idiot. Would you really expect anything different out of HR groups? Back on topic, has anyone here done an AnyConnect 3.0 rollout? Looking at the features, it looks nice, but I am curious how they are actually mapping to the real world.
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Apr 12, 2011 15:10
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Yes. CCIEs are talking 150+ and that's here in Australia. Unless you got some time-wasting HR fuckwit who heard the acronyms somewhere and a buzzword can't be bad right? Be brutal as gently caress. These are my certs and experience, what are you going to pay me, what do the offices look like, what are the perks? Any umming and ahhing or unsatisfactory answers, burn em and move onto the next offer. Don't waste time you could be getting real experience and progressing your career with wanna-be firms Dilute this advice as required if your not as marketable as the next guy
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Apr 12, 2011 15:11
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Tony Montana posted:Yes. CCIEs are talking 150+ and that's here in Australia. I imagine one day, when I have a CCIE and a bunch of experience, I'll be kicking down the door demanding cold hard cash just for showin' up!. Then I will be all  but right now I am just a baby. 
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Apr 12, 2011 15:20
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IT titles are pretty amorphous. One organizations senior engineer is another organizations junior / janitor.
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Apr 12, 2011 15:51
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Where I work everyone is an engineer - Network Engineer, NOC Engineer, HR Engineer, Sales Engineer etc.. we atleast have "senior engineers" but they only deal with projects. I'm just glad everyone here above the NOC is legitimately intelligent, not just paper intelligent.
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Apr 12, 2011 18:08
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For those that know more about Cisco, are they slowly losing a lot of money? Is Juniper starting to out perform them? I don't know much about stocks, its something I have been getting into slowly in the past year, but I saw their shares and they dropped from 26 dollars to like 17 in the past year. They also just announced they are dropping their "Flip" camera line. I didn't know they had a Flip camera line haha! Do you guys see Juniper starting to take Cisco's steam?
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Apr 12, 2011 20:23
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Bardlebee posted:For those that know more about Cisco, are they slowly losing a lot of money? Is Juniper starting to out perform them? Virtualization is hurting them as well. When you can run 50 servers on one machine you don't need a bunch of switches to connect them all.
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Apr 12, 2011 20:37
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Bardlebee posted:For those that know more about Cisco, are they slowly losing a lot of money? Is Juniper starting to out perform them? I think personally that Flip was the retarded move that they made to try and get into the consumer space. Their acquisitions of Flip and Linksys were just plain stupid. You are a core routing and switching company with other BU's focusing on things like wireless and security, you should not be looking to be cutesy and sell to the average consumer. From what I've seen, the Juniper message looks to be really targeting service providers not really enterprises. Although, their kit is really appealing in some places and I'd love to get some driving time on JunOS outside of the Olive setup I tinkered around with. Bob Morales posted:Virtualization is hurting them as well. When you can run 50 servers on one machine you don't need a bunch of switches to connect them all. That's why they've got UCS and the Nexus 1k.
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Apr 12, 2011 20:41
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Should we as network engineers be concerned about job availability in the future with virtualization and these new occurrences?
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Apr 12, 2011 20:46
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Bardlebee posted:Should we as network engineers be concerned about job availability in the future with virtualization and these new occurrences? Someone has to learn virtual switches 
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Apr 12, 2011 20:48
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I actually spoke with my Cisco territory manager today, and asked him what was up. It sounds like Cisco is restructuring some business units internally, to bring them inline with more broad product categories (ie., mobility, collaboration, blah blah). I expect them to ditch most of their consumer units, probably by selling off the organization off. Nexus 3k and stuff is coming to compete with the lower latency Arista / Juniper stuff, Nexus is getting new linecards, modules, fabric, services modules. Unified Compute stuff is still going strong, Cisco is pushing their Tandberg acquisition pretty hard. I think they're in fine shape, just going in too many directions simultaneously. Oh, they claim Sup2T this year for 6500...
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Apr 12, 2011 20:51
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Bardlebee posted:Should we as network engineers be concerned about job availability in the future with virtualization and these new occurrences? Short answer? No. Long answer? Yes.
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Apr 12, 2011 20:53
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Bob Morales posted:Someone has to learn virtual switches Would you believe me if I said I had no idea what virtual switch technology was? Any buzz words I can google? I know that in my new job (if they call me back for christ sake!) they are using really new Nexus stuff.
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Apr 12, 2011 20:56
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You should read up on the Nexus product portfolio, and understand what problems it was designed to solve in the datacenter. Some of that should involve understanding the platform limitations of the equipment the Nexus is built to supplant. For instance, look at 10gig price per-port on the 6500 platform, and then look at 10gig price per-port on the Nexus line. And look at the architectural limitations of the 6500. And look at why Cisco is pushing FCoE so hard. Cisco makes a product called the Nexus 1000V, which is a software ios that resides in the VM hypervisor, enabling you to manage up your ESX soft-switch in an IOS-y way. At least, that's the theory.
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Apr 12, 2011 21:16
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Bardlebee posted:Would you believe me if I said I had no idea what virtual switch technology was? Any buzz words I can google? http://www.vmware.com/files/pdf/virtual_networking_concepts.pdf
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Apr 12, 2011 21:17
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jwh posted:Oh, they claim Sup2T this year for 6500... My SE thought it was already out.
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Apr 13, 2011 00:57
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Bardlebee posted:I imagine one day, when I have a CCIE and a bunch of experience, I'll be kicking down the door demanding cold hard cash just for showin' up!. You won't get a CCIE. Bardlebee posted:Should we as network engineers be concerned about job availability in the future with virtualization and these new occurrences? Learn servers. Then work for a firm that does IaaS (that's usually consulting firms, not internal IT) and embrace the cloud because you are the cloud. Layer 4 and down gets pretty mundane quickly, and you don't need to be a coder to understand and play with the higher layers.
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Apr 13, 2011 01:01
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Tony Montana posted:You won't get a CCIE. I don't understand what you mean by this post here. Is the CCIE a waste of time or by that time its pointless?
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Apr 13, 2011 01:16
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Tony Montana posted:Layer 4 and down gets pretty mundane quickly, and you don't need to be a coder to understand and play with the higher layers. What's the largest environment you've been involved in to make that comment?. Layer <= 3 networking in a small/mid enterprise environment is no fun- however that changes significantly once you enter the realm of SP networking, or large enterprise, and you start getting to use things like BGP and MPLS. Unless you're jwh in which case it means you get to deal with the braindead server guys who don't realize why it's a bad idea to extend a layer 2 between datacenters on different coasts.
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Apr 13, 2011 01:18
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Tony Montana posted:I like how on the same page, no less, we've got someone looking for a Senior Network Admin and someone looking for Junior. I only say that because I don't want people to get scared off by the requirements: * 3+ years of hands-on experience supporting a large nationwide Cisco LAN/WAN environment is required * Experience with Cisco Call Manager configuration and support preferred * Experience with non-Cisco telephone systems/ PBX * Excellent analytical, troubleshooting, problems solving skills required * Strong understanding of Windows networking in an enterprise environment * Excellent interpersonal, written, verbal presentation and time management skills * Must work well in a team environment At this point, we would be willing to take a senior OR a junior. The theory is let us phone screen the person and bring them in for an interview. Right away we will pretty much know if they suck or not.The problem is no good candidates are down here in Southwest Florida and no one wants to relocate here. Here is one of the projects we have been working on: New data center infrastructure that will soon be home to all production apps- -2x NEXUS 7000s housing redundant MPLS links connecting to a WAN of 150 sites and 2 500Mb Metro Ethernet links to the Central billing Office -2x NEXUS 5000s -4x NEXUS 4000s (in IBM Blade Centers) -4x 2148t's -2x ASA 5520s in active-standby -2x 3925s running multihomed BGP via 2 ISPs utilizing least cost routing to the Internet and redundancy for remote sites connecting via DMVPN -2x 7200s running dual-hub Dynamic VPN with mGRE tunnels and EIGRP for remote sites. (This is the backup network to the MPLS) The stuff we get to play with is awesome. I wouldn't worry about the firm because our revenue for 2010 was almost $500 million and it is a medical company. We have hired 6 people in IT in the last 8 months and this position is one of the last to fill. I don't want upper management to pull the req (hence the desperate tone). PM me more if you want more information. BoNNo530 fucked around with this message at 01:46 on Apr 13, 2011 |
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Apr 13, 2011 01:40
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Bardlebee posted:I don't understand what you mean by this post here. Is the CCIE a waste of time or by that time its pointless? There are only something like 25,000 CCIE's in the world (I'm probably off one way or the other). You need thousands of dollars in lab equipment, thousands in books and tests, and even more in time and travel to actually take the test.
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Apr 13, 2011 01:58
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Bob Morales posted:There are only something like 25,000 CCIE's in the world (I'm probably off one way or the other). You need thousands of dollars in lab equipment, thousands in books and tests, and even more in time and travel to actually take the test. http://www.ccie4you.info/wordpress/ http://ccie-in-3-months.blogspot.com/ As long as you have the passion, you can get it. ragzilla posted:What's the largest environment you've been involved in to make that comment?. Layer <= 3 networking in a small/mid enterprise environment is no fun- however that changes significantly once you enter the realm of SP networking, or large enterprise, and you start getting to use things like BGP and MPLS. I just finished the Skillport CCIP video for MPLS/VPN architectures. I have a good grasp overall on how MPLS works from the PE end. As soon as I get my GNS server working again, I cant wait to build some labs I've seen online so I can see more into the core side. I'm going to watch them one more time for notes and move on to BGP. It's pretty awesome how things come together and make sense.
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Apr 13, 2011 02:20
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It means most people that start out in networking see the CCIE and go 'oh yeah, one day'. The reality is it's so hard and rarely done that people that have been in networking a while understand this. I did the same thing, mate. CCIE is pretty much the most heavy-weight and valuable qualification an infrastructure person can have. Unix and Microsoft server guys still pretty much get their jobs on experience, while networking gurus can just wave the CCIE and people bow. The trick with the CCIE is Cisco's partner programs. You probably already know for the lower levels of partnership with Cisco you need so many CCNAs on staff, perhaps a CCNP or two. But for the gold level partnership (or whatever it is now) you need a number of CCIEs on staff. This partnership entitles the company buy Cisco kit, directly from Cisco, at huge discounts. Obviously the intention is that the firm is a major player in the local networking scene and a reseller of Cisco, with more talent on board and able to buy the kit cheaper than it's competitors. Cisco wins because it's kit is being put in by people that won't gently caress it up and make their brand look bad. So, for major telcos that buy hundreds of thousands of dollars (millions perhaps) of routing and switching equipment almost annually, you need that partner status as part of you business model. So when you're the CCIE and get another offer, and tell your firm you're going to leave, obviously this has implications beyond just finding another network jockey. Cisco recently introduced measure to stop CCIEs registering themselves with multiple companies, 'working' for all of them, taking a nice kickback from each and never actually rocking up just because it'd help them with partner status. So yeah, in reality the CCIE is a magical thing and you'll rarely run into people that have done it, let alone do it yourself. Once you're there you should be earning enough and have a cushy enough job to not have to worry about your career anymore. Go and Google the CCIE and learn what is required, then read some horror stories of people taking the practical exam (lots more people have passed the written).
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Apr 13, 2011 02:26
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ragzilla posted:What's the largest environment you've been involved in to make that comment?. Layer <= 3 networking in a small/mid enterprise environment is no fun- however that changes significantly once you enter the realm of SP networking, or large enterprise, and you start getting to use things like BGP and MPLS. As big as they come, energy corporations, Government, health, etc. Thousands of seats. I've played with MPLS I'm just a server guy too, because I'm a consultant not internal IT. We spurn 'silos' of knowledge, when someone says 'but how can you know it all?!' we point to one of our super-engineers and smile. One of our guys is beyond CCNP level, basically very experienced and certified Cisco guy (just finished all the UCS certs) just short of CCIE and knows simliar amounts about ProCurves and Junipers. Then you start tapping his software knowledge, Microsoft and Unix, and it's scary he knows all that too, beyond MSCE levels, and will happily spec up an AD environment with a zillion DCs and a complicated Exchange infrastructure. Then he can apply all of that to Unix, with flavours such as HPUX and Solaris. Oh yeah, he's pretty across storage too, NetApp being our partner. So yeah, networks are fine and all and I enjoy it, don't get me wrong. You've gotta have that foundation to understand how it all hangs together. But once you've learned that, you come back now and then to learn whatever new poo poo Cisco is rolling out (UCS), but there is no reason you can't work up the stack too. It's a lot of work, but it's more satisfying and I get a kick out of it. That's just my take on IT. It's the services that are being delivered over the networks that make them cool.
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Apr 13, 2011 02:42
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CCIE is a really hard cert, and while there have only been around 25K CCIE's there are probably only half of those that are active and current. However for many netwokring people it becomes an Everest goal. And for those (like jwh) and other people I work with, there is too much else going on to ever make time for the CCIE. So yea, make it a goal, but realize that the more you know, the more experience you ahve, the more valuable you are and the less time you have to even think about the CCIE. Its a double edged sword.
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Apr 13, 2011 04:43
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Powercrazy posted:CCIE is a really hard cert, and while there have only been around 25K CCIE's there are probably only half of those that are active and current. Thanks guys for your insight, especially Tony. A lot of that make sense and I can see the romanticized version of all that. I don't think I would do it for the money, I am kinda a "do it for self-fulfillment" kind of guy. Sort of like getting my PhD when it really won't help me professionally. My mood and mind may change in the next five years, as many people do, but right now I am as Tony stated "Oh yeah, that's gonna be me one day."
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Apr 13, 2011 05:08
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Tony Montana posted:...when someone says 'but how can you know it all?!' we point to one of our super-engineers and smile. One of our guys is beyond CCNP level, basically very experienced and certified Cisco guy (just finished all the UCS certs) just short of CCIE and knows simliar amounts about ProCurves and Junipers. Then you start tapping his software knowledge, Microsoft and Unix, and it's scary he knows all that too, beyond MSCE levels, and will happily spec up an AD environment with a zillion DCs and a complicated Exchange infrastructure. Then he can apply all of that to Unix, with flavours such as HPUX and Solaris. Oh yeah, he's pretty across storage too, NetApp being our partner. Someone who can do this, and actually do it well, is rarest of all. However using this as an idealized career model is less plausible then a new CCNA hoping to ultimately become a CCIE.
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Apr 13, 2011 12:19
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Tony Montana posted:You won't get a CCIE. I do not appreciate your viewpoint sir, that dude is obviously quite new to the field and advising him to split his focus between networking and servers is tempting him to be mediocre at both. At the end of the day a CCIE who knows routing and switching is more valuable than a dude who knows most of it + some server stuff. Leave layer 4+ to the server guys, or until after you get your CCIE and you have considered yourself a master of all things networking. I may be biased because I'm going for my CCIE this year and I hate doing server work.
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Apr 13, 2011 13:34
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inignot posted:Someone who can do this, and actually do it well, is rarest of all. However using this as an idealized career model is less plausible then a new CCNA hoping to ultimately become a CCIE. The term often used is Solution Architect. It's not so bad, you can get a VCP in a week, get to a CCNP level in months, do a MSCA or whatever they call it now in months, and there is a RedHat cert too. Probably all less in the three years to do a bachelors (which I've done too, but I don't have all those certs I've just listed). Then work for a consulting firm that throw you in different networks and technologies daily for a few years and pretty soon you're comfortable on almost anything you'll find out there. Oh yeah, get the NetApp cert too, apparently that's much easier than a CCNA. abigserve posted:I do not appreciate your viewpoint sir, that dude is obviously quite new to the field and advising him to split his focus between networking and servers is tempting him to be mediocre at both. I think the reality is very few people will get that CCIE, so saying 'get the CCIE first then think of branching out' isn't good advice. For us implementing IaaS we're more interested in someone that knows UCS and can integrate it with storage and server technologies, rather than a route/switch CCIE. I don't hate server work, I used to be a coder. What I hate is doing any one thing so much that I get bored with it, I enjoy the challenge of different networks, disciplines and technologies. Here is another thing. If you want to be a guru, really peak in a specialization and do that to the enth level, do you realize the sort of people you're up against in IT? We are talking people that don't wash, have no friends, have never touched a girl and think about nothing, constantly than thier chosen nerdom. Playing video games and wearing mullets and stained tee-shirts into their forties, you should see some of our Unix guys. I'm just not, and never will be, one of those people. I don't want to be either, I don't want to outnerd the supernerds. I've worked with a CCIE, he wore a mickey mouse tie daily and had some breathing thing that if someone wore too much deodorant he'd get all wheezy and have to go home. Tony Montana fucked around with this message at 14:16 on Apr 13, 2011 |
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Apr 13, 2011 14:13
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Tony Montana posted:Here is another thing. If you want to be a guru, really peak in a specialization and do that to the enth level, do you realize the sort of people you're up against in IT? We are talking people that don't wash, have no friends, have never touched a girl and think about nothing, constantly than thier chosen nerdom. Playing video games and wearing mullets and stained tee-shirts into their forties, you should see some of our Unix guys. I'm just not, and never will be, one of those people. I don't want to be either, I don't want to outnerd the supernerds. That goes for almost any field. You should have seen some of the architects I used to work with. One day you realize you're never going to be 'that good' unless you make a ton of sacrifices. It's not like those guys are going to some router at NASA, typing in a few lines, linking up to the space shuttle, getting a $50,000 check and then going home and partying with cocaine and strippers.
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Apr 13, 2011 14:25
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I work with an incredibly intelligent CCIE who looks normal, smells normal and has a family so one bad apple doesn't spoil the bunch..
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Apr 13, 2011 14:27
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I wouldn't get too down on it, a CCIE is do-able if you actually dedicate yourself to learning. There was a group of guys here local in St Louis who I got together with and we put together a small mailing list to help each other out with studying as we all have experience in different areas. We started with 12 guys, we are down to 3 and I think that another one will be dropping soon because he took one look at MPLS and said "oh gently caress that". Not everyone going for that level is a mouthbreathing weirdo. That isn't to say that I haven't encountered my fair share of those, seriously is it too much to request that you take a shower before going out in public here? If you really want to make a ton of cash, look into VCE support. If you can do EMC, Cisco and VMWare at a high enough level all at once there are integrators looking for people who can do this.
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Apr 13, 2011 14:28
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Sepist posted:I work with an incredibly intelligent CCIE who looks normal, smells normal and has a family so one bad apple doesn't spoil the bunch.. This guy says it well Bob Morales posted:That goes for almost any field. You should have seen some of the architects I used to work with. One day you realize you're never going to be 'that good' unless you make a ton of sacrifices. It's not like those guys are going to some router at NASA, typing in a few lines, linking up to the space shuttle, getting a $50,000 check and then going home and partying with cocaine and strippers. I just feel I can make a lot of money and be relatively high up the tree, by combining multiple disciplines rather than dominate one. I think it requires less life sacrifice as well. Like this guy says.. workape posted:If you really want to make a ton of cash, look into VCE support. If you can do EMC, Cisco and VMWare at a high enough level all at once there are integrators looking for people who can do this. We do NetApp instead of EMC, but whatever, we do EMC to actually but just don't have the partnership with HP. workape posted:I wouldn't get too down on it, a CCIE is do-able if you actually dedicate yourself to learning. There was a group of guys here local in St Louis who I got together with and we put together a small mailing list to help each other out with studying as we all have experience in different areas. We started with 12 guys, we are down to 3 and I think that another one will be dropping soon because he took one look at MPLS and said "oh gently caress that". Got your CCIEs yet? How far off are you? workape posted:Not everyone going for that level is a mouthbreathing weirdo. That isn't to say that I haven't encountered my fair share of those, seriously is it too much to request that you take a shower before going out in public here? I've found them all to be 'weird' though, just some have the decency to wash and have found an equally nerdy wife. I just don't want to spend all my days with those guys either, yeah IT is cool and all and I love the tech, but there really is other things in life..
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Apr 13, 2011 14:39
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Tony Montana posted:Got your CCIEs yet? How far off are you? By my count there are five CCIEs already in SH/SC. Tony Montana posted:It's not so bad, you can get a VCP in a week, get to a CCNP level in months, do a MSCA or whatever they call it now in months, and there is a RedHat cert too. Probably all less in the three years to do a bachelors (which I've done too, but I don't have all those certs I've just listed). Then work for a consulting firm that throw you in different networks and technologies daily for a few years and pretty soon you're comfortable on almost anything you'll find out there. Oh yeah, get the NetApp cert too, apparently that's much easier than a CCNA. I don't doubt that someone could collect all those certs in the time you describe. I do doubt that many people are going to be able to work a windows project for a month, a firewall/ids project next month, a san project the next month, a linux project the next month, a wan project the next month, and database project the next month, and then a website development the month after WHILE maintaining a high level of expertise across all those divergent disciplines. If you're that one guy, great. I maintain that's not a realistic career path to recommend to others. Although it's entirely possible you're describing working for a small business integration shop. I worked for one of those about twelve years ago. And there was a lot bouncing around between windows end workstations, windows servers, netware, and lan/wan stuff. I gained a lot of experience in a small amount of time. But those were all individually very small projects for small companies. You'll never see MPLS in a dentist's office though. Tony Montana posted:The term often used is Solution Architect.
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Apr 13, 2011 15:05
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It may be the fact htat I was a Cisco SE, but all the hardcore networking guys have been adept socialites who I'd party with until the wee hours. Probably the worst people I've met having to do with networking were the "techs." Basically the people who don't know any networking and just have a walled garden where they can enable some ports for users without breaking anything important. They have no motivation, don't know anything, and don't want to learn. They also happen to have an aversion to all things "Micro$oft" and don't understand what spanning tree is. Once you get beyond that level however, the network guys are pretty normal/laid back people. YMMV.
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Apr 13, 2011 15:05
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Tony Montana posted:Got your CCIEs yet? How far off are you? By my estimation, I am about 6-8 months out if my study time table holds I'll be ready for the written then. We had some extra cash around so I picked up the IPExpert BLS to help for my lab part as well. My bookshelf is growing at a good rate here, if I could just keep the rest of the team from raiding it all the time. I think that the hardest part of this really is looking at the depth of material required and not freaking out. Taking it piece by piece until you understand and are able to use what you have learned has been working well for me since there are some areas that I haven't even gotten to work with such as Multicast.
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Apr 13, 2011 15:18
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workape posted:By my estimation, I am about 6-8 months out if my study time table holds I'll be ready for the written then. We had some extra cash around so I picked up the IPExpert BLS to help for my lab part as well. My bookshelf is growing at a good rate here, if I could just keep the rest of the team from raiding it all the time. How long have you been working on this?
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Apr 13, 2011 15:28
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Just want to share a baby CCNA story with you all. I am currently in a course up in Canada for IT and one of the classes is Networking where we get our CCNA 1. We had to choose a stream to specialize in and I went Web Developer but Networking is really fun and yesterday made me somewhat regret my choice. We are finishing up Chapter 11 in CCNA -- command line programming for routers. So during our lab we had to hook up some routers to our laptops and configure them so myself and partner could ping each other. After about 1 hour the joy of pinging each other was insane. "HOLY HELL IT'S WORKING!" Once we had routed the proper IP's and could ping both the serial and fast ethernet ports, we were overjoyed. I swear it must have sounded like the nerdiest room with exuberant cheers for pinging poo poo but gently caress me if it wasn't a nice pang of joy a week before finals. Now if anyone has tips for the CCNA quiz, I'd be happy.  EDIT: Paper of success: 
Vintersorg fucked around with this message at 15:37 on Apr 13, 2011 |
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Apr 13, 2011 15:32
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