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Vegard posted:Nogueira is a saint and even he lost his temper on TUF. I have no idea what you want from the man. To not break people's arms and get Chute Boxe in trouble for it.
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Apr 15, 2011 01:20
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henkman posted:The original question was about wrestling in an MMA context, hence the term "MMA Wrestler". Josh is better. German suplexes performed in an MMA context - Koscheck: 0 Severn: 2 Severn is clearly the superior wrestler
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Apr 15, 2011 01:22
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Well, with that bit of information yes, Dan Severn is a better MMA wrestler.
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Apr 15, 2011 01:23
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Former UFC Superfight Champion Dangerous Dan The Beast Severn is 52 years old, 98-16-7 and recently won the prestigious Elite-1 MMA Heavyweight Championship. In addition, he defeated the seasoned veteran Cal Worsham via unanimous decision in February. He already has 2 fights scheduled within the next month. Has Josh Koscheck ever won a belt in MMA?
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Apr 15, 2011 01:46
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henkman posted:To not break people's arms and get Chute Boxe in trouble for it. Sometimes these things happen in MMA.
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Apr 15, 2011 01:53
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henkman posted:To not break people's arms and get Chute Boxe in trouble for it. To be fair to Coleman, I really don`t think he realized Shoguns arm was injured. Once he stepped back a realized, the only reason he got all angry and roid-ragey was because someone from Shogun`s corner (Ninja?) was in his face and shouting at him. I can understand both sides being upset but its not like Coleman purposely double legged Shogun so his arm would break and a riot would happen.
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Apr 15, 2011 04:21
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He a threw tiny japanese ref to the side like he was Brett Rogers. That's not something the World's Nicest Man Would do
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Apr 15, 2011 04:30
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henkman posted:He a threw tiny japanese ref to the side like he was Brett Rogers. That's not something the World's Nicest Man Would do
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Apr 15, 2011 05:34
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I'm merely interested in the well-being of MMA. A roidraging purple Ohioan is not good for this sport. Anyone who loses to Randy Couture is not good for this sport.
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Apr 15, 2011 05:42
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Chuck Lidell has been terrible for the sport of MMA
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Apr 15, 2011 05:46
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He later beat Randy. Twice. He's a good man doing God's work.
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Apr 15, 2011 05:47
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henkman posted:He later beat Randy. Twice. He's a good man doing God's work. that's a much better avatar, kudos
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Apr 15, 2011 08:41
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Alright, an actual combat sports question. Say you're Dan Hardy training for GSP. He's going to wrestle the poo poo out you, if he gets on top of you, that round is essentially over. Your striking isn't sharp enough to be competitive, and you don't have that one-shot KO power to even make it a hail mary option. Why wouldn't you just train kneeing people in the face everytime they shoot a double? Just stink up the joint circling backwards, and the second you see his shoulders drop, throw the knee. Isn't this essentially the strategy employed in the Aoki/Anime match?
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Apr 15, 2011 09:19
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I'd say that against a smart fighter like GSP that's a great way to lose a decision.
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Apr 15, 2011 10:34
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Street Horrrsing posted:Alright, an actual combat sports question. I tend to agree, I would also train the gently caress out of guillotines or any sub you can hopefully snatch off a takedown.
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Apr 15, 2011 10:38
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Except GSP isn't stupid and the first time he sees that he's just going to stay standing and out point you.
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Apr 15, 2011 10:50
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Street Horrrsing posted:Isn't this essentially the strategy employed in the Aoki/Anime match? Aoki doesn't have a great chin and started the round off by shooting from several feet away (his wrestling is okay but he doesn't have a shot like Chael or GSP, and his standup isn't good enough to help him close the distance on a K-1 level striker) The other thing about a gameplan revolving around kneeing a wrestler is that if you aren't fast enough or if the other guy's chin is good enough, they WILL put you on your back. IIRC Mir hurt Brock with a knee in their rematch, but essentially gave Brock a free takedown which he used to finish the fight just a minute later.
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Apr 15, 2011 14:52
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watch Franca vs Sherk to see how well that strategy can work against people who can wrestle while unconscious. Franca got in a hard knee at least once every round, he kneed Sherk's brains out 5 seperate times, it didn't matter. Sherk would complete the shot, then compose himself while holding hermes on his back.
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Apr 15, 2011 15:22
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Isn't the "knee counter shot" or a variation an argument typically used by traditional martial artists for why grapplers are the suck. Needless to say, the very existence of MMA today is due to martial artists getting schooled on myths like the one above. Besides, it seems like a strategy for making you incredibly vulnerable to a feint.
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Apr 15, 2011 16:57
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The knee counter shot is a great idea if you're a deluded strip-mall karate student and you think that a double-leg takedown is executed by bending over and walking forward to grab the legs, instead of actually shooting for them. See also wing chun "anti-grappling."
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Apr 15, 2011 18:44
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Halloween Jack posted:The knee counter shot is a great idea if you're a deluded strip-mall karate student and you think that a double-leg takedown is executed by bending over and walking forward to grab the legs, instead of actually shooting for them. See also wing chun "anti-grappling." the best part about this stuff is when they show it "working" by having another karate guy do some piss poor shot. imagine the inverse: "Yes you see striking doesn't work, as my bjj buddy here will demonstrate my ineffectively windmilling at me with his noodle arms. See, nothing happened."
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Apr 15, 2011 20:00
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Street Horrrsing posted:Say you're Dan Hardy training for GSP. if you're dan hardy you don't acknowledge these things
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Apr 15, 2011 20:01
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Xguard86 posted:the best part about this stuff is when they show it "working" by having another karate guy do some piss poor shot. Wait, actually, I'm pretty sure I've read some BJJ books where you're advised to duck the lovely punch, hug, trip takedown and go from there.
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Apr 15, 2011 20:05
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Haraksha posted:Except GSP isn't stupid and the first time he sees that he's just going to stay standing and out point you. But that's good for the Dan Hardys of the world. While GSP is a better striker than Dan Hardy, his advantage on the feet is much smaller than his advantage in top position.
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Apr 15, 2011 20:09
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Halloween Jack posted:Wait, actually, I'm pretty sure I've read some BJJ books where you're advised to duck the lovely punch, hug, trip takedown and go from there. The major difference there is you can watch Gracies in Action 1 and 2 and see hours worth of examples of them doing exactly that
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Apr 15, 2011 20:15
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Yeah I kind of like hug trips. They're not exactly unsuccessful in MMA.
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Apr 16, 2011 01:05
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it combines two of the greatest things in MMA, hugging and a takedown, to create an even greater thing, ground hugging 
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Apr 16, 2011 01:20
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fence hugging is the best hugging because it allows you to press your hips sensuously into another man to maintain a "dominant position" on him. edit: split infinitive
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Apr 16, 2011 02:11
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Maybe I'm wrong but body lock takedowns seem pretty under-used, Forrest loveses them, so does Machida but I can't think of too man other fighters who use them prevalently, Jones just tosses bitches to the side.
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Apr 16, 2011 04:03
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BlindSite posted:Maybe I'm wrong but body lock takedowns seem pretty under-used, Forrest loveses them, so does Machida but I can't think of too man other fighters who use them prevalently, Jones just tosses bitches to the side.    
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Apr 16, 2011 17:47
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Speaking of the above, I know judo guys tend to be really ineffective against American-style wrestlers in general, but I'm wondering if they do noticeably better against Greco wrestlers because of their clinch-based takedowns.
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Apr 16, 2011 18:41
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they do worse
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Apr 16, 2011 21:01
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Jack of Hearts posted:Speaking of the above, I know judo guys tend to be really ineffective against American-style wrestlers in general, but I'm wondering if they do noticeably better against Greco wrestlers because of their clinch-based takedowns.  (yeah I know Josh isn't really a greco guy, but still)
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Apr 16, 2011 21:09
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where's a rulon gif
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Apr 16, 2011 23:04
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too large of a file size
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Apr 16, 2011 23:17
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ForbiddenWonder posted:too large of a file size 
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Apr 17, 2011 06:15
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Why is Japanese MMA in such a terrible state? I used to watch Pride during its heyday, and while I know that it collapsed due to Yakuza scandals and losing their TV deals, I don't really know why all the other promotions seem to be in such bad financial health. What happened to collapse the Japanese MMA business? Why did Dream and Sengoku never really take off? Why is K1 seemingly on the verge of collapse?
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Apr 17, 2011 10:15
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It's a pretty complicated situation. The way I understand it is that it's hard to get financing because even though it's not as bad as it was at the end of Pride, the Yakuza are still involved to some degree and people want to avoid working with them. There also haven't been any crossover stars recently. Basically, Japanese MMA would really benefit from someone who is already famous transitioning to MMA in order to create interest in the sport again.
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Apr 17, 2011 13:40
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Japan like's milking it's old stars instead of building new one's, and all their old stars have left/are walking corpses. Not that the UFC doesn't do that to some extent too, but it's a lot worse over there. They do their matchmaking........differently. Lack of public interest and lack of money. Someone who's been around for longer than I have can probably go in depth.
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Apr 17, 2011 18:16
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Jack of Hearts posted:Speaking of the above, I know judo guys tend to be really ineffective against American-style wrestlers in general, but I'm wondering if they do noticeably better against Greco wrestlers because of their clinch-based takedowns. the lack of gi really kills the judo guys. You have to be very good at Judo, facing a not-very-good grappler. Plus, it seems like a lot of those throws end up with the thrower on the bottom, or scrambling, which is not good. Greco on the other hand translate very well to MMA. Especially as fighters get older, probably because it requires less athleticism and speed, with more static strength plus timing and trickiness.
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Apr 18, 2011 16:30
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