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LARGE THE HEAD
Sep 1, 2009

"Competitive greatness is when you play your best against the best."

"Learn as if you were to live forever; live as if you were to die tomorrow."

--John Wooden

A drat FOG posted:

Glenn Beck is insane and deluded but I don't recall him ever blaming the victim of a horrific violent crime for what happened to them (though to be fair it's not like I watch him regularly)

I'm not whiteknighting Beck, just highlighting the depths of awfulness that article reached.

I'm not completely sure you're correct.

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stuart scott
Mar 9, 2007

That's one of my favorite Onion things ever

Tender Bender
Sep 17, 2004

Toona the Cat posted:

directly attributed to the obscene number (70%) of black kids being born out of wedlock

Are you guys quoting the same article or does he reference this in like everything he writes?

LARGE THE HEAD
Sep 1, 2009

"Competitive greatness is when you play your best against the best."

"Learn as if you were to live forever; live as if you were to die tomorrow."

--John Wooden

Tender Bender posted:

Are you guys quoting the same article or does he reference this in like everything he writes?

The latter. He never once referenced an article.

I'm interested in goons' opinions on the piece about BYU that Deadspin just released but we can't stop this Stiegerwald train :allears:

Dr_Strangelove
Dec 16, 2003

Mein Fuhrer! THEY WON!

New thread title rules.

e: So, the BYU Honor Code isn't enforced equally, and is inequitable toward non-Mormon black athletes? How incredibly shocking!

And the school and its representatives don't fully advise new recruits of the code, nor the consequences of breaking it? :monocle:

Dr_Strangelove fucked around with this message at 21:41 on Apr 13, 2011

morestuff
Aug 2, 2008

You can't stop what's coming

LARGE THE HEAD posted:

I'm interested in goons' opinions on the piece about BYU that Deadspin just released but we can't stop this Stiegerwald train :allears:

I think the reporting is good, but I had some issues with the tone, particularly the section discussing the church's history with minorities. There's nothing wrong with having a perspective, but I always think that in a story like this you undercut yourself when you drift into making black-and-white declarations like they do.

Mornacale
Dec 19, 2007

n=y where
y=hope and n=folly,
prospects=lies, win=lose,

self=Pirates
BYU is terrible, discussion over.

haljordan
Oct 22, 2004

the corpse of god is love.






Mornacale posted:

BYU is terrible, discussion over.

Try being from the same area as Jimmer Fredette. I hope he gets hit by a meteor in the off-season. If he makes it as an NBA player I will probably have to kill myself to escape the news coverage.

Mornacale
Dec 19, 2007

n=y where
y=hope and n=folly,
prospects=lies, win=lose,

self=Pirates

haljordan posted:

Try being from the same area as Jimmer Fredette. I hope he gets hit by a meteor in the off-season. If he makes it as an NBA player I will probably have to kill myself to escape the news coverage.

Fredette about it

Deathlove
Feb 20, 2003

Pillbug
I haven't seen Gendo's avatar in a while, kinda want to switch it with a screengrab of Steigerwald spinning a basketball.

Crazy Ted
Jul 29, 2003

Want to see what passed for Sports-Illustrated-Level writing in 1957?

SURE YOU DO!

quote:

Fame Is For Winners
A PREJUDICED BASEBALL FAN ARGUES FOR RESTRICTING THE HALL OF FAME TO PLAYERS WHO WON AND LAYING TO REST THE COBB SYNDROME

James Murray

It is the considered opinion of most baseball fans that the greatest player who ever lived was either a) Ty Cobb or b) Babe Ruth. Right at the outset of this essay, I would like to lay the controversy at rest once and for all. The greatest player was Babe Ruth.

How can you be sure, you may ask. Was it because he hit more home runs? Could pitch, too? No. It was because he won. It's that simple.

In Ruth's 15 years with the New York Yankees, the team won seven pennants, four world championships. In Ruth's six seasons with the Boston Red Sox, the team won three pennants, three world championships. In short, Ruth was a winner.

In Ty Cobb's 22 years with Detroit, the Tigers won three pennants, no world championships. In Cobb's two years with Philadelphia, the Athletics won no championships. In short, Cobb was a loser.


It is not the purpose of this thesis to examine solely the relative merits of Babe Ruth vs. Ty Cobb. But it is my intention to claim that baseball's Hall of Fame and the honor rolls of the sport generally are barnacled with athletes who, like Cobb, were able to hang up an impressive number of personal achievements which, on the face of the record, meant little whatsoever to the teams they played for.

The object of baseball, after all, is to win the pennant and world championship. Cobb's record of three pennants in 24 seasons—all in the first five years of his baseball life—presupposes something was wrong with the great Cobb as a team player. It is not unreasonable to expect that, somewhere along the line, a lifetime batting average of .367 (highest in baseball), 12 batting championships, batting averages of over .400 three times and over .300 for 23 years, and the most total hits in history, 4,191, would translate themselves into a long succession of championships.

That they didn't argues that Cobb's admitted individual brilliance had a deleterious effect on the success of the team as a whole, a fact which teammates of his have privately confided in the past but never quite dared to say out loud.

As a matter of fact, the Cobb syndrome crops up throughout baseball history. Consider the modern case of Ted Williams. Williams is generally conceded to be the best hitter in baseball today. He has won four batting titles, four home run championships, has a lifetime average of .348. Yet, in 15 seasons with the Red Sox (two of them fractional, due to his Korean service as a Marine fighter pilot), his team has won exactly one pennant, no world championships.

It is interesting that in his only World Series—1946—Williams stubbornly played right into the hands of the opposition, the St. Louis Cardinals, who made a low bow to Ted's acknowledged prowess and fielded an overshifted defense which saw the left side of the infield practically undefended while the fielders were stacked like a picket fence on the right side. Williams insisted on trying to power the ball through this massed defense, even though he proved in the third game with a safe bunt down the third base line that he had a virtual sure base hit every time he pushed the ball toward the left side of the infield. He got exactly five hits, all singles, in the Series and was, as a result, about as much use to the Red Sox as a reserve outfielder named Tom McBride who was out of the league three years later.

It probably could be argued, on the basis of Williams' performance in the '46 series, that Ted was more interested in personal glory than in the Red Sox. It is noteworthy that many of Williams' other brilliant afternoons came in All-Star games, which are a kind of showcase for talent where the managers let the players swing from the heels and the hell with the game. The fans come to see stars, not victories, which makes this game more uniquely suited to Williams' frame of mind than is the pennant chase.

There have been other brilliant soloists. Paul Waner played in the big leagues 22 years and—save for 11 games with the 1951 Dodgers—played on precisely one pennant winner, the 1927 Pittsburgh Pirates, who lost the World Series in four fast games to the Yankees. Yet, Waner had a lifetime average of .333, batted .380 one year, .373 another, .370 in another. Those who watched him play had the distinct impression Waner got his three-and-a-fraction hits every 10 times at bat and was very little concerned over whether the team was winning or losing. He led the league in runs batted in only one year—the year the Pirates won the pennant. He led the league in batting three times—in two of which Pittsburgh did not even threaten.

It is possible there is something insidious about becoming a supreme virtuoso in baseball, that one's first individual championship chips away at the general team effort. It is extraordinary to note how many so-called superstars were able to lead their teams to pennants in the early days of their careers when they themselves were naive, earnest youngsters, and not public figures. ( Cobb's Tigers won the flag in his third year, 1907, when Ty was only 20 years old.) Once they get notorious, these celebrities seem to concentrate on their own careers, rather than the welfare of their team. It is possible, of course, that their success inspires jealousy and resentment on the part of their teammates and that this dissension rather than the player's disinterest untracks the team. It is also possible that the superstar anticipates this reaction and begins to think of himself as apart from his own common herd. The fact that he usually makes three or four times the salary of his nearest fellow player cannot be expected to smooth the situation.

How then do you explain the success of Babe Ruth who was all of these things—a superplayer, the most hysterically publicized man in the game and an employee whose salary occasionally topped that of the President of the U.S.? Well, as I see it, there were three factors: first was Ruth's personality itself—a lovable, clownish, uncomplicated juvenile who treated all the world, king or bootblack, with the same offhand heartiness—not, in short, a man to antagonize his fellow players or inspire jealousy or resentment in anyone. Can this be said of Cobb or Williams? Second, there was Manager Miller Huggins, a psychologist even if he didn't know it, and a mature, thoughtful individual who could channel Ruth's herculean talents to redound to the club's, as well as Ruth's, benefit. Third, there was Lou Gehrig.

It occurs to me that—just as there are ballplayers who succumb to the dread Cobb syndrome—there is the reverse side of the coin, ballplayers who never excited the wildest acclaim but who were congenital winners and whose talents were translated regularly and unobtrusively into pennants and championships. Lou Gehrig was unquestionably the key piston in the Yankee machinery. Ruth's eruptions of awful power would spurt the engine riotously along the track from time to time, but Gehrig's drive was relentless and unstoppable. He was always on hand to steady not only the great Ruth but the whole Yankee team. He was a perfect team man—a raucous, unafraid giant without guile, deceit or overleaping ambition. Gehrig was glad to be a Yankee, not glad to be just Gehrig. This is the man who batted .373, .374, .379, .363 and other prodigious percentages.

Gehrig was probably the greatest team player who ever lived. His mere presence was a comfort to the team, and it was undoubtedly Gehrig to whom Pitcher Red Ruffing referred when he said, "I feel like a guy with eight big brothers when I take the field with the Yankees." There is no evidence Cobb or Williams or Waner inspired the same unshakable confidence in their pitching staffs—or even their managers.

The Yankees, of course, have habitually been blessed with this kind of quietly capable team player, it may be the reason they insist on a certain code of behavior in their players. Certainly Joe DiMaggio was up to the Ruthian role he had to play, but he was primarily a team player, a superstar whose only enduring record book entry is for batting safely in 56 consecutive games. Not only that, but Team Players Gehrig and Bill Dickey were still on hand for the first part of his career. And the shortstop Phil Rizzuto was cast in the same mold for the last half.

The present-day Yankees have the brilliant Mickey Mantle. Personally, I would not put Mantle in the Gehrig or Dickey category. I doubt if he alone could lead the Yankees to a perennial world championship. The team player on New York today, it seems to me, is the catcher, Yogi Berra. Here is another athlete with no pretensions. His statistics will never skyrocket right off the pages of the baseball record book the way Cobb's, or Williams' will. But his World Series winners' shares may someday top everybody's.

And let us not forget the great George Sisler, who until his eyes began to go bad in 1923 was able to hoist the sickly St. Louis Browns into pennant contention in the American League. That alone should be example enough of the value of the team man.

The argument is raised that some players just find themselves on chronically inferior teams which keep on losing despite their best efforts. This has happened—but not as often as the fan thinks. As a matter of fact, if a superior player continues to play superior ball and does not let-discouragement or ennui set in, the chances are good that the franchise as a whole will begin to pick itself up and edge toward the pennant. Then, the addition of only one or two catalytic ballplayers, and suddenly there's a pennant.

This happened, I am positive, in the case of Detroit's Charley Gehringer. Gehringer's average (lifetime) is almost 50 points below Ty Cobb's. But Gehringer began to play second base for the Tigers toward the end of Cobb's career. He played steady, impeccable baseball—and the general level of excellence of baseball on the club started to rise as he reached full maturity. In 1933 the club bought a demonstrable winner—the Athletics' catcher, Mickey Cochrane—and made him player-manager. Immediately, everything fell into place, and Detroit went on to win two quick pennants and a world championship.

There have been other spectacular manifestations of the winning attitude. Frankie Frisch was second baseman on eight pennant winners. His teams won four of their World Series. Frisch was even manager of the 1934 Cardinals and, in the seventh game of their World Series with Detroit that year, it was Frisch who broke the back of his opponents. It was the third inning and the game was scoreless when the Cardinals loaded the bases, Manager Frisch at bat. He cleaned the bases with a double. The Cardinals swept on to a seven-run inning and the world championship.

The point is, an examination of Frisch's record might have told the baseball observer what to expect. Just as in the sixth game of last year's World Series when Jackie Robinson came to bat in the last of the 10th inning with the winning run on base, a study of the past should have tipped off the immediate future. Robinson brought it in with a screaming single to left. It is my belief that Robinson, next to Gehrig, was the greatest team player in baseball history. In his 10 years in the big leagues, his team won six pennants, finished second every other year but one. His team could not win its share of World Series; the Yankees, as it happened, had more team players than the Dodgers.

Cleveland, through the years, has had, it seems to me, more than its share of ballplayers of the Cobb persuasion. There were few stylists in baseball with the artistry of Earl Averill in the batter's box. In his prime he would seldom bat below .300 and his high mark was an eye-popping .378 on a team which had other sluggers like Joe Vosmik and Hal Trosky.

What it takes apparently is a special quality of caring which, it seemed to their fans, was the one quality the Cleveland Indians of the time lacked. The team on paper—which is to say on statistics—should have been winning its share of championships and giving the Yankees a mighty battle in other years.

It will be interesting to see what becomes not only of Mickey Mantle but of Willie Mays. What made Willie Mays a "live" candidate for the Hall of Fame before he had had much more than a turn or two around the circuit was the fact that he lifted the Giants—a mediocre team to say the most—right into two pennants. Mays can very easily start playing for Willie Mays Enterprises rather than for the New York Giants. It may become decidedly easier for Mays to lead the league in batting and base stealing and home runs than to lead New York to the pennant. It will be interesting to see.

In the case of Mantle, he may very well become a separate entity from the Yankees—say in the way Cobb became an entity almost away from team-play baseball altogether. But the pressure will not become telling until the demonstrated team player, Berra, has retired.

What it adds up to, it seems to me, is that there should be another dimension added to the measure of a baseball player. It is not enough to hail a man as a great athlete and in the next breath say "What a shame he couldn't play on a winner." A superplayer makes his team a winner—or should. Ted Williams had plenty of first-rate help on the Red Sox. He was a contemporary of Jimmy Foxx, Joe Cronin, Bobby Doerr and other outstanding hitters. But who can forget the spectacle of Ted Williams tossing his bat in the air in disgust last year because he was given a base on balls which merely won a game for the Red Sox but did nothing for Ted Williams?

The plain truth would seem to be that a prerequisite for admission into the Hall of Fame should be victory. After all, it's the object of the game of baseball. To make the Hall of Fame, a player should have demonstrated in himself the resources of victory at least once in a while and, if he has not, it should at least be admitted that he was in some ways not quite the extraordinary baseball player—whether for reasons of temperament, selfishness or indifference—that election to the Hall of Fame proclaims he is.

Alfred P. Pseudonym
May 29, 2006

And when you gaze long into an abyss, the abyss goes 8-8

Crazy Ted posted:

Want to see what passed for Sports-Illustrated-Level writing in 1957?

SURE YOU DO!

Sportswriting. Sportwriting never changes.

BackInTheUSSR
Jun 22, 2004

1.5 HR/9
ACE

quote:

This has happened—but not as often as the fan thinks. As a matter of fact, if a superior player continues to play superior ball and does not let-discouragement or ennui set in, the chances are good that the franchise as a whole will begin to pick itself up and edge toward the pennant. Then, the addition of only one or two catalytic ballplayers, and suddenly there's a pennant.

holy poo poo

Mornacale
Dec 19, 2007

n=y where
y=hope and n=folly,
prospects=lies, win=lose,

self=Pirates

Deathlove posted:

I haven't seen Gendo's avatar in a while, kinda want to switch it with a screengrab of Steigerwald spinning a basketball.

I volunteer.

Grittybeard
Mar 29, 2010

Bad, very bad!

Crazy Ted posted:

Want to see what passed for Sports-Illustrated-Level writing in 1957?

That might be this guy. If it is, the guy who wrote that won the pulitzer prize for commentary (much later).

I hope it's not the same guy. It probably is.

Grittybeard fucked around with this message at 03:39 on Apr 16, 2011

Crazy Ted
Jul 29, 2003

BackInTheUSSR posted:

holy poo poo
It's so beautiful, isn't it?

Dick Williams
Aug 25, 2005

Grittybeard posted:

That might be this guy. If it is, the guy who wrote that won the pulitzer prize for commentary (much later).

I hope it's not the same guy. It probably is.

He got what he deserved. He's dead now.

Bigass Moth
Mar 6, 2004

I joined the #RXT REVOLUTION.
:boom:
he knows...
It's almost as if he's saying that Babe Ruth won more titles because he played with better supporting talent than Ty Cobb. That would be a logical opinion though.

BackInTheUSSR
Jun 22, 2004

1.5 HR/9
ACE

Bigass Moth posted:

It's almost as if he's saying that Babe Ruth won more titles because he played with better supporting talent than Ty Cobb. That would be a logical opinion though.

ummmm hello if a superior player continues to play superior ball and does not let-discouragement or ennui set in, the chances are good that the franchise as a whole will begin to pick itself up and edge toward the pennant.

OrangeKing
Dec 5, 2002

They do play in October!

quote:

But who can forget the spectacle of Ted Williams tossing his bat in the air in disgust last year because he was given a base on balls which merely won a game for the Red Sox but did nothing for Ted Williams?

Did this actually happen, or is this one of those sportswriter things that is nothing at all like what actually happened?

Grittybeard
Mar 29, 2010

Bad, very bad!

OrangeKing posted:

Did this actually happen, or is this one of those sportswriter things that is nothing at all like what actually happened?

Sportswriters hated the man.

More in depth he never ever turned down a walk (.482 lifetime OBP which looks like a misprint every time I look it up). On the other hand he really really liked to hit baseballs, so I could theoretically see him being slightly pissed he didn't get to swing the bat. In either case the writer's a jackass.

Mornacale
Dec 19, 2007

n=y where
y=hope and n=folly,
prospects=lies, win=lose,

self=Pirates

quote:

That [Ty Cobb's stats] didn't [lead to championships] argues that Cobb's admitted individual brilliance had a deleterious effect on the success of the team as a whole...

I know that whole article could be bold, but this particularly struck me. The author is straight-up saying that Ty Cobb was TOO GOOD and thus actually made his team worse.

I love that even if someone argued "Babe Ruth was carrying the Yankees alone, the rest weren't that great," the article is still completely worthless. If both Cobb and Ruth were by far the best players on mediocre teams, then Cobb's skill of getting a fuckton of hits is still probably less likely to carry a team than someone whose ability is to hit dingers like crazy.

And then it also falls apart when we consider the fact that it's all a complete wild goose chase because we have these "stat" things and they seem pretty conclusive in saying that Babe Ruth was just straight up better than Ty Cobb, so obviously ceteris paribus his teams would win more.

e: ^^^ Don't forget the Babe's lifetime .474 OBP. Babe Ruth had a lifetime .510 wOBA, 197 wRC+

Babe Ruth's average season was twice as good as a league-average hitter. :psyduck:

Mornacale fucked around with this message at 07:57 on Apr 16, 2011

Bizob
Dec 18, 2004

Tiger out of nowhere!
Ty Cobb's grit factor was off the charts. He played baseball the right way, going hard into second spikes first at every opportunity, hustling into the stands to pound on a cripple, refusing the pretentious of success by abandoning his roots and/or hatred of blacks.

Seriously though, Cobb owned at baseball.

KYOON GRIFFEY JR
Apr 12, 2010



Runner-up, TRP Sack Race 2021/22
http://www.hockeyinsideout.com/boone/about-last-night-13

I'm not even going to post quotes from it because you really need to experience it for yourself.

Feels Villeneuve
Oct 7, 2007

Setter is Better.

KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:

http://www.hockeyinsideout.com/boone/about-last-night-13

I'm not even going to post quotes from it because you really need to experience it for yourself.

god, I love this, my favorite Bad Sports Article Type is when someone starts with a shaky metaphor and keeps going and going and going with it

Badfinger
Dec 16, 2004

Timeouts?!

We'll take care of that.
I read the entire thing, but I won't pretend I understood a single word of it.

Someone seriously got paid for that?

Badfinger fucked around with this message at 15:00 on Apr 17, 2011

Medical Sword
May 23, 2005

Goghing, Goghing, gone
I skimmed it and was like "yeah, that's real bad" but when I actually went back and read every single line I just started laughing uncontrollably.

quote:

And your Montreal Canadiens certainly weren’t the Bruins’ enslaved, pyramid-building bitches.

quote:

Tell me that wasn’t a just-but-vengeful G-d pounding some serious karma up Boston’s butt.

KYOON GRIFFEY JR
Apr 12, 2010



Runner-up, TRP Sack Race 2021/22

A drat FOG posted:

I skimmed it and was like "yeah, that's real bad" but when I actually went back and read every single line I just started laughing uncontrollably.

That was basically what happened with me. Glanced at it, thought "oh boone you loving moron" and moved on, but on the revisit it's hilarious.

KYOON GRIFFEY JR
Apr 12, 2010



Runner-up, TRP Sack Race 2021/22

Badfinger posted:

I read the entire thing, but I won't pretend I understood a single word of it.

Someone seriously got paid for that?

Yes, Hockey Inside/Out is the Canadiens-focused website for the largest English language newspaper in Montreal.

Background: Chara tried to murder a guy on the Canadiens or something and then didn't even get a suspension!!! and the guy he tried to murder is still injured, and then the Bruins played like rear end in the playoffs and Chara got the pooping flu or something like that and now lots of dumb poo poo Montreal fans are talking about KARMA and Divine Retribution.

Badfinger
Dec 16, 2004

Timeouts?!

We'll take care of that.

KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:

Yes, Hockey Inside/Out is the Canadiens-focused website for the largest English language newspaper in Montreal.

Background: Chara tried to murder a guy on the Canadiens or something and then didn't even get a suspension!!! and the guy he tried to murder is still injured, and then the Bruins played like rear end in the playoffs and Chara got the pooping flu or something like that and now lots of dumb poo poo Montreal fans are talking about KARMA and Divine Retribution.

That's the damning thing, I do actually know what the article is about. It's just completely unintelligible.

IS IT THE SHOES
Feb 12, 2007
it probably is
http://www.npr.org/2011/04/17/135471975/robot-journalist-out-writes-human-sports-reporter?sc=fb&cc=fp

A robot wrote a better story about a perfect game than a live person.

sports journalism

LARGE THE HEAD
Sep 1, 2009

"Competitive greatness is when you play your best against the best."

"Learn as if you were to live forever; live as if you were to die tomorrow."

--John Wooden

IS IT THE SHOES posted:

http://www.npr.org/2011/04/17/135471975/robot-journalist-out-writes-human-sports-reporter?sc=fb&cc=fp

A robot wrote a better story about a perfect game than a live person.

sports journalism

That's not sports journalism at all. The GW piece was written by a sports information director who wanted to cover up what happened.

He should also be out of a job by now.

IS IT THE SHOES
Feb 12, 2007
it probably is

LARGE THE HEAD posted:

That's not sports journalism at all. The GW piece was written by a sports information director who wanted to cover up what happened.

He should also be out of a job by now.

Can you elaborate on why he wanted to cover it up? I'm not familiar with the situation.

barkingclam
Jun 20, 2007

KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:

http://www.hockeyinsideout.com/boone/about-last-night-13

I'm not even going to post quotes from it because you really need to experience it for yourself.

I thought this was some dumb blog thing before realizing that it was written for the Gazette by a guy who's been there for 30 years. I dunno how awful it really is - it's banal, but it's far from the worst thing I've seen in this thread.

LARGE THE HEAD
Sep 1, 2009

"Competitive greatness is when you play your best against the best."

"Learn as if you were to live forever; live as if you were to die tomorrow."

--John Wooden

IS IT THE SHOES posted:

Can you elaborate on why he wanted to cover it up? I'm not familiar with the situation.

The team he follows had a perfect game thrown on them. It's natural to polish a turd, but this is the extreme extent of that.

KYOON GRIFFEY JR
Apr 12, 2010



Runner-up, TRP Sack Race 2021/22

barkingclam posted:

I thought this was some dumb blog thing before realizing that it was written for the Gazette by a guy who's been there for 30 years. I dunno how awful it really is - it's banal, but it's far from the worst thing I've seen in this thread.

did you read the same article as me or do you just not know what banal means

barkingclam
Jun 20, 2007
Biblical angle aside, I thought it was just another a boring, unoriginal sports column. As a whole, it wasn't so blatantly awful I burst out laughing or anything.

But yeah, I reread it and the bibical stuff really is too much.

KYOON GRIFFEY JR
Apr 12, 2010



Runner-up, TRP Sack Race 2021/22
it's almost like i posted it in here because of the biblical stuff

almost

toadee
Aug 16, 2003

North American Turtle Boy Love Association

barkingclam posted:

I thought this was some dumb blog thing before realizing that it was written for the Gazette by a guy who's been there for 30 years. I dunno how awful it really is - it's banal, but it's far from the worst thing I've seen in this thread.

Dude

quote:

Tell me that wasn’t a just-but-vengeful G-d pounding some serious karma up Boston’s butt.

Biblical and anal rape reference in the same sentance. About a hockey game.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Mornacale
Dec 19, 2007

n=y where
y=hope and n=folly,
prospects=lies, win=lose,

self=Pirates

toadee posted:

Dude


Biblical and anal rape reference in the same sentance. About a hockey game.

And blasphemy! Karma and G-d are different religions!

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