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TNA, for all its flaws, has also managed to get bigger than any other company out there not named WWE so that should say something for the business acumen for everyone else. And ROH for all its fair limitations as a small company also manages to have worse production than a smaller promotion like Chikara. So really, if anything what we see is that wrestling promoters kind of have no idea how to build a business and businessmen who get into wrestling have no idea how to promote it.
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Apr 25, 2011 19:47
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STAC Goat posted:TNA, for all its flaws, has also managed to get bigger than any other company out there not named WWE so that should say something for the business acumen for everyone else. And ROH for all its fair limitations as a small company also manages to have worse production than a smaller promotion like Chikara. So really, if anything what we see is that wrestling promoters kind of have no idea how to build a business and businessmen who get into wrestling have no idea how to promote it. I find this assertion completely laughable. CHIKARA has nice graphics but everything else about their production is worse than ROH.
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Apr 25, 2011 19:51
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STAC Goat posted:TNA, for all its flaws, has also managed to get bigger than any other company out there not named WWE so that should say something for the business acumen for everyone else. And ROH for all its fair limitations as a small company also manages to have worse production than a smaller promotion like Chikara. So really, if anything what we see is that wrestling promoters kind of have no idea how to build a business and businessmen who get into wrestling have no idea how to promote it. I assume you're getting the 'low production values' stuff from their iPPV stuff. That's apples and oranges. Chikara's stuff has post-production stuff done to it. A more fair example would be to compare ROH's non-iPPV (will always be lower quality because they aren't very good with live stuff) non-HDNET (will always be better quality due to having a professional production crew) to Chikara's stuff. ROH's stuff is always going to end up better.
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Apr 25, 2011 19:54
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STAC Goat posted:TNA, for all its flaws, has also managed to get bigger than any other company out there not named WWE so that should say something for the business acumen for everyone else. And ROH for all its fair limitations as a small company also manages to have worse production than a smaller promotion like Chikara. So really, if anything what we see is that wrestling promoters kind of have no idea how to build a business and businessmen who get into wrestling have no idea how to promote it. TNA also has had a lot more money behind it than ROH or Chikara. If either of those lost the kind of money TNA has lost over the last couple years, I'm fairly certain they wouldn't survive.
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Apr 25, 2011 20:02
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I love ROH for its wrestling but I always hated its production before HDNet. Shows were filmed ugly, promos were often inaudible, there was so little pre or post production additions, and even the graphics just seemed amateurish. HDNet obviously upgraded them but that's not a HD nerd talking, they just did some simple things like change up camera angles and produce shows with Mind you, I haven't see the ROH iPPVs or non-HDnet stuff of the last year or so, so if they've upgraded their product separate from HDNet then I humbly withdraw my complaint but note that it took them way longer to get there then it should have. We're mostly talking about buying a few cameras and computers and finding a few nerds with video editing, camera, and graphic design skills which are a dime a dozen. But there's still some conversation we're not having when people say TNA sucks rear end but manages to have TV but ROH is awesome and can only get a show on a network so few people can get. I'm not saying ROH isn't dealing with plenty of real world hurdles and TNA hasn't had more than its share of luck but people who think the only thing holding ROH back from being a major hit on Spike is TNA's insistence not to die seem like they're just ignoring a hell of a lot. And none of this is supposed to be pro or con for TNA or ROH, just that wrestling as a whole kind of never figured out how to do TV. Except for Vince McMahon, and that's how he got to be king. Hirams Bitch posted:TNA also has had a lot more money behind it than ROH or Chikara. If either of those lost the kind of money TNA has lost over the last couple years, I'm fairly certain they wouldn't survive. I don't know much about Chikara business wise but the stuff I'm talking about for them really isn't much about money. Invest a few thousand on computers and software and play with video editing and graphic design, then take advantage of the internet age with podcasts and the like. Chikara just seems incredibly savvy about using the easy and cheap technology that's out there and helping it enhance their small league product in a way that I've seen few other wrestling companies even come close to, even WWE and TNA. STAC Goat fucked around with this message at 20:07 on Apr 25, 2011 |
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Apr 25, 2011 20:02
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STAC Goat posted:I love ROH for its wrestling but I always hated its production before HDNet. Shows were filmed ugly, promos were often inaudible, there was so little pre or post production additions, and even the graphics just seemed amateurish. HDNet obviously upgraded them but that's not a HD nerd talking, they just did some simple things like change up camera angles and produce shows with Mind you, I haven't see the ROH iPPVs so if they've upgraded their product separate from HDNet then I humbly withdraw my complaint but note that it took them way longer to get there then it should have. We're mostly talking about buying a few cameras and computers and finding a few nerds with video editing, camera, and graphic design skills which are a dime a dozen. For all the poo poo we (rightfully) give Kevin Dunn, he's one of the big reasons WWE made it so big. The man is a top-notch producer. As for ROH, their kit for the iPPVs is provided by GoFightLive. The quality of the kit is good but the production of the suff itself leaves a lot of room for improvement. As for their non-iPPV shows, the production has improved leaps and bounds from where it was a year or so ago. It appears as though they have new kit and Lagana as producer seems to have upped ROH's game (if only he could learn how to do live-stuff)
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Apr 25, 2011 20:10
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Ziggy Tsardust posted:For all the poo poo we (rightfully) give Kevin Dunn, he's one of the big reasons WWE made it so big. The man is a top-notch producer. As for ROH, their kit for the iPPVs is provided by GoFightLive. The quality of the kit is good but the production of the suff itself leaves a lot of room for improvement. As for their non-iPPV shows, the production has improved leaps and bounds from where it was a year or so ago. It appears as though they have new kit and Lagana as producer seems to have upped ROH's game (if only he could learn how to do live-stuff) I used to never be able to understand why ROH would have such a strong internet following but it seemed like nobody could build them a decent website. I've run internet wrestling e-feds with better designed websites than ROH. Even today. And I got out of e-fedding like seven years ago.
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Apr 25, 2011 20:15
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STAC Goat posted:And none of this is supposed to be pro or con for TNA or ROH, just that wrestling as a whole kind of never figured out how to do TV. Except for Vince McMahon, and that's how he got to be king. Well, I'd say Bischoff too, since Nitro used to be slicker and have better production values than what the WWF was running at the time. Of course, he had Ted Turner in his corner then. Arguably both shows ended up raising the bar to a point where it's really hard for the indies to put up a comparable product- that kind of polish just costs a lot.
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Apr 25, 2011 20:23
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Lone Rogue posted:I used to never be able to understand why ROH would have such a strong internet following but it seemed like nobody could build them a decent website. I've run internet wrestling e-feds with better designed websites than ROH. Even today. And I got out of e-fedding like seven years ago. Exactly. Wrestling as a whole just seems to be really behind the curve when it comes to this stuff. Even WWE took forever before they embraced Hulu, Youtube, or other internet stuff. There's always going to be limitations on smaller businesses without a lot of money but there's also plenty of cheap avenues and alternatives that these companies don't seem to take advantage of.
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Apr 25, 2011 20:30
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STAC Goat posted:Exactly. Wrestling as a whole just seems to be really behind the curve when it comes to this stuff. Even WWE took forever before they embraced Hulu, Youtube, or other internet stuff. There's always going to be limitations on smaller businesses without a lot of money but there's also plenty of cheap avenues and alternatives that these companies don't seem to take advantage of. That's where TNA have really excelled. For all his faults as an announcer, Jeremy Borash is REALLY on the ball when it comes to these things, dating back to WCW where he suggested live webcasts. I believe it was him that suggested torrent distribution when TNA were in-between TV deals in 2005. TNA always have a really up-to-date youtube channel.
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Apr 25, 2011 20:39
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For whatever reason Borash has recently had less input upon the TNA webcontent and the production has moved over to the main team. It's quite apparent when you look at the quality of the TNA youtube channel even compared to a year ago. I still think they produce the best youtube content, but they used to be so much better at it.
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Apr 25, 2011 21:03
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Which is a shame since twitter has worked out so well for TNA.
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Apr 25, 2011 21:30
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I was about to post in here and lay in to all of you for not knowing who The Sheik was, then I found out the guy I was thinking of (massive massive draw in Detroit during the territory days, Sabu's uncle) died in 2003 so joke's on me I guess
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Apr 25, 2011 21:34
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TomWaitsForNoMan posted:I was about to post in here and lay in to all of you for not knowing who The Sheik was, then I found out the guy I was thinking of (massive massive draw in Detroit during the territory days, Sabu's uncle) died in 2003 so joke's on me I guess While the Sheik loved having belts and staying on top long past relevancy, he wasn't this bad about it!
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Apr 25, 2011 21:39
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TomWaitsForNoMan posted:I was about to post in here and lay in to all of you for not knowing who The Sheik was, then I found out the guy I was thinking of (massive massive draw in Detroit during the territory days, Sabu's uncle) died in 2003 so joke's on me I guess that's the sad thing. The NWA title is currently held by the third most famous wrestler to have had that name. This is a bit like the title being won by "nature boy" Scoot Andrews.
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Apr 25, 2011 22:10
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Lamuella posted:that's the sad thing. The NWA title is currently held by the third most famous wrestler to have had that name. This is a bit like the title being won by "nature boy" Scoot Andrews.
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Apr 25, 2011 22:32
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Tarasenko Tank posted:Was Shane-O-Mac a good wrestler back in the day when he was taking crazy-rear end bumps? He wasn't really a wrestler, he was just a guy that got his rear end kicked, and got in a few crazy dives and bumps to keep up. That said, his match with Kurt Angle at King of the Ring 2001 is fantastic. The story was that Kurt was trying to win the tournament, and Shane kept interfering in his matches, trying to keep his matches going, so as to tire Kurt out for their match later in the night. By the time they met, Kurt had had to face Christian (he beat him) and Edge (he lost, making Edge king), and he was pissed by the time he got in the ring with Shane. It's a garbage match, but it's a great one. The only downsides were that their match made the KotR tournament look minor by comparison, and Kurt hosed up his back and face in the match.
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Apr 25, 2011 22:55
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Red posted:He wasn't really a wrestler, he was just a guy that got his rear end kicked, and got in a few crazy dives and bumps to keep up. Is that where he put Shane through the screen a the top of the ramp?
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Apr 25, 2011 23:02
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ncumbered_by_idgits posted:Is that where he put Shane through the screen a the top of the ramp? It was a glass panel with the King of the ring logo on it. Kurt catapulted him into them three times. The first time he attempted it the glass didn't break. 
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Apr 25, 2011 23:04
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Endorph posted:And with the novel/film, and the character in Zelda, he's only the fifth most famous thing with that name, bro. I think he may rank behind "generic concept of a sheik."
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Apr 25, 2011 23:05
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BigRed0427 posted:It was a glass panel with the King of the ring logo on it. Kurt catapulted him into them three times. The first time he attempted it the glass didn't break. I couldn't remember exactly what it was other than being just brutal as gently caress.
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Apr 26, 2011 02:06
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BigRed0427 posted:The first time he attempted it the glass didn't break. Wasn't it something like the first 6 attempts? They were belly to belly too, it was crazy watching it live. I thought Shane had broken his neck for sure. /edit http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x81zig_kurt-angle-suplexes-shane-mcmahon-i_sport I guess the first pane of glass he only failed the one time, then twice more going back through the other way until he finally just heaved him through head first. I remember being so relieved when they just decided to run through it. God the sound of shane's head dropping on the concrete on the first attempt is sickening. 
maniacripper fucked around with this message at 05:51 on Apr 26, 2011 |
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Apr 26, 2011 05:45
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How much does it cost to have a song featured as the official theme song of a PPV?
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Apr 26, 2011 06:42
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Blinkman987 posted:How much does it cost to have a song featured as the official theme song of a PPV? it isn't a set amount. it depends on a variety of things, royalty fees for dvd sales and future airings of the PPV, whether the song is a new hit being promoted by the band/record label, the popularity of the band/song, the ppv itself, etc.
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Apr 26, 2011 06:55
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ADRIEN GRODYS FIFE posted:it isn't a set amount. it depends on a variety of things, royalty fees for dvd sales and future airings of the PPV, whether the song is a new hit being promoted by the band/record label, the popularity of the band/song, the ppv itself, etc. So, WWE pays for some songs and is paid for others? Are there any examples or figures?
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Apr 26, 2011 06:58
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Here's a question, as I watch utter fucktonnes of old RAW: Why do they always describe a hit as being to the *body part* of *name* instead of to *name's* *body part*?
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Apr 26, 2011 15:16
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Dickeye posted:Here's a question, as I watch utter fucktonnes of old RAW: Why do they always describe a hit as being to the *body part* of *name* instead of to *name's* *body part*? Mixing things like that up is really just standard announcer fare. One of the worst sentence mashers in action today is UFC's Mike Goldberg. Or, should I say: A terrible sentence masher in action today... is Mike Goldberg.
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Apr 26, 2011 15:22
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Backwards run sentences until reels the mind?
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Apr 26, 2011 15:24
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why was it that in the early days of Raw the first hour was billed as Rawis War and the second hour as just the Warzone?
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Apr 26, 2011 21:56
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Nystral posted:why was it that in the early days of Raw the first hour was billed as Rawis War and the second hour as just the Warzone? They were two completely separate shows. That was before the WWF/WWE merger.
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Apr 26, 2011 22:01
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Nystral posted:why was it that in the early days of Raw the first hour was billed as Rawis War and the second hour as just the Warzone? Different ratings in terms of Nielsen ratings and different ratings in terms of TV PG or TV 14 or whatever.
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Apr 26, 2011 23:07
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Nystral posted:why was it that in the early days of Raw the first hour was billed as Rawis War and the second hour as just the Warzone? Not the early days, it lasted until the mid-2000s. It was a bullshit ratings ploy where they (and the network) claimed they were two different shows. This let them claim to have the two top shows on Monday night.
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Apr 26, 2011 23:08
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WeaselWeaz posted:Not the early days, it lasted until the mid-2000s. It was a bullshit ratings ploy where they (and the network) claimed they were two different shows. This let them claim to have the two top shows on Monday night. It lasted until today. First hour is WWE RAW second hour is WWE RAWZONE. And it's mainly just Nielsen purposes.
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Apr 26, 2011 23:42
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I've read a lot of complaints in the Pagoda regarding how much the WWE neglects the Tag Team division, or that teams tend to be broken up just as they might look the slightest bit interesting. What baffles me (and maybe someone can explain it here) is that, with all of the "special event" tag team matches that happen, why anyone would want a division whose matches have been paint-by-numbers for at least two years now? A more specific question: When people complain about the tag division, are they only complaining about the lack of teams? Or are they complaining about the fact that tag teams in the WWE have been running [hyperbolically] the exact same tag match for two years, just with different players? Examples of sameness include: heels bury rival in corner, double knockout-to-hot tag, face no-sell to pile-of-bodies finish (or, the alternative gently caress finish via interference).
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Apr 27, 2011 08:39
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Wise Fwom Yo Gwave posted:
Lack of teams. There are literally 3 teams that have been anywhere near the tag title scene this year.
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Apr 27, 2011 08:44
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Wise Fwom Yo Gwave posted:Examples of sameness include: heels bury rival in corner, double knockout-to-hot tag, face no-sell to pile-of-bodies finish (or, the alternative gently caress finish via interference). The Rock and Roll Express had the same match for ten years and were one of the hottest things in the country.
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Apr 27, 2011 08:45
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jeffersonlives posted:The Rock and Roll Express had the same match for ten years and were one of the hottest things in the country. That's because they were usually fresh wherever they went and wrestled a style others in those areas didn't. Though I'll admit to having never liked them. Just never clicked with me.
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Apr 27, 2011 08:47
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Deadpool posted:That's because they were usually fresh wherever they went and wrestled a style others in those areas didn't. That's been the tag team formula match for basically as long as there's been tag team wrestling, though. And a lot of tag team wrestling has been very good or very over, so I don't think the formula is the problem so much as WWE taking a poo poo on the entire idea of tag teams.
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Apr 27, 2011 08:49
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You can do a lot with the standard tag formula. ROH tag team matches usually don't stray too far and you'll see a ton of them on MOTYC lists.
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Apr 27, 2011 08:49
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WWE tag matches are always the same matches anyway though. Even if they managed to scrape together an exciting tag team division (they won't) it'd still be the same "Heels dominate until the hot tag" match. It is every single time.
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Apr 27, 2011 08:52
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