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Yeah, I thought of Parkinson's for a while, but my Movement Disorders guy is also one of the top Parkinson's docs out there, and he would have picked up on it right away if it was the case. I did, however, notice a dopamine link with all of this, and I did tell him that. He's still positive that I have Hereditary Spastic Paraparesis instead, which out of the two disorders I would prefer in a heartbeat. And by 'not moving' I mean that I can move it, but it has to be an intentional movement. E.g. I have to think a little bit and willingly move the arm, as the unintentional movement goes away. Instead, it either lays limp or seizes up and becomes spastic, which is always a world of fun. (This also goes away once the dopamine regulates itself). Also, as this has been happening for so long, I consider this an 'annoyance' rather than an 'emergency'. I saw the Movement Disorders doc last week, and the only thing he can suggest is to up my Baclofen. And I see the Psychiatrist next week. I'm seriously thinking of having the two talk to each other to see what sort of  I can actually tolerate. In the meantime, I'm plugging in my sunlamp now, wearing my Magic Uruguay Smiling Sun T-shirt, and am thankful that I'm half a block away from a Starbucks.
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May 10, 2011 17:58
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Sorry to hear this bullshit's hitting you again Qu Apelle. Sounded like you finally got something working only for it to crap out again. Is drug holidays an option that would sort of "reset" it? Or would taking rotating types of meds work? I'm seconding what was said on the last page about taking your drat meds. I'm 3 weeks overdue for refilling/taking mine, and it's pretty hell. It just starts as one or two days where you think you can go off it, and then it turns into 2 weeks of lying in bed sleeping or staring at the ceiling. I took my adderall xr today at 12:30pm despite knowing I won't get to sleep because I just need to get up and out. Good news is if I get legally married my husband might get enough gov assistance for school that it'd cover me for a bit too. At least med costs 
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May 10, 2011 19:42
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Aculard posted:Sorry to hear this bullshit's hitting you again Qu Apelle. Sounded like you finally got something working only for it to crap out again. Is drug holidays an option that would sort of "reset" it? Or would taking rotating types of meds work? Thanks. The drug holidays of weekends work well. I specifically structure my life so that I don't have to do important stuff then, such as my wonderful, beautiful Algebra. (Math, let's never fight again, K? I'm sorry for all the bad things I have ever said about you.) But the pattern I'm seeing is that the night off the drug doesn't let my body recover from a day on the drug, so by Friday night? I'm literally dragging myself around. I just found out that Vyvanse is covered on my current insurance, so that will be the next option. And Adderall XR just made me moody - which is uncomfortable, but the physical wear and tear was much less. I could go back to that, as long as I stay on a very low dose.
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May 10, 2011 20:47
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Qu Appelle posted:such as my wonderful, beautiful Algebra. (Math, let's never fight again, K? I'm sorry for all the bad things I have ever said about you.) Math owns. Just learn to do it really really fast and it's not too big a deal...until you have to do repetitions of pretty much the same problem several dozen times... 
Kylra fucked around with this message at 00:44 on May 11, 2011 |
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May 10, 2011 20:51
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Alright this looks like a good place to post this. I have a 4 year old. He generally very good at home, follows directions, does his "chores" (cleaning the play room, helping put dishes away, taking out small bags of garbage), is pretty nice to his 2 little brothers (even though he does have his moments). At preschool, he's another kid. Almost every day he's getting into trouble and getting notes sent home. Talking back. Putting dirt in friends hair. Hiding under his desk during circle time. Spitting (raspberries) at people. Yelling. His teachers have told me that he performs academically beyond a first grade level. They say he's always done with his work before the other kids. He follows directions for craft time clearly, but only when it's something he's interested in. Examples: (I am not bragging about my kid. These are examples that the teachers have specifically told me, and I feel like it could help explain his behavior.) IE: The teachers had a craft where they sat 5 kids at each table and had a bucket of legos in the center. The kids were told to spell their name using the legos. They told me that not only was my son the only one who was able to complete it, but he did his first name, middle initial, and last name. IE 2: The kids were given a 2 day project. Day 1: draw a "blue print" of something they wanted to make the next day. It could be anything. My kid drew an exploded view of a robot, complete with ball bearings in the neck and joints for elbows and knees. Day 2: the teachers told me that his was the only one that looked like what he planned the day before, and it was to scale of the drawing. When he couldn't find anything metal to use for his robot, he painted a soap box with a silver paint marker and glitter. He used the biggest variety of items to build his robot compared to the other kids. He asked the teacher for a paper clip for the antenna when he couldn't find the right material. Again, I'm not bragging. I'm really not trying to impress anybody, I'm here looking for answers. Moving right along... He began showing his own interest in ninja's (power rangers, 3 ninjas, etc) and asked if he could go to "ninja school", so I signed him up for taekwondo class. He has fun, but is the most disruptive in class. Since I'm not at school to watch him, here is where I see how he acts in a class / group environment. He barely listens. He goofs off non stop. He laughs at very inappropriate times. He dances randomly. He stops to look at himself in the mirror all the time. I know he's a 4 year old and I expect most of this and just figured it was pretty normal, but he does it way more than almost all the other kids. Recently, I've had a few parents tell me he should be checked for ADHD. I just wanted to put this out there and see what you guys / girls thought about this since this seems like the appropriate thread. I also want to know, if ADHD is the diagnoses, about your opinions of alternative "therapies" instead of drugging my kid. My honest opinion (not trolling, hoping not to get flamed) is that too many people are too quick to say it's ADHD and way too ready to pump their kids full of drugs that could lead to a lifelong addiction and a constant feeling that something's "wrong" with them. I say this from knowing several people while growing up who were diagnosed with ADHD and been prescribed meds for it. I've seen some kids change personalities completely and go from being a ball of happiness to a void of personality and that scares me. I've seen friends become depressed and suicidal, friends who have told me specifically they feel that way because of the meds.
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May 11, 2011 04:28
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Fiendish Dr. Wu posted:My honest opinion (not trolling, hoping not to get flamed) is that too many people are too quick to say it's ADHD and way too ready to pump their kids full of drugs that could lead to a lifelong addiction and a constant feeling that something's "wrong" with them. I say this from knowing several people while growing up who were diagnosed with ADHD and been prescribed meds for it. I've seen some kids change personalities completely and go from being a ball of happiness to a void of personality and that scares me. I've seen friends become depressed and suicidal, friends who have told me specifically they feel that way because of the meds. I'll leave the rest of your post to other posters, but I just want to say that research actually shows that kids with ADHD who are treated with stimulants like Ritalin are less (rather than more) likely to later develop an addiction than those who are not treated with medications.
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May 11, 2011 04:41
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The only negative long term consequences of stimulant medication is the potential of stunted growth. (And we're talking like an average of 6 pounds and 3/4", not really something to worry about) That being said, therapy, medication, and personal coping skills are the only ways to deal with ADHD. There is research that shows kids who use medication are less likely to develop anxiety and depression disorders later in life. It sounds like you've already made up your mind that he has ADHD, so why not just take him to the doctor? I wouldn't even worry about the medication issue for now because 4 is way too young to really consider stimulant medication. At the very least the doctor might be able to refer you to a therapist that can work on your kid's impulsiveness, but even with medication there's no magic fix that will make your kid sit still and be like all the other kids. It's going to be tough as a parent to deal with a kid that has ADHD (if the doctor agrees), so be prepared for a lot of hard work. There is no reason you shouldn't consider medicating him if the doctor(s) agree he should be medicated. I have no idea what you mean by personalities changing, because I have literally never met another person taking medication for ADHD that feels their personality has changed. I'm way more low-key now than I was when I was younger and unmedicated, and part of it is being older, but part of it is the medication. Even though I may have seemed happier, I definitely wasn't. As for people feeling suicidal, I can't speak to that, but I will say that all medication options are supervised by a medical professional, and your kid should be taught to tell somebody if he ever feels like he's suicidal. Again, your kid is really young. Go see a doc and don't worry too much about the medication right now. At the very least, don't make up your mind before you have a chance to talk to somebody who can answer all your questions that we can't. Nobody will fault you if you decide not to medicate your kid, but making up your mind before then isn't fair to your kid.
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May 11, 2011 05:02
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Honestly I think its too early to tell. If you suspect it, then take him for appropriate testing. He could simply be smart and unchallenged. I wasn't diagnosed until my 30s and I wish I would have been diagnosed and treated as a teenager or twenty something, but I don't think I personally would want to be treated with medication until after 6th grade and only if it caused issues with socialization and my grades/study habits as it did.
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May 11, 2011 07:31
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Fiendish Dr. Wu posted:I also want to know, if ADHD is the diagnoses, about your opinions of alternative "therapies" instead of drugging my kid. My honest opinion (not trolling, hoping not to get flamed) is that too many people are too quick to say it's ADHD and way too ready to pump their kids full of drugs that could lead to a lifelong addiction and a constant feeling that something's "wrong" with them. I say this from knowing several people while growing up who were diagnosed with ADHD and been prescribed meds for it. I've seen some kids change personalities completely and go from being a ball of happiness to a void of personality and that scares me. I've seen friends become depressed and suicidal, friends who have told me specifically they feel that way because of the meds. I'll give you the otherside of the coin here. I was diagnosed just this year (I am 27) after seeking help for depression and anxiety. My parents were told that I likely had it many times when I was younger, however, they never wanted me treated. They didn't want me slapped with a label or "put into a box" (I didn't know this until this year). So I spent my formative years feeling as though something was wrong with me anyway. I constantly struggled in school and was labelled as lazy and impulsive. Teachers outright declared me a "waste of talent" to my face, others told me I would never survive college. I was often told how smart I was while at the same time failing miserably. I remember being frustrated many many times in high-school, I just did not understand how my peers ground out the work, it was so trivial and boring. As you might have guessed this led me to develop massive self-confidence problems, depression, and anxiety. I never would volunteer to do trivial and easy work out of fear. In college I settled for a degree I didn't want after convincing myself I didn't have the work ethic for anything else. Now I'm in grad school and realized something had to change, which eventually led me here. Now this isn't to say medicate your son immediately, or that he will have lovely teachers like me. I personally, in retrospect, would have wanted treatment earlier. how early is hard to say, and is something you should probably consider. It's not terribly easy on the otherside either
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May 11, 2011 10:14
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Goodpancakes posted:I'll give you the otherside of the coin here. I was diagnosed just this year (I am 27) after seeking help for depression and anxiety. My parents were told that I likely had it many times when I was younger, however, they never wanted me treated. They didn't want me slapped with a label or "put into a box" (I didn't know this until this year). So I spent my formative years feeling as though something was wrong with me anyway. I constantly struggled in school and was labelled as lazy and impulsive. Teachers outright declared me a "waste of talent" to my face, others told me I would never survive college. I was often told how smart I was while at the same time failing miserably. I remember being frustrated many many times in high-school, I just did not understand how my peers ground out the work, it was so trivial and boring. This, oh jesus christ this. The thing you need to realize Fiendish Dr. Wu is that he will not be that "smart" forever. He's going to look really intelligent for the first few years of school, but once he settles into grade 6 and onwards you are probably going to start seeing his grades drop, if not completely off the map during high school. I was that smart way back when too; That's exactly why my mother kept refusing to believe I had anything wrong despite the teachers strong arming her into taking me to developmental psychologists for testing. Even when they finally did, she would go on that "you're just so special and unique they don't understand you!" I don't know your circumstances, but this is one major thing I will never, ever loving forgive my mother for. She had the same reasoning that she didn't want to "drug her child" or "take that special thing that made me unique!" away. What she succeeded in was setting me up to fail. I was supposed to be the "smart" kid, not the "stupid loving lazy bitch." I was supposed to go to med school, not flounder around trades and art schools. Every single expectation she had of me because I was the smartest kid in every class up until 6 grade persisted afterwards. I was trying to kill myself in highschool, at like, 16 years old because I would go home and she would say things like "What happened to my smart little snowflake?!?!" and "Just because I love you doesn't mean I can't be disappointed in you." And this isn't something you start doing on purpose. That's the worst part of it. If your kid has ADHD and does well then you think "Oh, he's a-okay!" The second he starts having difficulty, are you just going to blame him, thinking he's doing it to himself deliberately? What you should be doing is sitting down and thinking about what's best for your child, not what opinions you have of the medications are. There are non-stimulant varieties you can try when he's old enough, or small doses of the stimulants. If you've ever looked in the drugs forum, you'll see that people getting high off these medications are looking at using over 200mg per trip, while most ADHD people are medicated at 5-20mg. Please, please PLEASE take your child in for testing as soon as you can, because you are going to do so much harm if you restrict his access to mental healthcare.
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May 11, 2011 12:44
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Fiendish Dr. Wu posted:
Studies actually show the opposite. Untreated ADHD into adulthood is much more likely to cause addiction and thrill seeking tendencies. Also lots of studies show that there are far fewer medicated ADHD kids than there are unmedicated. Stimulants aren't being overprescribed, but underprescribed overall. As for worries about becoming a zombie or whatever, that is what you discuss with your doctor. The road to finding a proper dosage is a long one with many adjustments necessary. It requires patience and experimenting to find a dosage that is both safe, effective, and with minimal to no side effects.
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May 11, 2011 12:58
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Chin Strap posted:Studies actually show the opposite. Untreated ADHD into adulthood is much more likely to cause addiction and thrill seeking tendencies. haha noooo shitttttt. I would have cut off my right arm if it sounded like a good time. Now, occasionally, I smoke some weed. Thats mostly because I'm Type A as hell and need to chill. Even then, its like 4-5 tokes over 3-4 hours long after my meds have worn off.
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May 11, 2011 13:45
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On a slightly related note I've been diagnosed for a long time but I've never really been on ADHD medication, I've coped through school (failing all but two classes), dropped out of my first college course, managed to make my way through a course with low work load. Now I'm on a level 3 course (Worth 3 A levels),I couldn't keep up with the work load and ended up being clinically depressed. Asides from treating that (Citalopram, 10mg a day) I've just gotten put on to Concerta XL 18mg a day, I took my first tablet this morning. I can't really comment on how I was at primary school but it'll have certainly been a bit different since I'm also  autistic, but I do know in secondary school I had a lot of trouble with my work and also constantly being told that I'm smart and should be able to do this etc. I always thought it was my being autistic which is why I had so much trouble with school but recently I actually looked up what ADHD actually does other than what it says on the tin (This thread has helped loads, thanks guys) and realised most of my issues at school were due to ADHD not autism.
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May 11, 2011 14:00
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Fiendish Dr. Wu posted:I also want to know, if ADHD is the diagnoses, about your opinions of alternative "therapies" instead of drugging my kid. My honest opinion (not trolling, hoping not to get flamed) is that too many people are too quick to say it's ADHD and way too ready to pump their kids full of drugs that could lead to a lifelong addiction and a constant feeling that something's "wrong" with them. I say this from knowing several people while growing up who were diagnosed with ADHD and been prescribed meds for it. I've seen some kids change personalities completely and go from being a ball of happiness to a void of personality and that scares me. I've seen friends become depressed and suicidal, friends who have told me specifically they feel that way because of the meds. As someone who skipped a grade, got into the single-digit-grade-school gifted program, all the gifted classes in high school, and even the gifted program in college solely due to near perfect SAT scores, all while failing classes because I can't do repetitive homework, as well as huge negative impacts in other areas of life, please don't do take this route in your consideration of things. It might look ok now, it was for me then too. As he is expected to take on more and more responsibility and daily and academic tasks become more complex and long-term, it will start falling apart if he has ADHD, and then it will be an unnecessary waste of years of his life. I was pretty much resigned to "I guess I'll just know everything there is and do ABSOLUTELY NOTHING with it except tutor people to pass their classes for free while I fail the classes myself" for about a decade before I found out what ADHD is really about, and got a diagnosis. The medication helps soooo much. All the excessive motor activity and disruptions aren't the real problem, it's just the most obvious symptom. They are coping mechanisms for the real problem, and those coping mechanisms people have problems with are certainly not anywhere near the most impairing part of the disorder. Have you seen the movie Limitless? If you take away the addiction problem the magic pills have, that is pretty much only a very slight exaggeration of what taking ADHD meds do for me. If your child is also incredibly gifted like me, and has ADHD, the difference in performance later in life medicated vs not will also likely be similarly huge. The entire movie is pretty much a metaphor for ADHD actually. The stigma (like when his lady friend leaves him when she finds out), the side effects (though it pretty much only mainly features the addiction risk, and the risk of that is pretty much non-existent at therapeutic doses you're prescribed), the personal thoughts on whether the less able person is the real person or not... I don't exactly agree with the way some of it was portrayed, but I'll chalk it up to exaggeration, and think the thoughts it provokes are worthwhile for it's flaws. Actually, I kind of wish I were addicted to my meds, because at least then I wouldn't have so many problems "remembering" to take them. Edit: I haven't even gotten into the tens of thousands of needlessly wasted dollars outside of an academic context, or the danger I put myself into. If your child is very intelligent and ADHD, it is likely he may become aware of the difference between his intent and his actual performance yet not see any rational reasoning behind it. This isn't something you can rationalize yourself out of. It is (for a simple explanation) caused by a physical deficiency in certain brain structures related to (roughly, as a simple explanation) long-term decision making and resuming interrupted tasks, among other things. It is not really an impairment in the ability to learn in and of itself. To paraphrase Russel Barkley, the bleeding edge ADHD researcher, "ADHD is a deficiency in performance, not a deficiency in ability." Your child, if ADHD and unmedicated, will have to come to terms with being aware of their great ability, and also being aware of their completely irrational inability to perform up to those abilities such as I have with my previous life motto "I guess I'll just know everything there is and do ABSOLUTELY NOTHING with it". Further edit just for extra clarity: All the pencil tapping, pacing, music listening to concentrate better, and reduced ability to hold my words a bit before speaking so it's not all stream-of-consciousness (such as all these edits here, imagine me doing this ALL THE TIME in real life because I do) are really minor in my opinion (and I don't care in an innate manner since the previous are all comforting to me) compared to not filing tax returns worth $1-2k a year or not fixing the brakes on my car ever so I can't drive it which restricts my ability to do anything I may want away from the house, or not doing my time sheets properly so I waste getting paid for quite a bit of overtime or... Last edit hopefully: I have some resources to (hopefully) explain the real deep problem no one really see more clearly too. Have these (particularly the first since it is pretty much directly about the inability to self-regulate that is really the root cause of the symptoms before you actually go into the neurology of it for the majority type of ADHD). http://www.russellbarkley.org/content/ADHD_EF_and_SR.pdf http://www.russellbarkley.org/content/adhd-facts.pdf http://www.russellbarkley.org/content/ClassroomAccommodations.pdf Ok, that wasn't the last: Don't take the message of the first thing I linked to mean that it is a moral failing of your child to have this disorder. It's like having a malformed leg at birth, except it's a piece of your brain no one can see. Unless you think people without legs are bad people for not having legs, ADHD people aren't bad people for having ADHD. If it's there, it's better to recognize it and do something about it rather than try to pretend you actually have legs when you don't. If your child actually isn't ADHD, that's great though. But please don't dismiss it just because you don't want him "put in a box", because if he has ADHD, he'll just be in a different box trapped by his own biology. The "zombie" thing is anecdotally more of a concern (but has less actual medical bearing than the stigma's strength propagating it), but why let that stop you from trying it first since it could really help greatly? Also, honestly, I feel far more "wrong" unmedicated, because it hampers my ability to be who I want when I'm not medicated. Edit for a little bit more still: I used to think ADHD was all just made up to calm kids down (since that's the general media narrative), and then I read about what ADHD really was and was all "Huh. That sounds like me." and I have a very different opinion of it now after doing a bunch of research on it. Kylra fucked around with this message at 15:45 on May 11, 2011 |
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May 11, 2011 14:20
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^^^this post is awesome and absolutely true! Especially the part about being extremely "gifted" with super-high test scores yet being unable to finish homework on time even though you're helping others pass the same classes. Also, as someone else said, I know it "feels" wrong to give your kid drugs, but take it from me - being adequately medicated through school makes a HUGE HUGE HUGE HUGE difference in addictive tendencies later in life. Basically, people with ADHD will try to self-medicate with whatever they can if they have not had the experience of being properly medicated for their disorder by a doctor. You want your child to know what it feels like to be properly medicated so that they don't end up using alcohol/cocaine/opiates/copious marijuana to fill that void in their brain. wilfredmerriweathr fucked around with this message at 15:20 on May 11, 2011 |
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May 11, 2011 15:16
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I'm also open to more questions if you or anyone else has any. I've done dozens (if not over a hundred by now) of hours of research on ADHD (yeah, pretty ironic if you take the media's narrative definition) and it's effects (and to some extent it's co-morbid or very similar conditions) even aside from my personal experiences, so I know a few things that might be able to dispel various myths, and can probably provide more medical/scientific resources as well related to them. I was also probably pretty lucky to come up with the life-motto of "I guess I'll just know everything there is and do ABSOLUTELY NOTHING with it" since usually seems to end up "I'm a worthless lazy person" for a lot of ADHD people because that's what they're usually told all the time barring some kind of support to counter the impairment or learning about the true condition. cloudstrife2993 posted:^^^this post is awesome and absolutely true! Especially the part about being extremely "gifted" with super-high test scores yet being unable to finish homework on time even though you're helping others pass the same classes. You shouldn't put gifted in quotes here if you are. You can be gifted in some areas (like I am with pretty much anything learning or metacognition related) but impaired in others. You're just both gifted and impaired. Take pride in and use the gift you have regardless of other impairments. A term I've seen used sometimes (and may actually be official, I'm not sure) when someone is both gifted in some manner and has a disability affecting it is "twice exceptional". quote:You want your child to know what it feels like to be properly medicated so that they don't end up using alcohol/cocaine/opiates/copious marijuana to fill that void in their brain. Kylra fucked around with this message at 15:40 on May 11, 2011 |
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May 11, 2011 15:23
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Also, I'd like to make a small statement that might clarify something I have said in case it sounds confusing. For me at least, ADHD doesn't impair the learning process itself in my head at all. It's just that the things I am trying to learn from do not get processed as useful information because that part is off processing something else into information. If I can process the words into information, I learn great and have super retention. The problem is sometimes the words don't turn into information and just remain meaningless symbols because that part is off being busy processing anything else instead into information (and possibly learning things about that) instead and I can't force it to do otherwise. It's a little nuanced and semantical and the end result of the problem is the same (no learning about what you're trying to learn), but I think it helps clarify what is actually the problem for helping with it or understanding it more effectively. This is aside from potential co-morbid dyslexia someone might have which is an extra different problem and is more directly about not being able to process the information correctly. Kylra fucked around with this message at 16:06 on May 11, 2011 |
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May 11, 2011 15:58
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Guy with possible add kid: if he does (or even if he doesn't really) get him OUTSIDE. Get him into gymboree, t-ball, etc. There's a reason so many goons in this thread are all BIKES!!! a combination of proper medicine and proper exercise keep me going. Even before I started stimulants it was easier to concentrate after some real physical exertion.
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May 11, 2011 16:07
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2508084 posted:Guy with possible add kid: if he does (or even if he doesn't really) get him OUTSIDE. Get him into gymboree, t-ball, etc. There's a reason so many goons in this thread are all BIKES!!! a combination of proper medicine and proper exercise keep me going. Even before I started stimulants it was easier to concentrate after some real physical exertion. That's still not really a good substitute for meds though if there's a real problem. Just to make that clear. You're still using up lots of extra time to do things by using this as a coping mechanism. Bikes are pretty cool though. You just can't write your math homework or file your tax returns while using them unfortunately.
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May 11, 2011 16:24
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Kylra posted:That's still not really a good substitute for meds though if there's a real problem. Just to make that clear. You're still using up lots of extra time to do things by using this as a coping mechanism. I didn't say it was a substitute. I said a combination of proper meds and proper exercise keep me going. Meds alone help a great deal, but if I sit and play video games all day as opposed to going for a jog/lifting/being physically active in general I'm not as on point.
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May 11, 2011 16:30
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2508084 posted:I didn't say it was a substitute. I said a combination of proper meds and proper exercise keep me going. Meds alone help a great deal, but if I sit and play video games all day as opposed to going for a jog/lifting/being physically active in general I'm not as on point. Yeah, I just wanted to make that clear because Dr. Wu was asking about potential alternate treatments.
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May 11, 2011 16:39
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Two things. Why do you think he would only be affected by ADD at school, but not home? Just curious because I have a kid and wonder about the behavior differences. Why does intelligence have anything to do with ADD? Almost everyone who claims to have ADD also claims to have superior intelligence. It could just be a thing on this forum I guess, but it seems like a lot of people can't talk about their or their kid's ADD without also pointing out their genius potential. It's almost as if it's become a diagnostic criterium. While it might be a nice stereotype, it's not always true.
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May 11, 2011 16:43
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quote:Why does intelligence have anything to do with ADD? Almost everyone who claims to have ADD also claims to have superior intelligence. It could just be a thing on this forum I guess, but it seems like a lot of people can't talk about their or their kid's ADD without also pointing out their genius potential. It's almost as if it's become a diagnostic criterium. While it might be a nice stereotype, it's not always true. This could just be because those that aren't as intelligent don't recognize it and thus never get treated for it. Also, part of ADHD is about performance variance across a diverse variety of tasks within different "spheres" (home/work/school/general social). People who are generally less intelligent are probably less likely to have as much variance imposed from ADHD impairment to be noticed for a possible diagnosis. While I wouldn't say it's a diagnostic criterion itself, it makes things more pronounced and noticeable. quote:III. Some impairment from the symptoms is present in two or more settings (e.g. at school/work and at home). In the same manner as someone could (hypothetically) be born without legs and with a neurological condition that paralyzes their legs (or would if they had any), the latter probably isn't going to be noticed nor diagnosed. Kylra fucked around with this message at 16:58 on May 11, 2011 |
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May 11, 2011 16:52
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Kylra posted:This could just be because those that aren't as intelligent don't recognize it and thus never get treated for it. Also, part of ADHD is about performance variance across a diverse variety of tasks within different "spheres" (home/work/school/general social). People who are generally less intelligent are probably less likely to have as much variance imposed from ADHD impairment to be noticed for a possible diagnosis. While I wouldn't say it's a diagnostic criterion itself, it makes things more pronounced and noticeable.
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May 11, 2011 17:02
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opie posted:but in the cases I'm talking about the people have already been diagnosed. Since this is the ADHD thread and this is going to be several bits of stuff in a line, I'm going to numerically list this out instead of paragraphing it (just in case). 1) The diagnosis itself is about performance variance and impairment. 2) More intelligent people are more likely to evidence this variance and impairment because of the greater amount ability they are unable to use when ADHD strikes 3) Thus a disproportionately large number of more intelligent people get diagnosed with ADHD 4) Thus more people diagnosed with ADHD are posting saying they are/are considered intelligent Extend this to parents talking about their children too. quote:So qualifying the ADD diagnosis with "but I'm (or my kid is) actually brilliant" adds nothing and has nothing to do with the disorder. It doesn't help people who may not be potential nuclear physicists but still struggle with everyday tasks. This is correct. But there is a significant stigma that ADHD people are all stupid and/or lazy, which is what "but I'm (or my kid is) actually brilliant" is about which is a statement doesn't help smart people who have ADHD (because it's trying to imply that smart people can't have ADHD which is incorrect because, as you say, it has nothing to do with actual intelligence). Kylra fucked around with this message at 17:17 on May 11, 2011 |
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May 11, 2011 17:14
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opie posted:
For me, and I think many others, it was the fact that my mother was a very large source of structure and order in my life. So much so that when at home I seemed almost fine, but that was only because she was really able to micromanage me in a way that help circumvent many ADD issues. School didn't have such a thing. You will also notice this pop up when undiagnosed/untreated ADHD teens start to go to college and lose all that structure, and their life starts to fall to poo poo because of it.
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May 11, 2011 17:26
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opie posted:Two things. Historical factoid: George Still did the first real study on children with ADHD (aka "moral idiots" at the time) in about 1902, and this is one of the things he noticed. These children seem to do okay in one environment, and worse at another. When they change schools, they start off doing really quite well, and then the behavior problems come back. The intelligence thing is maybe just because of the contrast between when the child is really focusing versus when they are not, since instead of running the range between doing great and terribly (usually around average though), they either perform great or terribly without much in between. quote:Also, part of ADHD is about performance variance across a diverse variety of tasks within different "spheres" (home/work/school/general social). People who are generally less intelligent are probably less likely to have as much variance imposed from ADHD impairment to be noticed for a possible diagnosis. While I wouldn't say it's a diagnostic criterion itself, it makes things more pronounced and noticeable.
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May 11, 2011 23:38
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The thing about us all claiming to be super intelligent (or at least having tonnes of school awards, high marks or less trouble understanding material) is that it's actually pretty bad to be this smart + adhd. That was a huge, painful part of my childhood knowing that I *could* read the adult fantasy books when I was 8, but I never could sit down long enough. I did understand everything in science class, but when it came to studying, self taught material or homework I would fail. You know these things, you know you're smart, yet you just can't get the info out the way you need to. it's cause me sooooooo much distress, making me wonder if I was an idiot savant, or just so lazy I would rather read random articles online than do my work. Hell, in college I watched a 74 episode anime in a week, then wrote a huge novella-esque essay about the themes for fun. But I failed out that year.
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May 11, 2011 23:52
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taylor posted:It's clear that III is there rule out a specific environmental cause, like if a child only has ADHD symptoms in music class, it's probably not ADHD. Maybe they hate music class, or their fellow instrument players, etc. If it's in music class and in math class (two different settings???), then maybe it is ADHD after all. Yeah. I really only put that one in there because I had just mentioned it a paragraph above rather than to make my point below where I quoted it. Music and math class do not count as two different settings for these purposes though (at least as far as I know it's not common for doctors to treat them as different settings and that's not the intent). They're both "School". School, Work, Prison, Social Events, and Home might all commonly be considered different settings though. This kind of thing is why trying to diagnose yourself (either way, positive or negative) based on just the DSM criteria (for any of the disorders) is a Bad Idea. Aculard posted:That was a huge, painful part of my childhood knowing that I *could* read the adult fantasy books when I was 8, but I never could sit down long enough. Not sure I could do it as well now though because I recognize the formulas more since I've read a few and it might get repetitive. Kind of like how MMORPGs in general are to me now. I used to love playing Everquest and DAOC, but now? Can't stand any of them that use that formula because I know it all and after the initial jump of learning all the statistics, it's the same thing forever. Kylra fucked around with this message at 00:29 on May 12, 2011 |
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May 12, 2011 00:18
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Aculard posted:The thing about us all claiming to be super intelligent (or at least having tonnes of school awards, high marks or less trouble understanding material) is that it's actually pretty bad to be this smart + adhd. That was a huge, painful part of my childhood knowing that I *could* read the adult fantasy books when I was 8, but I never could sit down long enough. I did understand everything in science class, but when it came to studying, self taught material or homework I would fail. I remember distinctly one summer when I was 10, I sat down one afternoon and read 20 pages of a book *in a row, without stopping*, and it seemed effortless. Now, I read all the time (and still do), but usually in little spurts - a few pages here, a chapter there. But sitting down and doing nothing but reading for an extended period of time? It didn't happen. I also remember feeling really happy about this for some reason, and how I wanted to be able to do this whenever I wanted. But instead, I was literally all BIKES!!! all the time.
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May 12, 2011 00:29
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For me, I can read thousands of pages in a row (such as the internet for an easy example)...as long as it is a topic of interest to me, it is a fairly consistently novel experience, and I can move around as much as I want. If it's none of of those are true, it's likely to remain just some meaningless ink unless there is an immediate need (not a should, need). I move a lot while sitting down. I've shifted my body to at least 8 different positions typing this post and swapped which leg is over/under or just their general position at least a dozen. I just happened to be pretty squirmy this time. Usually I'm just tapping my foot rapidly or something with only a few position shifts. But still... If only some of the things in my first paragraph are true, I'm somewhat liable to either take a long time doing it or I'll unknowingly skip over parts of it, or I'll intersperse it with napping from the huge amounts of fatigue from repeatedly moving my eyes over the same words until they process. Kylra fucked around with this message at 00:46 on May 12, 2011 |
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May 12, 2011 00:37
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Thank you guys for polite and informative responses. I was a little worried I'd be booed out of the thread. So much information, so many replies to be made... keeping it short: I haven't yet made up my mind that my kid has ADHD, but I will be taking him to be tested. TheBigBad posted:Honestly I think its too early to tell. If you suspect it, then take him for appropriate testing. He could simply be smart and unchallenged. I wasn't diagnosed until my 30s and I wish I would have been diagnosed and treated as a teenager or twenty something, but I don't think I personally would want to be treated with medication until after 6th grade and only if it caused issues with socialization and my grades/study habits as it did. Alucard posted:The thing you need to realize Fiendish Dr. Wu is that he will not be that "smart" forever. He's going to look really intelligent for the first few years of school, but once he settles into grade 6 and onwards you are probably going to start seeing his grades drop, if not completely off the map during high school. Goodpancakes posted:I'll give you the otherside of the coin here. I was diagnosed just this year (I am 27) after seeking help for depression and anxiety. My parents were told that I likely had it many times when I was younger, however, they never wanted me treated. They didn't want me slapped with a label or "put into a box" (I didn't know this until this year).... Kylra posted:everything 2508084 posted:Guy with possible add kid: if he does (or even if he doesn't really) get him OUTSIDE. Get him into gymboree, t-ball, etc. There's a reason so many goons in this thread are all BIKES!!! a combination of proper medicine and proper exercise keep me going. Even before I started stimulants it was easier to concentrate after some real physical exertion. opie posted:Two things. Regarding the intelligence thing, same for me. It seems like you can't hear a parent say "my kid has ADD/ADHD" without chiming in about how smart they are. It's like they're trying to validate their kid. I put those 2 examples of my kid at school in my op because those are things his teacher has told me specifically and I thought it would be important for others to know while he's the subject. Anyways, thanks for the input guys. I'll be actively reading this thread and I'll update more after he gets tested. I understand it'll be a lot of hard work, and I'm ready for that. I'll do anything for my kid (of course) and want to protect him, I guess that's one of the reasons I'm so wary about all this.
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May 12, 2011 06:27
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Your kid's teacher probably IS a total idiot, and your kid can see that and is like "this dudes retarded, I'm gonna gently caress around and have fun." at least that's what my grade-school mentality was.
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May 12, 2011 13:19
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Unless I missed it, nobody mentioned getting hold of a copy of Delivered from Distraction. It's worth anyone's read if you're at all worried about your kid/partner/self having the disorder. Also if your kid is super intelligent (and continues to be) then I'd be wary of waiting for a sign of declining grades as any sort of confirmation of ADHD. It isn't unheard of for people to get through school and even undergrad degrees getting ridiculously good marks while having their personal lives be a depressing wreck that could have otherwise been avoided with correct treatment.
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May 12, 2011 14:07
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Fiendish Dr. Wu posted:That's what I'm scared of. quote:So much info. Will read those pdf's for sure. If you're able to interpret more clinical stuff correctly (as in, more than just knowing some definition of the words, but the actual semantics and theory behind it), Barkley has many books on the subject that could be useful for understanding. However, he has a few aimed at parents (the most recent I think is Your Defiant Teen but may not be ADHD specific) and some at older children/adults that are cognizant of their issues, of which the most recent is Taking Charge of Adult ADHD. I'm only really familiar with his more clinical work (which is awesome and all of the clinically knowledgeable ADHD people I know agree or at least don't disagree with his representation of the symptoms and problems), but I would guess his non-clinically targeted work is at least useful for relatively average or above intelligence people. Also, as a side note, the majority type (at least) of ADHD is currently found to be largely genetic, and is currently empirically determined to be more genetically determined than things like height or intelligence. If either you or your spouse (I'm assuming you made your kid with a spouse anyway) has symptoms of ADHD that I have been describing (even if one or both of you won't admit it to yourselves, but I'll leave that exercise to you), it will lend a lot of credence to a positive diagnosis in your child if the diagnosing physician is familiar with the leading edge of ADHD science. If this last fact assertion seems fantastically unbelievable to anyone, I'm sure I can go dig it up. The main source I have is, ironically, a 2 hour video of one of Barkley's presentations about ADHD, so I'm not sure how viable that source will be for this thread unless they find the whole thing interesting. Maybe I'll just dig it up later and post it here later anyway. It's pretty morbidly fascinating to me that this kind of condition exists, even though I have it. Kylra fucked around with this message at 17:03 on May 12, 2011 |
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May 12, 2011 14:36
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Fiendish Dr. Wu posted:He's also signed up for taekwondo which is great physical exertion for the kids. Taekwondo helped me greatly as a kid, particularly since there's more to it than just exercise. If possible, make sure your son is taught by an instructor who emphasizes the discipline, willpower, and self-control elements within the martial art as much as the physical training and sparring. The instructors at my dojang really emphasized that the training is meant to be a way of challenging and strengthening the whole person, not just the body. For reference, the Five Tenets of Taekwondo are: Courtesy, Integrity, Perseverance, Self-Control, and Indomitable Spirit. It really sounds like your boy would benefit a great deal from taking all of those to heart; I know they helped me to take responsibility for my screwups, treat others with respect, control my impulses, and generally be a much better kid. e: Of course, there's also the self-defence angle, obviously. Taekwondo doesn't really teach any fighting techniques that are applicable outside the dojang, but it was the only thing that gave me the courage to stand up to, and bloody the nose of, the biggest bully in my elementary school. He left me alone after that, which was an incalculable blessing for a scrawny 10-year-old with a lousy self-image. Angry Diplomat fucked around with this message at 16:00 on May 12, 2011 |
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May 12, 2011 15:42
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I'm late to this entire thread, but here's my input on the situation with your kid, Fiendish Dr. Wu. Definitely get them screened for ADHD. However, if the behaviors are really that disparate between home and work, it just might not be the right school environment for him. I didn't catch this, but do his teachers also think that it's ADHD? What do they say? If they do think it's ADHD, it's not the end of the world - even if you choose not to treat him with medications (for whatever reason), the diagnosis alone will make him eligible for possible special services or learning accommodations when he does hit school. Plus the work world, when he gets older. And if they don't think that he has ADHD now, he could still be diagnosed with it later. Or, he may not be diagnosed with it at all. In my case, when I was young, I was having problems all over the place. Couldn't follow directions, couldn't remember directions, was hyper all the time, and was generally a handful. It was definitely amplified in school, but my homelife was the same way. I think that enrolling him in a structured sport is an excellent idea. Good luck.
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May 12, 2011 15:59
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Urgh, I finally refilled my adderall Xr and even got it bumped up to 25mg. Took it waaaay too late in the day since I was excited to paint with some friends. Today, in the midst of being sleep deprived and having the apartment sink unclogged after a week of waiting, I tried to do dishes and didn't notice the broken glass at the bottom - which, of course, cut open my thumb and ruined the next 2 weeks worth of going to the gym and drawing. I was just getting the hang of painting in photoshop too 
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May 12, 2011 17:43
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This thread is getting kind of long. Maybe we should have a new thread OP that actually has lots of information in it dispelling myths, more objectively laying out the side effects of the medication etc instead of just "Hey I have ADHD ask me stuff (if I remember to stick around)" (not that I'm trying to bash Stofoleez, because any thread is probably better than no thread here). If people posting here think it's a good idea I can -try- putting a coherent one for both ADHD people and non together, filled with lots of good information, and maybe some examples of what it's really like as opposed to the typical media narrative that (in my experience) typically focuses mostly on the excessive movement and social problems. I can't guarantee I'll actually finish it though...because...yanno... But I can try!
Kylra fucked around with this message at 19:58 on May 12, 2011 |
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May 12, 2011 19:03
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Kylra posted:This thread is getting kind of long. Maybe we should have a new thread OP that actually has lots of information in it dispelling myths, more objectively laying out the side effects of the medication etc instead of just "Hey I have ADHD ask me stuff (if I remember to stick around)" (not that I'm trying to bash Stofoleez, because any thread is better than no thread). If people posting here think it's a good idea I can -try- putting a coherent one for both ADHD people and non together, filled with lots of good information, and maybe some examples of what it's really like as opposed to the typical media narrative that (in my experience) typically focuses mostly on the excessive movement and social problems. That sounds really good to me!
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May 12, 2011 19:35
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