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!amicable posted:The Witcher 2 will ease those feelings of predictability. And it's actually challenging. Yes, everybody needs to play The Witcher 2, an actual good RPG with grey choices and a shitload of customization, plus challenge, exploration, tons of sidequests, interesting characters, and some actually fun combat.
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Jun 5, 2011 09:49
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Anyone know any good RPG's for netbooks? Specifically a Asus 1000he. Someone mentioned that Torchlight could be played on it, any other suggestions? Btw I'm talking about new games, it can play fallout and Starcraft just fine. EDIT: Also, any opinions on Under Siege that just got released on PSN? Looks interesting: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=khmL32S7ltg&feature=related casual poster fucked around with this message at 15:53 on Jun 5, 2011 |
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Jun 5, 2011 15:50
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Just started getting into Legend of Heroes - Trails of the Sky and it's really neat, definitely has a Grandia 1/2 vibe about it.Dr. Glasscock posted:Dungeon Siege 3 is coming soon but it doesn't look terribly stellar. Anything Obsidian does is at least worth a look.
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Jun 5, 2011 15:55
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Someone mentioned Alpha Protocol and I was actually eyeing that since its on sale. How is it?Rascyc posted:It's a perfectly playable game, especially if you like the sci-fi genre (of which there are hardly many good modern RPGs). I'd suggest just playing it before reading too much and letting selective bias ruin your experience. Fantastic post, thanks. Ice Blue posted:I wouldn't call it a bad game. It may be disappointing to some but not really a bad game unless you're big on hyperbole. Plus I don't know if I'd say DA2 got "fantastic reviews". It was inflated still but not really that high compared to DAO. ME2 was a great game to many people and considered GOTY by many people. I don't think you could say the same about DA2. So its a lot like GTA IV?
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Jun 5, 2011 17:25
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Yeah I'd say like GTA4 is pretty close. (I really liked GTA4) A lot of pre-release hype and they mostly lived up to expectations but the almost perfect reviews after their release was overblown; a year later flaws are obvious but it doesn't detract from the fact that they are (very) good games.
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Jun 5, 2011 17:33
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punk rebel ecks posted:Someone mentioned Alpha Protocol and I was actually eyeing that since its on sale. How is it? Alpha Protocol is unpolished and depending on your style choices, the gameplay can range from really easy and precise to messy and unfun. Where it really shines is the story and the flow of the plot. Minor decisions made throughout the game can have large impacts on the story - to the degree where it is very difficult to have two identical playthroughs. The dialog system is simple, streamlined and quite excellent IMO. You choose from "styles" of dialog ranging from Suave, Agressive, etc. I do have to stress the unpolished nature of the game. Bugs abound (it's Obsidian) but if you can pick it up cheap and give it a fair shot, it's worth the time to find out if you like it or not.
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Jun 5, 2011 17:34
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*Sigh* Why is it so hard for WRPG developers to make a fully polished and cooked game? Long development time vs due dates?
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Jun 5, 2011 17:42
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punk rebel ecks posted:*Sigh* Why is it so hard for WRPG developers to make a fully polished and cooked game?
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Jun 5, 2011 18:06
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punk rebel ecks posted:*Sigh* Why is it so hard for WRPG developers to make a fully polished and cooked game? I'd have to guess that. Alpha Protocol is amazing because of the sheer depth of the content. Sure, you visit the same locales playthrough after playthrough but the game really hinges on how the choices you make change the lay of the land and indeed, how well you understand the story itself. I can only guess that would be difficult to playtest with the limited funding available for the task.
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Jun 5, 2011 18:08
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WRPGs generally have far more complexity in player agency, which makes the game hella hard to fully bugtest and polish unless you have a lot of money and a highly dedicated QA team. Your average line of dialogue in a JRPG is just that: a line of dialogue, whereas the average line of dialogue in a WRPG could easily split off into three separate options, which could then also split into three separate options each, and selecting one of those options might impact a particular plot flag down the road, or spawn more monsters, etc. It means that you need a much longer development cycle in general in order to properly refine the product.
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Jun 5, 2011 18:14
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Vermain posted:WRPGs generally have far more complexity in player agency, which makes the game hella hard to fully bugtest and polish unless you have a lot of money and a highly dedicated QA team. Your average line of dialogue in a JRPG is just that: a line of dialogue, whereas the average line of dialogue in a WRPG could easily split off into three separate options, which could then also split into three separate options each, and selecting one of those options might impact a particular plot flag down the road, or spawn more monsters, etc. It means that you need a much longer development cycle in general in order to properly refine the product. The trend of emphasizing breadth really puts a strain on everything, not just QA but also art assets. Ultimately, though, it makes better games in bigger worlds. We just have to wait for them. Funny (if you recall for instance the response to guided tour that was FFXIII) how we've come to expect open ends and branching paths, while JRPGs haven't really delivered yet.
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Jun 5, 2011 19:21
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And that's another reason you should play The Witcher 2; it's ridiculously polished compared to other WRPGs and as far as I'm aware has no game-breaking bugs.
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Jun 5, 2011 19:28
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Slacker Ace posted:And that's another reason you should play The Witcher 2; it's ridiculously polished compared to other WRPGs and as far as I'm aware has no game-breaking bugs. Ah, there are a few bugs, but knowing CDprojekt they're pounding the pulp out of them right now.
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Jun 5, 2011 19:35
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Levantine posted:Bugs abound (it's Obsidian) but if you can pick it up cheap and give it a fair shot, it's worth the time to find out if you like it or not. People always say this, but compared to the competition it's on par at worst. I never had any gamebreaking issues in AP. In ME2 I was getting stuck in walls and forced to reload regularly. Bioware's other stuff is equally bad. Bethesda? Welp.
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Jun 5, 2011 21:07
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sixide posted:People always say this, but compared to the competition it's on par at worst. I never had any gamebreaking issues in AP. In ME2 I was getting stuck in walls and forced to reload regularly. Bioware's other stuff is equally bad. Bethesda? Welp. Yeah it pissed me off that Alpha Protocol's bugs got brought up so much. I really didn't notice anything when playing it myself, the worst bug being one that moved me back one checkpoint in the first mission (With all my progress intact), which actually saved me.
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Jun 5, 2011 21:27
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Sachant posted:Funny (if you recall for instance the response to guided tour that was FFXIII) how we've come to expect open ends and branching paths, while JRPGs haven't really delivered yet. In all fairness FF13 was a step back in that regard, not "another example" of JRPGs offering no open-endedness. Almost every other JRPG from FF12 to the original Super Mario RPG was more open-ended than FF13, or at least had many more secrets and much more optional content that contributed to a feeling of exploration regardless of their actual (lack of) freedom of choice. Pee pee doo doo FF13 is a Bad Game
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Jun 5, 2011 21:31
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Speaking of open-endedness, I played Fallout 2 and really liked how open it was. Are Fallout 3 and New Vegas more or less open?
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Jun 5, 2011 22:33
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sixide posted:People always say this, but compared to the competition it's on par at worst. I never had any gamebreaking issues in AP. In ME2 I was getting stuck in walls and forced to reload regularly. Bioware's other stuff is equally bad. Bethesda? Welp. I had very few issues either but I've read about so many I'd rather not build someone up and then have them be one of those plagued with the problems. I played the 360 version and it was pretty solid for me at any rate.
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Jun 5, 2011 22:41
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Sam. posted:Speaking of open-endedness, I played Fallout 2 and really liked how open it was. Are Fallout 3 and New Vegas more or less open? New Vegas yes as it's basically what Fallout 3 would have been like if Black Isle made it. In Bethesda's Fallout 3, you're pretty much railroaded into a single path as far as the main quest goes. There's some decision making in the side-quests but it's the usual either comical super villain or angel of mercy and nothing in between.
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Jun 5, 2011 22:56
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sixide posted:In ME2 I was getting stuck in walls and forced to reload regularly. Bioware's other stuff is equally bad. Bethesda? Welp. I only begrudgingly accept the whole 'western games have bugs because they're more open' thing. It is true that it's hard to account for player will in western-styled RPGs, but that should really only apply to gameplay and fringe-case technical issues. While not an RPG, Just Cause 2's world map is flamboyantly humongous, and I only found one place in the entire game where i could do something i wasn't supposed to be able to do (a clipping bug).
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Jun 5, 2011 23:52
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Slacker Ace posted:And that's another reason you should play The Witcher 2; it's ridiculously polished compared to other WRPGs and as far as I'm aware has no game-breaking bugs. Also nobody can honestly say with a straight face that the end to Witcher 2 wasn't rushed, compared to the rest of the game. Witcher 2 is a decent game, but I think it gets a slightly better limelight because it's following on the heels of DA2. Slacker Ace posted:New Vegas yes as it's basically what Fallout 3 would have been like if Black Isle made it. New Vegas is the better game for people who want some narrative, but it does have a bit more railroading on how you play the early game as the other "obvious" path of exploration takes you through Deathclaw infested hills. This was the point of much criticism at NV's launch (aside from bugs). You end up taking this rather roundabout way to New Vegas that progresses you in levels nicely and also exposes you to a lot of cool areas/writing (all of which you can skip, sure). NV's main plot however does have quite a bit more room for choice. Rascyc fucked around with this message at 00:48 on Jun 6, 2011 |
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Jun 6, 2011 00:40
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Fallout 3 is a good game by its own right, but it's narrative necessitates a certain degree of linearity as you pursue your father through the wasteland. It's a more personal narrative as it deals with the concept of family and legacy, but as a shortfall it isn't that funny or creative. New Vegas takes the opposite route, the plot is a very simple revenge tale in the vein of the spaghetti western, leaving origins, personality and priorities wide open. The end goal is in sight very early on, but you're given no sense of urgency or no big push to pursue it right away. With the main plot so open ended, the side quests have been given a huge amount of care and the options for solving problems are astounding. I've been playing it about three or four hours a night for the past week and i'm still wide eyed with wonder with every quest i work through. Whilst I appreciate the care and quality of the first two games, I don't find them particularly fun to play, so New Vegas is an excellent compromise. gently caress those Cazadores though
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Jun 6, 2011 00:59
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If I really disliked DA:O, would I like Mass Effect 2? Also can a brother get Persona 5 up in here????
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Jun 6, 2011 01:09
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Rascyc posted:Plenty of script breaking bugs were in the game at launch, admittedly most of which are fixed by now. Lots of interface bugs, almost frustratingly so at times. Quite a few people could not even launch the game either until the first major patch got pushed out. Of course, but I did mention compared to other WRPGs, especially after the fact that they managed to stamp out most of the serious bugs in a single patch 2 weeks after launch. These script bugs were extremely situational though; I only encountered 1 in my 2 playthroughs pre-patch. quote:Also nobody can honestly say with a straight face that the end to Witcher 2 wasn't rushed, compared to the rest of the game. It didn't have as much content as the other two Chapters if that's what you mean. But I'm not getting the complaints that the ending felt rushed or came out of nowhere. If you consider everything that happens during the Epilogue the actual ending which I think was the intent of the developers (and not just the cutscene), then it's more than a satisfying conclusion to the game as it ties up nearly all loose ends. quote:Witcher 2 is a decent game, but I think it gets a slightly better limelight because it's following on the heels of DA2. Just out of curiosity, what RPGs do you actually consider great?
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Jun 6, 2011 01:21
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Bigass Moth posted:If I really disliked DA:O, would I like Mass Effect 2? There is absolutely nothing comparable about DA:O and ME2. Seriously, they are barely the same genre of games. They both have RPG dialogue where you choose what you want to say, that is the only similarity.
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Jun 6, 2011 01:25
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I want to bring up Ultima again for a minute. My only experience with Ultima was Ultima 7 back when Exult was first starting to get around. I played dozens of hours of it, mostly just gathering some part members and exploring. Since EA released Ultima IV for free (y'know, it hasn't been on "abandonware" website for years now), I decided to give it a go. Basically, I tried playing it, looked up some guides, realized it's definitely a product of it's era, and decided I didn't want to go hunting for hidden runes in random mountains. Amazing idea, even today - which is why I think EA is probably remaking the game, possibly Bioware - but it's just too old. So I tried to go to V and VI and found out that they were both remade for Dungeon Siege! The Ultima 6 Project actually came out (1.0) last July, so nine years after they started.  I'm going to try downloading those and see how things go. Not like I'm lacking for RPGs at the moment, just in the mood for some of that Ultima magic.
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Jun 6, 2011 01:28
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Slacker Ace posted:It didn't have as much content as the other two Chapters if that's what you mean. But I'm not getting the complaints that the ending felt rushed or came out of nowhere. My general point is that the game has its own share of faults that probably didn't get as much criticism as it should have since people are so well-starved for CRPGs at this point, especially a replacement for DA2. Nitpicking over my complaints of the game is probably unnecessary though. I would still suggest the game to anyone who enjoys action RPGs, with a caveat of caution to be patient about the combat system. The setting and atmosphere alone are worth playing through.
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Jun 6, 2011 01:51
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Vermain posted:WRPGs generally have far more complexity in player agency, which makes the game hella hard to fully bugtest and polish unless you have a lot of money and a highly dedicated QA team. Your average line of dialogue in a JRPG is just that: a line of dialogue, whereas the average line of dialogue in a WRPG could easily split off into three separate options, which could then also split into three separate options each, and selecting one of those options might impact a particular plot flag down the road, or spawn more monsters, etc. It means that you need a much longer development cycle in general in order to properly refine the product. To be fair JRPG's are much longer through their first play throughs. The average WRPG takes about 20-25 hours to beat or so. While the average JRPG takes about 40-50. Not to mention Final Fantasy XIII as an example of openness in JRPG's? That's like saying "WRPG's all have poo poo real-time battle-systems, just look at Arcanum). Sachant posted:Funny (if you recall for instance the response to guided tour that was FFXIII) how we've come to expect open ends and branching paths, while JRPGs haven't really delivered yet. Different genres, different styles. You might as well compare Demon Souls to Oblivion. Exercu posted:Ah, there are a few bugs, but knowing CDprojekt they're pounding the pulp out of them right now. The only bugs that The Witcher 2 has are good ones (I.E. No pants).
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Jun 6, 2011 03:14
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The Machine posted:I want to bring up Ultima again for a minute. My only experience with Ultima was Ultima 7 back when Exult was first starting to get around. I played dozens of hours of it, mostly just gathering some part members and exploring. Since EA released Ultima IV for free (y'know, it hasn't been on "abandonware" website for years now), I decided to give it a go. The Lazarus remake of Ultima 5 is amazing, probably better than the original and I'd recommend it to anyone interested in Ultima or classic RPGs. The U6 remake is also a pretty decent not as amazing in my opinion as Lazarus but good nonetheless.
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Jun 6, 2011 03:17
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punk rebel ecks posted:To be fair JRPG's are much longer through their first play throughs.
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Jun 6, 2011 03:24
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Ice Blue posted:The thing is, it's kinda true that dialogue in JRPGs are generally pretty linear. I was just throwing it out there that JRPG's tend to be much longer than your average WRPG thus not being that far away from the amount of content that must be moderated. Ice Blue posted:These are much less common than people think. WRPGs are in general pretty linear as well. It's just that there are a few big name WRPGs from big developers that aren't like games by Bioware, Obsidian, and Bethesda. True. One can say the same thing about JRPG's all being "Final Fantasy-like". A vast majority of them aren't at all.
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Jun 6, 2011 05:00
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Oh hey someone said something about Seiken Densetsu 3 bugfix like a page ago. They were right, and it exists, but the problem is that you're going to have to look for it yourself because it seems to only exist in pre-patched releases.
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Jun 6, 2011 06:12
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punk rebel ecks posted:True. One can say the same thing about JRPG's all being "Final Fantasy-like". A vast majority of them aren't at all. If you want a non-railroaded jrpg, look no further than Square's own SaGa series. (Not that it has been expanded any time recently--the latest installment was the RS1 remake in 2005.) (Admittedly, the other examples of "free scenario"-type jrpgs I can think of are mostly amateur/freeware games, but that probably more a function of my playing habits than anything else.)
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Jun 6, 2011 10:55
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thark posted:If you want a non-railroaded jrpg, look no further than Square's own SaGa series. (Not that it has been expanded any time recently--the latest installment was the RS1 remake in 2005.) Actually, SaGa 2/3 have received DS remakes, with 2 getting a fan translation a few months ago. The more you know.
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Jun 6, 2011 11:09
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Morpheus posted:Yes, everybody needs to play The Witcher 2, an actual good RPG with grey choices and a shitload of customization, plus challenge, exploration, tons of sidequests, interesting characters, and some actually fun combat. I reloaded my save and played through both outcomes of the big choice at the end of chapter 1, and I still had major problems picking a choice afterwards. I liked them both, drat it  Both Witcher 1 and 2 have great grey choices - you feel like both a hero and a dick no matter what you do. I haven't finished 2 yet but in 1 I just let Geralt pick the moral choice that was most likely to get him laid, every time. That worked fine but led to some pretty hilariously awkward scenes like the man who hired you to find his missing sister catching you having sex with the sister's vampire "captors". Worst witcher ever. Renoistic fucked around with this message at 11:31 on Jun 6, 2011 |
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Jun 6, 2011 11:22
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Nutbladder posted:Part of the reason I'm so willing to poo poo all over ME1 at every opportunity is because when I played the game it was suffering from bubonic plague. I was clipping like a motherfucker and getting stuck in walls regularly. One time I even fell through the level. Sound got garbled every now and then and whenever I got into the Mako there was about a 30% chance that the game would release a horrific banshee wail that sounded like combination lovely horror movie screech and blender full of rocks. It also looked like complete rear end on the PC, and there were like two graphics options that did nothing to fix how horrible it looked. Well if that is how you had the game running, yeah it was horrible. Altough the preformance of ME1-PC wasn't perfect what you described isn't normal though; game had a launcher to set up the graphics i had some minor issues with clipping a couple of times in over 8 playtrhoughs Sorry to hear it ran so utterly crap and unacceptable for you though, I can understand the sour taste from that.
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Jun 6, 2011 11:39
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thark posted:If you want a non-railroaded jrpg, look no further than Square's own SaGa series. (Not that it has been expanded any time recently--the latest installment was the RS1 remake in 2005.) Totally sound like a shill for Last Remnant at this point, but it's definitely the spiritual successor to the SaGa name and is way open-ended, far more so than almost any western RPG I've played in a very long time. The storyline is maybe 25% of the content at most, less if you count rare monster spawns and DLC.
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Jun 6, 2011 13:43
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Zedd posted:Well if that is how you had the game running, yeah it was horrible. thark posted:If you want a non-railroaded jrpg, look no further than Square's own SaGa series.
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Jun 6, 2011 14:04
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Never played any of the SaGa games except Final Fantasy Legend 2. But I heard nothing but bad things about Unlimited Saga. It's basically an abortion of the series.
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Jun 6, 2011 14:18
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Unlimited SaGa is a one-off. None of the other SaGa games are like that other than similarities to the combat engine. Last Remnant is not really like a SaGa game in its world freedom I feel. In SaGa games you kind of stumble around and find the threads from interactions, and rewards exploration a lot more. LR just has thousands of side quests you can do, all accessible from the taverns. Typically you just kinda go to a bar, get a side quest, and in most cases it will simply transition to the side quest area. Repeat for each town you find in the world (with some exceptions, late in the game). I never felt like it had a SaGa vibe to its world, especially since a lot of LR quests are so similar. Might just be me.
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Jun 6, 2011 14:29
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