Grappling: Grab their foot in a threatening manner, it doesn't cost you anything

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Sports Argument Stadium > The Hammer House: Stinger Splash Zone > Grappling: Grab their foot in a threatening manner, it doesn't cost you anything

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Neurosis: Jun 10, 2003; Fallen Rib

This coverage is really annoying. As soon as one match gets interesting it changes to another.

# ? Jun 4, 2011 17:06

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# ? May 1, 2024 15:43

always be closing: Jul 16, 2005

budovideos.com/online

# ? Jun 4, 2011 17:38

Thoguh: Nov 8, 2002; College Slice

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qkI9jZPuWwU

Highlights of Cyborg's matches to win the gold this weekend. Some pretty sweet throws in there.

# ? Jun 4, 2011 19:37

dokomoy: May 21, 2004

Rodrigo Caporal just beat Romulo Barral in the first big upset of the day

# ? Jun 4, 2011 20:03

fatherdog: Feb 16, 2005

Harbison from Lloyd irvin just took nate diaz out with a bow-and-arrow choke

# ? Jun 4, 2011 20:08

fatherdog: Feb 16, 2005

Welp, looks like Royler's out -

quote:

From Royler Gracie:

To all my Fans.

Here is the truth regarding my potential participation in an ADCC Super Fight: I received a call from my cousin, Renzo, who told me that ADCC was interested in having me participate in their September event. I told him that it would be a pleasure for me to once again compete for the ADCC organization. Renzo said that ADCC Vice President Guy Nievens would contact me to negotiate the terms of my contract, including the purse for the match. The following day, the ADCC website reported the match and several media outlets contacted me. I stated that it would be great to once again train hard for a grappling match and that I was confident that we would be able to enter into a contract. At that point no details had been discussed nor had I even spoken with anyone from the ADCC organization regarding this match.

Guy Nievens called me several days later to negotiate the contract terms for the match. In my experience, these negotiations are always confidential. The very next day, I was shocked to learn that Mr. Nievens had disclosed certain details of our conversation to the public. Perhaps Mr. Nievens was attempting to trick me into entering into an unfair contract? Regardless of his motivation, it is deplorable that someone working for Sheik Tahnoon would, in my opinion, behave in such an unethical, unprofessional and disrespectful manner. The Sheik is a distinguished man who has been instrumental in the growth of submission wrestling throughout the world. Mr. Nievens� actions show, in my opinion, an inability to perform his duties as VP of ADCC and unworthiness to represent the Sheik.

Everyone knows that I am a fighter. I have never shied away from a challenge. Since I was 6 years old, I have fought hundreds of matches for free, just for the love of the sport. I have fought under sport jiu-jitsu rules, judo rules, submission wrestling rules, MMA rules and many times without any rules. I have faced opponents sometimes twice my size. Cowardice is not a word in mine or my family�s vocabulary. Throughout my almost 40 year career, I achieved the pinnacle of my sport, including seven world titles. When fighting in a professional event, after years of dedication, it is only fair and appropriate for me to ask for a reasonable purse that reflects my successful career in the ring and my unimpeachable conduct as a professional athlete. Everyone who knows me understands that I will show up to any event well prepared. This entails me having to stop teaching classes and seminars for approximately two months with great financial cost to my family and me. All I am asking is for the ADCC organization to cover these expenses. I am still confident that the Abu Dhabi organization will treat me with the respect that I have earned and will come through with this match in the name of all our loyal fans and supporters

Royler Gracie

Official response from ADCC to Royler Gracie letter:

Royler is a true champion of ADCC with an unbeaten three world titles to his name, a true legend.

ADCC goal since 1998 has been to promote Submission Fighting worldwide, having success now with Federations in more than fifty countries. A few months ago ADCC committee decided it would generate more interest in the sport to promote some veteran matches- Renzo Gracie and Mario Sperry is now confirmed, and the idea of a rematch between Royler Gracie and Eddie Bravo seemed a natural re-match.

ADCC secured sponsorship for the prize money for each fight $25000 however, it turned out Royler wanted $50000 just to appear plus the $25000 if he won, that would be $75000 for a senior grappling match! ADCC attempted to secure more sponsorship, until now with no success. Thereafter it was decided that we cannot offer more to veterans than we do to our current superfight contenders Jacarre and Braulio.

It should be noted ADCC is a non-profit making organization with the sole intent to make it a worldwide sport. However we would love to still see this fight go ahead.

Both Royler who has competed three times and thousands of other fighters who have competed in ADCC are aware there has never been any contract between ADCC and any fighter, it is a tournament attended by invitation or qualification. ADCC will continue to promote the sport of submission fighting with the aim getting the respect and support it surely deserves.

Guy Neivens
ADCC

# ? Jun 5, 2011 18:56

Bohemian Nights: Jul 14, 2006; When I wake up,
I look into the mirror
I can see a clearer, vision
I should start living today; Clapping Larry

Apparently one of the woman's winning champions used her victory speech to speak out against steroids, and called for testing. Neat. It'd be nice if the confederation would listen.

# ? Jun 5, 2011 23:27

Neurosis: Jun 10, 2003; Fallen Rib

Bohemian Nights posted:

Apparently one of the woman's winning champions used her victory speech to speak out against steroids, and called for testing. Neat. It'd be nice if the confederation would listen.

A squad of men wearing Brazilian Jiu Jitsu Centre clothing were later seen running away from a locker room in which this woman was found dead.

# ? Jun 6, 2011 10:08

fatherdog: Feb 16, 2005

quote:

While thanking people, Marcelo joked: �I want to thank my team, my friends and Steven Seagal, who taught me some of the moves I did in there�.

# ? Jun 6, 2011 16:12

mindtwist: Jun 21, 2002; Think you, 'mid all this mighty sum of things for ever speaking? That nothing of itself will come, But we must still be seeking?

I'm going to my first BJJ class this evening. I have no experience with grappling whatsoever but I've been running and working on cardio for 8 or 9 months so at least my conditioning is pretty good. I'm looking forward to it and reading this thread has been interesting

mindtwist fucked around with this message at 19:02 on Jun 6, 2011

# ? Jun 6, 2011 18:51

BlindSite: Feb 8, 2009

mindtwist posted:

I'm going to my first BJJ class this evening. I have no experience with grappling whatsoever but I've been running and working on cardio for 8 or 9 months so at least my conditioning is pretty good. I'm looking forward to it and reading this thread has been interesting

Take my advice and stretch your neck thoroughly beforehand, you might have read it in this thread, but when people first start out BJJ they complain a lot about having a sore neck the next day, it's highly possible you're not going to be used to someone pulling your head every which way. Remember to breathe as well, it's easy to hold your breath when in an uncomfortable spot.

Other than that don't be afraid or embarrassed to tap if you're getting hurt or in a really uncomfortable position and can't find a way out, no one will think less of you and have fun.

# ? Jun 7, 2011 01:44

Pooned: Dec 28, 2005; Eye contact counters everything

fatherdog posted:

That owns

# ? Jun 7, 2011 02:17

mindtwist: Jun 21, 2002; Think you, 'mid all this mighty sum of things for ever speaking? That nothing of itself will come, But we must still be seeking?

BlindSite posted:

Take my advice and stretch your neck thoroughly beforehand, you might have read it in this thread, but when people first start out BJJ they complain a lot about having a sore neck the next day, it's highly possible you're not going to be used to someone pulling your head every which way. Remember to breathe as well, it's easy to hold your breath when in an uncomfortable spot.

Other than that don't be afraid or embarrassed to tap if you're getting hurt or in a really uncomfortable position and can't find a way out, no one will think less of you and have fun.

I didn't see this in time, but I can tell my neck will be sore in the morning. I had a Swedish massage a couple days before though, so I was very loose and comfortable. And I don't have any ego when it comes to tapping, as soon as I can feel it locking in I'm ready to start over and find out what I did wrong

It was so unbelievably fun. We did a few different punch and kick combos for warmups, then paired up and did several stand-up grappling drills with each other.. I was with another newbie for these, but thankfully he had some wrestling experience so he wasnt as totally lost as I was. There are a ton of movements to copy and drill into muscle memory, it's overwhelming at the start. After that we learned how to do a couple different arm bars and a triangle from closed guard, and one way of passing guard while on top. I worked with a blue belt on these and his advice and comments were extremely helpful.

An hour and a half blew by really fast and they had open mat after that. I'm already signed up and I'll be going as often as I can.. It's $125/mo which seemed about in the normal range. My only regret is that I didn't start doing this years ago

# ? Jun 7, 2011 03:22

Xguard86: Nov 22, 2004; "You don't understand his pain. Everywhere he goes he sees women working, wearing pants, speaking in gatherings, voting. Surely they will burn in the white hot flames of Hell"

fatherdog posted:

Welp, looks like Royler's out -

A son of helio acting greedy?! Why, why I never thought I would see the day. Oh wait, this is exactly what I thought would happen.

I am assuming the prize money would be tax free, and all his travel and accommodation expenses were covered?

# ? Jun 7, 2011 17:48

widunder: May 2, 2002

Ed O'Neill recounts his first BJJ class

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tSSt5OQ4zHc

# ? Jun 8, 2011 18:56

Diquebutt: Feb 17, 2011; by Fistgrrl

nemoulette posted:

Ed O'Neill recounts his first BJJ class

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tSSt5OQ4zHc

I was disappointed when they didn't show him rolling with anyone. :smith:

# ? Jun 8, 2011 19:37

always be closing: Jul 16, 2005

Cobrinha on stalling:

http://www.graciemag.com/en/2011/06...nternational%29

quote:

PENALTIES:

�I feel minor modifications can change Jiu-Jitsu in a big way, make it more attractive. I look at other fight sports, like judo and taekwondo and even MMA � the rules are frequently revised so as to improve the spectacle, which is the matches, making it more appealing to the public to watch. That hasn�t happened in Jiu-Jitsu yet. There still isn�t much by way of penalization for stalling and certain positions, like the 50/50, which aren�t shunned because some people consider them to be innovative. Nobody does anything, the matches are motionless, they�re just waiting for time to run out. I don�t believe that�s what we want for our sport, is it? How can we promote Jiu-Jitsu and get it to grow even further with situations like that? The organizers promote the Jiu-Jitsu World Championship and we, the athletes, should promote the spectacle. But that�s not what�s happening these days, unfortunately. That�s why I feel the rules should be revised to help change the athletes� mentality, so they�ll look to have free-flowing, open matches, improving the spectacle and drawing spectators and subsequently sponsors, making Jiu-Jitsu grow. At least that�s what I hope for as a fighter, teacher, and as someone running a business in the field (of Jiu-Jitsu).�

The man is right. ban these 'innovative' stalling techniques!

# ? Jun 8, 2011 23:38

Bohemian Nights: Jul 14, 2006; When I wake up,
I look into the mirror
I can see a clearer, vision
I should start living today; Clapping Larry

Even as someone training, a lot of high level jits competition matches are just boring as hell. I can't imagine someone with no background in grappling finding it enjoyable at all.

Watching two good blue belts go at it is often more entertaining than two black belts.

Bohemian Nights fucked around with this message at 23:53 on Jun 8, 2011

# ? Jun 8, 2011 23:50

platero: Sep 11, 2001; spooky, but polite, a-hole; Pillbug

Bohemian Nights posted:

Even as someone training, a lot of high level jits competition matches are just boring as hell. I can't imagine someone with no background in grappling finding it enjoyable at all.

Watching two good blue belts go at it is often more entertaining than two black belts.

I'm speaking as an out of shape white belt(who is developing a sweet cortx guard), so take my comment with a grain of salt.

I agree with you almost completely. It seems that a lot of the excitement in BJJ matches happens when one of the parties makes a mistake. At my school, even the rare Black/Black matches are entertaining, because while they are extremely good, they occasionally make mistakes.

At the absolute highest levels, the mistakes are few and far between. When they happen, they are so small that it's hard(for me) to notice, as it can be a minor body movement or balance shift.

# ? Jun 9, 2011 00:47

Dante: Feb 8, 2003

OrangeCrush posted:

Cobrinha on stalling:

http://www.graciemag.com/en/2011/06...nternational%29

The man is right. ban these 'innovative' stalling techniques!

Haha poor guy, but I can understand him being bitter about the 50/50. Almost every single new positional innovation in jiujitsu has been called a stalling technique, then people figure it out and it's okay. There were calls to have the spider guard banned and in the early 90s they threw shoes at people who went for leg locks in competition.

Not every sport needs to be a spectator sport, it's okay to have a sport that focused on the free range of innovation and art as opposed to the spectacle.

Sure many matches are boring to watch, but in what sport isn't that true? I can't sit through a full american football or soccer match without falling asleep and I saw the entire world championship in curling. Even my hilariously selective viewing of boxing these days end up with more duds than good fights. Half the olympic sports are stuff like children doing somersaults, dudes lifting weights, rowing boats really fast or even ping-pong.

Dante fucked around with this message at 01:14 on Jun 9, 2011

# ? Jun 9, 2011 01:07

Nierbo: Dec 5, 2010; sup brah?

Dante posted:

Not every sport needs to be a spectator sport, it's okay to have a sport that focused on the free range of innovation and art as opposed to the spectacle.

Best quote ITT.
Its not like BJJ is mainstream anyway. Whats the big deal about making it casual viewer friendly?

edit: Its a money thing isn't it?

# ? Jun 9, 2011 02:25

fatherdog: Feb 16, 2005

Dante posted:

Haha poor guy, but I can understand him being bitter about the 50/50. Almost every single new positional innovation in jiujitsu has been called a stalling technique, then people figure it out and it's okay. There were calls to have the spider guard banned and in the early 90s they threw shoes at people who went for leg locks in competition.

To be fair, the 50/50 isn't necessarily a stalling technique, but the times it's been used to beat Cobrinha it's sure as hell been used as one.

# ? Jun 9, 2011 02:25

delljit: Feb 20, 2004; God I fucking love Diablo 3 gold, it even paid for this shitty title

Family and friends have no idea what I do in comp. Everything between the handshake at the start and the submission at the end is lost to them. If there was no submission they are even more confused.

# ? Jun 9, 2011 02:49

always be closing: Jul 16, 2005

Nierbo posted:

Best quote ITT.
Its not like BJJ is mainstream anyway. Whats the big deal about making it casual viewer friendly?

edit: Its a money thing isn't it?

Its all about money. The art and innovation are not going to disappear if you make people work though. Its what makes american folkstyle wrestling so intense and awesome...

# ? Jun 9, 2011 03:01

Dante: Feb 8, 2003

Nierbo posted:

Best quote ITT.
Its not like BJJ is mainstream anyway. Whats the big deal about making it casual viewer friendly?

edit: Its a money thing isn't it?

Yes, if the only people in the stands are competitors and girlfriends you don't get ticket sales which means a poor prize pool, less sponsorship money and fewer competitors. If it's not interesting to watch you don't get TV coverage, which is the holy grail of sports. People willing to pay or spend time in front of the telly would help the sport grow (MMA has no doubt helped a lot with this) because the more money in it the better the competition becomes. Right now making a living in BJJ is very hard as a competitive athlete.

fatherdog posted:

To be fair, the 50/50 isn't necessarily a stalling technique, but the times it's been used to beat Cobrinha it's sure as hell been used as one.

Yeah, that's why I said I can understand him being bitter about the 50/50. I mean really side-control and mount can be stalling techniques too, that doesn't mean they should be banned. Anything that the other guy is having a hard time getting out of and the other guy isn't using to attack is technically a stalling technique.

OrangeCrush posted:

Its all about money. The art and innovation are not going to disappear if you make people work though. Its what makes american folkstyle wrestling so intense and awesome...

Making a sport spectator friendly usually means instituting a bunch of rules, all of a sudden your sport is now a narrowly defined ruleset instead of a freeform exploration of what's possible. Just look at Judo and its 90 billion rules. This usually comes with its own set of problems, as it's a race to try to exploit the rulesystem to win and ever-increasing rules to hinder the effort in an attempt to make it "pure" again.

Dante fucked around with this message at 03:41 on Jun 9, 2011

# ? Jun 9, 2011 03:28

awkward_turtle: Oct 26, 2007; swimmer in a goon sea

delljit posted:

Family and friends have no idea what I do in comp. Everything between the handshake at the start and the submission at the end is lost to them. If there was no submission they are even more confused.

I've been congratulated by my family for a match before. I lost by cross collar choke while mounted. They thought I'd won.

# ? Jun 9, 2011 06:09

Pres: Dec 20, 2005; ever since I could remember I been poppin' mah collar

I've been training BJJ for the last 8 months and I'm having very little luck with Triangles from guard, I'm about 98kg and quite stocky with shortish leg.

I think my problem is coming from trying to bait people to give me their arms etc.

Any tips would be appreciated

# ? Jun 9, 2011 13:00

Thoguh: Nov 8, 2002; College Slice

Don't go down the darkside of trying to become "TV Friendly" BJJ, don't do it.

You'll end up with a 100 page rulebook and banning perfectly valid and safe techniques.

Keep in mind that BJJ today is a lot closer to what Judo was origionally than Judo itself is today, and a big part of that is that Judo has kept revising things.

# ? Jun 9, 2011 16:13

fawker: Feb 1, 2008; ARMBAR!

Pres posted:

I've been training BJJ for the last 8 months and I'm having very little luck with Triangles from guard, I'm about 98kg and quite stocky with shortish leg.

I think my problem is coming from trying to bait people to give me their arms etc.

Any tips would be appreciated

Eh, I also have trouble with this due to short legs and stocky build. We just have to be trickier with our setups or do other stuff I guess.

Theres a reason why stocky dudes like Jeff Monson aren't feared for their triangles.

# ? Jun 9, 2011 16:48

always be closing: Jul 16, 2005

I don't think you can compare the bastardization of judo, to making bjj less boring, imho. The judo rules are there to protect the throws, they want the sport to be about grip fighting and the kodokan throws, no diuble legs for ippon. As far as their randori rules, I don't mind I'm not watching judo for that imho.

I just don't think there's anything wrong with asking athletes to push the pace and look for a definitive finish. Show me somw good 50/50 or something to change my opinion?

# ? Jun 9, 2011 19:28

wedgie deliverer: Oct 2, 2010

Judo, for all its dumb rules, is still very fun to practice and exciting to watch.

# ? Jun 9, 2011 20:08

fawker: Feb 1, 2008; ARMBAR!

OrangeCrush posted:

Show me somw good 50/50 or something to change my opinion?

Ryan Hall vs Hermes Franca

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=curRC4pAE-w

go to about 2:35 to see something awesome.

# ? Jun 9, 2011 20:44

always be closing: Jul 16, 2005

fawker posted:

Ryan Hall vs Hermes Franca

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=curRC4pAE-w

go to about 2:35 to see something awesome.

ahh werd I remember that back take.

# ? Jun 9, 2011 21:21

Nierbo: Dec 5, 2010; sup brah?

swmmrmanshen posted:

Judo, for all its dumb rules, is still very fun to practice and exciting to watch.

Did you get a chance to watch Russian Judo?

e: Got this in the mail a few days ago:

Something to keep my judo mind active on the days off.

Nierbo fucked around with this message at 23:22 on Jun 9, 2011

# ? Jun 9, 2011 23:18

BlindSite: Feb 8, 2009

Pres posted:

I've been training BJJ for the last 8 months and I'm having very little luck with Triangles from guard, I'm about 98kg and quite stocky with shortish leg.

I think my problem is coming from trying to bait people to give me their arms etc.

Any tips would be appreciated

Instead of trying to trap their arms to the inside and throw your leg outside and around, try getting wrist control to the outside and bring your leg inside under their shoulder / armpit, it's easier to do when they posture up some people tell me this is FOMG wrong way to throw my legs up but I hit it way more often and I've got the same kind of short stocky build and I've been told it's fine by my main instructor. It's how Serra and BJ Penn throw their triangles up too I've noticed.

# ? Jun 9, 2011 23:55

Thoguh: Nov 8, 2002; College Slice

Nierbo posted:

Did you get a chance to watch Russian Judo?

e: Got this in the mail a few days ago:

Something to keep my judo mind active on the days off.

I have that one and enjoy it. But I think my two favorite Masterclass books are Harai Goshi, because Rogue is hilarious, especially with the captions, and O-Soto-Gari, because Yamashita is just so damned good. I picked up his Tenri University style gripping (which is essentially a slow motion punch to the chin) for my O-Soto from that book and as a fairly short guy for my weight class it made a world of difference to my success with the technique.

# ? Jun 10, 2011 03:45

Nierbo: Dec 5, 2010; sup brah?

Thoguh posted:

I have that one and enjoy it. But I think my two favorite Masterclass books are Harai Goshi, because Rogue is hilarious, especially with the captions, and O-Soto-Gari, because Yamashita is just so damned good. I picked up his Tenri University style gripping (which is essentially a slow motion punch to the chin) for my O-Soto from that book and as a fairly short guy for my weight class it made a world of difference to my success with the technique.

Awesome. I'm waiting on O Soto Gari now.

The aussie dollar is super strong at the moment so its awesome.

Nierbo fucked around with this message at 07:23 on Jun 10, 2011

# ? Jun 10, 2011 07:01

Neurosis: Jun 10, 2003; Fallen Rib

Pres posted:

I've been training BJJ for the last 8 months and I'm having very little luck with Triangles from guard, I'm about 98kg and quite stocky with shortish leg.

I think my problem is coming from trying to bait people to give me their arms etc.

Any tips would be appreciated

If you've got a good hip bump this is a decent set-up: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S6yoaQjv2T4

Ryan Hall's stuff on the triangle generally is really good, actually.

I used to have immense trouble with triangles until I realised I was hip escaping the wrong way to set it up. This took me 15 months of training. :downs:

# ? Jun 10, 2011 10:47

Pres: Dec 20, 2005; ever since I could remember I been poppin' mah collar

Thanks for the tips on the triangle guys I'll be sure to put them into practice when I'm next training.

I trained last night and had a roll with my instructor which pretty much consisted of me defending against all his submission attempts for 5 mins, I was dead afterwards.

Saulo Ribero's Jiu jitsu University is the best book that a White belt can ever have, without I'd still be getting subbed left right and center.

Pres fucked around with this message at 11:25 on Jun 10, 2011

# ? Jun 10, 2011 11:06

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# ? May 1, 2024 15:43

wedgie deliverer: Oct 2, 2010

Nierbo posted:

Did you get a chance to watch Russian Judo?

I did not, the low youtube resolution is bothersome to me

# ? Jun 10, 2011 21:16

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Sports Argument Stadium > The Hammer House: Stinger Splash Zone > Grappling: Grab their foot in a threatening manner, it doesn't cost you anything

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