- Brown Moses
- Feb 22, 2002
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quote:@ChangeInLibya: Misrata: AJA: Freedom fighters are in complete control of Naima, which is an area further west of Dafniyah (into Zliten)
AJA: Freedom fighters also captured 17 Gaddafi soliders in a special mission yesterday.
AJA: We can hear some explosions but it is unclear whether this is NATO or random grade bombardments by Gaddafi forces.
AJA: Freedom fighters are no longer defending, but are now attacking when it comes to Zliten. 7 died yesteday, 40 injured.
AJA: Gaddafi forces do not rely on direct contact with defend Zliten, they simply bombard from up to 20km away.
AJA: Freedom fighters sent scout groups to Zliten and these showed that Gaddafi forces are concentrated west of Tuesday Market. quote:@UKMilOps: The British Army Apaches then successfully engaged a ZSU-23-4 self-propelled anti-aircraft system on the coast near Zlitan. quote:@UKMilOps: At sea, a NATO vessel conducting surveillance operations detected high spped inflatable boats approaching Misrata. These craft have previously been used by Qadhafi's special forces in attempts to attack the harbour. The British Army Apaches aboard HMS Ocean were duly alerted and intercepted the boats, destroying two with 30mm cannon fire.
Rixos journalists are reporting that repeated requests to visit Zawiya are being ignored, even though it was promised by the Gaddafi regime yesterday.
NATO press update
quote:In the vicinity of Tripoli: 3 Anti-Aircraft Artillery Pieces, 1 Surface-To-Air Missile Launcher, 1Grenade Launcher.
In the vicinity of Waddan: 1 Ammunition Storage Facility.
In the vicinity of Misratah: 2 Rocket Launchers, 2 Anti-Aircraft Artillery Pieces, 1 Military Truck.
In the vicinity ofAl-Qaryat: 1 Ammunition Storage Facility.
In the vicinity of Brega: 1Tank, 4 Truck-Mounted Guns.
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Jun 13, 2011 11:05
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Apr 25, 2024 08:30
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- Brown Moses
- Feb 22, 2002
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Not much to report from Libya, just more repeated reports of the stuff I posted earlier. In the meantime here's a piece written by one of the journalists taken on a flying visit to Zawiya:
quote:Zawiyah's heart a ghost town after rebel advance
For a city that the Libyan government has said is under no real threat from rebels, the center of Zawiyah was eerily quiet Sunday.
The main square was all but deserted when the government brought in a small group of reporters in the late afternoon a day after rebels advanced on the city from the west.
Beyond a few police officers and soldiers, there was almost no one in sight. Just buildings bearing the bullet marks and jagged holes from explosions left over from fierce battles three months ago.
Zawiyah was the scene of heavy fighting soon after a nationwide rebellion in February against the 41-year rule of Libyan leader Muammar Gaddafi. The rebels were defeated in Zawiyah on March 10, but three months later they have returned.
On a first run through Zawiyah, government minders with a police escort did not stop or slow down. They drove around the center before heading straight back east toward Tripoli.
After a brief halt outside the city, the small convoy returned to the square and stopped briefly. Large green flags of the Gaddafi regime fluttered in the breeze and, somewhat incongruously, the square's fountain was running.
Not far east, people could be seen moving around, but the heart of Zawiyah was as quiet as the grave. Quiet enough for the journalists to make out three gun shots not far to the west. The convoy went no further west.
Two old men on a bench were quickly approached by government minders when a Reuters reporter ventured in their direction. At almost the same moment the signal was given that it was time for the group to leave the city.
Saturday, a Libyan government spokesman said there was "no serious fighting" in Zawiyah.
Sunday the same spokesman, Moussa Ibrahim, told reporters that no more than 100 rebel fighters who had attacked to the west of the city, were holed up after suffering losses and the government was trying to negotiate their surrender.
"They were not able to enter Zawiyah," he said. "Their numbers are very small."
"They were defeated after a few hours of scattered skirmishes with the army," he added.
Not long after the reporters left Zawiyah, rebel spokesman M'hamed Ezzawi said by phone there was heavy fighting 400 meters (yards) from the square.
"The brigades are using heavy weapons. They are better equipped than the revolutionaries," he said. "We have no statistics so far as to the number of martyrs but there are at least seven wounded among the revolutionaries."
As the reporters prepared to leave Sunday afternoon, a small family of three appeared outside a building. The mother held a baby in one arm and several bags in the other.
Slowly, she plodded away from the square to the south, followed by her husband, back bent and arms laden with as many of their possessions as he could carry.
Hopefully more news will be coming out of there soon.
[edit]
Found a bit more info on Sabha:
quote:A new front could be opening in an unexpected southern Libyan salient as well, as residents reported growing anti-Gadhafi sentiment in the once-quiescent city of Sabha. Young men and members of a big anti-government tribe were protesting in the streets and readying their weapons -- some brought in from rebel forces in the north --to join the fight.
The lightly populated south of the country was long believed solidly behind Gadhafi. Much of the population in Sabha, for example, was originally from Chad, Niger and Sudan, brought to Libya by Gadhafi in the 1980s. They were given government stipends and jobs in return for mercenary support of his regime.
Many of those men now have gone north to fight with Gadhafi forces, leaving behind heavily armed and restive young men who are native to the region and the anti-Gadhafi Awlad Suleiman tribe, the largest in the city and a force throughout the country.
Reports filtering belatedly out of Sabha said protesters had set up checkpoints in a main residential district, Souk al-Namla. Last Wednesday, security forces fired into the air to disperse the crowd, sparking a bloody clash. Residents said they feared Gadhafi was readying a mercenary force in the north to return to Sabha and subdue the uprising.
Awlad Suleiman tribesmen bear a special hatred toward Gadhafi. Shortly after he took power, a group of tribesmen were accused of plotting a coup, and many were executed, with others dying in prison. Brown Moses fucked around with this message at 13:00 on Jun 13, 2011
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Jun 13, 2011 12:52
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- Brown Moses
- Feb 22, 2002
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Meanwhile, in Syria
quote:Residents who fled the army assault on Jisr al-Shughur have spoken out, saying troops had begun fighting among themselves in the midst of the military operation.
"The troops are divided. Four tanks defected and they began to fire on one another," said 35-year-old Abdullah, who fled Jisr al-Shughur on Sunday and crossed the border into Turkey in order to find food.
"When they started to fire on each other, I decided to flee," the AFP news agency quoted him as saying.
quote:A fifth refugee camp for Syrians escaping the army's attacks is being set up on the Turkish border, the Guardian's Martin Chulov says in an email.
He says this is a sure sign that the Turks are expecting an even bigger influx of Syrians.
Last night Hürriyet reported that almost 6,000 more Syrian civilians were waiting to enter Turkey.
quote:Tension between Turkey and Syria over the crisis appears to mounting with reports that pro-regime activists have attacked the Turkish embassy in Damascus.
The Jerusalem Post reports:
quote:An estimated 2,000 protesters attacked the Turkish embassy in Damascus on Monday after Turkey said it would provide refuge to Syrians fleeing Assad's forces, according to a report by Turkish newspaper Today's Zaman. The crowd was dispersed by embassy security and Syrian forces.
Turkey has recently taken a tougher stance on Syria's Assad. Newly re-elected Turkish president Recep Tayyip Erdogan called the Syrian crackdown on protesters "inhumane", and described it as barbaric.
quote:The leading Syrian opposition dissident Ammar Abdulhamid has this counterblast to the regime's accounts of events in Jisr al-Shughour. He says what is going on is a "major military operation against a mostly unarmed population meant to sow terror in their midst, and throughout the country. It's basically a cold-blooded massacre perpetrated using tanks and helicopters".
He said there was no evidence for a large-scale armed rebellion in the town.
quote:No one is denying the reality of defections in Jisr al-Shughour, and that some clashes seem to have taken place between defectors and loyalists, or that some defectors might have chosen to remain behind to defend the local population (as happened in Deraa), but we really need to put this matter in its proper scale.
In order to kill 120 security officers supported with tanks and armoured cars, we need an organised well-armed force of at least 500-1,000 men; where is this mysterious force now?
How come it was defeated after only one day of active combat? Where are the casualties? Why have the activists not been able to catch more than a couple of defectors on video encouraging their colleague to join them?
If these officers wanted to encourage further defections, and get the attention of the international community, they wouldn't they have taken pains to strut their relatively large size on camera? And where are those "official" videos showing the army conducting actual military operations against those armed gangs and those treasonous defectors? Where are the videos of charred dead bodies and embattled captives? After twelve weeks of battling terrorists, as the regime puts it, you'd expect to see numerous such videos instead of short clips of funerals of army officers, weapon caches laid out neatly on the ground, and a few hapless individuals "welcoming" the troops and speaking vaguely of the "horrors" they have seen before the army showed up?
Compare these choice clips to the thousands of videos produced by activists who show actual killings by army troops, actual terror campaigns, actual dead bodies of protesters, actual painful testimonies, and actual funerals that easily turn into new protests and new occasions for violence on part of the authorities, and you'll get a clearer idea, if you haven't by now, of those who are manufacturing news and those who are actually reporting them, and of the nature of the events still developing on the grounds.
quote:All eyes are on Turkey's next move on Syria as Syrian refugees chant in support of newly-re-elected prime minister Tayyip Erdogan, Reuters reports.
As the number of refugees climbs to almost 7,000, analysts predicted that Ankara's cosy relationship with Damascus would change.
Semih Idiz, a foreign policy expert for Milliyet daily, said:
quote:The whole policy of warming up to Syria has collapsed. After the elections I expect Turkey to re-evaluate its Middle East policy. It has not brought the results expected.
The Syrian crisis has the potential to make ties between Ankara and Tehran frostier. If Iran or [Lebanon's Shia group] Hezbollah get involved in Syrian affairs Turkey will have to tell foreign powers to stay out.
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Jun 13, 2011 13:03
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- Young Freud
- Nov 26, 2006
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Brown Moses posted:
Not much to report from Libya, just more repeated reports of the stuff I posted earlier. In the meantime here's a piece written by one of the journalists taken on a flying visit to Zawiya:
Man, what I would give to see one of these Qaddafi tours suddenly get caught up in a rebel advance. I want see a regime minder poo poo himself on camera.
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Jun 13, 2011 14:19
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- Brown Moses
- Feb 22, 2002
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It's been strangely quiet today, especially considering there's meant to be all sorts of fighting going on all over Libya. Even when there wasn't this supposed level of conflict there was still more coming out of Libya than what I'm seeing today. All the news I'm seeing just seems to be the same stuff from hours ago being rehashed, and a report of the German Government recognising the NTC as Libya only legitimate representitives.
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Jun 13, 2011 14:30
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- Brown Moses
- Feb 22, 2002
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An update from Reuters:
quote:BENGHAZI, Libya, June 13 (Reuters) - Germany recognised Libya's rebel council as the legitimate representative of the Libyan people on Monday, lending heavyweight support to the leaders poised to run the country if Muammar Gaddafi falls.
The recognition, voiced by Foreign Minister Guido Westerwelle on a visit to the rebel stronghold of Benghazi, is significant because Germany has been reluctant to be drawn into the Libyan conflict and opted out of NATO military action.
"We share the same goal -- Libya without Gaddafi," Westerwelle told a news conference in Benghazi after meeting members of the rebel National Transitional Council, seen by many as a government-in-waiting.
"The national council is the legitimate representative of the Libyan people," Westerwelle said, to applause from Libyans who were listening to him speak.
A senior rebel official welcomed the German decision to join other states, including France, Italy, Qatar and the United Arab Emirates, in regonising the rebel council.
"It is a very big step and we appreciate it," said Abdel Hafiz Gogha, the NTC's vice chairman.
German opposition politicians, media commentators and foreign policy experts had earlier this year castigated the government for not joining NATO's campaign in Libya, saying Germany was failing to live up to its international obligations.
ZAWIYAH REBELS FALL SILENT
Fighting flared at the weekend in the town of Zawiyah, 50 km (30 miles) west of the Libyan capital, clashes the rebel leadership said were a sign that the momentum in the four-month-old conflict was shifting their way.
But on Monday, a rebel spokesman in Zawiyah who had been giving accounts of the fighting was no longer answering his telephone. The main highway west from Tripoli, which had been closed because of the fighting, now appeared to have re-opened.
A group of foreign journalists who travelled with an official escort from Tripoli to neighbouring Tunisia on Monday morning passed along the main highway, instead of taking a detour near Zawiyah as happened at the weekend.
Western governments say they believe it is only a matter of time before Gaddafi's 41-year rule comes to an end under the weight of NATO military intervention, sanctions and defections from within his own entourage.
But Gaddafi has refused to quit, and he has proved in the past to be a wily survivor. Libyan television showed him on Sunday evening playing a game of chess with the visiting president of the international chess federation.
REBEL LOSSES
His armed forces have demonstrated in the past few days that they are not going to buckle.
Rebels late on Sunday said they were repulsed by Gaddafi's forces in a battle to retake the eastern oil town of Brega, despite having NATO air support.
The rebels said they had lost at least four killed in fighting between Brega and Ajdabiyah. At least 65 fighters were wounded, doctors at the hospital in Benghazi said.
"We attacked them first but they attacked us back. We tried to get to Brega but that was difficult," Haithan Elgwei, a rebel fighter said after returning from the front with the wounded.
In Misrata, the biggest rebel strong-hold in western Libya, doctors said six rebel fighters were killed on Sunday when they tried to push forward beyond their lines into farmland between Misrata and the neighbouring town of Zlitan.
Fighters hoisted the rebel flag on the outskirts of Zlitan.
"There's a lot of activity inside," said their commander, referring to the level of support in Zlitan for the uprising against Gaddafi.
But in deeply tribal Libya, an advance by Misrata rebels on a neighbouring town could be perceived by its residents as an act of aggression, bringing the war and its inevitable destruction to their doorstep.
Rebels say they are sensitive to the risk.
"We are here to make sure Zlitan is ready to fight," said a senior rebel, who gave his name as Mohammed.
"We want the Zlitan people to fight, so that there is no civil conflict between us." (Additional reporting by Hamid Ould Ahmed in Algiers, Mussab Al-Khairalla and Nick Carey in Tripoli, Matt Robinson in Misrata and Evan Kuehnen in Frankfurt; Writing by Christian Lowe; Editing by Peter Millership)
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Jun 13, 2011 15:10
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- Brown Moses
- Feb 22, 2002
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News of another defection:
quote:APNewsBreak: Another Gadhafi insider defects from Libya
Another member of Libyan dictator Moammar Gadhafi’s regime has defected and fled the country, two Libyan analysts in London said Monday, as fighting continued between government troops and rebel forces.
Sassi Garada, one of the first men to join Gadhafi when he took power more than 40 years ago, left Libya through Tunisia, according to Noman Benotman, a Libyan analyst in London who was in contact with his friends and family. Guma el-Gamaty, U.K. organizer for Libya’s interim council, also confirmed the defection.
There were initial reports that Garada fled to Britain, where he has several family members, but Benotman said Garada was in Switzerland.
British officials, who spoke on condition of anonymity to discuss immigration and security matters, said they could not confirm whether Garada was in the U.K. Swiss Foreign ministry spokeswoman Carole Waelti told AP the government was “not aware of the possible presence of Mr. Garada in Switzerland.”
A longtime supporter of Gadhafi, Garada reportedly passed up several military promotions over the years to stay out of the limelight and serve Gadhafi, according to Benotman, who works as an analyst for the London-based Quilliam Foundation.
Garada is also from Libya’s Berber minority, which has often fought with the Arab majority to have their language and customs protected. Many of the Berbers also occupy the Western mountains of Libya, where Garada had been in charge of trying to neutralize tensions, el-Gamaty said.
It is not known why Garada defected or when, but he is one in a growing list of senior officials who have fled the country, suggesting Gadhafi may be losing his grip on power.
Last month, Shukri Ghanem, the Libyan oil minister and head of the National Oil Co., crossed into neighboring Tunisia.
Others who have defected include Foreign Minister Moussa Koussa, one of Gadhafi’s earliest supporters; Interior Minister Abdel-Fatah Younes; Justice Minister Mustafa Abdul-Jalil, and Ali Abdessalam Treki, a former U.N. General Assembly president. A number of ambassadors and other diplomats also have resigned.
Still no news from anywhere today, just yesterdays news being repeated.
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Jun 13, 2011 18:03
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- Bisse
- Jun 26, 2005
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So, i'm trying to figure out what the current situation, in short, is in each country at the moment. Tell me if i've got any of this wrong?
Egypt
Dictator toppled and will be tried for murder, military currently in power until next election. People still doing smaller demonstrations and various factions trying to gain power and get elected, mostly through small demonstrations and riots.
Libya
Full on civil war between freedom fighters and a crazed murderous dictator, NATO backing rebel side, rebels seem likely to come out winning.
Yemen
Various factions struggling for stability and/or power as the current dictator refuses to leave power despite a risk of civil war. Situation calmed down after dictator got seriously hurt in a shelling. War averted, for now...?
Syria
Regime slaughtering their own people in response to demonstrations, it's an absolute massacre and people are fleeing the country.
Anything I missed? Anyone care to sum up other countries?
Bisse fucked around with this message at 18:40 on Jun 13, 2011
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Jun 13, 2011 18:38
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- Namarrgon
- Dec 23, 2008
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Congratulations on not getting fit in 2011!
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Bisse posted:
Yemen
Various factions struggling for stability and/or power as the current dictator refuses to leave power despite a risk of civil war. Situation calmed down after dictator got seriously hurt in a shelling. War averted, for now...?
I would call it; president de facto deposed, nobody knows what's going to happen.
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Jun 13, 2011 18:59
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- Xandu
- Feb 19, 2006
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It's hard to be humble when you're as great as I am.
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His sons/nephews are still running the government in Yemen while he's recuperating in Saudi Arabia.
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Jun 13, 2011 19:01
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- Namarrgon
- Dec 23, 2008
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Congratulations on not getting fit in 2011!
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What's going on in Tunisia now anyway?
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Jun 13, 2011 19:02
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- Xandu
- Feb 19, 2006
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It's hard to be humble when you're as great as I am.
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No one knows. I'm not being glib, there's just been no good english (or even French from what I could find) language articles on the subject recently. The Islamist parties (an-Nahda especially) are getting pretty popular, they will be delaying the elections until October to allow more time to prepare. Everything is pretty peaceful at the moment.
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Jun 13, 2011 19:05
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- Lawman 0
- Aug 17, 2010
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Xandu posted:
No one knows. I'm not being glib, there's just been no good english (or even French from what I could find) language articles on the subject recently. The Islamist parties (an-Nahda especially) are getting pretty popular, they will be delaying the elections until October to allow more time to prepare. Everything is pretty peaceful at the moment.
They also seem to be making GBS threads their pants about how not to get invade by the crazed dictator next door and how too help topple him as soon as possible.
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Jun 13, 2011 19:12
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- pylb
- Sep 22, 2010
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"The superfluous, a very necessary thing"
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Here's a (probably biased) article on Tunisia in french, about a month old : http://setrouver.wordpress.com/2011/05/17/il-y-a-quelquechose-de-pourri-dans-lair/
According to it, the government and police are a little too keen on maintaining the calm.
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Jun 13, 2011 19:20
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- thiswayliesmadness
- Dec 3, 2009
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I hope to see you next time, and take care all
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Has there been any more word on the ICC finishing their warrant for Ghadaffi? It seems for the last couple weeks, they keep saying they're just working out the final bits and it'll be effective any day now.
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Jun 13, 2011 19:44
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- Lascivious Sloth
- Apr 26, 2008
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by sebmojo
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Bisse posted:
So, i'm trying to figure out what the current situation, in short, is in each country at the moment. Tell me if i've got any of this wrong?
Egypt
Dictator toppled and will be tried for murder, military currently in power until next election. People still doing smaller demonstrations and various factions trying to gain power and get elected, mostly through small demonstrations and riots.
Libya
Full on civil war between freedom fighters and a crazed murderous dictator, NATO backing rebel side, rebels seem likely to come out winning.
Yemen
Various factions struggling for stability and/or power as the current dictator refuses to leave power despite a risk of civil war. Situation calmed down after dictator got seriously hurt in a shelling. War averted, for now...?
Syria
Regime slaughtering their own people in response to demonstrations, it's an absolute massacre and people are fleeing the country.
Anything I missed? Anyone care to sum up other countries?
Libya isn't really civil war, it's civilians taking up arms against the military, with help from defectors and NATO.
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Jun 13, 2011 23:33
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- Chortles
- Dec 29, 2008
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A longer apology, of still questionable sincerity, but:quote: I betrayed the trust of a great many people, the friendship that was honestly and openly offered to me, and played with the emotions of others unfairly. I have distracted the world’s attention from important issues of real people in real places. I have potentially compromised the safety of real people. I have helped lend credence to the lies of the regimes. I am sorry.
I have hurt people with whom I share a side and a struggle. That matters. I have hurt causes I believe in sincerely. That is wrong. quote:It started innocently enough without any intention whatsoever of creating a massive hoax or duping the world. Ever since I was a child, I’ve wanted to write fiction but, when my first attempts met with universal rejection, I took a more serious look at my own work and I realized that I could not write conversation in a natural way nor could I convincingly write characters who weren’t me. I tried to get better and did various exercises (such as simply copying overheard conversations). Eventually, I would set up a number of profiles on dating sites with identities that were not my own as ways of interacting with real people in conversation but with a different personality than my own.
I was also very involved in issues surrounding the Palestine and Iraq struggles. Ever since my childhood I had felt very connected to the cultures and peoples of the Middle East. It’s something that I came by naturally. My mother had taught English in Turkey before I was born and my father had been involved with Middle East refugee issues when they met. They are both people whom I admire immensely and have continued to do many wonderful works that I can only aspire to.
I’m also an argumentative sort and a bit of a nerd. I was involved with numerous online science-fiction/alternate-history discussion lists and, as a part of that process, I saw lots of incredibly ignorant and stupid positions repeated on the Middle East. I noticed that when I, a person with a distinctly Anglo name, made comments on the Middle East, the facts I might present were ignored and I found myself accused of hating America, Jews, etc. I wondered idly whether the same ideas presented by someone with a distinctly Arab and female identity would have the same reaction. 
I wonder if it's possible to check over the Internet whether this was written for him by someone else because he can't bring himself to actually write remorsefully about this and needed someone else to fake that for him too?
(For what it's worth, his post about the naksa anniversary shootings were actually a big yellow flag for me in the sense of going, "HUH? She's not blaming the regime and is claiming that it's all completely real?" Admittedly I didn't think very hard about it past that, though.)
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Jun 14, 2011 03:45
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- Xandu
- Feb 19, 2006
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It's hard to be humble when you're as great as I am.
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Off-topic, but apparently another lesbian blogger came out as a man, which led to this hilarious line in the Washington Post.
quote:
In the guise of Paula Brooks, Graber corresponded online with Tom MacMaster, thinking he was writing to Amina Arraf. Amina often flirted with Brooks, neither of the men realizing the other was pretending to be a lesbian.
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Jun 14, 2011 03:48
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- AllanGordon
- Jan 26, 2010
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by Shine
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Xandu posted:
Off-topic, but apparently another lesbian blogger came out as a man, which led to this hilarious line in the Washington Post.
Love really can bloom on the battlefield.
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Jun 14, 2011 03:50
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- Cable Guy
- Jul 18, 2005
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I don't expect any trouble, but we'll be handing these out later...
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Slippery Tilde
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Xandu posted:
Off-topic, but apparently another lesbian blogger came out as a man, which led to this hilarious line in the Washington Post.
quote:In the guise of Paula Brooks, Graber corresponded online with Tom MacMaster, thinking he was writing to Amina Arraf. Amina often flirted with Brooks, neither of the men realizing the other was pretending to be a lesbian. Is this real? I ask because of This may not be just a comic line as seen in this extract from the Amina Apology Chortles posted before:
Tom MacMaster posted:I want to apologize clearly and explicitly and personally to Jelena Lecic, Paula Brooks, Sandra Bagaria and Scott Palter. Each of them, in very different ways, was hurt deeply by me and each of them will get a personal apology from me. Each of them is more than entitled to hit me. Has Brooks been exposed as well? I wonder if they ever got into a "Men are pigs" discussion.
Edited because hurrrr.... google
Cable Guy fucked around with this message at 08:00 on Jun 14, 2011
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Jun 14, 2011 07:53
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- Brown Moses
- Feb 22, 2002
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Here's some updates from Libya:
Brega
quote:24 Libya rebels killed in fierce fighting in Port Brega
Clashes near the Libyan city of Port Brega left two dozen antigovernment fighters dead Monday in some of the fiercest battles in weeks along the front dividing rebels in the east and Moammar Kadafi’s forces in the west.
The fighting also left 28 rebels wounded, said Dr. Suleiman Refadi, a surgeon at the general hospital in opposition-held Ajdabiya.
The front line between rebel and regime forces lies about halfway between Ajdabiya and Port Brega, the latter an important oil port where thousands of pro-Kadafi troops are said to be dug in.
The opposition has won territory in several pockets in the west, notably the port city of Misurata, just 120 miles east of Tripoli, the capital. But rebels trying to move on from Misurata have also suffered heavy losses in recent days. Some news agency reports Monday suggested Misurata-based rebels were advancing on the government-controlled town of Zlitan, the next objective on the road to Tripoli.
Government and rebel forces have also fought a back-and-forth battle for control of the so-called Berber highlands, which stretch to the Tunisian border southwest of Tripoli, Libya’s capital.
The front in eastern Libya has remained mostly stable for almost three months despite occasional rebel thrusts toward the town and intense aerial bombardments by NATO. British and French attack helicopters have also struck loyalist positions in and around Port Brega in recent weeks.
Rebel commanders have been saying for weeks that an offensive was planned to take Port Brega and push farther west along the coast.
But regime troops have managed to hold out in Port Brega and effectively shell rebel positions to the east. Kadafi’s forces are dug in amid residential and commercial structures, rebel commanders say.
The 4-month-old unrest in Libya has left the North African nation deeply divided and caused thousands of deaths as insurgents fight to oust Kadafi after his more than 40-year rule. Rebels control most of eastern Libya from their stronghold in Benghazi, while Kadafi still holds sway in most of the more heavily populated west, including Tripoli. Fighting has been scattered across various fronts.
Last week, renewed fighting erupted near Zawiya, a major refinery town west of Tripoli. The government says the rebels were routed and the situation is now calm.
The last few days have seen a relative lull in the bombardment of Tripoli, which last week was pounded by aircraft from the North Atlantic Treaty Organization.
Rebel officials said Monday that another longtime Kadafi confidant, Sassi Garada, had abandoned the regime and fled to Europe. Garada had been in charge of security in the Berber highlands, said Guma Gamaty, a British-based representative of the opposition’s interim ruling council. There was no independent confirmation of Garada’s status.
Many former Kadafi aides — including the oil minister and other Cabinet members, diplomats and generals — have defected or abandoned the beleaguered regime.
Also Monday, German Foreign Minister Guido Westerwelle reportedly said during a visit that the opposition government based in Benghazi was the “legitimate representative of the Libyan people.”
Misrata
quote:Libyan rebels edge westwards out of Misrata
Libyan rebels edged slowly beyond their western stronghold of Misrata towards Tripoli, but faced supply shortages after shelling from Muammar Gaddafi forces hit a key refinery in the city.
A Reuters photographer in Misrata joined rebel units as they pushed their front several kilometres (miles) west to the outskirts of Zlitan, a neighbouring town controlled by Gaddafi’s forces.
Any fighting over Zlitan would bring the rebellion closer to the capital Tripoli, the Libyan leader’s stronghold which lies 200 km (124 miles) west of Misrata.
A doctor in a field hospital to the west of Libya’s third largest city said two rebels had been killed and a dozen wounded after the two sides traded heavy artillery fire.
Rebels from Misrata say tribal sensitivities prevent them from attacking Zlitan, and they are instead waiting for local inhabitants to rise up.
Late on Monday, six rockets hit generators at the refinery near Misrata port leaving them heavily damaged. An engineer on site said it was unclear how long it would take to repair.
The fighting east of Tripoli came during a lull in NATO bombardment of the Libyan capital. State television reported the alliance had bombarded targets in Al Jufrah in the centre of the country.
Zintan
quote:
A rebel spokesman in Zintan, in the rebel-held Western Mountains range southwest of Tripoli, said the town had been quiet after being subjected to its heaviest bombardment by pro-Gaddafi forces in several weeks on Sunday.
“Today has been the quietest day for Zintan in three months, although we started to hear in the evening loud blasts coming from the east.” he said. “We buried (on Monday) the 10 martyrs who were killed after Sunday’s clashes”.
Zawiyah
quote:Fighting flared at the weekend in the town of Zawiyah, 50 km (30 miles) west of the capital — clashes the rebel leadership said were a sign that the momentum in the four-month-old conflict was shifting their way.
But on Monday, a rebel spokesman in Zawiyah who had been giving accounts of the fighting was no longer reachable by telephone. The main highway west from Tripoli, which had been closed because of the fighting, appeared to have re-opened.
Gaddafi has said the rebels are criminals and al Qaeda militants. He has described the NATO military intervention as an act of colonial aggression aimed at grabbing Libya’s oil.
Western governments say they believe it is only a matter of time before Gaddafi’s 41-year rule ends under the weight of NATO military intervention, sanctions and defections.
NATO member Germany became the latest country to recognise the rebel council based in the second city of Benghazi as the legitimate representative of the Libyan people, giving heavyweight support to leaders poised to run the country if Gaddafi falls.
France, Qatar, Italy and the United Arab Emirates have already recognised the Transitional National Council.
“We share the same goal — Libya without Gaddafi,” German Foreign Minister Guido Westerwelle said in Benghazi.
In the latest diplomatic shuffling to add pressure on Gaddafi, U.S. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton urged African leaders to abandon him.
Gaddafi has styled himself the African “king of kings” and over the years won support from many African states in exchange for financial help and generous gifts. Most countries on the continent have been lukewarm towards the rebels.
“Your words and your actions could make the difference… (in ending this situation) …and allowing the people of Libya to get to work writing a constitution and rebuilding their country,” Clinton said in a speech to the African Union in the Ethiopian capital Addis Ababa.
Sounds like the rebel attack on Zawiya failed. I expect part of the problem is the total lack of supply lines to Zawiya from Nafusa, something which isn't a problem on the Zliten attck.
Journalists in Tripoli are reporting fresh bombing in Tripoli this morning.
Some other news:
quote:The US House of Representatives has voted to prohibit the use of funds for operations in Libya.
“This is going to be a bit of a shock for Obama administration as the vote was so overwhelmingly against allowing him to use the fund in Libya,” Al Jazeera correspondent Patty Culhane, reporting from New Hampshire, said.
Culhane said this is not a done deal. House of Representatives will need to take one more vote to make it official to go to the Senate, where Democrats have the majority.
[edit]
News from Nafusa via CNN:
quote:As Washington urged African countries to reject the government of Libyan leader Moammar Gadhafi, rebels reported progress Monday against government forces in western mountain cities.
After a siege of nearly two months, rebels have freed the city of Al-Rayyana, northeast of Zintan, said Talha Al-Jiwali, a rebel fighter. Nine rebels were killed, and 35 were wounded, he said.
Al-Jiwali said forces entering Al-Rayyana found that more than 20 residents had been killed, a number of the women had been raped, and the town’s electricity and water had been cut.
In nearby Zawiet al-Baqool, just east of Zintan, 500 to 600 government forces retained control, but the fighting was ongoing, he said.
Al-Jiwali added that nearly 100 members of Gadhafi’s forces were killed in the two cities and that rebels confiscated their vehicles and arms. Brown Moses fucked around with this message at 09:17 on Jun 14, 2011
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Jun 14, 2011 08:51
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- Brown Moses
- Feb 22, 2002
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June 14th Live Blogs
LibyaFeb17.com
Feb17.info
Syria AJE
Yemen AJE
Libya AJE
Guardian
Guardian round up:
quote:Syria
As Syrian troops move closer to the Turkish border events in and around the besieged town of Jisr al-Shughour remain hotly disputed.
Turkey is setting up a fifth refugee camp in its southern border towns, but with the number of Syrians who have crossed the boundary topping 7,000, these camps may not be sufficient to deal with the fast-increasing number of people in need of help, writes Martin Chulov.
One Jisr refugee, Abu Ali, said:
quote:There are 7,000 people across the border, more and more women and children are coming towards the barbed wires. Jisr is finished, it is razed.
Ammar Abdulhamid, a leading Syrian opposition dissident, says the troops are trying to prevent refugees fleeing to Turkey.
He disputes reports of a large scale army mutiny in the town.
quote: The truth is simple: there were some defections, and there was a brief clash between the few defectors and the army of loyalists, one that proved more deadly to the defectors than to the loyalists. But the scale of what happened was nowhere near a mutiny, nor was it a battle against defectors or gangs, but a terror campaign against an unarmed civilian population whose basic demands for freedom and justice remain an anathema to the Assads and their loyalists.
Joshua Landis, director of Middle East studies at the University of Oklahoma, agrees that reports of a wide-spread mutiny have been exaggerated. But Landis, who is more sympathetic to the regime than most Syria-watchers, doesn't buy the regime's version of events either.
quote:The Syrian army has exaggerated the number of its dead in order to justify ever harsher repression of the inhabitants of Jisr and Idlib province. The governent is thrashing about in a failed effort to stop the demonstrations from spreading.
Reem Haddad
As we noted yesterday Reem Hadaad, the Syrian government spokeswoman ridiculed for likening refugees fleeing to Turkey to a visitings to their mum's house, has been sacked.
Landis sees her dismissal as fall out from Syria's failed propaganda campaign.
quote:The West is entirely convinced that "the people" stand with the opposition and favour revolution. Government attempts to explain to Western authorities that they stand with the people and are serving anything other than bloody-mindedness with the repression of the revolt, have been such a failure that Reem Haddad, the head of the government's media effort has been fired.
Syria's sectarian tensions in Jisr al-Shughour and beyond are mapped out very clearly, by the New York Times Beirut bureau chief Anthony Shadid.
quote: Jisr al-Shoughour, where the government used tanks and helicopters to crush what it called "armed terrorist gangs," sits in a landscape as complicated as anywhere in Syria. It is a Sunni town with an Alawite town less than a mile to the south, interspersed with Christian and more Sunni settlements...
Syrian officials have suggested that militant Islamists have manipulated popular grievances and warned that the government's collapse would endanger the relative security of Christians and other minorities there. Opposition activists have played down sectarian divisions, which they describe as a government ploy to sustain its four decades of rule. If anything, they say, the government has stoked tensions in a cynical bid to divide and rule.
The Arab League has started to speak out about Syria, to the fury of Damascus.
The league's Egyptian secretary general Amr Moussa said:
quote: Though their views differ, Arab states are all worried, angry and actively monitoring the current crisis in Syria. What we are hearing and monitoring, about many victims falling, indicates great tumult in Syria ... The situation in Syria should not be left in this state.
Continuation of the status quo could lead to what may not be desired ... for Syria.
Syria's representative to the league, Youssef Ahmadm described Moussa's comments as "unbalanced" and politically motivated.
quote: Days before leaving his post Moussa calls for a kind of foreign intervention in the Syrian affairs, when the Libyan blood, shed by NATO air strikes as a result for a Security Council resolution, based, regrettably on an Arab demand in which Moussa's efforts immensely contributed, isn't dry yet.
Syrian troops have advanced on a second protest town in the north of the country, Reuters reports.
quote:Troops pushed towards the northern town of Maarat al-Numaan on the Damascus-Aleppo highway after rounding up hundreds of people in a sweep through villages near Jisr al-Shughour, fleeing residents said.
Late on Monday witnesses said troops and armoured vehicles had reached the village of Ahtam, 14 km (nine miles) from Maarat al-Numaan where there have been large protests against President Bashar al-Assad's rule.
Libya
The head of the Royal Navy has warned that the fleet will not be able to continue the current scale of operations around Libya beyond the summer unless ministers take tough decisions about what they want to prioritise.
In a briefing at Admiralty House, Sir Mark Stanhope said:
quote:How long can we go on as we are in Libya? Certainly – in terms of Nato's current time limit that has been extended to 90 days – we are comfortable with that. Beyond that we might have to request the government to make some challenging decisions about priorities.
Gaddafi's regime in Libya has moved Grad rockets and munitions to a World Heritage Site, to avoid Nato bombing, the Times reports (Paywall).
quote:"We received information yesterday that Gaddafi's forces are hiding inside Leptis Magna," said Abu Mohammad, the overall commander of rebel forces for the nearby town of Zlitan.
Tunisia
The trial in absentia of former Tunisian president Zine al-Abidine Ben Ali, who fled to Saudi Arabia in January, will begin next week. Tunisia's interim prime minister, Beji Caid-Essebsi, said: "Ben Ali's trial will start on 20 June. He will be tried in a military and in a civilian court."
Jordan
The Jordanian government has denied reports that demonstrators attacked King Abdullah's motorcade. According to eyewitness accounts the royal convoy was hit twice by stones and bottles during a visit to the southern town of Tafila, scene of recent protests. But a government spokesman claimed the reports were "baseless".
Bahrain
Bahrain has defied international criticism by continuing the military trial of dozens of medical personnel accused of trying to topple the government. Twenty doctors pleaded not guilty on Monday to charges ranging from stealing medicines to stockpiling weapons during the unprecedented unrest that erupted in February. The defendants looked healthier and better dressed than during a previous court appearance, but several of them wept as they told the judge they had been tortured and forced to sign false confessions, a relative told the Guardian.
Egypt
Israel has denied that Ilan Grapel, a dual US and Israeli citizen arrested in Egypt on suspicion of plotting to undermine the revolution, is a spy. "This is a student, perhaps a little strange or a little careless. He has no connection to any intelligence apparatus, not in Israel, not in the U.S. and not on Mars," Israeli Foreign Minister Avigdor Lieberman said on Army Radio.
His mother, Irene Grapel, said he was spending the summer as an intern at a legal aid group.
Gaza
The unemployment rate in Gaza is among the highest in the world, a new UN report has warned, five years after Israel imposed a blockade on Gaza. The UN Relief and Works Agency for Palestine Refugees found that by the second half of 2010, real wages had fallen 34.5% since the first half of 2006, when sanctions were imposed by Israel after Hamas, an Islamist group that now rules the Gaza Strip, won a Palestinian legislative election.[/quote]
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Jun 14, 2011 10:32
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- Brown Moses
- Feb 22, 2002
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There's reliable reports that at least 20 NATO fighter bombers have taken off from Italy today and are heading to Libya. There's already reports of bombing near Zliten and planes over Tripoli.
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Jun 14, 2011 11:36
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- Brown Moses
- Feb 22, 2002
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Kikla and Rayayna have been confirmed by journalists on the ground as being captured from Gaddafi forces, both in the Nafusa region.
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Jun 14, 2011 12:56
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- Brown Moses
- Feb 22, 2002
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Guardian afternoon update:
quote:• Syria: There are reports of a scorched earth policy by Syrian troops around Jisr al-Shugour, with the military burning land and killing cattle in the area. Troops have also advanced on a second protesting town, Maarat al-Numaan. Reports say Turkey is reconsidering its softly-softly approach towards Syria. The Arab League's general secretary, Amr Moussa, said the situation in Syria "should not be left in this state".
• Yemen: The condition of the president, Ali Abdullah Saleh is "tragic", according to a Yemeni official; he is badly burned and has a throat problem. Saleh is in Saudi Arabia, where he received treatment after a rocket attack. Saba, the Yemeni state news agency, said Saleh's health was improving and he would return home soon. There were also reports of a mass anti-government rally in Sana'a, the capital.
• Libya: Muammar Gaddafi's forces have pulled out of Kikla; rebels are now in control. In Tripoli, residents are becoming more willing to criticise the Libyan leader, although an uprising there is still unlikely. Nato has struck the area around Gaddafi's compound again , as well as the town of al-Jufreh. Gaddafi's forces struck a refinery in Misrata, damaging rebel fuel supply lines. Gaddafi's troops also fired into neighbouring Tunisia.
quote:Paul Owen has just been speaking to Xan Rice in Tripoli, who has found residents of the Libyan capital becoming more willing to criticise Muammar Gaddafi.
quote:The vast majority of [people he has spoken to] if they're willing to talk are anti-Gaddafi and say he's finished and that it's time for him to go. Just the fact that they're willing to talk, even if in the back of their shop out of earshot of everyone else, seems to be a change because a few months ago people were too scared even to do that.
But he said an uprising in Tripoli still seemed unlikely. "The police have still got a pretty tight grip on the city. And people I've talked to, the attitude seems to be more, you know, we're waiting for the end, we know it's going to come but we're waiting. And in particular they're waiting for one of the rebel forces to the south, the west or the east perhaps to advance on Tripoli and get to the gates of Tripoli, in which case the revolt will come from within. But it seems unlikely that there's going to be an uprising here imminently."
quote:The Associated Press news agency is reporting that a Nato air strike has again targeted the area near Muammar Gaddafi's compound in Tripoli.
quote: A column of grey smoke could be seen rising from the area around Gaddafi's Bab al-Aziziya compound before dawn Tuesday. The explosion from the early morning strike could be felt at a hotel where journalists stay in the capital.
Nato Summary for June 13
quote:13 JUNE:
In the vicinity of Tripoli: 1 Surface-To-Air Missile Launcher and Detection Radar.
In the vicinity of Waddan: 1 Ammunition Storage Facility.
In the vicinity of Misratah: 1 Command & Control Facility, 1 Towed Artillery Piece, 3 truck-Mounted Guns, 2 Military Trucks, 1 Shelter.
In the vicinity of Zlitan: 1 Armoured Vehicle Storage Facility.
In the vicinity of Sirte: 1 Anti-Aircraft Artillery Piece.
Not much more news on the large number of NATO aircraft that were heading to Libya, the person who reported also said a large number of military helicopters were flying around the base they left from yesterday, not sure what that could indicate.
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Jun 14, 2011 13:52
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- Brown Moses
- Feb 22, 2002
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Some news from Israel about Syria, telling us what we all probably guessed already:
quote:Last month thousands of pro-Palestinian activists rushed into the Golan Heights from Syria during the Nakba protests.
Syria was accused of orchestrating the incident to detract attention from domestic political unrest.
Now the a pro-Israel group says it has been passed proof that this was the case.
Just Journalism, a London-based group set up to tackle what it is says is the media's skewed portrayal of Israel, has published leaked documents showing that regime bussed protesters to the Golan Heights, and gave them permission to cross the ceasefire line.
It quotes a memo that it purports to come from Khalil Mash-Hadiay mayor of the al-Quanitera province. It says:
quote: Permission is hereby granted allowing approaching crowds to cross the ceasefire line [with Israel] towards the occupied Majdal-Shamms, and to further allow them to engage physically with each other in front of United Nations agents and offices. Furthermore, there is no objection if a few shots are fired in the air.
Captain Samer Shahin from the military intelligence division is hereby appointed to the leadership of the group assigned to break in and infiltrate deep into the occupied Syrian Golan Heights with a specified pathway to avoid land mines.
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Jun 14, 2011 15:30
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- Brown Moses
- Feb 22, 2002
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More Libya updates:
quote:• Canada has joined the list of countries recognising the National Transitional Council of Libyan rebels in Benghazi as the legitimate representative of the Libyan people.
• Rebels are advancing westward in an attempt to retake the oil town of Brega (see map). Nato has bombed Brega over the last few weeks and used attack helicopters against Muammar Gaddafi's forces there.
• East of Tripoli, Nato has been dropping leaflets illustrated with pictures of Apache attack helicopters warning government troops to abandon their posts outside Zlitan, which is just west of rebel-held Misrata. Chris Stephen, who is in Misrata, will be sending more on this shortly.
quote:Chris Stephen in Misrata sends more on the leaflets Nato dropped on Libyan government forces' lines today showing a lurid picture of an Apache helicopter and a burning tank and warning: "If you see this aircraft, your time is finished." Chris writes:
quote: The leaflets are presumably intended to dissuade Gaddafi forces surrounding Misrata from their daily bombardment of the outskirts of the city with Grad rockets that have killed 70 soldiers and wounded more than 300 in the past eight days.
But unknown to Nato, rebel troops had moved five miles forward of their front line so the bomb that contained the leaflets and exploded in the air landed among rebel troops.
Their first reaction was whoops of joy as they dug in among new positions after their advance; rebel commanders have complained over the past week of bombardments of the lack of Nato countermeasures. Then the rebel soldiers realised Nato had dropped the leaflets assuming they were government troops. As more jets circled overhead, the rebels upped sticks: within half an hour the entire rebel army had pulled back five miles to its original front line, which commanders say Nato has designated as a Red Line - not to be crossed in order to leave everything forward of it as a free fire zone.
And Syria:
quote:More evidence has emerged to suggest that Iranians are involved in the crackdown in Syria.
Last week refugees fleeing the north-western town of Jisr al-Shughour talked of bearded non-Arabic speakers acting alongside Syrian security personnel.
Now al-Arabiya TV has unearthed footage of two men being questioned by Syrian activists and admitting that they are Iranian Shias, writes our Middle East editor
quote:
The sound quality is poor and the words indistinct but they can be heard clearly saying they worked for "military security". They are speaking Arabic in an accent that suggests they are from Ahwaz, capital of the Arabic-speaking area of south-western Iran known as Khuzestan.
And Jordan
quote:Jordan's king says it will take two to three years before the country's fragmented political parties are ready to elect a prime minister and cabinet, the Associated Press news agency reports
King Abdullah II is taking a further step to explain his vision of political reform in Jordan, two days after making a major concession to citizens for sharing power.
On Sunday, Abdullah agreed to allow Jordan's prime minister to be elected by a parliamentary majority instead of being appointed by the king – a main demand of pro-democracy activists.
Abdullah said today that the country's 33 political parties must quickly merge into three main blocs and help the government draw up political and economic policies.
Once that's done, he said Jordanians will be able to elect a prime minister and a cabinet from these blocs.
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Jun 14, 2011 16:06
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- Xandu
- Feb 19, 2006
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It's hard to be humble when you're as great as I am.
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Is Ham still reading this thread? Interesting political development in Egypt. They're not historically that close as far as I'm aware.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/egypts-muslim-brotherhood-forms-coalition-with-liberal-party/2011/06/13/AGQI7OTH_story.html posted:
CAIRO — Egypt’s most organized and powerful Islamist movement on Monday announced it intends to join forces with one of the nation’s oldest liberal parties, presenting a formidable coalition for upcoming parliamentary elections.
The alliance would unite the Muslim Brotherhood’s Freedom and Justice Party and the Wafd Party, a liberal party established just after World War I, to run on one candidate list in the elections scheduled for September. The move is likely to be a significant boost for the Brotherhood, a well-organized political group that expects to take a third of parliament’s seats.
The move surprised some analysts because of the long-standing rivalry between the two groups, and likely startled some secularists and liberals.
“Now that this coalition exists, it will dictate the electoral outcome,” said Essam el-Erian, vice president of the Freedom and Justice Party and former member of the Brotherhood’s guidance bureau. Erian said that the coalition is open and encourages others to join.
“We want a parliament that represents the entire nation, with all its political tendencies and forces,” he said.
The coalition of the two parties is the start of what Erian said the parties hope will be a far-reaching alliance with other groups and independent candidates. Ultimately, he said, they hope the coalition, after others join, will have a strong showing in the first parliament to be elected following President Hosni Mubarak’s ouster in February.
No single party is expected to win an outright majority in parliament, a body that will be tasked with choosing a 100-member committee to write Egypt’s new constitution.
While secular and liberal organizations are scrambling to form parties and campaign, the Brotherhood is reaching out to strengthen its existing base and eliminate competition with groups that have overlapping territory.
“This may give them a very solid base in areas they hadn’t previously been strong,” said Elijah Zarwan, an Egypt researcher at the International Crisis Group. The Brotherhood “is taking a long view of Egyptian politics. It’s a very significant switch.”
The Brotherhood, founded in 1928, first fielded “independent” candidates in 1984 in elections widely believed to be rigged in favor of Mubarak’s National Democratic Party. Despite being legally banned under Mubarak, it was allowed to exist under strict constraints and was considered one of the only alternatives to the ruling party.
The new alliance is one of “political opportunism,” said Nabil Fahmy, former Egyptian ambassador to the U.S. and dean of the school of public affairs at the American University of Cairo.
The announcement came a week after a group of liberal parties met and promised not to compete against each other. Fahmy said he was surprised the new coalition was formed so early when it’s still unclear if the elections will actually be held in September or be postponed, as many advocate.
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Jun 14, 2011 16:13
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- farraday
- Jan 10, 2007
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Lower those eyebrows, young man. And the other one.
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Interesting news from Egypt. I wonder if the logic is to form a coalition which can create the electoral majority to provide legitimacy for the new government outside of military channels.
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Jun 14, 2011 16:33
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- Xandu
- Feb 19, 2006
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It's hard to be humble when you're as great as I am.
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It certainly helps the MB because they're promising to not run for a majority of seats (although it's not clear they could win that many to begin with), but this would give them more power. I don't know what Wafd gets out of it, though. They're a pretty old party, but they've never won that many seats in parliaments. Maybe they're worried about losing popularity now that anyone can start a party.
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Jun 14, 2011 16:36
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- Ireland Sucks
- May 16, 2004
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The Chief of Defense staff said his quote was taken out of context and they can continue the campaign for as long as they want
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Jun 14, 2011 18:24
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- dj_clawson
- Jan 12, 2004
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We are all sinners in the eyes of these popsicle sticks.
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Remember that "massacre at the Israeli border with Syria" last week? The one that was never proven to actually result in mass deaths? (But 20 Palestinians were shot around the same time - by Syrians, in the refugee camp in their country)
Turns out the Syrian government was behind it.
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2011/jun/14/document-syria-orchestrated-border-battles-israel/
quote:
A leaked Syrian government document shows that the regime orchestrated last month’s border clashes with Israel.
Syrian security forces were told to grant free passage to 20 protester-filled buses and to allow them to cross the cease-fire line with Israel, according to the memorandum, which was which was obtained by The Daily Telegraph.
“All security, military, and contingent units … are hereby ordered to grant permission of passage to all twenty vehicles (47 passenger capacity) with the attached plate numbers that are scheduled to arrive at ten in the morning on Sunday May 15, 2011 without being questioned or stopped until it reaches or frontier defense locations,” the document says.
“Permission is hereby granted allowing approaching crowds to cross the cease fire line (with Israel) towards the occupied Majdal-Shamms, and to further allow them to engage physically with each other in front of United Nations agents and offices.”
“It is essential to ensure that no one carries military identification or a weapon as they enter with a strict emphasis on the peaceful and spontaneous nature of the protest,” the note adds.
The memorandum also describes an “urgent meeting” between the army’s deputy chief of staff and senior intelligence officials in a Syrian province adjacent to the Israeli border.
The document, which bears the Syrian state emblem and the signature of the mayor of Al-Qunaitera province, is dated May 14, 2011, the day before the clashes, which took place alongside smiliar rushes on Israel’s borders with Lebanon and the Gaza Strip.
The clashes turned deadly when Israeli forces fired on infiltrators who had breached the border.
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Jun 14, 2011 20:09
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- Svartvit
- Jun 18, 2005
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al-Qabila samaa Bahth
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Oh please, won't you ever stop your brainless propaganda? Everyone knew full well both at Nakba and Naksa day that the Syrians didn't stop the protesters from reaching the Golans. The mere fact that the protests were carried out was solid evidence for that, and the fact that every other attempt was stopped is another. You have to be really indoctrinated by your own propaganda to believe that not attempting to stop it is the same thing as being "behind it". Letting the protesters demonstrate was the only moral thing the Syrian government did. Making sure that everyone was unarmed made it even better.
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Jun 14, 2011 20:16
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- Xandu
- Feb 19, 2006
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It's hard to be humble when you're as great as I am.
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dj_clawson posted:
(But 20 Palestinians were shot around the same time - by Syrians, in the refugee camp in their country)
The article is interesting (though already posted by Brown Moses), but could you show your bias any more?
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Jun 14, 2011 20:16
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- dj_clawson
- Jan 12, 2004
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We are all sinners in the eyes of these popsicle sticks.
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Svartvit posted:
Oh please, won't you ever stop your brainless propaganda? Everyone knew full well both at Nakba and Naksa day that the Syrians didn't stop the protesters from reaching the Golans. The mere fact that the protests were carried out was solid evidence for that, and the fact that every other attempt was stopped is another. You have to be really indoctrinated by your own propaganda to believe that not attempting to stop it is the same thing as being "behind it". Letting the protesters demonstrate was the only moral thing the Syrian government did. Making sure that everyone was unarmed made it even better.
I'm not sure how a secret document from the Syrian government detailing a situation is "brainless propaganda."
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Jun 14, 2011 20:49
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- dogmaan
- Sep 13, 2007
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Svartvit posted:
Oh please, won't you ever stop your brainless propaganda? Everyone knew full well both at Nakba and Naksa day that the Syrians didn't stop the protesters from reaching the Golans. The mere fact that the protests were carried out was solid evidence for that, and the fact that every other attempt was stopped is another. You have to be really indoctrinated by your own propaganda to believe that not attempting to stop it is the same thing as being "behind it". Letting the protesters demonstrate was the only moral thing the Syrian government did. Making sure that everyone was unarmed made it even better.
Ha Ha
Syrian Government == Moral
"brainless propaganda"
Seriously, I couldn't even write this if I tried, funny stuff.
I mean obviously the Syrian government did it for "moral" reasons, and not at all to take the spotlight off of their human rights abuses.
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Jun 14, 2011 20:54
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- dj_clawson
- Jan 12, 2004
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We are all sinners in the eyes of these popsicle sticks.
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dogmaan posted:
Ha Ha
Syrian Government == Moral
"brainless propaganda"
Seriously, I couldn't even write this if I tried, funny stuff.
I mean obviously the Syrian government did it for "moral" reasons, and not at all to take the spotlight off of their human rights abuses.
Doing it to take the spotlight off their human rights abuses IS what I meant.
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Jun 14, 2011 21:03
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- Adbot
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ADBOT LOVES YOU
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Apr 25, 2024 08:30
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- Svartvit
- Jun 18, 2005
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al-Qabila samaa Bahth
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dj_clawson posted:
I'm not sure how a secret document from the Syrian government detailing a situation is "brainless propaganda."
dogmaan posted:
Ha Ha
Syrian Government == Moral
"brainless propaganda"
Seriously, I couldn't even write this if I tried, funny stuff.
I mean obviously the Syrian government did it for "moral" reasons, and not at all to take the spotlight off of their human rights abuses.
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Jun 14, 2011 21:29
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Jun 13, 2011 11:05
SoroScrew 
