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Who Killed WCW?
Eric Bischoff
Hulk Hogan
Vince Russo
Jerusalem
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Astro7x
Aug 4, 2004
Thinks It's All Real

Skinty McEdger posted:

The WWE channel has been pretty much a negotiating tool for years. You'll notice that they bring up the subject whenever they are having problems with broadcasters over schedualing or content. It's the corprate "we'll take our ball home if you don't play our way."

Thats not to make me think they won't eventually end up doing it. At some point someone will call their bluff and because Vince is a manchild who will never back down the channel will come into being.

I would imagine what they would get per subscriber across cable and satellite providers for a whole channel would be much more than whatever they are making with WWE On Demand on JUST Comcast/Xfinity.

It's something around 10 cents to 20 cents per month I think.

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Cactus Jack
Nov 16, 2005

If you even try to throw to my side of the field in a dream, you better wake up and apologize.

Astro7x posted:

I would imagine what they would get per subscriber across cable and satellite providers for a whole channel would be much more than whatever they are making with WWE On Demand on JUST Comcast/Xfinity.

It's something around 10 cents to 20 cents per month I think.

STAC Goat
Mar 12, 2008

Watching you sleep.

Butt first, let's
check the feeds.

Astro7x posted:

I would imagine what they would get per subscriber across cable and satellite providers for a whole channel would be much more than whatever they are making with WWE On Demand on JUST Comcast/Xfinity.

It's something around 10 cents to 20 cents per month I think.

But the cost and work put into a WWE Channel would way outweigh the On Demand channel. Really, I don't think anyone ever really considers what a WWE Channel would mean. New studios, a ton new production, a major hit to the DVD market, potential daily live shows. Who knows if the increased profit would outweigh the increased cost of business.

Skinty is almost certainly correct. Its a nonsense bluff used to threaten networks when they're negotiating TV deals. "Well, we don't have to re-sign with you, USA. We could just start our own network. We have enough footage and knowledge." WWE might one day make the decision to go with it because they''ve never really been shy about overextending themselves, but no one should be holding their breath.

SiKboy
Oct 28, 2007

Oh no!😱

STAC Goat posted:

But the cost and work put into a WWE Channel would way outweigh the On Demand channel. Really, I don't think anyone ever really considers what a WWE Channel would mean. New studios, a ton new production, a major hit to the DVD market, potential daily live shows. Who knows if the increased profit would outweigh the increased cost of business.

Skinty is almost certainly correct. Its a nonsense bluff used to threaten networks when they're negotiating TV deals. "Well, we don't have to re-sign with you, USA. We could just start our own network. We have enough footage and knowledge." WWE might one day make the decision to go with it because they''ve never really been shy about overextending themselves, but no one should be holding their breath.

I'm not sure that there would be a major hit to DVD sales to be honest, as long as the WWE were smart about it. Show all the shows, Raw, Smackdown, Superstars, Nitro and Thunder and whatever else, but dont show the PPVs on the channel (or at least not as a regular part of their programming, maybe make one day a month "Old PPV day" or something, show old wrestlemanias the day before wrestlemania, things like that). The tape library of the WWE is ridiculously huge, and most of it isnt on DVD and the WWE dont seem to have any particular intention of releasing it (people have talked before about the potential problems with trying to make up a Nitro DVD set, so you are unlikely to ever see most of their tape library apart from very truncated "Best of Show/promotion X volume 1" style releases). That gives them a huge amount of material that they could show on TV that essentially costs them nothing (as they already own the tape library) except, if they are feeling fancy, the cost of recording a short intro/outro/link for each episode.

Then, release some DVDs. Not just Best of Thunder/Nitro/Raw/Global/whatever, but tagged classics style low rent DVDs of Starrcade, WW3, and so on. People can watch the shows on the WWEs subscription channel, then buy the DVDs to see the payoff*. Or put them on-demand streaming online if they dont want to invest in manufacturing physical disks.

Now, I'm not saying that it wouldnt be a huge risk (it would be, I imagine the start-up costs would be fairly sizable, and if it XFL'ed on them then they would have to go cap in hand to the networks and take whatever offer they could to get back on TV, because without a national TV outlet they are pretty much hosed), I'm just saying that it may be a bluff and a bargaining tool, but I dont think its a completely empty bluff.

Edit to add;

*Which brings us back to WCW! If they had remembered that you give the fans free matches to hook them in so that they buy the PPV and your merchandise, they might have lasted longer. Ratings are good, but buyrates are better.

SiKboy fucked around with this message at 13:05 on Apr 4, 2011

STAC Goat
Mar 12, 2008

Watching you sleep.

Butt first, let's
check the feeds.

See, its hard to know what you could and couldn't put on the WWE channel because its such a huge idea. 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. How do you fill those hours? Obviously fans hope that WWE would just open the vault and air constant stuff all day every day but that doesn't strike me as financially feasible. People with big DVRs and lots of harddrive space would max out quickly and have more wrestling than they could handle. Even if you weren't using a lot of stuff you would have put on DVD its still got to hit the DVD market in the fact that if fans have all this wrestling available to them on cable that lessens the need to buy DVDs to get more. Honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if it even impacted TV ratings and PPV buys. Why pay for a subpar PPV card when there's hours and hours of wrestling on your DVR? Why watch a RAW you don't care about if there's stuff saved? Are you going to watch Superstars, a match of meaningless jobber matches, or some old bit of wrestling history?

I was tempted to challenge people to try and put together an actual 7 day schedule. Not just prime time hours, all the hours in the day. Just to show how hard it really is and how much material you'd burn through quickly. But I didn't bother because this really isn't the topic and I can't imagine doing it myself. Every time I started thinking about it I was overwhelmed and bailed quickly, so there was no point in asking others to do so. Point is, its a really big effort to try and imagine a full schedule that both warrants the channel existing but also doesn't flood the audience with so much material that you over-saturate the market and burn out your library.

But you're probably right. Its probably not a 100% completely empty bluff. If Vince McMahon thought he could start a music label, a movie studio, a bodybuilding league, and a competitor to the NFL than he almost certainly believes he's capable of starting a network. I just doubt its much more than a vague idea they bring up from time to time but abandon because its just too big a task, but then use in the course of negotiations with USA, SyFy, WGN, or whoever.

STAC Goat fucked around with this message at 13:56 on Apr 4, 2011

Zack_Gochuck
Jan 4, 2007

Stupid Wrestling People
A lot of specialty channels have 12 or even 8 hour schedules that repeat throughout the day. I think that would be the best way to do a WWE channel. So, for example, you work out 8 hours of programming a day instead of 24, and then it runs through 3 times throughout the day. On Thursdays, for example, you could have a two hour jobberific block of Superstars, then a classic superstars from the 80s or 90s, a two hour block of AWA, an old episode of Thursday Night Smackdown, and a one hour legends round table. There's a day of programming without even breaking out the hours and hours of WCCW, WCW, and ECW stuff. One old PPV, or Nitro from 1999 would fill almost half a day of programming. Daunting, sure, but I think it's doable.

I think the biggest challenges are not cannibalizing your ratings when you have shows on other networks, and not over saturating the market.

Zack_Gochuck fucked around with this message at 14:16 on Apr 4, 2011

MassRafTer
May 26, 2001

BAEST MODE!!!
WWE's DVD sales are dying. They have been declining the last few years, dramatically so. WWE needs a new stream like this to replace some of that lost income.

This is what WWE owns the rights to:

WCCW
OVW
FCW
JCP
GCW
AWA
Toronto
Florida
Stampede
ECW
SMW

Included in those are some other promotions and tape libraries.

Then there are the two main cogs:

WCW with a tape library of:
dozens of PPVs
5.5 years of Nitro
3 years of Thunder
a decade of Saturday Night
a decade of Worldwide
dozens of Clashes
Plus other smaller shows like Pro and Main Event

They could show nothing but Nitro for 24 hours a day and not run out for 3 weeks. If the showed it 5 times a week it would take a year to burn through every Nitro.

Then there is the WWE library:
Hundreds of PPVs
18 years of Raw
12 years of Smackdown
Dozens of SNME and other specials
4 years of ECW
A few seasons of Tough Enough
Superstars, Mania, and other shows.
Plus WWE films, cartoons, DVD docs, Roundtables, etc

They could run nothing but Raw for 2 and a half months and not run out. I'd wager they have enough PPVs to run them for a month straight.

There is plenty of content for a 12 or 18 hour schedule. Plenty. Run each classic promotion once per week (or twice if you have more than 5 years of content). One WWE PPV, one WCW PPV, one special. 3 Raws, 2 Smackdowns, 2 Nitros. From there you sprinkle in old B shows to fill up your schedule and you will easily fill up 12-18 hours of content per day.

Paper Jam Dipper
Jul 14, 2007

by XyloJW
I hope they do something like, "Friday is Canada Day! Watch your favourite Canadian superstars plus footage from Stampede Wrestling, Maple Leaf Wrestling and more!"

Astro7x
Aug 4, 2004
Thinks It's All Real
So has anybody picked up the Very Best of WCW DVD that came out the other week?

I really hope that they keep making these WCW DVDs, they're awesome... I actually have been watching a collection of the complete 1997 year of WCW. I've gotten though about 1 month every week just on my daily commute to work on the train. I started watching WCW Back in September/October 1997, so a lot of this is brand new to me.

CombineThresher
Apr 10, 2006

GIT R DONNE

MassRayPer posted:

There is plenty of content for a 12 or 18 hour schedule. Plenty.

And that's not even including stuff like the Legends of Wrestling roundtables (which are awesome and often pretty hilarious) that only show clips of archived content.

Orange Carlisle
Jul 14, 2007

That's all assuming that Vince's "Only gonna show what I want people to see" and other various WWE fuckery doesn't come into play. Being the petty old man that he is they'd probably only show the poo poo that makes WCW continue to look bad or stuff from guys that are still employed with or retired in WWE.

And Benoit. That'll cut out a good percentage of the good matches there as well.

RealFoxy
May 11, 2011

I'm not making a fucking QCS thread for this but seriously can we take a harder stance on Kiwifarms freaks like this guy, Jesus Christ seriously, you used to be better at knocking these creeps down. I guess ADTRW mods aren't responsible like GBS mods are.
Instead of a WWE 24/7 that almost no one has, they should just introduce a Netflix-esque service that lets you watch old TV shows and such, as well as rent/digitally buy old PPVs.

On WCW, I remember my friend telling me about weird poo poo, like them having funerals for guys like Goldberg and others who left the company, and all I can think is "What the poo poo?" I started watching in 1996, and kept going until mid-2001 or so. I remember some ridiculous stuff, like Tank Abott pulling a knife on someone, Russo being World Champion, and Jeff Jarret's GUITARS loving EVERYWHERE.

Paper Jam Dipper
Jul 14, 2007

by XyloJW

Flameingblack posted:

Instead of a WWE 24/7 that almost no one has, they should just introduce a Netflix-esque service that lets you watch old TV shows and such, as well as rent/digitally buy old PPVs.

On WCW, I remember my friend telling me about weird poo poo, like them having funerals for guys like Goldberg and others who left the company, and all I can think is "What the poo poo?"

Most companies loving hate the Netflix system but if WWE over-charged for it, like the price of a modern WWE PPV a month for it, people would buy into it enough to make it worth the cost in bandwidth.

Akileese
Feb 6, 2005

Lone Rogue posted:

Most companies loving hate the Netflix system but if WWE over-charged for it, like the price of a modern WWE PPV a month for it, people would buy into it enough to make it worth the cost in bandwidth.
No one in their right mind would pay $45 a month for a loving WWE Netflix type service. That's absolutely beyond mental. $15 maybe but anymore than that and it's absolutely insane.

Flight Bisque
Feb 23, 2008

There is, surprisingly, always hope.
I don't understand (well I kind of do) why they don't just offer dvds of stuff that wouldn't be a huge seller (complete sets of Nitro/WCW PPVs/Best of Lenny and Lodi) and just burn them to order? If I could pay like I dunno 10 bucks for Spring Stampede 1999 or a dvd of every tv taping I went to in person, or Kevin Sullivan's Devil Worship stuff from Florida I would buy way more dvds than I currently do.

Am I an idiot, or does that make sense? List everything they have on the site, you pick X, Y, and Z, pay, and Joe the intern (or team of interns) go down, pull it all up, burn to a DVDR and mail it out. It would have to be profitable, wouldn't it?

Astro7x
Aug 4, 2004
Thinks It's All Real
I would think that the plan would be to make a WWE channel on cable and air that stuff on that. They'd get something like 10 cents per subscriber if they watch the channel or not, and would most likely make a bunch more money than with their 24/7 service. On Demand in general is horrible. The interface is laggy and non intuitive, and it's limited to the amount of programming is so limited as it is. I had a free trial for a month of 24/7, loved it, but often forgot I had it because it's so tucked away.

Call Me Charlie
Dec 3, 2005

by Smythe

whatsabattle posted:

I don't understand (well I kind of do) why they don't just offer dvds of stuff that wouldn't be a huge seller (complete sets of Nitro/WCW PPVs/Best of Lenny and Lodi) and just burn them to order? If I could pay like I dunno 10 bucks for Spring Stampede 1999 or a dvd of every tv taping I went to in person, or Kevin Sullivan's Devil Worship stuff from Florida I would buy way more dvds than I currently do.

Am I an idiot, or does that make sense? List everything they have on the site, you pick X, Y, and Z, pay, and Joe the intern (or team of interns) go down, pull it all up, burn to a DVDR and mail it out. It would have to be profitable, wouldn't it?

Burn to order costs too much money. Adult Swim has something like that and they charge $20 for less than two hours of footage.

Zack_Gochuck
Jan 4, 2007

Stupid Wrestling People

whatsabattle posted:

I don't understand (well I kind of do) why they don't just offer dvds of stuff that wouldn't be a huge seller (complete sets of Nitro/WCW PPVs/Best of Lenny and Lodi) and just burn them to order? If I could pay like I dunno 10 bucks for Spring Stampede 1999 or a dvd of every tv taping I went to in person, or Kevin Sullivan's Devil Worship stuff from Florida I would buy way more dvds than I currently do.

Am I an idiot, or does that make sense? List everything they have on the site, you pick X, Y, and Z, pay, and Joe the intern (or team of interns) go down, pull it all up, burn to a DVDR and mail it out. It would have to be profitable, wouldn't it?

There are a lot of factors at play here. WWE no longer has rights to some themes used in wcw, some of the tapes probably need to be restored, on top of the fact that they would risk cannibalizing current DVD sales. You also have to remember that there are some things WWE just don't want us to see again.

Astro7x
Aug 4, 2004
Thinks It's All Real

Magic_Ceiling_Fan posted:

There are a lot of factors at play here. WWE no longer has rights to some themes used in wcw, some of the tapes probably need to be restored, on top of the fact that they would risk cannibalizing current DVD sales. You also have to remember that there are some things WWE just don't want us to see again.

It's sad watching Nitro on 24/7 and not being able to recall Goldberg's original entrance music...

Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Would you be my new best friends?

Astro7x posted:

It's sad watching Nitro on 24/7 and not being able to recall Goldberg's original entrance music...

DUNNAH DOO DOO!

DUNNAH DOO DOO!

DUNNAH DOO! DUNNAH DOO!

DUNNAH DOO DOO DOO DOO, DO DOO DOO DO DOOO!

(GOOOOOLDBERG!) DA DA (GOOOOOOLDBERG!)

DA DA DAH! DA DA DAH!

DA DA DAH DA DA DA! DA DA, DA, DA DAAAAAAH!

(GOLDBERG!) (GOLDBERG!) (GOLDBERG!) (GOLDBERG!) (GOLDBERG!) (GOLDBERG!)

Nut Bunnies
May 24, 2005

Fun Shoe
WWE has a streaming service and it's pretty great, although it's Windows only.

Flight Bisque
Feb 23, 2008

There is, surprisingly, always hope.

Magic_Ceiling_Fan posted:

There are a lot of factors at play here. WWE no longer has rights to some themes used in wcw, some of the tapes probably need to be restored, on top of the fact that they would risk cannibalizing current DVD sales. You also have to remember that there are some things WWE just don't want us to see again.

The themes thing is a valid point, but since they are working through dubbing the gently caress out of everything anyway for dvds and 24/7 and stuff, not an insurmountable thing. Worst case give everyone public domain music. The NWO can come out to Dance of the Sugar Plum Fairies.

Restoration a good point, I have no argument there.

Cannibalizing current dvd sales, I don't think it would really go like that. The people who would buy a Best of David Flair/Daffney/Crowbar dvd aren't the same ones who will buy the 35th John Cena dvd they put out. It's a niche market I guess, one not worth exploring. But I can dream. :(

Rusty Shackelford
Feb 7, 2005

Magic_Ceiling_Fan posted:

There are a lot of factors at play here. WWE no longer has rights to some themes used in wcw, some of the tapes probably need to be restored, on top of the fact that they would risk cannibalizing current DVD sales. You also have to remember that there are some things WWE just don't want us to see again.

If this post is to be believed - http://www.rspwfaq.com/2010/02/28/wwe-dvd-sales/ - DVD sales are pretty weak as it is.

oldpainless
Oct 30, 2009

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I still buy the DVDs but its always at a cd exchange I found. They have a shitload of WWE dvds for 6.99 each so I get one every week or so. The DVD with the most copies? Bad Blood 2004 for some reason. I got the RR 06 and 10 last week.

I'm usually the only one looking at them but a few weeks ago a kid about 7 or 8 ran over to them and every cover he looked at made him more and more excited.

"Batista! Oh cool!"

"Undertaker!! Awesome!!!"

"JOHN CENA!! YOU CAN'T SEE ME!! (does the hand gesture)Do you like John Cena mister?"

Me: "I-"

Kid: "I like John Cena cuz he never gives up and hes so strongandihaveallhistshirts!"

Me: "I like John Cena too."

Kid: :haw:

That kid followed me around the store for like 10 minutes telling me how much he loves wrestling and all his favorite guys and who he hates. He talked just like Dash from The Incredibles.

MassRafTer
May 26, 2001

BAEST MODE!!!
So who did he hate and why?

oldpainless
Oct 30, 2009

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He hates Miz because he's "so stupid" and has a "stupid face."
He really hates Wade Barrett stemming back from Nexus forcing Cena to do stuff and getting Cena fired. This kid was really worried about John Cena not wrestling again.
He also hates Del Rio because Del Rio hurt Mysterio and Mysterio is so much smaller than everyone else so hes always getting hurt but he still wins a lot.

Push El Burrito
May 9, 2006

Soiled Meat

oldpainless posted:

He hates Miz because he's "so stupid" and has a "stupid face."

So you ran into Hiram's Bitch huh?

bobkatt013
Oct 8, 2006

You’re telling me Peter Parker is ...... Spider-man!?

oldpainless posted:

He hates Miz because he's "so stupid" and has a "stupid face."
He really hates Wade Barrett stemming back from Nexus forcing Cena to do stuff and getting Cena fired. This kid was really worried about John Cena not wrestling again.
He also hates Del Rio because Del Rio hurt Mysterio and Mysterio is so much smaller than everyone else so hes always getting hurt but he still wins a lot.

Kids are the best wrestling fans

Rousimar Pauladeen
Feb 27, 2007

I hate the mods I hate the mods I hate the mods! I HATE THE MODS I HATE THE MODS I HATE THE MODS! Hey wait a minute why do the mods hate me I'm contributing to the conversation I HATE THE MODS I HATE THE MODS I HA

bobkatt013 posted:

Kids are the best wrestling fans

They are fun to mock when at a live event. I think being a giant rear end who talks trash to them about Cena knowing that Cena will win the hole time makes their experience that much sweeter

Gavok
Oct 10, 2005

Brock! Oh, man, I'm sorry about your...

...tooth?


bobkatt013 posted:

Kids are the best wrestling fans

At work, whenever a kid is buying a WWE book or magazine, I always ask who his favorite is and when they say whichever top face, I always respond with this shocked, "Don't you mean the MIZ is your favorite? Don't you mean WADE BARRETT is your favorite?" And so on.

Lately I've taken to referring to the kids as Little Jimmy, which everyone seems to enjoy. Especially the parents.

MassRafTer
May 26, 2001

BAEST MODE!!!

Gavok posted:

At work, whenever a kid is buying a WWE book or magazine, I always ask who his favorite is and when they say whichever top face, I always respond with this shocked, "Don't you mean the MIZ is your favorite? Don't you mean WADE BARRETT is your favorite?" And so on.

Lately I've taken to referring to the kids as Little Jimmy, which everyone seems to enjoy. Especially the parents.

How many bookstores have you been fired from?

MysticalMachineGun
Apr 5, 2005

MassRayPer posted:

How many bookstores have you been fired from?

I'm guessing none, due to those kids vehemently defending their favourites as kids are wont to do when you obviously stir them up :)

Gavok
Oct 10, 2005

Brock! Oh, man, I'm sorry about your...

...tooth?


Yeah, I don't do it in a serious way to get them angry. I act genuinely shocked and hammy about it to play along.

algebra testes
Mar 5, 2011


Lipstick Apathy
Okay, let's just say you are going to release Wrestlewar '92. First off, do they have the complete footage for it? Or do they only have the VHS edits which trim the fat, but also butcher some matches (LIGER/PILMAN! :argh:) If they have it all, do they release it in its entirety? That would mean you would have one hour of loving god awful garbage, an hour of mediocre poo poo and an hour of pure brilliance (Which, ironicaly considering WCW in the 1990s, normally came from the top of the card with Flair/Steamboat/Sting etc).

Edited, from memory, WCW Wrestlewar 1992 looked like this:

Freebirds v Tayler/Valentine (sure, okay could be worse)

Simmons v. Jack (Look, it's Mankind!)

Steiners stiffing the poo poo out of two Japanese dudes. :fsmug:

Pillman v. Zenk for the cruiserweight title (I remember this being good.)

Stinger's Squadron v. The Dangerous Alliance. (***** :supaburn::supaburn::supaburn:)

And, from memory it was an awesome tape. And because WCW papered like crazy the crowd was full and it looked awesome.

So what do you do? Release full god awful ppvs which no one will buy or release an edited PPV that makes WCW look incredible?

MrBling
Aug 21, 2003

Oozing machismo
There are releases of PPV feeds of various old WCW ppvs floating around, so I would assume that WWE has full copies in their library.

long-ass nips Diane
Dec 13, 2010

Breathe.

Flameingblack posted:

Instead of a WWE 24/7 that almost no one has, they should just introduce a Netflix-esque service that lets you watch old TV shows and such, as well as rent/digitally buy old PPVs.

Captain Charisma mentioned this but this already exists. http://www2.wwe.com/subscriptions/wweclassics/

It's kinda skimpy on the content at times but it's very cheap.

Lamuella
Jun 26, 2003

It's like goldy or bronzy, but made of iron.


bobkatt013 posted:

Kids are the best wrestling fans

that thread we had about kid wrestling fans was the best.

I went to a local indie show at the end of last month, and the kids swarming around the ring were the best part of the show. A bunch of them surrounded Rockstar Spud to the point where he had to threaten them with a chair in order to get back to the ring.

Hirams Bitch
Oct 24, 2008

THE GAYEST POSTER posted:

So you ran into Hiram's Bitch huh?

Are you denying that his face is stupid?

Nut Bunnies
May 24, 2005

Fun Shoe

JohnWilkesGoonth posted:

Captain Charisma mentioned this but this already exists. http://www2.wwe.com/subscriptions/wweclassics/

It's kinda skimpy on the content at times but it's very cheap.

WWE was actually pretty ahead of the curve on this, as they first put it up in 2005 or so, way before Hulu or Netflix streaming really started the streaming trend.

Unfortunately that also meant relying on lovely technology, and for some reason they're still relying on said lovely technology.

The library has vastly improved, though. They have full episodes of Wrestling Challenge, Saturday Night's Main Event, and Superstars from the 80s and 90s, which are fun.

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El Duke Silver
Aug 15, 2008

rarely goes out and should never be approached

Captain Charisma posted:

WWE was actually pretty ahead of the curve on this, as they first put it up in 2005 or so, way before Hulu or Netflix streaming really started the streaming trend.

I think the online innovation curve kind of stops around Shane's departure. Then they just kind of left whatever he did going and never updated.

I mean, encrypted WMV streams? In 2011?

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