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Ithaqua posted:It depends on the level of cert. Microsoft's certs are pretty good, especially as you get higher up. Basically, a guy who's an MCPD is probably pretty good, or at the very least, not a total moron. Or can afford the tests and knows how to use google to find the answers.
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Jun 15, 2011 01:53
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Orzo posted:That's pretty obnoxious and highly impractical, I know some good developers with certifications on their resume. Some companies really like them, some don't give a gently caress--but nobody should be penalized for having them. I think this would depend on what sort of cert you had - a CCNP or whatever is pretty much lagniappe on a dev's resume, whereas an MCSE if you're applying to a Unix shop or a Java cert anywhere nearly guarantees you're clueless
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Jun 15, 2011 04:45
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The only use for a low level java cert like that is if you're a company selling development services and you want to be able to say "all our developers are certified by Oracle" to impress a client's senior management. As an individual though you're not going to get any benefit out of it.
Contra Duck fucked around with this message at 06:21 on Jun 15, 2011 |
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Jun 15, 2011 06:19
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I think everyone can agree that the best way to help any technical resume is to contribute worthwhile code to an open source project. It shows you can code, know a vcs, can communicate with a team, and you gain experience as you do it. Yes it doesn't pay, but it'll pay off in the long run.
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Jun 15, 2011 06:27
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Pram posted:Yes I realize programming certs are useless but I was mostly curious if it has any value as resume fodder. Probably not though I'm guessing. Tech companies are going to sneer at it. Most developers I know see certs as something a sysadmin or tech support would do. I don't necessarily agree with it - if you actually learn something from it, why not. From a cost-benefit analysis however, you're probably better off writing FOSS code.
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Jun 15, 2011 12:29
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Pram posted:Yes I realize programming certs are useless but I was mostly curious if it has any value as resume fodder. Probably not though I'm guessing. shrike82 posted:Tech companies are going to sneer at it. Most developers I know see certs as something a sysadmin or tech support would do. As shrike says, it's not just recruiters who look at your resume - it's developers who will most likely be interviewing you, and lovely certs will not really impress them, and you know what developers are like - they'll crack a joke amongst themselves as soon as they see your CV, and then throughout the interview they'll have that pre-conceived idea of you in their head. One becomes "can't proof read guy", another "why are there speedometers on his CV guy" and you'd become "lovely cert guy". There is a strain of anti-certification/'anti-intellectualism' amongst developers. You don't want to come afoul of it.
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Jun 15, 2011 21:12
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Milotic posted:As shrike says, it's not just recruiters who look at your resume - it's developers who will most likely be interviewing you, and lovely certs will not really impress them, and you know what developers are like - they'll crack a joke amongst themselves as soon as they see your CV, and then throughout the interview they'll have that pre-conceived idea of you in their head. One becomes "can't proof read guy", another "why are there speedometers on his CV guy" and you'd become "lovely cert guy". It's actually the opposite of anti-intellectualism: certificates imply you know how to memorize well, a degree (should, anyways) implies you have had to wrestle with and master concepts and actually think.
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Jun 15, 2011 22:57
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having certs means that you're a bad developer because a good developer wouldn't need to get them
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Jun 15, 2011 23:06
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Plorkyeran posted:having certs means that you're a bad developer because a good developer wouldn't need to get them I hope you're being sarcastic, because that's bullshit and it's a bullshit attitude. I've known fantastic developers with and without certs. note: I don't have any certs.
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Jun 16, 2011 00:23
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Ithaqua posted:I hope you're being sarcastic, because that's bullshit and it's a bullshit attitude. Bullshit attitudes are unfortunately rather common in the industry. It really is a bullshit attitude, but there's a grain of truth in that most certs say nothing about your ability to program. As neckbeards often do, though, they've taken "X is not useful for me" and mentally translated it to "X is a complete and total waste of time and a blight upon CVs of those that don't know better", then they :goonrush: anyone that disagrees.
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Jun 16, 2011 05:33
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Thel posted:Bullshit attitudes are unfortunately rather common in the industry. Truer words, man. We should just rename "Cavern of COBOL" to "Suits 'n' Certs Spergout Corner"
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Jun 16, 2011 14:12
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Certificates on the CV = How do I middle manager?
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Jun 16, 2011 14:56
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Ithaqua posted:I hope you're being sarcastic, because that's bullshit and it's a bullshit attitude. I've known fantastic developers with and without certs.
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Jun 16, 2011 18:02
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shrughes posted:One option: get a shitbag recruiter to schedule your interviews and get them done in one trip. Is there any good way to find a non-shitbag recruiter? Actually, how do I go about finding a recruiter at all? I've been called by a couple recruiters before but I didn't realize I could have one schedule multiple interviews for me.
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Jun 17, 2011 07:47
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His Neutralness posted:Is there any good way to find a non-shitbag recruiter? Actually, how do I go about finding a recruiter at all? I've been called by a couple recruiters before but I didn't realize I could have one schedule multiple interviews for me. My experiences were much like magic_toaster's. I just replied to a Craigslist ad that smelled nice. It was put up by a recruiter, he had this big obvious used-car-salesmaney vibe, and he got me interviews at a bunch of interesting places in Boston and lined them up on the same weekend. He or the company he worked for specialized in startups.
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Jun 17, 2011 11:11
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So from what I've gathered from this thread the best course of action is to specifically list lack of certification on your CV for developers, list them for HR (put a big note above the section that says, "FOR HR'S EYES ONLY!"), and to show up to interviews in casual Hawaiian themed business suits. Am I on the right track to getting a developer job?
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Jun 17, 2011 13:33
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A Jew in Manhattan posted:So from what I've gathered from this thread the best course of action is to specifically list lack of certification on your CV for developers, list them for HR (put a big note above the section that says, "FOR HR'S EYES ONLY!"), and to show up to interviews in casual Hawaiian themed business suits. Include code samples commented well enough that HR can read them like a seasoned professional developer and you're a shoe-in.
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Jun 17, 2011 14:58
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A Jew in Manhattan posted:So from what I've gathered from this thread the best course of action is to specifically list lack of certification on your CV for developers, list them for HR (put a big note above the section that says, "FOR HR'S EYES ONLY!"), and to show up to interviews in casual Hawaiian themed business suits. You should also avoid mentioning weird ivory tower languages such as Haskell, F#, or Erlang.
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Jun 17, 2011 15:34
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Someone got a hold of my group's email address and we're treated to email resumes on a daily basis. Highlights: * Candidates are all H1B holders based in the US looking for contract work (note: we're based in the Carribean and we're an investment fund). * Resumes are 5+ pages with their summary bullets taking up half a page by itself * Resumes list every single specialization under the sun with their skillset listing every single version/iteration of the language/speciality * Bullet points include "Involved in requirement analysis" and "Involved in the bug fixing" * To top it off, the email ends with a faux unsubscribe link stating, "if you do not wish to receive my resume in *sic* future, please hit the reply button, type "remove" in subject..."
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Jun 17, 2011 16:08
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baquerd posted:Include code samples commented well enough that HR can read them like a seasoned professional developer and you're a shoe-in. Normal HR staff would look at code and have their eyes immediately glaze over. Seeing certs would be something they understand and clearly means you know computers. I've been turned down for a help desk job in the past, never even getting my resume past the person at the front desk because I didn't have enough certifications, so I didn't understand networks. I only had 4 years experience working help desk and 2 years as a system and network admin for a place with a WAN going coast to coast over the US and 2 more countries. I guess that means I'm unqualified for help desk. I list my certs and I also have an address I can't point to at sourceforge for some of my code.
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Jun 17, 2011 16:36
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HondaCivet posted:I guess this is more of a general question but is it generally a waste of time to put your resume in with companies that don't currently have any positions open that you fit into? I'm starting a new job in a week and the only reason it happened is because I applied for a gig I was mildly unqualified for. They ended up basically building out a position that fit me pretty well because they liked me during the phone interviews I had.
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Jun 19, 2011 20:09
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FinkieMcGee posted:I'm starting a new job in a week and the only reason it happened is because I applied for a gig I was mildly unqualified for. They ended up basically building out a position that fit me pretty well because they liked me during the phone interviews I had. Just goes to show, never any harm in applying, Congrats!
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Jun 20, 2011 01:46
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I've just finished up a completely unrelated bachelor's at University, but I'm looking to get into development. I've been teaching myself Python for a few months to get the basics down while doing a bit of web development (nothing more complicated than jQuery) on the side. What else should I be doing to get my skills up for eventual interviews? Any must-read books or things that would be the most useful to spend my time on?
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Jun 20, 2011 16:56
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Check out "The algorithm design manual." It's good to understand data structures and algorithms and that book isn't too stuffy or boring.
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Jun 20, 2011 17:34
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Just got offered my first software developer position. I've been a business analyst for about 6 years in the financial sector, doing workflow and data analysis, and creating basic tools in VBA. I don't have a degree of any type, but have taught myself C# over the last year, and worked on some simple programs on my own that I submitted along with my resume. Had a phone interview, followed by a programming competency test, followed by a face-to-face interview and in person programming test where they gave me about a page of production code and asked me to read it for a few minutes and then talk them through what the code was doing, which I was able to do. I'm very excited, as this is my first real development job, which is something I've always wanted to do. I'm a junior developer, and they hinted I'd be working on some of the build automation and installer tools - two things I've obviously never worked with before. So, it's a good mix of nerves and excitement. I start in a few weeks. Any suggestions on what somebody should expect to encounter on their first programming job? This is a C# 3.5 shop, creating database analysis tools for all the major database providers (Oracle, MySQL, MS SQL, etc.).
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Jun 21, 2011 00:44
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Mike1o1 posted:Any suggestions on what somebody should expect to encounter on their first programming job? This is a C# 3.5 shop, creating database analysis tools for all the major database providers (Oracle, MySQL, MS SQL, etc.). Ask them what hardware/software/environment they expect you to work on. Some shops are really strict; others will get you whatever you ask for. Good luck and don't panic. It'll come together pretty quickly.
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Jun 21, 2011 01:00
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Has anyone heard about this? Excerpt:quote:Launched less than a year ago, GILD is a site for computer programmers and other tech professionals that combines social gaming with job search and career advancement. Programmers from around the world can see where they stack up against each other in skills like Java, HTML, C++. They can enter free contests for prizes like iPads, or take free certification tests and amass medals that showcase their skills to colleagues and potential employers.
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Jun 21, 2011 01:18
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Contains Acetone fucked around with this message at 18:00 on Jun 24, 2020 |
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Jun 21, 2011 04:03
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Cicero posted:Has anyone heard about this? Excerpt: I just signed up and took some of the C# tests. There are some good questions on fundamentals, but it's mostly easily Googleable minutiae that I wouldn't expect a developer to know off the top of their head.
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Jun 21, 2011 04:09
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Seems like if a company really wanted to see someone's low to mid-level programming skills, they would just ask for a TopCoder score.
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Jun 21, 2011 05:01
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Contains Acetone posted:Hello Goons! I have a technical phone interview with Google coming up later this week and I was wondering if anyone has any helpful advice for me. I've been reviewing the usual suspect data-structures and algorithms listed at the beginning of the thread. I've also been practicing algorithm coding in notepad sans syntax highlighting and intellisense and doing fairly well. But I still don't feel completely confident. If you've interviewed with Google or know anything about their interview process, could you recommend me some more things to study/practice? Honestly, I've never interviewed anywhere (including Google) where they were really hardcore about syntax. I usually just write in pseudo C++/Java, and no one's had a problem with that. Very few good companies will care if you accidentally write array.length() instead of array.size() or whatever. I'd suggest just brushing up on algorithms, data structure, time/space complexity and what not. For my phone screens, one guy asked me questions like "How many airplanes do you think travels through US airspace in any given day", and the other guy asked me basic programming questions like "What're virtual functions", "what's the difference between an interface and an abstract class", etc. The in person interviews were a lot more in depth. They tended to be just one or two problems, with a lot of aspects. For example, one of the interviewers I had asked me to implement a hash table. He started by just asking me to implement a basic hash table of a set size. Then I was asked to improve it: make it resize dynamically, better collision handling, better hashing, etc.
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Jun 21, 2011 08:47
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Just wanted to say thanks to everyone who contributed to this thread. Y'all helped calm me down when nervous about an interview I had today.
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Jun 23, 2011 09:36
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Got my first ever job interview tomorrow at a sports good company, maintaining and updating their website. Just wondered what you guys think of trying to be funny in the interview? I don't mean strutting into the room being all goofy but just trying to keep the atmosphere light so they think I'm confident and could be easy to work/get along with? Or is it to my advantage to keep is stoic and professional?
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Jun 23, 2011 17:55
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Meliv posted:Got my first ever job interview tomorrow at a sports good company, maintaining and updating their website. Just wondered what you guys think of trying to be funny in the interview? I don't mean strutting into the room being all goofy but just trying to keep the atmosphere light so they think I'm confident and could be easy to work/get along with? Or is it to my advantage to keep is stoic and professional? I know those guys - they hate non-striped ties and enjoy receiving pudding as a gift.
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Jun 23, 2011 18:43
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Meliv posted:Got my first ever job interview tomorrow at a sports good company, maintaining and updating their website. Just wondered what you guys think of trying to be funny in the interview? I don't mean strutting into the room being all goofy but just trying to keep the atmosphere light so they think I'm confident and could be easy to work/get along with? Or is it to my advantage to keep is stoic and professional?
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Jun 23, 2011 18:50
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Meliv posted:Got my first ever job interview tomorrow at a sports good company, maintaining and updating their website. Just wondered what you guys think of trying to be funny in the interview? I don't mean strutting into the room being all goofy but just trying to keep the atmosphere light so they think I'm confident and could be easy to work/get along with? Or is it to my advantage to keep is stoic and professional? Play along with whatever they're doing is my suggestion.
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Jun 23, 2011 19:00
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Chasiubao posted:Play along with whatever they're doing is my suggestion. I would do this, and focus on being 'friendly and polite'. Trying to be funny will probably make you look like a huge tool at best.
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Jun 23, 2011 20:27
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Pweller posted:I would do this, and focus on being 'friendly and polite'. Trying to be funny will probably make you look like a huge tool at best. It really depends on the situation and the people. I've had interviews where the interviewers were cracking jokes and I've had some where they were stonefaced and deadly serious. Also, a lot of day-long interviews include a lunch with the team, where the atmosphere is usually a lot more casual, and it's just about seeing if your personalities mesh. This is usually a pretty good time to just shoot the poo poo with them and crack jokes and whatnot. Keep your jokes light-hearted and non-offensive, obviously.
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Jun 23, 2011 21:03
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Joking is good if you can pull it off and your interviewers appear to be normal humans. Just don't overdo it, and if a joke falls flat, don't look all embarassed; pretend it never happened and keep on truckin'.
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Jun 23, 2011 22:53
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So I'm a Computer Science undergrad student, is ABET accreditation a big deal for CS? Because apparently my school's program doesn't have it.
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Jun 26, 2011 15:59
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