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cock hero flux
Apr 17, 2011



El Belmondo posted:

They can cast life on each other. :aaa: That's not even fair.

I'm pretty sure that they'd just murder you immediately if they were immune to confuse. Also, that battle text seems like it went really fast. It was hard to actually read it. That wasn't sped up, was it?

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Elentor
Dec 14, 2004

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS
Oh God I go to bed for two days and I find this. I wish I could just delete page 57.

Stop the horrible, horrible discussion in the thread. I'll do the update tonight to give you guys something good to talk about. Unbelievable.

Screaming Idiot
Nov 26, 2007

JUST POSTING WHILE JERKIN' MY GHERKIN SITTIN' IN A PERKINS!

BEATS SELLING MERKINS.

Elentor posted:

Oh God I go to bed for two days and I find this. I wish I could just delete page 57.

Stop the horrible, horrible discussion in the thread. I'll do the update tonight to give you guys something good to talk about. Unbelievable.

Bad Elentor, bad! You do not reward them, you punish them! Lock the thread and deny updates! Have you learned nothing from The Dark Id?

cock hero flux
Apr 17, 2011



Elentor posted:

Oh God I go to bed for two days and I find this. I wish I could just delete page 57.

Stop the horrible, horrible discussion in the thread. I'll do the update tonight to give you guys something good to talk about. Unbelievable.

We've run out of things to talk about. With the big exposition thing that should come in the next update, a whole bunch more plot is open to talk about without spoiling. It ought to keep us for a few hours before we start talking about how much FF8 sucks and made no sense and is in every way a terrible game other things.

NikkolasKing
Apr 3, 2010



Elentor posted:

Oh God I go to bed for two days and I find this. I wish I could just delete page 57.

Stop the horrible, horrible discussion in the thread. I'll do the update tonight to give you guys something good to talk about. Unbelievable.

All the FFVIII talk was worth it now.

I'm definitely gonna stay up to read the next update. It's really what I've been waiting for since the LP began.

Jacobus Spades
Oct 29, 2004

My theory about FFVIII is that they had a bunch of individual scenes planned but no coherent plot to string it together. So they had to come up with something at the last minute to make into a complete story. It explains why there are all these individually cool moments and concepts while the overarching plot is garbage.

ACES CURE PLANES
Oct 21, 2010



For a sec, I thought I wandered into GameFAQs with the anti-FFVIII circlejerking. Thank God that's over.

Also, I tried the Hard Mode patch, based on what I've heard. And Jesus, it lives up to its name. Some fights are just long, extended periods of the game kicking you in the balls. And I love the pain.

Elentor
Dec 14, 2004

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS
Chapter 21 - Major Plot Exposition Time



This is the moment some of you have been dreading for, some of you have been waiting for, and some of you have no idea about.



To recap: Cloud had said "this is the real crisis of the planet" back at the Shinra HQ and for the first time he seemed invested in it and not doing for money. As such, Cloud promissed everyone he would explain what the gently caress once they had the time.



Well, now they do have the time.



There's not much to joke around in this segment, or even to talk about. It's, as the title implies, a major plot exposition, so we can sit back and enjoy the show.





Yeah Barret it's not like you're not a mass-murderer or something!






Aeris: "...one day?"

Cloud: "After the war it was SOLDIER's duty to put down any resistance against the Shinra."

Cloud: "...that was 5 years ago. I was 16..."



The guy in black is Sephiroth.

I think this is the first time you get a nice close-up at Sephiroth's five polygons.





We see an overly talkative Cloud walking around and talking.



Which is pretty weird I suppose, but he was 16.

Fanficcers start squealing in 3, 2, 1...





If only you had, you know, leveled them up, we could start the game with Bolt 2.



Cloud: "You going to brief us about this mission?"



Cloud: "Good!"

Sephiroth: "Why do you say that?"





Just so I can help guiding you through the story so far...



He's referring to the Wutai War - a war between Shinra and a whole nation. We've heard about it before twice - it was ongoing when Cloud was a kid and decided to join SOLDIER (as he just pointed out, Sephiroth was a war hero), and it's also the war that resulted in the death of Elmyra's (Aeris' adoptive mother) husband.







Sephiroth is probably going "oh no not fanboys again, Jesus Christ".



Sephiroth: "There have been reports of it malfunctioning, and producing brutal creatures."



I know we've already seen Hojo's laboratory of unpleasant surprises, but this seemed a bit more unsettling. Why would a reactor produce monsters?







Well that's convenient.



Sephiroth: "That would be our Monster..."



So we actually engage in a fight against a motherfucking Dragon.





It's actually quite funny, the Dragon kicks Cloud's rear end.



The gimmick of the fight, however, is that we cannot control Sephiroth. Instead, he just does his poo poo and proceeds to kick the dragon's rear end in a fairly one-sided fight since Cloud was the meat shield.



Yeah we kinda get that.





Stop being such a fanboy, Cloud. Aeris was giving you the chance to talk about your prowess.







Creeeeepy.






Wait

What the



Hell



:cry::cry::cry:

After that he just bursts into laughter. I'm not joking.



Mental note... don't ever talk about parents with Sephiroth again.





In the meanwhile Cloud talks to the two random guards, being nice. He teaches the guard about the SOLDIER pose and how to be cool. Seriously.



How do you imagine Mako smells like? I hope it's nothing like gasoline.








Aeris complains with Barret about him interrupting Cloud, although really, I think he is right on this one. I'd be freaking out.







:smith:



Recognize that well in the middle of the town?

That's right, that's the well from the Tifa and Cloud flashback.



You can move around the town and talk to people... it's a little eerie, to be honest.



You can also go to Tifa's house, although she's not home.



And creep the hell out of Tifa.







You're not really helping here, Cloud.



I'm imagining a Spider-Man 3esque scene with Cloud going emo and dancing while playing on the piano and it sucks.



You can actually play on the piano using the controller buttons, it's neat.



Whaaaaaaaat hahahahhaha



Best flashback ever.



Casting Christina Hendricks as Tifa for the FF7 Live action movie.



That's the "new materia" they gave to Cloud. I bet they're still laughing about it.

If you notice, Cloud's portrait drawing is different. It's a younger version of him.
It's a pretty neat detail.



Going on Cloud's house is where things get wrong.

He really, REALLY doesn't want to talk about going on in there.



All this is entirely optional of course. You could skip all these interactions by just going to the inn Sephiroth is in.


But that wouldn't be fun.



:(



Ah... the main protagonist syndrome.





:smith:



This is a really unique moment though - it's a moment in a JRPG where you get to talk to the protagonist's mother. Yes I know, Grandia, SO2, blabla, whatever.





This is a REALLY weird part. The dialogue gets cut all the time with blank screens and white flashes as if Cloud is having a nervous breakdown.



Eventually it all breaks down to Cloud's flashback when he first met Aeris, and Cloud's mom talks about him finding a new girlfriend.





Until eventually Cloud freaks out...



...and his memories start to collapse. It's very disturbing. gently caress that let's go to the inn.





We meet Zangan, Tifa's master. Fairly minor NPC, but it's easy to miss, and it's always good to get some character development and know why the hell Tifa knows how to supplexes others everything.

We talk to the attendant and he explains that ever since the reactor was built, monsters started appearing. Nothing we haven't learned. This has been going for the past 12 months.

He also explains that since the reactor was built, all the trees on the mountain withered.





Well our list of mysteries just keep getting bigger and bigger:

1) Who/what the hell is Jenova?
2) Who is Sephiroth's father?
3) How come he knows this place?



Anyway, we just get some sleep. Sephiroth explains he's hired a guide to the Mako reactor.



The creepy implication is that Sephiroth does not sleep.



The guide turns out to be Tifa.

You know, as boring as the flashback sequence is, when I first played around this part I was freaked out, because I was thinking "ok... everything is peachy, Tifa is a guide, Cloud is a SOLDIER, so really what the hell is going to happen that made them end up in Midgar as thugs?"





And by number one she means only one, the town has like 10 people living in it.

But yeah yeah JRPG town jokes blabla. But just imagine the life of a guide in Nibelheim. "So look, there used to be trees here, but since the Mako reactor was built they all withered away. Uh... THIS TOUR IS SPONSORED BY SHINRA LTD, and don't forget, kids! Mako Reactor for a better life."





:iceburn:



Memento wasn't in my English-Portuguese dictionary. It frustrated the hell out of me.



The two SOLDIERs and Tifa take a picture together. All the ingredients for a healthy fanfiction.

All things considered, that's one hell of a photo though. It could sell for thousands of bucks on their eBay equivalent years later.



And with their departure we're presented with this CG. I didn't find one on youtube without massive spoilers though.



They weren't kidding about the trees, WHERE ARE THE TREES.



Most depressive touristic attraction ever.




Next Update:

THE FLASHBACK CONTINUES.



Chapter 21 - Bugs & Bytes:

Norse Mythos

Remember how Midgar derives from Midgard, the land of humans in Norse mythologies?

Nibelheim is a bad translation for Nifelheim/Niflheim, which literally means "world of mist", one of the nine worlds from the Norse mythology, representing the world of fog, cold and ice.

Also, Midgard means quite literally Middle-Earth. And we all know how much Tolkien based Lord of the Rings almost entirely on Norse mythos.



Elentor fucked around with this message at 12:03 on Jul 5, 2011

Adus
Nov 4, 2009

heck
I always found it odd that there's a reactor in the mountains that must have been built by Shinra, but none of their own guys.. know how to get there? They have to hire a local girl for it?

Also that Zangan dude is wearing a cape. I don't trust men in capes.

YJT
Oct 27, 2010
I'm not sure I really understand the hate for this part of the game, sure it's long enough to be a bit tedious on replays but the first time through this is where the plot drew me right in, I'd been all about the flashy cut scenes and fights up until this point, once I got to this though I was hooked on the actual story and couldn't stop playing.

Adus
Nov 4, 2009

heck
This section is great the first time. Very important to the plot as it helps flesh out who Sephiroth is and shows off his strength firsthand. The hate comes from the replays where this section becomes boring because you've seen it all before and it's really just a huge infodump that you can't mash through due to the interactive parts.

MGlBlaze
May 19, 2011

Warning; side-effects include disintegrated ocular tissue.
I just reaslised how much foreshadowing there is in these sections. Some of it literally did not make sense untill I read this LP and was able to think about it completely because I wasn't actually playing.
I do like how the psychotic breakdown stuff makes sense later.


Anyway, I hated this section of the game in the flashback and I hate it when you go there for real and you have to fight a boss that used to give me all sorts of trouble. Though I do recall there being a couple of nice items there.

Hemingway To Go!
Nov 10, 2008

im stupider then dog shit, i dont give a shit, and i dont give a fuck, and i will never shut the fuck up, and i'll always Respect my enemys.
- ernest hemingway
I might be remembering things wrong or maybe I wasn't paying attention but I think I was not satisfied with the conclusion of the flashback - it didn't really grab me, which was disappointing after the nonstop thrill ride of Midgar.

Orange Fluffy Sheep
Jul 26, 2008

Bad EXP received
:eng101:

younger Cloud and Sephiroth are individual characters in the game's memory, with their own stat growths and everything, despite never gaining levels.

Sephiroth has auto-Peerless, which makes him literally invincible. Unless I'm forgetting something the only other way to get Peerless is through some of Aeris's later Limit Breaks.

The Masamune has 255% accuracy, which is shorthand for "doesn't miss", always hits critical, and has 6 linked materia slots. His Gold Armlet is a little less flashy, being just normal armor. His Touph Ring boosts Spirit and Vitality by 50, kind of pointless with his auto-Peerless. Too bad you can't touch 'em.

His materia is randomly selected and can contain Fire, Bolt, Ice, Quake, Revive, probably some other spells I'm forgetting, and All materia attached to some of the above. They're all mastered. Still can't alter any of it.

Speaking of Revive I've heard that Sephiroth is usually polite enough to revive Cloud before ending a battle with a giant storm of magic, probably to prevent problems when they split up to investigate different things so your party won't just be an alone dead Cloud.

You do have your normal inventory, but it's only accessible in battles.

ACES CURE PLANES
Oct 21, 2010



Oh boy. We're getting into the section which was the cause of numerous nightmares for me as a kid.

And that Seph v Dragon match was terrifying at the time. The music, the sword, the exxagerated sound effects, it was just very disturbing. I suppose it was the same kinda thing Cloud felt.

YJT
Oct 27, 2010

Orange Fluffy Sheep posted:

:eng101:

younger Cloud and Sephiroth are individual characters in the game's memory, with their own stat growths and everything, despite never gaining levels.

Sephiroth has auto-Peerless, which makes him literally invincible. Unless I'm forgetting something the only other way to get Peerless is through some of Aeris's later Limit Breaks.

The Masamune has 255% accuracy, which is shorthand for "doesn't miss", always hits critical, and has 6 linked materia slots. His Gold Armlet is a little less flashy, being just normal armor. His Touph Ring boosts Spirit and Vitality by 50, kind of pointless with his auto-Peerless. Too bad you can't touch 'em.

His materia is randomly selected and can contain Fire, Bolt, Ice, Quake, Revive, probably some other spells I'm forgetting, and All materia attached to some of the above. They're all mastered. Still can't alter any of it.

Speaking of Revive I've heard that Sephiroth is usually polite enough to revive Cloud before ending a battle with a giant storm of magic, probably to prevent problems when they split up to investigate different things so your party won't just be an alone dead Cloud.

You do have your normal inventory, but it's only accessible in battles.

I've been playing through a little ahead of the LP and got stuck in a loop in the dragon battle where the turn order meant the dragon would just kill me and Sephiroth would revive me. Went on for what seemed like ages.

Simply Simon
Nov 6, 2010

📡scanning🛰️ for good game 🎮design🦔🦔🦔
I didn't like it even the first time playing. I get that we need plot and backstory, but it's just SO MUCH at once. It's generally okay that they make you play a lot of it, so you can skip parts freely on repeat playthroughs, but still, that's a lot of walking around talking to the right people about stuff you already know.

My biggest gripe with giving you control, though, is that there's no gameplay benefit from it. But I'll get to that after the next update.

I guess your enjoyment completely depends on how much the plot grips you. My getting gripped though was completely dragged down by how slowly it unfolded. For giving you so many infos at once, the game sure takes its sweet time until it actually gets to the meat of this flashback - yeah, worldbuilding, yada yada, but the point is, after half an hour of this I just got BORED. And THEN the real interesting stuff starts, but it's already far too late for that, because my short-term memory knows that I haven't been enjoying myself for the last 15 minutes at least, and that sullies the whole thing.

MGlBlaze
May 19, 2011

Warning; side-effects include disintegrated ocular tissue.

YJT posted:

I've been playing through a little ahead of the LP and got stuck in a loop in the dragon battle where the turn order meant the dragon would just kill me and Sephiroth would revive me. Went on for what seemed like ages.

It seems odd to me that you got stuck in a loop for that long; I remember from some of my playthroughs that the dragon can (and does) attack Sephiroth... if you really were stuck for ages the game probably glitched out quite badly.

Elentor
Dec 14, 2004

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS

MGlBlaze posted:

It seems odd to me that you got stuck in a loop for that long; I remember from some of my playthroughs that the dragon can (and does) attack Sephiroth... if you really were stuck for ages the game probably glitched out quite badly.

It happens from time to time. It's random.

YJT
Oct 27, 2010

MGlBlaze posted:

It seems odd to me that you got stuck in a loop for that long; I remember from some of my playthroughs that the dragon can (and does) attack Sephiroth... if you really were stuck for ages the game probably glitched out quite badly.

I say ages, Sephiroth can kill the thing in 2 hits, the battle lasted between 10 and 20 rounds, thankfully this playthrough was on an emulator so I could speed it up. Think it was just chance that it went for me every time and the turn order meant sephiroth didn't queue up any attacks for a while.

TKMobile
Apr 30, 2009

Adus posted:

I always found it odd that there's a reactor in the mountains that must have been built by Shinra, but none of their own guys.. know how to get there? They have to hire a local girl for it?

Also that Zangan dude is wearing a cape. I don't trust men in capes.

Funnily enough, Zangan's voice actor in some of Compilation is none other than Hiroshi Fujioka, the original Kamen Rider 1. Which is a few flavors of awesome right there. Unfortunately Tifa never Rider Kicks anyone...I think. :/

As for the reactor... maybe the local Shinra experts *were* eaten by monsters? Some giant dragon getting three or four of Shinra's Mako engineers would be enough to light a fire under it, sending some of their best troops to go mop the floor with the ghouls post-haste.

TKMobile fucked around with this message at 14:43 on Jul 1, 2011

Saradiart
Dec 13, 2009

OPENING MY TAI CHI IS ABOUT AS APPEALING AS THE GOATMAN OPENING HIS ANUS
Mako probably smells earthy. With a little touch of death. Probably inspires nostalgia.

Pesky Splinter
Feb 16, 2011

A worried pug.
I think it smells of ozone. Just because.

Admiral H. Curtiss
May 11, 2010

I think there are a bunch of people who can create trailing images. I know some who could do this as if they were just going out for a stroll.

YJT posted:

I've been playing through a little ahead of the LP and got stuck in a loop in the dragon battle where the turn order meant the dragon would just kill me and Sephiroth would revive me. Went on for what seemed like ages.

Cloud: The dragon killed me. The next thing I remember is Sephiroth reviving me, then the dragon killed me again. Sephiroth survived me again, then the dragon killed me again, then I got revived again, and killed...
Barret: C'mon Cloud, get to the point!


Anyway, while I don't really like FFVII's overall plot, I can't deny that the Nibelheim Incident and the related things are very well done.

General Specific
Jun 22, 2007

I had one of those, but the front wheel fell off and I had to get rid of it.

Pesky Splinter posted:

I think it smells of ozone. Just because.

It smells like ozone, but slightly minty.

This update reminded me of that one specific animation where Cloud and Sephiroth (possibly others, I forget)
-Laugh
-Laugh with hand on forehead
-Head tilted back psychotic laugh
-Slow head shake

It's been a long time since I played FF7, but I seem to remember it being used about fifty times or more over the course of the game.

YJT
Oct 27, 2010

Admiral H. Curtiss posted:

Anyway, while I don't really like FFVII's overall plot, I can't deny that the Nibelheim Incident and the related things are very well done.

I like that this part sets it up as the foundation to the plot then there are callbacks to it later in the game that further cement this as the beginning of the tale, kind of like how stories are meant to be written, it's similar to the Bodhum bit in FF XIII except done competently.

Schwartzcough
Aug 12, 2009

Don't tease the Octopus, kids!
I don't quite get the flashback hate either. The only real difference between the flashback and the rest of the game is you aren't gaining experience and "loot." The beginning parts of this game would frequently have you go through "battle areas" where you might get in one fight, followed by 45 minutes of talking to people and cutscenes. After your first playthough you know everything in the story, so it's not like the flashback is a particularly bad offender of making you sit through stuff you already know- the entire storyline portion of the game does the same thing.

Edit: As an example, let's compare. You just fought the boss in the second reactor. Boss explodes, Cloud falls into the slums. You meet Aeris and talk for a while. Goons show up. If you know what you're doing, this portion will have no battles. You agree to escort her home. This involves going through an area you will probably not fight anything in, then through a town to explore, then to her house to meet her mom, then sneak out and meet Aeris again. You go through a super-short area that might get one battle. More cutscene talk. You see Tifa go towards Wall Market. You follow her and engage in a long process of cross-dressing Cloud and getting into the Mansion. You extract information, and finally get dumped into the sewers for a boss fight.

That's about two hours of gameplay with maybe ONE battle. None of it is new on a second playthrough.

Schwartzcough fucked around with this message at 15:51 on Jul 1, 2011

Chump Farts
May 9, 2009

There is no Coordinator but Narduzzi, and Shilique is his Prophet.
I kind of enjoyed the flashback for my second playthrough at least because I knew to look for some interesting things and it was really interesting to see all the little details that were put in that make you go "ooooh" later. Cool stuff.

Chard
Aug 24, 2010




Elentor posted:

Oh God I go to bed for two days and I find this. I wish I could just delete page 57.

Stop the horrible, horrible discussion in the thread. I'll do the update tonight to give you guys something good to talk about. Unbelievable.

Locking the thread between updates would cut down the noise, and would be a move I would applaud.

Scalding Coffee
Jun 26, 2006

You're already dead
The piano has a number of objects that fall out if you spend enough time on it. I don't know if it is random. One of them is really good.

testtubebaby
Apr 7, 2008

Where we're going,
we won't need eyes to see.


Scalding Coffee posted:

The piano has a number of objects that fall out if you spend enough time on it. I don't know if it is random. One of them is really good.

This happens when you visit Nibelheim much later in the game.

Thranguy
Apr 21, 2010


Deceitful and black-hearted, perhaps we are. But we would never go against the Code. Well, perhaps for good reasons. But mostly never.
I'm playing (more-or-less) along, and did this part a few nights ago. I missed the piano this time, but I did find another thing in Tifa's house to interact with that you didn't do: the letter on her desk. Which was really interesting; surprised to see you skip it.

Joebungaloe
Apr 3, 2007

TL posted:

It's pretty easy to find on YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DeWOF6Mlc48&feature=related

I think we were looking forward to Elentor talking over the fight when he did it, as opposed to the videos from youtube, but I can see where it wasn't clear.

At least, I know thats what *I* was excited about... can't speak for anyone else.

Schwartzcough
Aug 12, 2009

Don't tease the Octopus, kids!

Thranguy posted:

I'm playing (more-or-less) along, and did this part a few nights ago. I missed the piano this time, but I did find another thing in Tifa's house to interact with that you didn't do: the letter on her desk. Which was really interesting; surprised to see you skip it.

I've been playing through again also, and I found that letter for the first time this go-round. It was kind of interesting, and I wonder if it would've had a bit more meaning if this whole game was translated better.

some bust on that guy
Jan 21, 2006

This avatar was paid for by the Silent Majority.

Elentor posted:

Chapter 21 - Major Plot Exposition I - Part 1



This is the moment some of you have been dreading for, some of you have been waiting for, and some of you have no idea about.

Dreading? This is the last time the story of the game is really really good and engrossing for a long time.

I always look forward to this part on replays and am usually bored afterwards.

NikkolasKing
Apr 3, 2010



Super Ninja Fish posted:

Dreading? This is the last time the story of the game is really really good and engrossing for a long time.

I always look forward to this part on replays and am usually bored afterwards.

Agreed with this. For reasons that we can't go into for like, 100 pages, this is simply one of the best moments in the game's plot and it's a drat shame the later story fails to utilize it properly.

Renoistic
Jul 27, 2007

Everyone has a
guardian angel.
This part really pulled me in when I first played it. It's creepy, mysterious and full of unanswered questions. Not to mention playable, which is a major plus in my book. This LP keeps reminding me why I consider FF7 to be the best FF (OK, in the top three, at least).

sc0ttmst
Nov 23, 2010

NikkolasKing posted:

Agreed with this. For reasons that we can't go into for like, 100 pages, this is simply one of the best moments in the game's plot and it's a drat shame the later story fails to utilize it properly.
I always thought this way too. Although, I do find it painful to play after, like, the sixth time through.

Concordat
Mar 4, 2007

Secondary Objective: Commit Fraud - Complete

Elentor posted:

Chapter 16 - Obligatory Puzzle Dungeon

Hey I'm here to fix the elevator, thanks for handing me this super-specious top-security card that only a few very select people are supposed to have.

This was awhile ago, but I have to say, you'd be surprised how far you could get by simply pretending you're supposed to be there. I recall some security expert would have his face printed on a laminated card with the AT&T logo, and claim he is there to check the phones, and so many times people would let him through security. Even though AT&T doesn't even do that anymore.

And I remember reading about another incident where someone just left some flash drives in an employee parking lot. Employees would pick them up, think "hey free thumb drive" and use them on their work computer, and get a virus.

The human element is pretty much always the weakest part of a security system.

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cock hero flux
Apr 17, 2011



Concordat posted:

This was awhile ago, but I have to say, you'd be surprised how far you could get by simply pretending you're supposed to be there. I recall some security expert would have his face printed on a laminated card with the AT&T logo, and claim he is there to check the phones, and so many times people would let him through security. Even though AT&T doesn't even do that anymore.

And I remember reading about another incident where someone just left some flash drives in an employee parking lot. Employees would pick them up, think "hey free thumb drive" and use them on their work computer, and get a virus.

The human element is pretty much always the weakest part of a security system.

There's a difference between letting someone with a dodgy security pass because he tells you he's supposed to be there, and letting a man wearing an elite military uniform and his friend with a machinegun grafted onto his arm in because you assume that they're here to fix the elevator.

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