Register a SA Forums Account here!
JOINING THE SA FORUMS WILL REMOVE THIS BIG AD, THE ANNOYING UNDERLINED ADS, AND STUPID INTERSTITIAL ADS!!!

You can: log in, read the tech support FAQ, or request your lost password. This dumb message (and those ads) will appear on every screen until you register! Get rid of this crap by registering your own SA Forums Account and joining roughly 150,000 Goons, for the one-time price of $9.95! We charge money because it costs us money per month for bills, and since we don't believe in showing ads to our users, we try to make the money back through forum registrations.
 
  • Post
  • Reply
Ray_
Sep 15, 2005

It was like the Colosseum in Rome and we were the Christians." - Bobby Dodd, on playing at LSU's Tiger Stadium
Jhaqo is the khal that finds Dany at the end of the book. Last we saw Jhaqo, back in AGOT, Dany was swearing an oath regarding him:

Dany in AGOT posted:

"Eroeh?" asked Dany, remembering the frightened child she had saved outside the city of the Lamb
Men.
"Mago seized her, who is Khal Jhaqo's bloodrider now," said Jhogo. "He mounted her high and low and
gave her to his khal, and Jhaqo gave her to his other bloodriders. They were six. When they were done
with her, they cut her throat."
"It was her fate, Khaleesi," said Aggo.
If I look back I am lost. (SHUT UP SHUT UP SHUT UP) "It was a cruel fate," Dany said, "yet not so cruel as Mago's will be. I promise you that, by the old gods and the new, by the lamb god and the horse god and every god that lives. I swear it by the Mother of Mountains and the Womb of the World. Before I am done with them, Mago and Ko Jhaqo will plead for the mercy they showed Eroeh."

First seen in next book will obviously be Drogon picking pieces of Jhaqo out of his teeth while Dany gives another "You are now mine!" speech.

What the gently caress does she do from there, though? Dothraki still hate the ocean.

I guess getting another barbarian horde fulfills the "to go forward you must go back" instructions that Quaithe gave her.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Mr. Grumpybones
Apr 18, 2002
"We're falling out of the sky! We're going down! We're a silver gleaming death machine!"
I believe the copy I got must be short some pages as this book lacks an ending. Can someone confirm how many pages the US edition should have?

The copy of AFFC that I ordered 6 years ago had the same problem.

Dirty postman playing tricks, no doubt.

Ogmius815
Aug 25, 2005
centrism is a hell of a drug

Mr. Grumpybones posted:

I believe the copy I got must be short some pages as this book lacks an ending. Can someone confirm how many pages the US edition should have?

The copy of AFFC that I ordered 6 years ago had the same problem.

Dirty postman playing tricks, no doubt.

If the last chapter isn't an epilogue, you're missing pages. Unless your joking because haha cliffhangers, in which case welp.

Aurubin
Mar 17, 2011

I think Barristan is going to die of dysentery, it would be a sadly ironic end to a man who wants to go out fighting. Flinging diseased corpses was a standard tactic back in the day, but I think this way it makes it personal.

So what's Dany's disposition assuming she ever makes it to Westeros? Khal Jhoqo's horde (maybe), Victarion's fleet, 1 dragon, the Unsullied, and a dwarf with a talent for flipping mercenaries.

I guess the 6th book will be about her finally getting her rear end to Westeros, and everybody dying cause they have no food, while the 7th will be about Bran forming a tree megazord to fight a giant Hodor wight.

This is of course idle speculation because these books are never coming out.

GoodluckJonathan
Oct 31, 2003

Denzer posted:

This is a book about food, eating, and fat people.

It's true there are multiple characters referred to as the "Lord of Suet"

threeagainstfour
Jun 27, 2005


J.K. Rowling's "A Song of Ice and Fire."

Edit: Real content, just got to the chapter where Jon beheads Janos Slynt. That was an awesome scene and a long time coming for that fucker.

threeagainstfour fucked around with this message at 03:29 on Jul 14, 2011

User0015
Nov 24, 2007

Please don't talk about your sexuality unless it serves the ~narrative~!
I am popping into this thread for one specific question.

Are there Arya chapters?

The Sex Cannon
Nov 22, 2004

Eh. I'm pretty content with my current logo.
/\/\/\Look upon what has been posted here and find thine answer!

I have no idea how to feel about what I just read.

Theon = Great
Tyrion = SHUT UP SHUT UP SHUT UP
Dany/Asha = No more awkward sex scenes, please. "I couldn't tell who was in who" HERE'S A HINT, HE'S IN YOU.
Barristan/Manderly = :coal:
Jon = :ohdear:
Quentyn = poo poo sucks, you fag.
Niello = I had no idea what this was before this book, but thanks to GURM mentioning it 50 times, I now know. Thanks, big guy!

I felt all the comebackers from Feast for Crows should have been in FfC. Maybe not Cersei's stuff, but definitely Victarion's and Arya's. Dany's and Tyrion's lack of progress was really getting to me, though. Jon and Theon's chapters were great, and I really like Mel's perspective. I get the impression that individual Red Priests are pretty much fishing for anyone who can remotely be connected with AA, and are not centralized at all.

However, the way things went in this book, if it comes down to a fight between men and the Others, my money is on those baby blues, because our team just can not get it together.

Party Plane Jones
Jul 1, 2007

by Reene
Fun Shoe
I have to say, the differing chapter names per viewpoint are annoying as all hell.

So It Goes
Feb 18, 2011

User0015 posted:

I am popping into this thread for one specific question.

Are there Arya chapters?

Yes.

bengraven
Sep 17, 2009

by VideoGames
All right, well after my two week vacation from the Book Barn to stay away from spoilers (I only had Jon and Martell dying spoiled for me), here's my take on the book:

Everything In Essos: was really getting loving boring. I hated how we got another city-state with it's own pseudo-African/Arabian government in place and how we had to have that loving described to us.

The First Half: was actually really loving good with the exception of what I just said above. I loved Tyrion's trip down the river: I actually felt that he will someday look back at those times fondly and as some of the happiest of his life. I liked Jon getting his people provisioned and I actually enjoyed Theon's chapters this time, despite how much you wanted to yell in his face "don't loving go nuts, keep it together, you can get through this". The first half of the book was as strong as the second half of Storm to me and I know that makes me look bad, but I feel it's true.

Second Half: really loving boring at times. Like skimming to get to the next chapter, like Brienne in Feast boring. Especially Mereen. GET THE gently caress OUT OF MEREEN. I'm sick of everyone's backstabbing and stubborness and "are they leaving or are they going to siege the city". There are a couple exceptions, but I hated the second half. Jon: you're making missteps - this is the reason I hated the Cersei chapters in Feast because I don't like reading from the POV of someone who is making a ton of mistakes.

(That said, I felt it picked up in the last few chapters)

So by chapter POVS:

Jon: Loved him killing Slynt and getting ready for winter and loved to see Tormund back and them having a slightly edgier respect and possible friendship for each other again. Hated how the second half of his story was basically everyone turning on him though it made sense after they ganked him. I got bored of hearing the same old "the Queen hates me, I'm supposed to marry Val, we need more men".

Barristan: best chapters of the book, hands down.

Dany: oh gently caress you. gently caress Mereen. gently caress the feeling of his cock going erect in your hands. I hate Mereen, get the gently caress out. The last chapter was okay...bleeding might mean she can have kids now, kept expecting her to come upon a lion or something and have to fight it. Seriously. The part with the Dothraki scout coming from the grass was pretty cool and tense and I liked the ending cliffhanger moment. Will be cool on screen.

Tyrion: my second favorite set of POVs. Some chapters were bogged down by the complaints I've lodged already, but when his mouth opened it was worth it. The auction scene reminded me a lot of the Aerie confession scene. I loved the boat scenes. I liked the contrast of him and Penny, how he just wants to say "listen you little bitch, I'm rich and powerful back home and I can gently caress any tall whore I want, why do you think I belong by your side, scraping and bowing and letting tall people poo poo on me? Get some loving pride". The Jorah reveal (actually figured it out when he said "I was a lord once and shamed my father") was pretty cool and despite them squabbling, he and Jorah remind me a bit of him and Bronn and I liked that.

Martell: Oh gently caress Quentyn. I pictured him as Martin Freeman. Nerd. That said, the very last scene in his last chapter was one of my favorites. The dragons rising up and sniffing around him, then blasting him with fire would be a cool scene on screen.

Theon: Liked them a lot. Still not sure if I forgive him, but I think he needs to do some redeemable things before he dies. Felt bad for him when he finally came to the realization and let himself admit that he just wanted to be a Stark all along. It was actually kind of sad. Not completely pathetic, but yeah.

Arya: Wow, all the loving bitching and she was only blind for one chapter. The face scene was awesome. I'm not sure how much farther she should go though. What's the point of a Stark who's basically a paid hitman? What's that do for her story arc?

Bran: I wish we had more, these are tied for my favorites. Bloodraven reveal was a "told you so"...cool to see one of my more obscure theories turn out correct.

Connington: good, Aegon reveal was an actual shock...that was the one theory I thought was the least likely to happen and it did.

Asha/Victarion: short. I liked Victarion's second chapter basically being him clicking off his fleet's numbers and his burgeoning friendship with the red priest and maybe accepting the Red God. Asha's last chapter was good.

Cersei/Jaime: would have liked more OR they could have put these chapters in Feast.

Epilogue: Pycelle was a shock, but he had to die eventually...I knew they were going to kill Kevan the second he got his own epilogue and was wandering alone in the cold between scenes. It sucked though: after re-reading the series I really started to like Kevan, even pissed they made his character a sniveling Star Wars villain in the TV series. But Mace being in charge of the realm is more dramatic I suppose.

Wait...is this the "Bad" thread? If so let me know so I can replace my mini-review with "wildcards rape lemoncakes" or something.

bengraven fucked around with this message at 05:10 on Jul 14, 2011

Liquid Communism
Mar 9, 2004


Out here, everything hurts.




There is no more Bad Thread just now. Only Dany, endlessly drinking and making GBS threads.

Saltpowered
Apr 12, 2010

Chief Executive Officer
Awful Industries, LLC

Ray_ posted:


I'm not convinced he's Azor Ahai though. I guess the bloody Dallas Cowboys cloak the knight had on could be the red star bleeding, but where's the salt and smoke?


Salt: "Then Bowen Marsh stood before him, tears running down his cheeks."

Smoke: "In the cold night air the wound was smoking."

Thoguh
Nov 8, 2002

College Slice

Liquid Communism posted:

There is no more Bad Thread just now. Only Dany, endlessly drinking and making GBS threads.

and loving.

(USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)

Ray_
Sep 15, 2005

It was like the Colosseum in Rome and we were the Christians." - Bobby Dodd, on playing at LSU's Tiger Stadium

bengraven posted:

Felt bad for him when he finally came to the realization and let himself admit that he just wanted to be a Stark all along. It was actually kind of sad. Not completely pathetic, but yeah.

That conversation was pretty awesome I thought. How Lady Dustin and Theon both had it in common of wanting to be Starks but not being able, and how they both have completely different ways of reacting to it.

Lawlicaust posted:

Salt: "Then Bowen Marsh stood before him, tears running down his cheeks."

Smoke: "In the cold night air the wound was smoking."

It's possible, I suppose. Not that far off from funeral pyre + tears for Dany, but way far away from Dragonstone as a birth place.

Maester Aemon used to think that Rhaegar was the Prince that was Promised, saying that the smoke was the fire that devoured Summerhall on the night of his birth and the salt was the tears shed for those lost in the tragedy. Pretty much exactly the same as the above two.

It'd be nice if the prophecy said something like "born amongst smoke and salt, by the way when I say salt I mean tears hope that helps avoid any confusion!"

A Typical Goon
Feb 25, 2011
Anyone else feel like Jon's 'death' was a homeage to the assassination of Caesar? The whole "for the Watch" thing reminds me of the senators killing Caesar for the good of Rome, and the whole surronding him and stabbing him. Anyone else see this?

Ray_
Sep 15, 2005

It was like the Colosseum in Rome and we were the Christians." - Bobby Dodd, on playing at LSU's Tiger Stadium
Holy poo poo, I just had an awesome thought: what if Daario is one of the corpses being flung over the walls from the trebuchets??? Oh my god please make it so.

Dany wouldn't shut the gently caress up about Daario even in the last chapter of the book, goddamnit.

I mean, it's like Kate Middleton falling in love with a mid-level coke dealer from Columbia or something. Bad analogy, I just can't think of someone as scummy as Daario.

Oh, wait I got a good one: Princess Elizabeth starts loving and falls in love with the leader of a mercenary force that stopped working for Nazi Germany and started working for England in April 1945. He probably has 20 Interpol warrants out for him, along with a high probability of carrying more than one sexual transmitted disease. Dude has a blinged out grill, and has 20's on his whip. Oh, and she's quite open about it all.

Can you imagine that happening?

It's very much like Tyrion bringing Shae to court. Neither has any redeeming characteristics beyond being attractive, and are in fact despicable human beings. Even then, dude has a loving gold tooth and blue hair.

Gaussian
Sep 20, 2001

I'll give you a box of chocolates if you kill me.




Nap Ghost

bengraven posted:

Bran: I wish we had more, these are tied for my favorites. Bloodraven reveal was a "told you so"...cool to see one of my more obscure theories turn out correct.
I actually enjoyed Bran's chapters this time, but what's the Bloodraven reveal you're talking about? I probably read his last (most important) chapter at about 4:00 in the morning, so my memory is hazy. I looked at the Tower of the Hand and all it mentions is some bastard Targ and right now I really don't see any connection between that and Bran.
Still processing a lot of what happened, but overall I must say everyone is right about Dany needing to get the gently caress out of Mereen and get her head on straight, jesus.

Ray_
Sep 15, 2005

It was like the Colosseum in Rome and we were the Christians." - Bobby Dodd, on playing at LSU's Tiger Stadium

A Typical Goon posted:

Anyone else feel like Jon's 'death' was a homeage to the assassination of Caesar? The whole "for the Watch" thing reminds me of the senators killing Caesar for the good of Rome, and the whole surronding him and stabbing him. Anyone else see this?
I don't know if it'd a homage if it was an actual real life event, but yeah I think it was mentioned earlier. It definitely has that vibe to it, despite feeling very haphazard in planning and execution.

Ray_ fucked around with this message at 06:53 on Jul 14, 2011

Rednik
Apr 10, 2005


Gaussian posted:

I actually enjoyed Bran's chapters this time, but what's the Bloodraven reveal you're talking about? I probably read his last (most important) chapter at about 4:00 in the morning, so my memory is hazy. I looked at the Tower of the Hand and all it mentions is some bastard Targ and right now I really don't see any connection between that and Bran.
Still processing a lot of what happened, but overall I must say everyone is right about Dany needing to get the gently caress out of Mereen and get her head on straight, jesus.

In some of the previous books and the Dunk & Egg short stories, Gurm offered hints about what happened to Brynden "Bloodraven" Rivers, who was the Hand of the King but ruled the 7 kingdoms with spells and sorcery. He supposedly had a thousand eyes and one, but ended up being sent from the black cells to the Wall, where he became Lord Commander. Some people speculated that he was indeed the Three-Eyed Crow, and it ended up being right.

Master Kush
Aug 8, 2007

About half way through and I gotta say Daenerys is an idiot. God drat grrm wrote a character about a retarded girl.

Insurrectionist
May 21, 2007
Man, this book would have been a lot better if it wasn't for all the loving about in Meereen. Like Storm good. But every Daenerys chapter was poo poo, every Tyrion chapter after Volantis was poo poo, Quentyn started out intriguing but both him and his story turned out to be stupid as poo poo (it accomplished nothing other than establish that Doran wanted a Targ on the throne, just kill him offscreen and have the dragons escape when the Meereenese nobles try to kill them instead) and Victarion chapters, while ok this book, doesn't even get there by the end. Barristan was the only redeeming factor there.

I don't really have strong feelings about the whole Aegon plot. Yeah having him be alive feels a bit too twisty and the kid is basically perfect except for being too brash, but I thought most of the other characters were interesting. More importantly, holy poo poo did it feel nice to finally have a plot that actually goes somewhere, and characters that do something. From sailing a riverboat on the Rhoyne with like 6 dudes to already invading the Stormlands in 3/4ths of a book? This kid could teach his aunt something.

The Jaime/Cersei/Arya chapters felt really unnecessary, because they were very few and I didn't see any huge need to include them in this book instead of the next. Jaime's chapter was literally just tying up a book 4 cliffhanger and then giving us a new one in the same scene for no apparent reason. I'm pretty sure Cersei's chapters were only included because GRRM needed her out and about for the epilogue, so that the Tyrells would suspect her and she had the opportunity to suspect them.

I liked the chapters in the North a lot for the most part. Bran could have had more chapters, and Jon seemed fairly different at first though I was used to it after a few chapters. Ignoring any meta-level discussion of Jon getting stabbed, like if it's a stupid cliffhanger like Arya goes blind/has to do with the whole Azor Ahai prophecy or whatever, the only decent explanation I can think of for the stewards stabbing him is Melisandre made them do it to fulfill a prophecy or they are literally so dumb as to be retarded. They just let in six or seven times as many wildlings as there are night's watch/knights at the wall, the vast majority of the wildlings supported Jon and/or his plans, and their leaders are all gathered around the scene, and the only motivations for doing it could be A: letting wildlings through (In which case they're all dead as poo poo because there are a fuckton of wildlings around, which wouldn't improve their status quo at all) or B: because he was leaving for winterfell (Which would be legitimate, but a really really stupid as gently caress reason to risk fighting with the wildlings over given that they could just brand him a deserter and quitely vote for a new commander once he was gone. If they needed him dead they could easily have picked a more opportune and less public moment.)

Wyman Manderly was the best character in the book, though Alys Karstark was pretty close going by how many pages they appeared in (Sup, just a 16 year old girl fleeing hundreds of miles on my own, please murder my uncle if he shows btw. Now where's this Magnar of Thenn guy, he's got a lot of men and it looks like he'll piss his pants around me, wanna marry that dude).

I got "spoiled" (half was right half not) on the end of Jon/Dany's stories but I found I didn't really care - Dany's chapters were poo poo anyway and I couldn't care less, getting spoiled about Jon's death just made his chapters more interesting trying to spot potential killers (guessing the night's watch wasn't too hard, though the situation was suprising given how mind-numbingly stupid it seemed).

Rainbow Unicorn
Aug 4, 2004

Well I finished the book about 20 minutes ago. I wish Bran and Davos's POVs hadn't suddenly stopped so early on. And I wish Melisandre had more chapters. I did like that he straight up used her name in her chapter heading, sort of implying that she is a "real" pov and not a "temporary" one and may get more chapters in TWOW.

The cliffhangers in this one aren't quite as bad as AFFC's were either, I don't think. The worst ones are all to do with Jon's plot. Obviously Melisandre won't actually let Jon die but I have no idea if Stannis is dead or not. Obviously not everything Ramsay wrote was true, he doesn't have Asha, Theon or Jeyne, but he definitely does have Mance. And Jaime and Brienne I guess counts as a cliffhanger but at least it's not quite as cheap as the one in AFFC. Pod wasn't with her was he :ohdear:

I didn't like Tyrion's early chapters but liked his later ones (it seems most people disagree with me there.) Generally frustrated by GRRM constantly cockteasing with "WILL TYRION GET TO DANY? WILL HE NOT? OH LOOK SHE SAVED HIM FROM LIONS AND THEY TECHNICALLY SAW EACH OTHER IN PERSON TEE HEE" and so on. Just get Tyrion to Dany already, maybe he can talk some loving sense into her (probably not) (but at least he actually knows things about dragons.)

Speaking of Dany, frustrating as her bullshit is, it was sort of nice to see her suffering serious consequences for being loving retarded instead of just watching her skate by or whatever. No idea what to think of her ending. It WAS nice to see her riding a dragon finally, I'll admit. I'm not even going to start trying to apply the events of ADWD to all her different prophecies yet.

Arya is awesome, I don't even care that she spent another entire book in training, it was still awesome.

I was completely shocked that he killed Quentyn. Definitely did not see that coming, not even when I read the end of his last chapter. It took the first line of Barristan's next chapter for it to sink in that yes, he actually did kill Quentyn.

Also completely shocked by Varys at the end. Wow.

Overall loved the book, Jon plot was my favorite, I will admit that ADWD is so far the most creepy book in terms of both creepy sex scenes and creepy magic starting to crop up everywhere. There's so much magic in this book it felt like reading a completely different series sometimes, but I guess to be fair that was foreshadowed to hell and back in AFFC.

I really wish Bran's plot hadn't just ENDED where it did.

Okay I'm done now.

NihilCredo
Jun 6, 2011

iram omni possibili modo preme:
plus una illa te diffamabit, quam multæ virtutes commendabunt

Insurrectionist posted:

Wyman Manderly was the best character in the book, though Alys Karstark was pretty close going by how many pages they appeared in (Sup, just a 16 year old girl fleeing hundreds of miles on my own, please murder my uncle if he shows btw. Now where's this Magnar of Thenn guy, he's got a lot of men and it looks like he'll piss his pants around me, wanna marry that dude).
The kickass women of the North definitely deserve more screen time. I was happy that we got to meet another member of Clan Mormont too.

I can't quite figure out why Alys got married by Rh'llor rites. The old gods have no priests and so shouldn't need one to hold a marriage, and abandoning them could only annoy both her husband and the men of Karhold.

e: Nevermind, I forgot the first group of wildlings was force-converted to Rh'llor. I thought it was a sham, but apparently at least the Thenns kept their word.

NihilCredo fucked around with this message at 09:40 on Jul 14, 2011

dumb brunette
Mar 17, 2009

I admire man's ability to see beauty in everything! Even a flame!
Agh holy christ, where is The Winds of Winter, why isn't it out right loving now, I need to know what happens.

Also, why is Uncle Kev dead :(

I'm really dissatisfied with Bran's plot ending where it did partly because I was sure he had 4 chapters planned originally, one of them must have gotten bumped into TWOW. I figure TWOW is going to be Bran's plot-heavy book (loving FINALLY) and I've only been waiting for him to do something interesting since he had that dream way back when.

I found myself really interested in Melisandre, actually, I fully expect her to be a returning POV in TWOW. Also really actually loved Theon's chapters even if the first few made me feel like I needed to take a shower, when he turned up in the one Asha chapter I cheered. I hope they band together to fight crime (and pronounce the Kingsmoot as unlawful or whatever Asha's plan was).

There's no way Jon is dead and I have no loving idea where Dany's plotline is going to go from here but good god, no wonder Meereen was the situation that held up this book for so long, that plotline is the stuff of nightmares. It was great to finally see Dany suffering a bit and facing some actual hard decisions and making some actual mistakes, but jesus christ.

This book can basically be summarized as "nothing went how I expected," I stumbled across the list of chapter titles before reading the book and when I read what Quentyn's last chapter was called, I was expecting more "and then he was victorious and Dany married him" and less "and then he lit on fire." Similar situation with Barristan, though obviously less "holy gently caress, that isn't what I was expecting at all."

I was surprised to see Tyrion's acrobatics make a return, I really thought GRRM had kind of tucked them away as "was in the original plan but is now irrelevant."

I still can't stand stupid-rear end Victarion but I found Asha's chapters way easier to swallow this time, which just proves that Victarion makes everything else boring and awful by association. Can't wait until he's with Dany, he'll make me hate her plot after it's finally turned a little bit tolerable!

I'm pretty sure Davos is going to end up (another finally) being our window into whatever the jesus gently caress Rickon is doing, too, which will be nice.

And Wyman Manderly is officially my favorite loving secondary character, what an awesome dude.

EDIT: Also personally I hope Baby Aegon ends up being a giant red herring, or even that he's not actually baby Aegon but is some imposter raised to be a puppet king.

dumb brunette fucked around with this message at 09:59 on Jul 14, 2011

Cake Attack
Mar 26, 2010

That one scene where Barristan mentions that Aerys wanted Tywin's wife makes me think that Tyrion may actually be a secret Targ, and I'm going to be disappointed if that happens because I always thought it was kind of a dumb theory. But whatever.

I enjoyed the book, more than most people I gather from reading the thread, although who knows where the consensus will be after some time has passed. I didn't mind the Meereen as much as some people, mainly because I enjoyed seeing Dany struggle with actually ruling. Still, it would have been even better if she had never even talked about Daario. Seriously, gently caress Daario. Also, Barristan was awesome, and Barristan being in charge was even better.

Was Jon Connington ever mentioned before, or is he an entirely new character?

whowhatwhere
Mar 15, 2010

SHINee's back
Just ripping this from Tower of the Hand:

quote:

Third Hand of the King to King Aerys II Targaryen.
Lord Jon was a close friend of Prince Rhaegar Targaryen, leading King Aerys II Targaryen to make him Hand after Lord Owen Merryweather had failed to contain what became Robert's Rebellion. (ASOS 9) He managed to corner Robert Baratheon at the town of Stoney Sept and began a house to house search for the rebel lord. Lords Eddard Stark and Hoster Tully showed up during the search, and Jon lost the subsequent battle, called the Battle of the Bells because the septons rang the bells of the town to warn the townsfolk to stay indoors. Jon personally killed Ser Denys Arryn during the battle. (ASOS 30) After his defeat, Lord Jon was stripped of his titles and exiled by Aerys. (ASOS 38)Lord Jon died penniless in exile. (ACOK 4)

dumb brunette
Mar 17, 2009

I admire man's ability to see beauty in everything! Even a flame!
Jon Connington is also mentioned a few times in various Jaime povs, occasionally referred to as "the griffin" and once by name somewhere in AFFC.

Cake Attack posted:

That one scene where Barristan mentions that Aerys wanted Tywin's wife makes me think that Tyrion may actually be a secret Targ, and I'm going to be disappointed if that happens because I always thought it was kind of a dumb theory. But whatever.

Also I agree with this, it makes me worried GRRM is going there and Tyrion being a secret Targ is the one theory I've clung to being not true because it ruins all deeper meaning of his relationship with Tywin :(

dumb brunette fucked around with this message at 12:53 on Jul 14, 2011

Aurubin
Mar 17, 2011

I think he might run into another Meerenese knot here for TWoW, this time in the form of resolving Sansa's plot. I can't fathom how Littlefinger will factor into the current political situation, especially with the return of Aegon.

I get that Aegon is the mummer's dragon, so this means GRRM has been planning this for years. Convoluted plotline to say the least.

NihilCredo
Jun 6, 2011

iram omni possibili modo preme:
plus una illa te diffamabit, quam multæ virtutes commendabunt

Did anyone get the feeling that Jon might have been batting for the other team, and pining over lost/unrequited love more than friendship?

Jon's reminiscences of Rhaegar sounded like they came from a teenage romance novel, all that waxing poetic about his beautiful hair and eyes, and when Haldon suggested that he marry I felt that his reaction didn't come only from the greyscale (not to mention that he apparently never married before, despite the fact that he couldn't have been that young when he went into exile).

Catiline
Jan 3, 2008
Am I the only one who was happy to see Wex alive?

Decius
Oct 14, 2005

Ramrod XTreme
I don't think that was pig meat Coldhands fed Bran & Company during the early book...

Even if, there is a drat lot of cannibalism in this book. Eating humans - the new rape?

Hemp Knight
Sep 26, 2004
Finished the book last night, and while it was better than AFFC, it's still got some major weaknesses.

- The Jon and Dany chapters really didn't advance at all. I thought that by the end of this book, we'd have seen a massive army of wights and Others (who've turned thousands of the defeated wildlings into wights) attack and overrun the Wall as winter arrives in full force, and Dany would have finally sorted out Meereen and trained her dragons once Tyrion arrived, letting her set sail for Westeros.

- Bran/Arya. I suppose they needed to progress rapidly for the next book, but having them learn as much as they did in just a couple of chapters each didn't feel natural at all.

- Davos. Great to see him again (Stannis doesn't deserve him) and it's nice to have one honest character who doesn't pay a heavy price for it. Annoyed that his plotline got left hanging as soon as it got a great arc going.

= Wyman Manderley. Awesome, especially with his ice burns towards the Freys.

- Kevan. I suppose he had to go since he was one of the few people left who could hold Westeros together, but he was fairly cool once Tywin wasn't around to use him as a puppet and he could give Cersei a few ice burns in AFFC.

Decius
Oct 14, 2005

Ramrod XTreme

Hemp Knight posted:

- The Jon and Dany chapters really didn't advance at all. I thought that by the end of this book, we'd have seen a massive army of wights and Others (who've turned thousands of the defeated wildlings into wights) attack and overrun the Wall as winter arrives in full force, and Dany would have finally sorted out Meereen and trained her dragons once Tyrion arrived, letting her set sail for Westeros.

I agree with your point about Dany (and Tyrion), but Jon's part/the North/the Wall did progress quite a bit.

quote:

- Bran/Arya. I suppose they needed to progress rapidly for the next book, but having them learn as much as they did in just a couple of chapters each didn't feel natural at all.

- Davos. Great to see him again (Stannis doesn't deserve him) and it's nice to have one honest character who doesn't pay a heavy price for it. Annoyed that his plotline got left hanging as soon as it got a great arc going.

= Wyman Manderley. Awesome, especially with his ice burns towards the Freys.

Agreed about Davos and Manderley (don't forget the delicious Frey pie), but clearly set up for Winds of Winter.
A boy who gets fused to a tree/uncovers his magical abilities and a girl who learns to change her face aren't really persons whose learning needs to feel/be natural I think.

quote:

- Kevan. I suppose he had to go since he was one of the few people left who could hold Westeros together, but he was fairly cool once Tywin wasn't around to use him as a puppet and he could give Cersei a few ice burns in AFFC.

Well, you surely can imagine what I think of Ser Kevan Lannister dying.

Lanky Coconut Tree
Apr 7, 2011

An angry tree.

The angriest tree
I finished the book and I must say, it would've worked a LOT better if both ADWD and AFFC were released as one book. As it is there's only 2 books left for that lazy fucker to provide a proper conclusion and tie up all loose ends, seems a bit rushed. If this was only the fourth book, there'd be a bit more room for the endgame before a proper finish. But who am I kidding, he'll never finish this.

Does anyone else think that Cersei's tame frankenstein is probably going to be the cause of her getting executed by the High Septon for crimes against nature?

Kainser
Apr 27, 2010

O'er the sea from the north
there sails a ship
With the people of Hel
at the helm stands Loki
After the wolf
do wild men follow
Ser Kevan and Pycelle dying were the only things that I got spoiled for me. I kept hoping that it was a fake spoiler, but I was wrong :negative:

Ser Kevan dying seriously bothers me more than the Red Wedding.

dumb brunette
Mar 17, 2009

I admire man's ability to see beauty in everything! Even a flame!

Lanky Coconut Tree posted:

I finished the book and I must say, it would've worked a LOT better if both ADWD and AFFC were released as one book. As it is there's only 2 books left for that lazy fucker to provide a proper conclusion and tie up all loose ends, seems a bit rushed. If this was only the fourth book, there'd be a bit more room for the endgame before a proper finish. But who am I kidding, he'll never finish this.

Does anyone else think that Cersei's tame frankenstein is probably going to be the cause of her getting executed by the High Septon for crimes against nature?

Qyburnstein's monster will just kill the High Septon :black101: (which will probably end up actually being good for the kingdom in the end, guy's an overzealous nut.) Also, she can't get killed by the High Septon, she has to watch out for the valonqar (right now my bets are on Loras as revenge for managing to get Margaery killed, if that happens)

I felt like as a result of him having so few books left is why the Baby Aegon plot seemed to come out of nowhere and escalate so fast. There'll probably be a few more plots like that in TWOW.

dumb brunette fucked around with this message at 14:23 on Jul 14, 2011

Boogoose
Oct 5, 2003

GIVE ME THE CASH !
I'm not sure what my verdict on the book is yet, as I'm still excited to have read something that was so long in production so ANYTHING would have satisfied me. It does look like I agree with a lot of people here though:

- Jon and Dany's chapters were extremely tedious. J+D have always been my least favourite characters because of their teenaged kicks, but the amount of Dany chapters it took for her to remember that dragons are better than people, and THEN to just end up making GBS threads in the sea of grass, well there's not much to say. I liked the Caesar assassination of Jon though, even though we all know he won't stay dead. If he's the ice of a Song of Ice and Fire, him being a walking corpse will make as much sense as fire-Dany being fireproof.

- Theon and Davos were the best chapters by far. The vengence of the North, the possible recovery of Rickon as the King in the North, and Theon's development as Reek and then back to Theon were excellently written and what I actually wanted to read about. Plus the clear reference to The Sun Also Rises with Theon skirting around his cocklessness was appreciated. They were also my favourite chapters because of the total lack of magic.

- Which is good, because I think there's too much magical stuff going on which leads to lazy writing. Mance is given an actually loving cloaking device, which is a bit too much for me. I know it's probably based on stolen Faceless Man tech but I'm lamenting the lack of plausible explanations for plot twists, like simple betrayal or poisonings and the like.

- The Aegon story throws out all the tension built up over the whole series. Turns out who gives a poo poo what Dany's gone through or the war of the Five Kings, when completely outside of the events we've read about, the best claimant for the throne turns up with no character flaws and an army of 10,000 extremely well trained, equipped and motivated mercenaries.

- Cersei's chapters read like creepy fan service for people who really hated her. I hated her as a villain, but GRRM is going out of his way to satisfy all the hatred readers had for her.

- Finally, Tyrion is dead to me.

Contra Calculus
Nov 6, 2009

Gravy Boat 2k
I'm not even close to being done with the book, but I can say with confidence that Jon, Bran, Theon, and Davos POV's have been the most interesting stories in the book so far.
Hell, if they just had those as the entire book, I probably would say it is about as good as SoS. Unfortunately, this book is requiring me to slog through the slow-as-gently caress Dany and Tyrion chapters. It sucks that George has basically ruined Tyrion because I use to really look forward to his POV's in earlier books.

Is there some magic spell that causes people who leave Westeros to suddenly become completely loving retarded?

Contra Calculus fucked around with this message at 14:46 on Jul 14, 2011

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Kaizer88
Feb 16, 2011
loving Daario. At least he probably ended up thrown by the trebuchets into Mereen. Ha-Ha

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • Post
  • Reply