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Kaizer88 posted:loving Daario. At least he probably ended up thrown by the trebuchets into Mereen. Ha-Ha I think that the Theon and Davos chapters are what lifted this book from decent to great for me. e; I loved seeing Stannis march through the North in Asha's chapters as well. Kainser fucked around with this message at 15:06 on Jul 14, 2011 |
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Jul 14, 2011 15:01
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The "Mereenese" knot is the only thing that kept me from liking this better than Storm. Like someone above said, even Tyrion's awesome chapters went to poo poo after Volantis. Also, I don't even remember Volantis from the earlier books and suddenly it's this major city-state power. The gently caress. That said, I want to be Tyrion on the Rhoyne. Just slowly drifting down on a big boat, getting to see a hot milf bathe every morning, talking books with Haldon or playing cyvasse, giving poo poo to Duck. Man, I wanted to just kick it there for a while. Also, Lemure is totally Ashara Dayne. When Barristan meets up with her, it will be rad.
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Jul 14, 2011 15:41
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What was up with that greyscale thing on the Sorrows? Is it some sort of zombie-fying sickness? It was the one part of the book that jarred the most for me as it seemed to suddenly go into Robert Jordan style territory. Also Val mentioned how she'd kill Shireen if she was her child due to the greyscale 
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Jul 14, 2011 16:01
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Greyscale sounded a lot like leprosy to me, but sufficiently fantasticked.
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Jul 14, 2011 16:03
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The Hound vs. Frankengregor is going to be awesome. ... seriously, you don't think that the High Septon is just going to let the motherfucking Hound hang out farming at a monestary when there's  to be done.Also it would be hilarious if Mr. "I'm not a knight" Celgane became a member of a religious military order.
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Jul 14, 2011 16:05
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I thought the 'Ugly Little Girl' or whatever chapter was going to be Shireen. I was so disappointed 
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Jul 14, 2011 16:09
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bengraven posted:Also, Lemure is totally Ashara Dayne. You know I also thought about this while reading the book. I know you shouldn't get your hopes up that things will work out for people in this series, but man I'd love it for Barristan to end up married to Ashara Dayne and living the last part of his life happy after everything is said and done.
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Jul 14, 2011 16:19
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I'm only about 200 or so pages in, so this might be cleared up later in the book, but did anyone else get kind of a shock the way Godric Borrell spoke of Jon's mom as a fisherman's daughter from the Sisters? Named him Jon Snow after Jon Arryn? This is in Davos' first chapter.
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Jul 14, 2011 16:27
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cenzo posted:I'm only about 200 or so pages in, so this might be cleared up later in the book, but did anyone else get kind of a shock the way Godric Borrell spoke of Jon's mom as a fisherman's daughter from the Sisters? Named him Jon Snow after Jon Arryn? This is in Davos' first chapter. There's also this: GRRM posted:Stannis rubbed the back of his neck. “You haggle like a crone with a codfish, Lord Snow. Did Ned Stark father you on some fishwife? How many men?” Jon also thinks about it in a later chapter. I think GRRM is just tossing us a few curveballs to keep us on our toes. I also think we'll never find out who his real parents are!
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Jul 14, 2011 16:30
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There's been a few candidates proposed for Jon's parentage. The other is a dornish servant girl named Wylla. But after so many years of R+L=J, I'd be more shocked if it wasn't the case.
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Jul 14, 2011 16:30
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War Eagle posted:You know I also thought about this while reading the book. I know you shouldn't get your hopes up that things will work out for people in this series, but man I'd love it for Barristan to end up married to Ashara Dayne and living the last part of his life happy after everything is said and done. At least we have a few more people who can shake Jon and go "hey, look, I know who your mom is!" Aurubin posted:There's been a few candidates proposed for Jon's parentage. The other is a dornish servant girl named Wylla. But after so many years of R+L=J, I'd be more shocked if it wasn't the case. Well then you have that ship captain's daughter who apparently was Jon's mom, according to Manderly. Then you have Ashara Dayne, though it seems that theory might be out since apparently Ned knocked her up and the baby was stillborn. Which is another reason she is probably Lemure, since the septa has the stretchmarks of pregnancy. I can see her having the kid, freaking out, and and being wisked away to a nunnery by her embarassed family.
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Jul 14, 2011 16:43
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Aurubin posted:There's been a few candidates proposed for Jon's parentage. The other is a dornish servant girl named Wylla. But after so many years of R+L=J, I'd be more shocked if it wasn't the case. Yeah, but every time you read something it's always like conjecture. The way the guy n Sisters said it struck me much more as a definitive "this is what happened." Rereading the passage, however, leaves me with a different feel. "It is said he left her with a bag of silver and a bastard." So, just wishful thinking I guess. I agree we'll never know who his parents really are.
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Jul 14, 2011 16:43
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cenzo posted:Yeah, but every time you read something it's always like conjecture. The way the guy n Sisters said it struck me much more as a definitive "this is what happened." Well I think between that story and the one Barristan tells, it's possible Ned possibly had two bastards, maybe even three if Jon is really his son. One might even show up someday.
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Jul 14, 2011 16:46
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But Ned's Honor  Also for everyone who hates Daario and his blue beard: golden mustachios.
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Jul 14, 2011 16:59
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Cake Attack posted:Was Jon Connington ever mentioned before, or is he an entirely new character? Connington was the leader of the loyalist force at the Battle of the Bells during Robert's Rebellion. He was exiled by the Mad King for retreating in good order (and killing lot of rebels) from a battle he couldn't possibly win. In a Feast for Crows, Jaime meets Red Ronnet Connington (Connington's cousin and a landed knight) and according to Jaime, everyone think Connington drank himself to death in exile. Also, Connington was friend with Arthur Dayne.
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Jul 14, 2011 17:04
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Ashara Dayne's bastard could just as likely have been fathered by Brandon as by Ned Stark. Also, can the people who hated ADwD Tyrion expand on it a little? I did get sick of his moping and drinking early on, but excluding his stay with Illyrio and the stop at the brothel I found him to be no less entertaining than before. Same wit, except now he got to spar it with people completely unlike those that surrounded him in Westeros.
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Jul 14, 2011 17:34
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NihilCredo posted:Ashara Dayne's bastard could just as likely have been fathered by Brandon as by Ned Stark. He's entertaining, he just doesn't do anything. It makes sense given what's going on around him, but for a lot of his chapters toward the end, he's just kind of "there"
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Jul 14, 2011 17:38
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So... I just finished reading ADWD. He didn't really just kill Jon, did he? Not that I care that much (his chapters were soooo awful), but if he did it would the most hilarious 'gently caress you' ever. But he didn't, right?
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Jul 14, 2011 17:38
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Why was there not a single mention of Howland Reed in the entire book? 
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Jul 14, 2011 17:42
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Rednik posted:Why was there not a single mention of Howland Reed in the entire book? He's not only too awesome to be a PoV character, he's simply too awesome to be a character anymore.
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Jul 14, 2011 17:43
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Rarity posted:So... I just finished reading ADWD. There are way too many outs for it to stick. Even if Melisandre doesn't leap out of the plot shadows yelling "psyche!!" to cast a rezz, the whole prologue was a setup for warg body-hopping. If we're lucky we might even get a chapter or two of JonGhost sniffing a butt and mounting a hot bitch 
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Jul 14, 2011 17:45
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NihilCredo posted:Ashara Dayne's bastard could just as likely have been fathered by Brandon as by Ned Stark. He was very entertaining until Penny comes into play. I feel like Penny becomes the focus of his story instead of all the other important things happening around him. It's the same problem with Dany. She's too busy worrying about loving blue beard and Mereen than all the other important things happening around her.
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Jul 14, 2011 18:01
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Just a reminder that I came up with the theory that Ashara Dayne was alive and well with baby Aegon before ADWD came out! If Lemore turns out to be Ashara (I laid out the evidence for it earlier in the thread), I'll be so loving happy, man. Not that anyone shot it down and I want to gloat or anything - quite the opposite, people generally thought it was a good theory - it'd just feel pretty drat good to be one of the few that have pieced together the puzzle. I haven't seen anyone else put forth the same theory, but I'm not dumb enough to think I'm the first or only to come up with it. Okay, done talking about something nobody but me gives a poo poo about  whowhatwhere posted:Also for everyone who hates Daario and his blue beard: golden mustachios. No, besides his emptiness as a character, what I can't stand is that Dany is so heads over heels in love with the guy. It doesn't make sense for her to be so in love with utter scum. That's annoying enough. Add on the fact that Dany can't loving shut up about him in her head or otherwise, and the annoying factor gets cranked up to 11.
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Jul 14, 2011 18:15
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VaultAggie posted:He was very entertaining until Penny comes into play. I feel like Penny becomes the focus of his story instead of all the other important things happening around him. It's the same problem with Dany. She's too busy worrying about loving blue beard and Mereen than all the other important things happening around her. And Penny is really loving annoying with her goddamn Pretty Pig that she loves so much.
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Jul 14, 2011 18:17
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Ray_ posted:And Penny is really loving annoying with her goddamn Pretty Pig that she loves so much. Come on Tyrion...we're just a pair of dwarves, the big people don't like us, we're supposed to be funny and they'll throw coins at us. Stop trying to be someone you're not. Dance a jig with me.
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Jul 14, 2011 18:34
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I still worry that there's about a 95% chance that R+L=J is true, but after this book I'm really really hoping it's not. I didn't really care about it before, but with Aegon (whether he's the real Aegon or not, although frankly while possible, having him be fake would be really stupid IMO) popping up, having more secret Targs just seems like unbelieveably lovely storytelling. Ditto the hints at Tyrion being a secret Targ, though that's at least unlikely still. The constant red herrings about Jon's parentage just makes me roll my eyes at this point. The worst part of Meereen for me wasn't the whole Daario thing/Dany being a spoiled kid, but the fact that not only was the padding boring as gently caress, but also offensively orientalist (All the slavers from Yunkai are unreasonably grotesque caricatures you say? Daario is the love-interest while Brown Ben Plum gets to be the stereotypical mercenary (cheered for Ben anyway cause gently caress Dany)? Pretty much all the Meereenese/Yunkai/Sellsword characters being ambiguously neutral (Pale Prince, Shavepate) at best, most of them are terrible people (yeah a lot of westerosi characters are terrible too, but at least they're not slave traders, and there are a lot of characters to cheer for too while there are only a couple here, half of which are white as gently caress and all part of Dany's pre-Meereen retinue)?).
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Jul 14, 2011 18:42
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Insurrectionist posted:I still worry that there's about a 95% chance that R+L=J is true, but after this book I'm really really hoping it's not. I didn't really care about it before, but with Aegon (whether he's the real Aegon or not, although frankly while possible, having him be fake would be really stupid IMO) popping up, having more secret Targs just seems like unbelieveably lovely storytelling. Ditto the hints at Tyrion being a secret Targ, though that's at least unlikely still. The constant red herrings about Jon's parentage just makes me roll my eyes at this point. Shavepate seemed a little brusque, sure, but he actually could have given Dany a lot of good advice had she loving listened. At least he and Barristan got to work together.
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Jul 14, 2011 18:52
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As much as Tyrion always moaned and cried about  my dad hates me, dwarf prejudice he still had a massive amount of privilege granted to him via his birth and shitloads of money. It's hilarious to watch him rage out over Penny being a subservient entertainer to get by, since if he hadn't been born a rich rear end Lannister he'd be dead or suckin on dog dicks in Oldtown for a living.I share a lot of the complaints and disappointment involving Tyrion chapters, I guess after 11 years of waiting I expected more than him gooning out over all women being whores and having a dick crisis over some virgin dwarf. He got to drop a sick burn on an anime-haired secret Targ teenager though so I guess it wasn't a total waste.
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Jul 14, 2011 18:52
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I was really happy to see Jorah again, and I loved the irony of him being enslaved.
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Jul 14, 2011 19:02
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Insurrectionist posted:The worst part of Meereen for me wasn't the whole Daario thing/Dany being a spoiled kid, but the fact that not only was the padding boring as gently caress, but also offensively orientalist (All the slavers from Yunkai are unreasonably grotesque caricatures you say? I can't agree with these two points more. The padding was unnessary and the early 20th century racist charicutures got old (I wonder how much Robert E. Howard he read for this).
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Jul 14, 2011 19:18
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Rarity posted:So... I just finished reading ADWD. Not a chance in hell is he permanently dead especially after seeing Mel's POV. Why do people hate Jon chapters? Between the three characters that ADWD is many about, his were at least interesting unlike Tyrion and Dany who couldn't shut te gently caress up about their their terrible relationships.
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Jul 14, 2011 19:24
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The Jon chapters were pretty good. The only thing they were really missing that could have put them over the top would have been an Other or Wight attack. Though I can see how that would have potentially gotten Bowen Marsh to actually loving realize what the Night's Watch is there for and reconsider the assassination.
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Jul 14, 2011 19:30
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Contra Calculus posted:Why do people hate Jon chapters? Between the three characters that ADWD is many about, his were at least interesting unlike Tyrion and Dany who couldn't shut te gently caress up about their their terrible relationships. Cause they were boring, uneventful and incredibly generic? And this is the first book I've thought that, I normally enjoy them. In light of the final ending they are slightly improved in hindsight, but it still felt like I was reading Wheel of Time or something. I agree that Dany and Tyrion both had some really weak chapters too. It was so obvious that the Tyrion storyline was just stalling after Jorah showed up. Honestly, Theon's chapters are what saved the book for me. "So all in all it was a dismal day." Oh Roose edit: Oh, and Quentyn turning out to be a total pussy also ruled.
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Jul 14, 2011 19:32
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I don't know, Jon's character is becoming less interesting to me as things go on, so maybe the resurrection will make him better. But the biggest reason I like the character is that I like the Wall. I like the Night's Watch. I love ice and snow in my own life and having moved to a sub-tropical area, that's denied to me. I'm in the long summer. So it's cool to think of this blowing, white wind and these little black shapes moving from one building to the next. I could seriously do with a prequel series taking place just on the Wall.
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Jul 14, 2011 19:42
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bengraven posted:I could seriously do with a prequel series taking place just on the Wall. A small taste of it: rumour is that Dunk's next adventure will be set in the North. Oh, and that he's gonna gently caress Old Nan.
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Jul 14, 2011 19:50
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NihilCredo posted:A small taste of it: rumour is that Dunk's next adventure will be set in the North. Hodor is his grandson confirmed.
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Jul 14, 2011 20:03
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I actually enjoy Jon far more now that he starts to grow into his role as Lord Commander. Still has some whiny spells, but overall I liked it quite a bit.
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Jul 14, 2011 20:17
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After reading Dance, it really hit me how pointless Feast truly was. Nothing happens in Feast that forwards the actual story, nothing. The story has always been about Jon Snow, Danny, and to a lesser extent, Tyrion. Not including your three strongest protagonists was a horrible idea. As a part of the series it was pointless. There is no way HBO is going to give Feast/Dance two full seasons, not enough happens between the two books to warrant it. They will condense the best parts of Feast(Not much) and the best parts of Dance for the 4th season.(Hopefully it makes it to a 4th season) As far as Dance, I really enjoyed it. We finally got some true character development for Jon and Danny. Jon's chapters got a bit repetitive(Wildlings must be saved, Kill the boy, the black brothers bitch, Jon makes a deal, Queensmen are dicks, repeat over and over) But had a GREAT Julius Caesar ending. Once Jon claimed that he was marching for Winterfell I knew that he was 'done'(He will be back, one form or another). Each time a character breaks a code of conduct, or go against their nature, they are punished horribly in these books. From Eddard denouncing his honour to save his family, Cat releasing Jamie, Robb taking a bride not a Frey, and Theon being a traitor. You break the rules, you get punished, and Jon broke a sacred oath with that speech, and it was the moment the stewards had been waiting for. I am one of those who believe Jon is 'The Prince who was Promised', and we are finally getting his transformation into that character. Danny's chapters were all pretty awful with exception of the last two. The Daario love affair is so goddamned annoying but too be fair, Daario is the kind of guy young women like. He's that world's equivalent to a rockstar. He's brash, flashy, and a complete douchebag. With that said, I hope Danny has finally embraced her true nature, she's a conqueror, she is the dragon. Whenever she plays nice she is punished, whenever she is rolling over her enemies in military action she is successful. Like Alexander the Great, she is a conqueror, not a ruler. Tyrion's chapters started slow, got great during Heart of Darkness-esque boat ride then takes a dive when Penny shows up. His last few chapters are saved by Tyrion being Tyrion and scheming with Sellswords like the good ol' days. Also great that Jorah is back. With that said the best POV's were Theon, Davos, and Barriston. Theon's story was extremely compelling. The Bolton's are so hosed up in the most over the top way, and the interactions between the Frey's and Manderley's men was amazing. Also Manderley's 'Titus' turn was great. The Frey's as a family will be wiped out, the Bolton's are evil, but the Frey's arrogance, and code breaking, has doomed them all. Also comedy shout-out to Quentyn Martell, and his wacky comedy miss-adventure. His story was just a sad dark-comedy. Of course he was going to die, he never had a chance in a Martin book.
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Jul 14, 2011 20:18
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I can't wait to see how Jon's friends take that. I'm going to assume that Thorne will choose this moment to return and maybe even become the 999th Lord Commander.
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Jul 14, 2011 20:20
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bengraven posted:I can't wait to see how Jon's friends take that. I'm going to assume that Thorne will choose this moment to return and maybe even become the 999th Lord Commander. Samwell the Slayer 1000th(if there is even a wall by the end of Wind's of Winter)
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Jul 14, 2011 20:26
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