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Montasque posted:Theon's story was extremely compelling. There's just not enough  in the world for all the poo poo Theon goes through. It was awful, but then seeing his last chapter start with his own name was fantastic and made me cheer out loud.bengraven posted:I can't wait to see how Jon's friends take that. Jon's biggest mistake was sending his friends away. He deprived himself of all his biggest allies, the guys who got him to his position, and for essentially stupid reasons. And it made the book seriously lacking in Pyp 
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Jul 14, 2011 20:35
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I thought the Tyrion chapters were awesome. Penny was an annoying, although pitiable, character. But she's Tysha. Dany's chapters were just this retarded quagmire of exoticism and people you don't care about, and I think it was done intentionally. Gurm is too skilled at character development to not have done this intentionally. Jon's chapters were somewhat interesting. The letter was loving incredible, and Jon's death was shocking to me. But yeah, like Contra Calculus said, Mel's POV is a huge giveaway that Jon will be back. As well as one of Jon's dreams where he's in this black armor or something (I don't have the book with me, but if anyone can find the passage I'm thinking of and post it, I'd be grateful) Theon's chapters are some of the most powerful pieces of writing I've ever read. Really, these alone make this book a masterpiece. I wonder how many people don't feel guilty about wanting Theon to suffer after reading book 2. Vengeance is repulsive Arya owns. Can't wait for more from her. Cersei's chapters are amazing too. I really liked Cersei throughout these books, and even with the horrible things she did, I still liked her as a character. I didn't really see the naked walk as fanservice, but more of her descent to madness. The epilogue made me SO loving happy, I can't wait to see Cersei with power again. I love watching her fail, she's like the IdrA of ASoIaF. And with Ser Strong, I expect crazy poo poo, hopefully with Holy Sandor. Victarion shows promise, I wonder if the dragon horn is going to be something related to the horn used to bring down the wall (that was apparently never found, but faked). Selmy wasn't as enjoyable as I expected. I wanted more revealed, I guess. Moreover, it seemed too easy for him to get Hizdahr out of his quarters, which disappointed me, but after thinking about it I'm sure that was probably intentional. Lenin Stimpy fucked around with this message at 18:46 on Jul 16, 2011 |
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Jul 14, 2011 20:38
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Rarity posted:There's just not enough GRRM did a fantastic job with Theon. He is a character we should all hate, after all he betrayed house Stark, the only good people in a world of poo poo. But his punishment is so gruesome, and his captors so twisted and evil, we cant help but feel that a.) He has suffered enough already, b.) We hope he wins.
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Jul 14, 2011 20:40
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I think everyone can agree, whether you liked or hated them, Theon and Davos had the absolute best POV's in the entire book. I am still disappointed in this book so far, but those chapters almost made the two year-long wait for this book with it. Oh wait! 
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Jul 14, 2011 20:40
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Lenin Stimpy posted:
The fake Horn of Joramun wasn't a surprise, I've thought for a long time that it's the old horn that Jon and Ghost found at the Fist of the First Men. And that's another hanging thread. Are we ever going to find out who buried it and those obsidian arrows/daggers there (Benjen Stark?) As for Theon, his (with Davos) was the best part of the book. Yeah, he was a traitorous arsehole in ACOK, but his torture and attempt to do something noble by helping Jeyne Poole escape the Boltons is really compelling.
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Jul 14, 2011 20:50
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Reading how that changing of faces worked was a pretty  moment. Although it still doesnt explain how Jaqen does it so fast.Also, its amazing how GURM can write awesome stuff like the Theon/Davos chapters, and fill half the book with the boring as poo poo chapters of Tyrion/Dany.
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Jul 14, 2011 20:51
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So I can't remember right now, but why didn't Theon tell the spearwives that "Arya" isn't Arya? Was it because he wanted to escape himself? Or because Jeyne doesn't deserve to be tortured, and if he told them they wouldn't rescue her? Or both? I don't think it's explicit, so what do y'all think?
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Jul 14, 2011 20:59
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Just finished an hour ago. gently caress this book. The side characters and poo poo arcs had their day in affc. This was all the meat of the series, all the best characters, no nonsense straight-up plot. But no. I don't even have the words. 800 pages of a knot solved by literally flying out of it. There were a few high notes, but...  I'm sorry I ever doubted you Bad Thread.
mythicknight fucked around with this message at 21:03 on Jul 14, 2011 |
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Jul 14, 2011 20:59
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I liked the sub-theme of Melisandre talking about the trappings of power and then several chapters later Cersei having to do the repentance walk. Everyone recognized that she lost all perceived power and authority because of that. Then it's immediately subverted by naked, making GBS threads Dany about to sic Drogon onto an entire khalasar. Of course, you could argue that Drogon himself counts, but he's actual power instead of the perception of power.
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Jul 14, 2011 21:04
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Lenin Stimpy posted:Or because Jeyne doesn't deserve to be tortured, and if he told them they wouldn't rescue her? Or both? I don't think it's explicit, so what do y'all think? I didn't think I cared about Jeyne, but now I'm curious how much of her story gets told. Did Robb get her pregnant before he died or what? (That may have been answered in Feast, but I've only read it once and don't remember) Also, a friend of mine has a theory that Cersei was pregnant at the end of Feast - more/less likely now? I know there's not a lot about her in Dance, but eh.
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Jul 14, 2011 21:07
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How long did it take people to figure out that Abel was Mance Rayder? Cause it didn't click for me until one of the washerwomen talked about being south of the Wall. I'm guessing most people were smarter than me.
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Jul 14, 2011 21:11
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Montasque posted:After reading Dance, it really hit me how pointless Feast truly was. AFFC was about four things: How much Cersei hosed things up and how much she brought the realm to the brink of ruin in just a few months, even alienating Jaime (whose growth was also an important point of AFFC). And of course about Brienne traveling the world. Third thing was the Ironborn voting Euron to be king and turning from the north to Highgarden territory. And the most important and in my opinion best part: Littlefinger gaining the Vale, showing Sansa how the world works and being creepy Thirtysomething having a boner for a fourteen year old girl. Only Brienne's story was pointless and boring because it is futile from the start and we know it. Jesus Louise posted:I didn't think I cared about Jeyne, but now I'm curious how much of her story gets told. Did Robb get her pregnant before he died or what? (That may have been answered in Feast, but I've only read it once and don't remember) You mean Jeyne Westerling? She drunk Moon Tea, so unlikely. Although it would be interesting what happend to her. Because the women that leaves Riverrun with her mother and father doesn't match up with her description in ASoS at all. But the fake Arya was Jeyne Poole. Decius fucked around with this message at 21:22 on Jul 14, 2011 |
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Jul 14, 2011 21:13
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Jesus Louise posted:I didn't think I cared about Jeyne, but now I'm curious how much of her story gets told. Did Robb get her pregnant before he died or what? (That may have been answered in Feast, but I've only read it once and don't remember) Fake Arya is Jeyne Poole, not Jeyne Westerling There's no hint as to whether Cersei is pregnant or not (unless it completely flew over my head)
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Jul 14, 2011 21:14
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Lenin Stimpy posted:So I can't remember right now, but why didn't Theon tell the spearwives that "Arya" isn't Arya? He didn't tell them because it would be literally pointless for them to smuggle out a fake Arya who doesn't have a real claim to anything. I hope Jon is the Ice in ASoIaF and comes back as a friendly Other like Benjen "Coldhands" Stark. That assassination came out of nowhere but then again Bowen Marsh is an idiot. I feel really silly because I was all worried about Manderly when the Freys tried to get him. They cut through three chins but luckily he had four. I was also scared for Barristan because he kept thinking about he's all old and not-young and going up against some crazy pit fighter. Also I'm trying to figure out how Daenerys is going to get the horn from Victarion. It was even mentioned that the Targs of old used magic horns to control their beasts and blowing the horn makes you internally combust which is something that Dany is conveniently immune to now (TWICE!). Then again I think I'd rather she just keep making GBS threads in the grass after drinking poop water and eating poop berries. E: Rarity posted:How long did it take people to figure out that Abel was Mance Rayder? Cause it didn't click for me until one of the washerwomen talked about being south of the Wall. I'm guessing most people were smarter than me. I just finished the book about 10 minutes ago and didn't realize this until you posted it.
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Jul 14, 2011 21:16
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Cersei isn't pregnant, she's just getting fat from all the wine drinking and eating poo poo.
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Jul 14, 2011 21:17
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A couple of times she talks about her dresses being tighter then they used to be, but that could just be her getting fatter. Then again, kids are popping out all over the place so who knows.
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Jul 14, 2011 21:17
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Decius posted:AFFC was about four things: How much Cersei hosed things up and how much she brought the realm to the brink of ruin in just a few months, even alienating Jaime (whose growth was also an important point of AFFC). And of course about Brienne traveling the world. Third thing was the Ironborn voting Euron to be king and turning from the north to Highgarden territory. And the most important and in my opinion best part: Littlefinger gaining the Vale, showing Sansa how the world works and being creepy Thirtysomething having a boner for a fourteen year old girl. All of that could have been dealt with in a few chapters in aDwD. All of Little Finger's, Euron's, and Doran's plans are almost meaningless in the grand scheme of things. There are frozen zombies and dragons in play, their little game of thrones is a distraction at best.
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Jul 14, 2011 21:19
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Oh, yeah, five things. I always forget Dorne. Because it's boring too. I disagree that Littlefinger, Jaime and Cersei could have been handled in just a few chapters in ADwD. That stuff did need some space to grow. And especially Cersei's actions will have pretty big repercussions for the fight against the Others and against Dany (arming the faith, appointing a completely lovely council, alienating the Tyrells, losing the fleet...)
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Jul 14, 2011 21:26
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Decius posted:Cersei isn't pregnant, she's just getting fat from all the wine drinking and eating poo poo. Literally? I'd stupid to have to ask, but GRRM
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Jul 14, 2011 21:31
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Koryk posted:Literally? I'd stupid to have to ask, but GRRM Everything is poo poo, comes from poo poo, and eventually becomes poo poo.
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Jul 14, 2011 21:34
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Brannock posted:Everything is poo poo, comes from poo poo, and eventually becomes poo poo. In the ghetto, we call this the brown cycle. I neither hated this book nor liked it.
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Jul 14, 2011 21:36
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You know? I'm beginning to think that the only reason I said Jon's POV's were "good" in this book is because everything else that wasn't Theon/Davos was so goddamn boring and terrible that by comparison, Jon's are only slightly less terrible. Just finished the chapter where Theon jumps off the battlements with Jeyne. I have no idea how the gently caress you guys read so fast, I literally have read all of two loving chapters today, I literally just can't bring myself to read for more than two hours a goddamn day.
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Jul 14, 2011 21:37
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Contra Calculus posted:I have no idea how the gently caress you guys read so fast, I literally have read all of two loving chapters today, I literally just can't bring myself to read for more than two hours a goddamn day. When you read all day you get fast at it
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Jul 14, 2011 21:43
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Well nothing at all of importance happens during Tyrion chapters so that's like a good 1/4 of the book you can speedread through.
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Jul 14, 2011 21:44
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I was a little confused by a couple quirks of the chapter titling. So far, the pattern seems to have been "Character's full name" (except Bran), unless A. The character is a minor PoV (Quentyn, Asha, Barristan, Jon Connington, etc) or B. The character is undergoing an identity change (Sansa, Arya, Theon) So what does that suggest when Melisandre's chapter is "Melisandre" and not "The Red Woman" and Victarion's final chapter in ADWD is simply "Victarion"? Those two chapter titles especially stood out to me. Are they going to be major PoVs come Winds of Winter?
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Jul 14, 2011 22:10
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Anyone else get the impression that Connington may have been interested in Rhaeygar romantically?
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Jul 14, 2011 22:16
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Good to see zombie gregor arrive at last <3.
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Jul 14, 2011 22:27
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I actually found the first two Davos chapters boring. And I like Davos a lot. The next two were really good, especially his "trial". Barristan's chapter where he's going in stealth to capture Hizdhar was really tense to me. I seriously expected him to die. It felt like Shavepate was setting him up. Also, how awesome is it that, if Ramsay, Roose, and Fat Walda get killed in the next novel during the siege, that Jeyne loving Poole will be the Lady of the Dreadfort? Edit: ^^^ yeah and I think it's intentional that he picks Cersei gently up in his arms to carry her to safety. It's symbolic of him going from this mad monster to being under her complete control and devoted to her.
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Jul 14, 2011 22:33
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Am I correct in assuming that Arya completed her kill by intentionally getting caught stealing that dudes purse and then putting a poisoned coin into his purse as she was running (since she knew he bit all of them). I figured out the Mance thing about midway through the chapter where Theon escapes. That was a real headslapper.
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Jul 14, 2011 22:39
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Gaussian posted:Am I correct in assuming that Arya completed her kill by intentionally getting caught stealing that dudes purse and then putting a poisoned coin into his purse as she was running (since she knew he bit all of them). Here's my assumption question; Jon Connington (at least) and Rhaegar are/were gay, right? I liked the interplay between the Dany/Tyrion chapters, even if it did drive me mad. Dany Chapter: Hmm, we could really do with some kind of wise counsel, here. Tyrion: Tum tee tum, on the way to Mereen. Dany: Gosh, we have all these problems with murders and such, but we have NO PERSON who could deal with such a situation! Tyrion: All's going well, whoops, a setback! Never mind, back on the way by a different path. Dany: Wow, it'd sure be handy if we had someone who could play the game with all these shifty bastards! Tyrion: Oh dear, another setback, still, yet another route appears! Me: GET TYRION TO loving MEREEN ALREADY.
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Jul 14, 2011 22:49
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I don't know how many times GRRM had to pound Dornishman's knife and wife into us for it to make Mance immediately obvious the moment that Abel sang that verse - or even when Mance says it to Melisandre as "Rattleshirt".
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Jul 14, 2011 22:50
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Gaussian posted:I figured out the Mance thing about midway through the chapter where Theon escapes. That was a real headslapper.
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Jul 14, 2011 22:52
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Revenant Threshold posted:I liked the interplay between the Dany/Tyrion chapters, even if it did drive me mad. Oh, definitely - Tyrion's strongest moments in the entire series came in Clash of Kings, when he's, surprise, playing the game of thrones with backstabbing courtiers. The whole meandering journey to Meereen utterly wasted Tyrion for us in this book, but really drove home the point that Tyrion is best as Hand or a similar position. What I'm wondering is how the gently caress GRRM is going to reunite Dany and Tyrion/Barristan/et al.
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Jul 14, 2011 22:53
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Dany is going to ride to Mereen with ten thousand Dothraki screamers while Tyrion negotiates the Second Suns' new contract with the Queen's Hand.
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Jul 14, 2011 22:59
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I just realized that the fact that Tyrion didn't get Greyscale (and the plague in Mereen for that matter) even though the Griffin dude got it from touching him might be a hint that he's a secret Targ, seeing as Targs are immune to many diseases apparently  e; Or it's just Tyrion's plot armor showing up again. He have survived way to many dangerous situations for it to feel realistic. e; I do however think that GRRM was thinking 'Wait, my readers think Tyrion is a secret Targ? Heh, let's see if I can troll more people into thinking that' when he added the 'Aerys wanted to gently caress Tywin's wife'-line though. Kainser fucked around with this message at 23:08 on Jul 14, 2011 |
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Jul 14, 2011 23:01
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I always thought that the whole Aerys/Joanna reveal was meant to bolster the theory that Jaime/Cersei are secret Targs, not Tyrion. If Tyrion is Aerys's son then that completely sinks a lot of really great character development, including "You are not my son", "Tyrion is Tywin's son, not you", and generally just makes it convoluted and dumb. Having Jaime/Cersei being fathered by Aerys though makes the whole Tywin/Jaime/Tyrion father/son thing hell of a lot more tragic, gives us an explanation for Jaime/Cersei's penchant for royal incest babies, explains Cersei's attraction to fire, excessive pride, growing paranoia, insanity, and cruelty - and all of that counting double for Joffrey.
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Jul 14, 2011 23:08
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Charlie Mopps posted:Reading how that changing of faces worked was a pretty It seemed like there was still some sort of magic in it, she couldn't feel the face. My theory would be that once you have a new one sewn on you can change to the old ones you had sewn on at will. quote:What I'm wondering is how the gently caress GRRM is going to reunite Dany and Tyrion/Barristan/et al. There will be several hundred more pages of wandering and somehow none of them will ever actually meet up. Seriously though I thought Dance was great, but I'm not crazy about more cliffhangers when the dude is just too slow to write.
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Jul 14, 2011 23:19
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FuriousxGeorge posted:It seemed like there was still some sort of magic in it, she couldn't feel the face. My theory would be that once you have a new one sewn on you can change to the old ones you had sewn on at will.
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Jul 14, 2011 23:25
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Gaussian posted:Am I correct in assuming that Arya completed her kill by intentionally getting caught stealing that dudes purse and then putting a poisoned coin into his purse as she was running (since she knew he bit all of them). Yeah, it took that girl saying "kneeler" for me to figure it out. I was like "oooooh, okay". I feel like a moron for not catching it when this minstrel arrives with a bunch of women. Brannock posted:I don't know how many times GRRM had to pound Dornishman's knife and wife into us for it to make Mance immediately obvious the moment that Abel sang that verse - or even when Mance says it to Melisandre as "Rattleshirt". I don't even remember that part. Kainser posted:I just realized that the fact that Tyrion didn't get Greyscale (and the plague in Mereen for that matter) even though the Griffin dude got it from touching him might be a hint that he's a secret Targ, seeing as Targs are immune to many diseases apparently Well I don't think anyone ever says how long you're supposed to check for greyscale. All I could think was "please don't get greyscale...you don't need to get any uglier on us". As for the Targ thing, when Selmy says that Aerys took the bedding a bit too far, I think it was more of sticking his fingers in her or rubbing her up and down. I think he literally said something about Aerys not being able to take advantage of "first night". I think he just molested Joanna, not hosed her.
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Jul 14, 2011 23:26
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bengraven posted:As for the Targ thing, when Selmy says that Aerys took the bedding a bit too far, I think it was more of sticking his fingers in her or rubbing her up and down. I think he literally said something about Aerys not being able to take advantage of "first night". I think he just molested Joanna, not hosed her. I personally don't think he did it, but that line increased the likelihood of it.
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Jul 14, 2011 23:34
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