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FuriousxGeorge posted:It would have worked if he wasn't late. It would have worked if Dany hadn't rejected him in favor of Hizdahr. Seriously? Meereen over Dorne?
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Jul 15, 2011 03:54
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Unmerciful posted:Another psychopath Targaryen on the throne then. How could that go wrong? Possibly, considering by Dorne laws, would Arianne have kept control? Maybe they were considering this? Edit: I now understand some of the Dany hate. But it wasn't until this book. Before she was kicking rear end and conquering, then settles in a city she doesn't understand and expects them to bend the knee? It also seems she hasn't really taken any serious council since dismissing Jorah. Maybe I'm not reading into that correctly. Barristan gets interrupted too much by Martin's TV prose to give sage council. geeves fucked around with this message at 03:59 on Jul 15, 2011 |
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Jul 15, 2011 03:55
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If the lady from the Theon chapters is to be believed the maesters are conspiring for something. Is there any idea what that would be besides ridding the world of magic? I also hope that the Tower of Joy took place with a Godswood adjacent to it or that Ned tells the full tale to a tree in the next book so that we can finally know what happened there. cosmic gumbo fucked around with this message at 04:10 on Jul 15, 2011 |
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Jul 15, 2011 04:04
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Unmerciful posted:Quentyn was such a loving doofus in this book. It makes me laugh at everyone who thought Doran Martell was some kind of subtle mastermind in AFFC. His brilliant plan was to wait 17 years after his sister's death while her killers consolidated power and also killed his brother, then send his hopelessly ordinary son with a meager 2 companions across the loving globe to somehow woo Dany and bring her dragons to Westeros? gently caress him and gently caress Dorne, the Sand Snakes should be in charge. I remember people saying how cool the fire and blood stuff from Doran was as a reveal at the end of AFFC. It set up things as Doran being patient but very meticulous. Turns out his initial plan failed, and Quentyn is a quiet and shy teenager who's nervous around women. That's a backup plan destined to fail. I don't know how Doran could have even had the confidence that Quentyn + 5 others could actually accomplish anything. Now his AFFC stuff seems delusional; the Sand Snakes and his daughter and everyone else are actually right that he's too slow to act. Also was the general thought that the Golden Company had broken its contract in order to be with Quentyn when AFFC came out? Or am I remembering that wrong? I was surprised when it turned out that the Golden Company was going over to the Griffin, and the Martell plan was just 6 dudes going across the seas. General thoughts: chapters in the North were awesome. Dany stuff in Meereen was a lot more in-depth than I expected. Tough to slog through for a first read, but I think that it's something that I'll appreciate more on re-reads when all the newer characters are more familiar and committed to memory.
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Jul 15, 2011 04:34
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Christ Pseudoscientist posted:If the lady from the Theon chapters is to be believed the maesters are conspiring for something. Is there any idea what that would be besides ridding the world of magic? I got a similar feeling from the Jaime chapter, when he was talking about maesters with that one kid who he thinks Tyrion would like. It's clear the maesters are attempting to rewrite history, at least with respect to the history of the Others. But from this chapter I got the feeling that the maesters have also been rewriting the history of the houses. The only purpose I could see this serving is to pit houses against each other in order to serve some larger goal, but who knows what that is? Perhaps the maesters are working for the Others, or are being manipulated by them? (With some evidence in Victarion's chapter re: his wounded hand and the red preist). In any case, I hope the series branches more towards high fantasy, I love this crazy poo poo
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Jul 15, 2011 04:49
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life of lemons posted:I remember people saying how cool the fire and blood stuff from Doran was as a reveal at the end of AFFC. It set up things as Doran being patient but very meticulous. Turns out his initial plan failed, and Quentyn is a quiet and shy teenager who's nervous around women. That's a backup plan destined to fail. I don't know how Doran could have even had the confidence that Quentyn + 5 others could actually accomplish anything. Now his AFFC stuff seems delusional; the Sand Snakes and his daughter and everyone else are actually right that he's too slow to act. That's the thing though, it was a half assed back up plan. If Dany brother wasn't quite as stupid as he was, the plan would of worked. It relied heavily on the dope being alive and not getting his crown early. Opps.
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Jul 15, 2011 05:20
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Kindle says I'm about 25% through, and not impressed so far. We finally get some Bran chapters again, but woops, for everyone bran chapter where he's adventuring in the unknown and there's actually danger and dramatic tension it's a bunch more boring loving bullshit travelogues interspersed with Dany being inert and awful in some awful Iraq analogue. Enjoyable stuff fat man, thanks
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Jul 15, 2011 06:14
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Arrrthritis posted:It'd also be interesting to see if the TV show made a point to show the talking Weirwoods as well. They showed it once, when Bran was in the Godswood with Osha and Hodor, when he thought he heard his name. But people were probably distracted by Hodor's whorebane.
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Jul 15, 2011 06:23
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hypocrite lecteur posted:some awful Iraq analogue Gotta agree, it reads like something that's - get this - six years too late
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Jul 15, 2011 06:30
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Rarity posted:How long did it take people to figure out that Abel was Mance Rayder? Cause it didn't click for me until one of the washerwomen talked about being south of the Wall. I'm guessing most people were smarter than me. SON OF A GOD DAMNED Well I guess that's what I get for skipping sleep to read this damned thing, I miss incredibly obvious and important poo poo like this. Now I have to go back and reread all those chapters... God, ugh, he was with six women, and he was playing a harp, holy poo poo I'm dumb.
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Jul 15, 2011 07:28
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The twins being Targaryens makes no sense at all. If Tywin was aware of it, why did he want Jaime to inherit so badly, and completely refused to countenance Tyrion getting the Rock? I think Tyrion being a secret Targaryen is a very interesting twist in and of itself.
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Jul 15, 2011 07:43
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Darth Windu posted:The twins being Targaryens makes no sense at all. If Tywin was aware of it, why did he want Jaime to inherit so badly, and completely refused to countenance Tyrion getting the Rock? I think Tyrion being a secret Targaryen is a very interesting twist in and of itself. If any of the Lannisters turns out to be a secret Targ I would quit the series in an instant. Because it would completely ruin everything from the development of Jaime and Tyrion and their relationship with Tywin. Also, we really, really, really have enough secret Targs by now. With Jon Snow we are up to five surviving Targs when we thought there were two at the start of the series. If this trend continues we have more surviving Targs than we had Jedis surviving the Rise of the Empire (17 of them currently if I am not mistaken). Decius fucked around with this message at 08:10 on Jul 15, 2011 |
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Jul 15, 2011 08:06
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Manos del Sino posted:I genuinely feel bad for Pretty Pig and Crunch, less so for Penny, but I'd like to see her get a happy ending, or at least a quick and painless death. It says a lot about ASOIAF when "a quick and painless death" is something a character should be thankful for. 
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Jul 15, 2011 08:15
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Decius posted:If any of the Lannisters turns out to be a secret Targ I would quit the series in an instant. Because it would completely ruin everything from the development of Jaime and Tyrion and their relationship with Tywin. Also, we really, really, really have enough secret Targs by now. With Jon Snow we are up to five surviving Targs when we thought there were two at the start of the series. If this trend continues we have more surviving Targs than we had Jedis surviving the Rise of the Empire (17 of them currently if I am not mistaken). That is dumb. Technically, none of the Lannister children are actually Targaryens, and neither is Jon. They are all just Targaryen bastards, which means little and less when you remember that there are at least two true-born heirs still alive. It would be another interesting twist in a series full of them. This is all but confirmed for me, now - I have been a proponent of the Tyrion as a Secret Targaryen theory ever since I read the first book, and the fact that there is a passage about a relationship between Aerys and Joanna set it in stone. I also do not see anything wrong with so many Jedi surviving the war, aside from the fact that the original movie says only two did. It is far more realistic that less than a score managed to survive when the Empire had an entire galaxy of Jedi to wipe out.
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Jul 15, 2011 08:19
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Tyrion being a Targ completely takes away the meaning of him trying to get the approval of Tywin. Of Tywin denying being his son. It ruins a storyline that run for three books. It ruins the culmination of the storyline. It would be a completely dumb move. Luckily it is as confirmed as Jon being the son of a fisherwoman of the Vale. And it does matter even if they are "Targ Bastards". Bastards can be legitimized easy enough by a king. "He is our last hope". "No, there is another. And if his sister fails too we take one of the other 15 Jedis. They are all better trained anyway." Yes, that seems like good storytelling to me.
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Jul 15, 2011 08:29
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Finished the book today. Feels hard to believe it's been six years since I read Feast for Crows. I don't know if the payoff was worth the wait but at least I enjoyed the book. Theon chapters ruled. I really liked the CoK Theon chapters because the character is written with a distinct voice and perspective, and it really came out in the early chapters when the old Theon flashed out while treating with the ironborn even though internally he was a shattered man. Barristan the Bold also ruled. What a badass. I thought the Arya/Cersei/Jaime chapters were almost completely unnecessary in this one aside from resolving (some) cliffhangers left over from Feast. I would say the same about Victarion's chapters except that I think it makes sense the chapter where he meets Moqorro was saved for the book in which Moqorro was introduced. I actually liked Victarion stomping around in this book a lot more than the previous one. Davos getting to live was a nice touch but I kept looking for his chapters and was bummed not to see any in the second half of the book. Same with Bran; I never cared for him much as a character in earlier books but the few chapters he had in this one ended up interesting. Asha and Griff chapters were alright. I never cared for Asha as a character really and Jon Connington is a boring dude. Laughed at Quentyn Martell's storyline all the way through, but he probably shouldn't have been a POV character and if anything his storyline ruined all of the Dorne events in Feast. The three characters I was most excited to read (Jon, Dany, Tyrion) had the three worst storylines in the book. Tyrion rules when he has something to do or when he's thrown into the thick of things, but in this book he just got kicked around on the sidelines and eventually I lost hope of him doing anything important. Jon's plot was a little better and it was nice to see him in charge and doing his best to rebuild the wall, but his chapters were so repetitive that you could cut out half of them without losing much of the plot. Dany was the worst, and her storyline was just so frustrating to read. So many bad decisions! At least it ended with the hint that she'll be kicking some major rear end down the line. I haven't read these books close enough to talk about crazy theories but some of them are pretty interesting to read. Didn't know about Sandor still being alive until I read some of the earlier pages, for example.
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Jul 15, 2011 08:31
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Decius posted:Tyrion being a Targ completely takes away the meaning of him trying to get the approval of Tywin. Of Tywin denying being his son. It ruins a storyline that run for three books. It ruins the culmination of the storyline. It would be a completely dumb move. Luckily it is as confirmed as Jon being the son of a fisherwoman of the Vale. I disagree entirely, and in fact it makes perfect sense. It would be a great validation for Tyrion and wash his kinslayer guilt away, breaking him out of the current funk you all seem to hate so much. And I assume the other 15 Jedi were from the Expanded Universe, a large variety of terrible books written by a larger variety of terrible, terrible authors. That hardly places any blame on Lucas for poor storytelling.
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Jul 15, 2011 08:47
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I knew Kevan was dead as soon as I saw he was the epilogue pov. Even if you hated Dany chapters, you must admit the moment she finally got on a dragon was badass.
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Jul 15, 2011 09:20
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That mother fucker grrm killed Jon, I cant believe it, what a sadistic twisted man
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Jul 15, 2011 09:36
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More Melisandre chapters would be good. As would Barristan. Also Dany chapters are now worse than Catelyn chapters. Even though Aegon is mary sueish I hope that Dany dies somehow and Tyrion can be hand to Aegon. Jon's death wasn't a shocker because you know he is going to survive somehow. I can't wait for more Littlefinger info. You know he has to be planning something. Also the motivation of the Maesters would be cool. Science vs. magic, science should win. As others have pointed out Jon was definitely gay for Rhaeger. Interesting, but kind of pointless. Also how did Robert beat Rhaeger if he was such a great and perfect everything? I forgot the details of the Battle of the Trident did he trip or something? Goby fucked around with this message at 09:41 on Jul 15, 2011 |
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Jul 15, 2011 09:38
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Decius posted:Luckily it is as confirmed as Jon being the son of a fisherwoman of the Vale. No? That's just another rumor about Jon's mother. As far as we know, Ned is the only one who knows for absolute certainty who Jon's mother is. Howland Reed most likely knows and there are a few other maybes. Until there is an full reveal of Jon's mother by someone who actually knows or a Bran vision, then nothing is really confirmed.
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Jul 15, 2011 09:46
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I hope the next book opens with Jon's body being burned, and over the next two books he makes continuous attempts to communicate and influence events from being trapped inside Ghost where he jumped to escape death, but is invariably told to "Stop barking you stupid dog!" Eventually he throws himself off the top of the wall in frustration.
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Jul 15, 2011 09:58
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Denzer posted:I hope the next book opens with Jon's body being burned, and over the next two books he makes continuous attempts to communicate and influence events from being trapped inside Ghost where he jumped to escape death, but is invariably told to "Stop barking you stupid dog!" Better yet, he and Dany die. The dragons get killed after being used to defeat the others and all the prophecies and gods turn out to be false because the Maesters and Varys spread them and magic is eliminated from Westeros forever.
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Jul 15, 2011 10:24
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Darth Windu posted:echnically, none of the Lannister children are actually Targaryens, and neither is Jon. They are all just Targaryen bastards Pretty sure Jon is actually a legitimate Targ. There’s no reason that Rhaegar and Lyanna couldn’t have married secretly, and I think there’s precedent for Targs having multiple wives. And the kicker is that no less than three Kingsguard knights were at the Tower of Joy when Ned and co arrived. At this point in time, Aerys and Rhaegar are dead, and the Kingsguard should have been with the next in line to the throne, which would be Viserys and Dany. Unless of course they’re at the ToJ because there’s someone there whose claim to the throne trumps that of Viserys/Dany…
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Jul 15, 2011 10:48
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Goby posted:Better yet, he and Dany die. The dragons get killed after being used to defeat the others and all the prophecies and gods turn out to be false because the Maesters and Varys spread them and magic is eliminated from Westeros forever. This is what would happen if you let Goodkind write the rest of the series. That said, this sums up what Winds of Winter should be. Just replace Joffrey with Dany. http://youtu.be/rxLOXUGmRKI Liquid Communism fucked around with this message at 10:51 on Jul 15, 2011 |
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Jul 15, 2011 10:49
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Something I was thinking about, is Roose dead? I presume he went to battle along with Ramsay, the Freys and Manderly's guys. I don't see Roose letting Ramsay write inflamatory letters to people if he's still alive. Especially to people with armies however ragged. Maybe he dies in battle thanks to Manderly people killing him or possibly Ramsay did him in himself because I can't see Roose actually going to fight himself. I got the impression from the letter that Ramsay was off what little leash he had at that point and was wondering if the thought had struck anyone else.
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Jul 15, 2011 12:53
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Lawlicaust posted:No? That's just another rumor about Jon's mother. As far as we know, Ned is the only one who knows for absolute certainty who Jon's mother is. Howland Reed most likely knows and there are a few other maybes. Until there is an full reveal of Jon's mother by someone who actually knows or a Bran vision, then nothing is really confirmed. Yes, I meant with it that Tyrion's "secret Targ"-stuff is about as much hearsay and interpretation as the one about Jon's mother being a fisherwoman of the Vale. As in: Very, very unlikely.
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Jul 15, 2011 13:10
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Also just finished the book. Supporting the common view here: Dany's chapters sucked. Didn't care for most of the people in Meereen. The plot moved too slowly there. And yes, she seems to be going insane. Theon and Selmy were awesome. So Selmy fled King's Landing after being dismissed and then came back. How badass. Loved the revelation of Lord Manderly. Jon's chapters were ok. I liked Victarion. Somehow I have a weak for the ironborn. Sure they have lords, but they respect skill in battle just as much, if not more. It will be interesting to see how he is going to use the horn. Theon's chapters were awesome. The chapter names were done really good. I wish there was more Bran. More visions and cryptic prophecies for us to chew on. I think GRRM learned his lesson and made the current visions happen a couple of chapters later. Didn't notice Theon had his private parts cut off. Didn't notice Lemore = Ashara Dayne Did notice Abel = Mance but not immediately. Did figure out Rickon is on Skagos. Also, everything Mace Tyrell has ever said, was immediately followed by an iceburn thought from the POV. "Robb Stark is only a boy". - "He has won more battles at age 16 than you in your entire life." "Let him take Storm's End, I will take it back." - "You sieged it 3 times and failed 3 times." About secret Targs: Rhaegar predicted Aegon would be TPTWP. But the dragon has 3 heads. I always thought that Dany, Jon and Tyrion were going to be the dragonriders, but now we have Aegon back. As someone said before. He is too perfect to not die or have something horrible happen to him. Crackpot ideas: -Melisandre resurrects Jon, and realizes he is AA, renounces Stannis. More civil war in the north. -Wildlings plunder the Night's Watch armory. One of them toots the horn that was found at the Fist of the First Men. Wall come crashing down, especially because the horn was blown south of the Wall. -Dorne and the Golden Company rally together against Highgarden and the Lannisters. The Vale has the only army left worth something.
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Jul 15, 2011 13:12
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OperaMouse posted:
I thought I was the only one who suspects that. haha Guess he won't be dipping into Jeyne's pool. She will be turning tail and Bolton.
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Jul 15, 2011 13:23
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Decius posted:If any of the Lannisters turns out to be a secret Targ I would quit the series [...] With Jon Snow we are up to five surviving Targs Dany Aegon Jon Snow ??? Random thought: every time I read the word "spearwife" I have to remind myself that it's not Westerosi slang for a pre-op transsexual. Right, thank you. It's like the seventh King of Rome. VVVVV NihilCredo fucked around with this message at 15:02 on Jul 15, 2011 |
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Jul 15, 2011 14:11
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NihilCredo posted:Viserys Maester Aemon
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Jul 15, 2011 14:21
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I was really hoping the Hound would make a reappearance this book, no luck. 
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Jul 15, 2011 15:06
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Hemp Knight posted:Pretty sure Jon is actually a legitimate Targ. There’s no reason that Rhaegar and Lyanna couldn’t have married secretly, and I think there’s precedent for Targs having multiple wives. And the kicker is that no less than three Kingsguard knights were at the Tower of Joy when Ned and co arrived. At this point in time, Aerys and Rhaegar are dead, and the Kingsguard should have been with the next in line to the throne, which would be Viserys and Dany. I still am a supporter of the Jon = targ theory, but in Barristan's POV chapter he specifically mentioned that the Kingsguard has been known to guard family members of the King or their mistresses and that it is really up to the King to decide who gets protection. I missed the Rickon is on Skagos theory. Anyone care to elaborate?
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Jul 15, 2011 15:18
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I'm confused about one thing: why are people saying Bran "sacrificed" the Reeds and Hodor to gain warg powers? It seemed more like they were hanging out bored, not that they were in any danger. It's entirely possible I just missed something here, as I kind of skimmed over Bran's stuff.
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Jul 15, 2011 15:37
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And Bloodraven. Six Targs.
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Jul 15, 2011 15:40
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Fuckers killed Jon! Not cool! Do I think he's permanently dead? No. I don't know if he'll be resurrected by Melisandre, or if he'll just warg into Ghost and then possibly slip into someone else later on, but I have a pretty strong feeling he's coming back. Damnit, now I want the next one to come out, and it's probably going to be 2-6 years away.
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Jul 15, 2011 15:41
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YorexTheMad posted:I'm confused about one thing: why are people saying Bran "sacrificed" the Reeds and Hodor to gain warg powers? It seemed more like they were hanging out bored, not that they were in any danger. It's entirely possible I just missed something here, as I kind of skimmed over Bran's stuff. I THINK what happened there was, a dude got an early copy and was posting spoilers on towerofthehand, but English was his second language, and he said they were 'sacrificed' when what he probably meant was 'they're bored, depressed and scared and not going anywhere any time soon, but Bran doesn't give a poo poo.' Christ Pseudoscientist posted:I missed the Rickon is on Skagos theory. Anyone care to elaborate? Davos' last chapter ended with him realizing he has to go to 'that place with all the cannibals,' which I think Skagos has been previously stated as being. Of course in this book pretty much everyone is a cannibal, so frankly I don't see what the big deal is.
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Jul 15, 2011 15:45
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Christ Pseudoscientist posted:I missed the Rickon is on Skagos theory. Anyone care to elaborate? When Wex points the dagger to the map where Rickon is, Davon thinks something like that he would rather go back to the dungeon, because at least there they didn't eat human flesh. Skagos is one of the few places we know that cannibals live, at least it is rumored so. It also makes for a perfect hiding place: on the of the most isolated parts of the continent, while still being technically south of the Wall. Also, Osha and the wild Rickon with Shaggydog would fit right in, I think.
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Jul 15, 2011 15:45
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Christ Pseudoscientist posted:I missed the Rickon is on Skagos theory. Anyone care to elaborate? It's when Wyman sends Davos to smuggle back the last remaining Stark child. We know they can't have seen Bran as he's north of the Wall, so that leaves Rickon. Davos says something about not wanting to go someplace where the people are cannibals, and Skagos has a history of cannibalism. Basically just connecting dots there. YorexTheMad posted:I'm confused about one thing: why are people saying Bran "sacrificed" the Reeds and Hodor to gain warg powers? It seemed more like they were hanging out bored, not that they were in any danger. It's entirely possible I just missed something here, as I kind of skimmed over Bran's stuff. Fake spoilers. OperaMouse posted:-Wildlings plunder the Night's Watch armory. One of them toots the horn that was found at the Fist of the First Men. Wall come crashing down, especially because the horn was blown south of the Wall. Sam has the horn, Jon sent it with him when he sent Sam and Aemon away, probably suspecting that it was Joramun's horn.
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Jul 15, 2011 15:46
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Frey pies aside, was I the only one who thought GRRM was setting us up for Manderly having poisoned the wedding feast?
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Jul 15, 2011 15:59
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