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OperaMouse posted:When Wex points the dagger to the map where Rickon is, Davon thinks something like that he would rather go back to the dungeon, because at least there they didn't eat human flesh. Skagos is one of the few places we know that cannibals live, at least it is rumored so. 
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Jul 15, 2011 16:09
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Just finished. I liked Jon Snow, Bran, Davos, and the little bit of Jaime we saw. Also, I seriously liked Connington, too bad he got a death sentence. I enjoyed seeing Mereen though Selmy's eyes. It was a refreshing take. Dany didn't bother me so much. I teach teenagers, and she pretty much was acting like one. I get the feeling that the world would be a better place if she just took all her people out of Mereen and burned it to the ground, along with Yunkai and Astapor. Pretty much destroy the world's slave trade in one blow, and take that momentum with you to Westeros. My only question for the book: I feel like Tyrion revealed something important about Brown Ben Plumm, but I couldn't parse it. Help?
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Jul 15, 2011 16:26
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Am I the only one who really wants to know how to play cyvasse now?
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Jul 15, 2011 16:32
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PT6A posted:Am I the only one who really wants to know how to play cyvasse now? You sunk my Dragon!
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Jul 15, 2011 16:33
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Ray_ posted:1. Jon Connington seems to think so. He specifically thinks "I failed the father (Rhaegar) but I won't fail his son." It's possible that Varys deceived him, of course, but he'd have to find another child extremely close in age and with the Targ coloring. Not only that, but he'd have to have known for certain that the kid would develop the Targ coloring since obviously hair color isn't showing as an infant. Not an easy thing to come by, and that'd an awfully long and dangerous con Varys would be running. This. It coudl be that Connington was so distraught over losing at Stony Sept that he would will himself to see coloration that wasn't there, but judging by how quickly tyrion picked up on the features, I'd say this is not possible. Unless Varys has some kind of future sight, it's very very likely Aegon is the potential Aegon VI
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Jul 15, 2011 16:34
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PT6A posted:Am I the only one who really wants to know how to play cyvasse now? Isn't it just chess with different names?
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Jul 15, 2011 16:44
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Christ Pseudoscientist posted:I still am a supporter of the Jon = targ theory, but in Barristan's POV chapter he specifically mentioned that the Kingsguard has been known to guard family members of the King or their mistresses and that it is really up to the King to decide who gets protection. Aerys would never send his 3 best guards away whether for an heir or anything else. Remember he thought even his son was looking to kill him and take the throne for himself. He must also have still been king when the Kingsguard left since they weren't there when Jaime killed him. I can't see how he'd value a potential heir over himself, especially with Aegon still in KL (He'd be first in line to the throne even if Lyanna had a legitimate kid). I guess they could have taken orders from Rhaegar, who probably figured they were more needed at a defenseless tower than in the capital. I can't see why they'd be at the ToJ if their duty was to guard the heir or they followed the orders of Aerys.
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Jul 15, 2011 16:49
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Aegon meeting Daenerys would have potential. He has the best claim to the throne, but she has dragons  Assuming of course that Aegon isn't the Mummer's Dragon and fake.
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Jul 15, 2011 16:50
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Kainser posted:Aegon meeting Daenerys would have potential. He has the best claim to the throne, but she has dragons He is the mummer's dragon because Varys is the mummer, but he could still be fake.
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Jul 15, 2011 16:53
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Gully Foyle posted:Isn't it just chess with different names? No, it sounds like it has more complex rules. It actually sounds like one of those nerdy adult board games like the Game of Thrones one. I want to learn to play too.
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Jul 15, 2011 16:58
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I like to imagine it's like a game of stratego but with dragons.
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Jul 15, 2011 17:00
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Sounds like that version of chess bobby fisher advocated where you either had a random distribution of the back row or you could set up your back row yourself. Edit: http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chess960 Smiling Jack fucked around with this message at 17:08 on Jul 15, 2011 |
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Jul 15, 2011 17:04
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Gully Foyle posted:Isn't it just chess with different names? That's what I thought, but there are scenes where they arrange their opening positions THEN start playing the game. Chess has the same starting board every time. Smiling Jack posted:Sounds like that version of chess bobby fisher advocated where you either had a random distribution of the back row or you could set up your back row yourself. Yeah, this.
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Jul 15, 2011 17:07
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It sounded like there might be different kinds of terrain, too. (I'm sure someone will go through every book and design a version of cyvasse based on existing board games. That person is not me but I wish them luck)
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Jul 15, 2011 17:10
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It seems like a mix of chess and stratego. -limited number of pieces (dragons (multiple types?), elephants, crossbow men, light and heavy cavalry, mountains, ...) -the pieces have different range, value and "special moves". Dragons are probably similar to queens in chess. Also mountains seem to be immovable. -you can set up the board hidden from the opponent at the beginning of the game. Doesn't seem that hard to come up with some rules for that.
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Jul 15, 2011 17:21
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It was interesting to see the parallels between Jon and Robb's deaths, most notably that they both got stabbed by a former ally and both have their wolves freak the gently caress out and thought "Welp, better keep them locked up and well away from me!!!" Overall I enjoyed the book but am left pissed off at the lack of payoff from most of the plotlines. Bran and Davos disappear before the book's halfway point and Stannis seems to be camped outside Winterfell for half the book and the most we get is Ramsay's letter, which is obviously hyperbole. That said, my guess is that Roose led an attack against Stannis outside the walls of Winterfell, but Stannis won and killed/captured Roose, while Ramsay escaped back to Winterfell. Someone earlier on pointed out that Roose wouldn't have let Ramsay send that letter and I'm inclined to agree, which suggests Roose is out of the picture. Hmm, I don't think the Manderlys would have joined the attack against Stannis if it came to that and it's possible Alys Karstark might have interfered to make sure the Karstark men didn't betray Stannis as well. I guess we'll find out in ten years from now, though.
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Jul 15, 2011 17:28
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Ten years. Your optimism is so touching and naive, reminding me of the innocent boy I once was, when the world was full of wonder and excitement and discovery. We're like a violent delusional mental patient who is given a new drug regimen, blessed with a brief moment of sanity before the inevitable descent into glorious madness, scratching at the walls of our cells before gnawing off our own fingers. Our burial shroud will be a Jets jersey, our final meal a lemoncake that exists only in our fevered mind. There is no next book. There is no glorious climax, no resolving of plot threads, no conclusion. No end. Only winter and lemoncakes, cannibalism and wild cards. And pork pies... ladyfingers they taste like ladyfingers Smiling Jack fucked around with this message at 17:57 on Jul 15, 2011 |
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Jul 15, 2011 17:53
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What's the story with Jon/Mormont's raven? It's pretty clearly not just a raven, especially with the heavy handed 'Hey it said my first name I don't remember teaching it that' bit. Whose warg is it? Also, which are there more of at this point -- secret Targs or secret wargs?
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Jul 15, 2011 17:56
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regulargonzalez posted:What's the story with Jon/Mormont's raven? It's pretty clearly not just a raven, especially with the heavy handed 'Hey it said my first name I don't remember teaching it that' bit. Whose warg is it? Also, which are there more of at this point -- secret Targs or secret wargs? I'm starting to wonder if the targs warged into dragons, which would really make Jon the ultimate secret Targ. Also, can anyone list all the confirmed targs-who-lived?
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Jul 15, 2011 17:58
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Double post
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Jul 15, 2011 17:59
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I actually think the next book will come out in a timely fashion. SOS and FFC seemed to give him a lot of trouble (he specifically said they hosed with his mental plan), but presumably he's past the worst of it now. Also, who knows how long HBO-related stuff kept him away from writing? He probably didn't want to say anything until it was a sure thing, but I'm guessing he probably had at least two years of involvement with it before the show came to air.
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Jul 15, 2011 18:00
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regulargonzalez posted:What's the story with Jon/Mormont's raven? It's pretty clearly not just a raven, especially with the heavy handed 'Hey it said my first name I don't remember teaching it that' bit. Whose warg is it? Also, which are there more of at this point -- secret Targs or secret wargs?
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Jul 15, 2011 18:02
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He did write some stuff for A Dance With Dragons that was pushed back into the next book so at least he has some stuff already written. Unfortunately some of it is Brienne chapters.
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Jul 15, 2011 18:05
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So I don't really understand the point of the whole Karstark girl in grey. Did I miss something, or is this probably just pawns being moved into place?
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Jul 15, 2011 18:15
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Christ Pseudoscientist posted:He did write some stuff for A Dance With Dragons that was pushed back into the next book so at least he has some stuff already written. Unfortunately some of it is Brienne chapters. Well, and also he had stuff for THIS book written when the LAST book came out and it didn't help him any. The books have obviously gotten loads more popular since the show started, and I wonder what sort of effect that will have. Will the broader fan base (and pressure from HBO/his publisher) spur him to write more, or will the loads of money he undoubtedly has now make him even lazier about writing?
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Jul 15, 2011 18:17
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HelixFox posted:It was interesting to see the parallels between Jon and Robb's deaths, most notably that they both got stabbed by a former ally and both have their wolves freak the gently caress out and thought "Welp, better keep them locked up and well away from me!!!" There seems to be something suspicious about the letter. Didn't it lack a seal and also the marks of all the other Northern lords? If so, it differs from Ramsay's previous letters. On a similar note, it lacks Ramsay's signature piece of flayed skin, which he probably would have included had he killed Stannis. Instead, he claims to have Stannis's magic sword. Secondly, there's something off with the chronology. We know Stannis is 3 days away from Winterfell, so provided that Tycho properly informed him that the Karstarks were traitorous (which seems to be a given at this point), that means he eliminated the Karstark backstab with plenty of time to prepare for the battle. Most importantly, with fake Arya in hand, there is no reason to storm Winterfell. So what actually happened? I think the Boltons believed Stannis was encamped right outside the gates and sent out Manderley and Freys accordingly. Somehow, the Manderleys and Umbers butchered the Freys and informed Stannis 3 days away. As proof of his death, they couldn't bring a body, but were able to borrow his sword. Stannis and co. retreated to Torrhen's square, and the Manderleys brought the sword back to Winterfell. 3 days to get there, 1 day planning, and 3 days going back. 7 days of battle.
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Jul 15, 2011 18:24
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Gully Foyle posted:Isn't it just chess with different names? Actually it sounds a lot like Xiangqi, which is both less abstract and more complex than Western chess.
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Jul 15, 2011 18:26
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Lenin Stimpy posted:So I don't really understand the point of the whole Karstark girl in grey. Did I miss something, or is this probably just pawns being moved into place? Jon helped her claim her place as lady of Karhold and head of the Karstarks. Previously the Karstarks were all pissed off at the Starks because Robb executed their lord and so they all ran off and later defected. Jon's actions with Alys have likely assured the Karstarks' loyalty when the real Starks rise again (which could be Rickon making an appearance or Sansa declaring herself and the Vale marching to take the north) I'm really looking forward to when the Vale finally gets involved in the action. They've been almost completely untouched by the war and AFFC showed us that most of the lords there had a huge boner for rushing to Robb's aid and were only stopped by Lysa, so when they're let off the leash it's going to be awesome. HelixFox fucked around with this message at 18:32 on Jul 15, 2011 |
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Jul 15, 2011 18:30
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Presumably the Vale is just waiting on the kid's death, which is likely to be soon either from the whole epilepsy thing or from Littlefinger and his marrying Harry/Sansa plan. Speaking of Littlefinger, kinda funny little aside when someone (Cersei, I think?) mentions he volunteered to marry Sansa right back at the beginning of the story. Not surprising, really.
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Jul 15, 2011 18:36
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The only contrivance that really annoyed me about this book was Jon's complacency, especially with the knowledge of how his predecessor died. Every single Jon chapter had him repeatedly spitting in the faces of his closest and most powerful brothers, while simultaneously ignoring Melisandre's warnings to check himself before he wrecks himself.
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Jul 15, 2011 18:43
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The maesters are starting to remind me of the Bene Gesserit. The thing with Lady Dustin saying the maesters are the ones that arranged the Stark-Tully marriage just reeked (heh) of the great House breeding program the Bene Gesserit maintained. Jon is the Kwisatz Haderach. Man, the way people were throwing around the Jojen, Meera, Hodor = dead spoiler really convinced me it was true. OperaMouse posted:Didn't notice Lemore = Ashara Dayne OperaMouse posted:-Wildlings plunder the Night's Watch armory. One of them toots the horn that was found at the Fist of the First Men. Wall come crashing down, especially because the horn was blown south of the Wall. bengraven posted:I thought I was the only one who suspects that. haha  I'm surprised that anyone had any trouble figuring out the Mance = Abel thing. We knew Mance was on his way to Winterfell to rescue "Arya", that he was bringing several women with him, and that he's snuck into Winterfell disguised as a singer when Robert came north in AGOT. When a singer shows up at Winterfell (doesn't happen often, especially when Winterfell is a loving abandoned ruin. Red flag!) with several women in tow, I didn't even think there was anything to figure out - the only way it could be more obvious was if Abel had a name tag on saying "Hi, my name is MANCE." When the women he brought with him start talking exactly like wildlings, well, that might as well have been a name tag. I'm not saying anyone's dumb or anything, and I'm not being condescending, I'm just legitimately surprised anyone had any trouble ID'ing Abel as Mance. OperaMouse posted:About secret Targs: Rhaegar predicted Aegon would be TPTWP. But the dragon has 3 heads. I always thought that Dany, Jon and Tyrion were going to be the dragonriders, but now we have Aegon back. As someone said before. He is too perfect to not die or have something horrible happen to him. Also, if anyone missed it: Rhaegar probably loved Lyanna, but the reason he forsook Elia was because the maesters said she couldn't have any more kids after she had Aegon. The dragon must have three heads. And poor Elia could only give head twice.
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Jul 15, 2011 18:47
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Now that I'm finished I can return to the Internet. Only had a few problems getting rolling, but once I was about a quarter in the book seemed to be chugging along pretty well. I liked that the majority of the plotlines were focused on The Race to Meereen and The War in the North, but the resolution of those plots within this book is just as blueballsey as the endings in Feast. Jon, Dany & Tyrion chapters dominated the book in terms of overall page count, but I think the real gems are what we get from the characters around them. Jon - Does a good job of realizing that the true enemy is not the wildlings but the Others, does a terrible job of convincing his Brothers to accept the wildlings. His "death" was abrupt, but he's not going to stay down with the Melisandre there. Her POV chapter was interesting, but I wonder why there was only one of them, it would have been nice to have more than just Jon's POV dealing with settling the free folk / dealing with the Queen / etc. Tyrion - A good way to reveal Aegon without getting to stick with him. The bit with Penny & her pets was a bit unnecessary. Tyrion's arc has been all about getting poo poo on after The Battle of the Blackwater, and this book continued that tradition. It's always nice to see the clever little bastard conning his way into a better position though. Dany - Was more painful than she had been in the past. I actually liked her chapters through SoS, but here she was "only a young girl and know(ing) litle of such things" Things have fallen apart since she took Meereen, and this is nowhere more apparent than in what happens with the dragons... and that poo poo with Dario... ugh. The best part to come out of Dany's plotline is giving us a Barristan POV. No one - Not much from her here, but I like the girl and seeing her get a clean crafty kill is nice. I still wonder where this training of hers is going to take her. Bran - His story moves so slowly. I feel bad for the kid and his destiny though... and that of his doomed friends. The War in the North - Love the Theon chapters, rhymes with meek, Ramsey is truly a bastard, and his father is not much better. From the Intrigues of White Harbor to King Stannis' march on Deepwood Motte everything converges on the wedding and battle at Winterfell. Unfortunately, the resolution to this battle is unknown aside from a (quite unreliable) letter from Ramsey. Going to be fun waiting another six years, speculating and coming up with theories. The Race to Meereen - We've got Prince Burnvictim, Aegon & Connington, Victarion, Tyrion and Jorah all trying to get to Meereen (and Dany's Dragons) at the start of the book. I was pretty meh with Victarion during Feast, but things seem to pick up after he picks up the Red Priest and goes  on the slavers. That Lung Burning Horn of Dragon Binding has Dany written all over it, and the sooner she gets those dragons under control the better. The Dornish Prince was a good tragic arc. I liked seeing Prince Aegon listen to Tyrion and choose to move on Westeros.Epilogue Oh Varys, you magnificent bastard, Kevan was the only decent one of them. He's definitely been playing the long con throughout. I'm glad that poo poo happened in this book in ways that poo poo did not happen in Feast. It'll be interesting to see how Littlefinger adapts to the changes (Aegon) in the game though. I'm looking forward to the next book (whenever it comes out), just to see how he starts wrapping things up. doctor thodt posted:The only contrivance that really annoyed me about this book was Jon's complacency, especially with the knowledge of how his predecessor died. Every single Jon chapter had him repeatedly spitting in the faces of his closest and most powerful brothers, while simultaneously ignoring Melisandre's warnings to check himself before he wrecks himself. He's still Ned's "son", stubborn and blinded by doing the "right" thing.
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Jul 15, 2011 18:52
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Slackarius posted:He's still Ned's "son", stubborn and blinded by doing the "right" thing. Jon's been shown to have at least a modicum of cunning. For instance, Ned would have died in the Skerling Pass right alongside the Halfhand. It's just that after everything he's been through, you'd expect him to exhibit a little caution and suspicion. Maybe it's just me but I feel like it's more a fundamental flaw of Gurm's writing than of Jon's character.
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Jul 15, 2011 19:00
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Yeah, I can't really argue with that. It's frustrating to see that Ides of March moment coming with Jon doing nothing to prevent it, despite having the warnings of Melisandre and Ghost. Hell, he basically does the exact same poo poo as Robb by burning the other older "lords" of the Night's Watch.
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Jul 15, 2011 19:04
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Ray_ posted:If Tyrion is a secret Targ (I've thought so for a while regardless of how dumb it'd be narratively), he'd definitely be a bastard. Dany, Aegon, and Jon would not be bastards - it's assumed Rhaegar would have married Lyanna since he specifically had sex with her to give birth to a 3rd child. I'm actually suspecting he didn't love Lyanna. I think he was playing the game to try and create the PTWP. He wants to make an uber Targ. Also I think Aegon being alive is the reason Dany saw that vision. I think that was Rhaegar telling her "don't push him to the side when you come into power in Westeros, you need him".
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Jul 15, 2011 19:17
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Slackarius posted:Prince Burnvictim One of the bigger disappointments for me. I was expecting a young Red Viper. The dark scheming mysterious southern lord. Full of lust, and not afraid to use some poison. Now it was just a sad story of a kid in way over his head, trying to do the impossible task his father gave him, for which he was completely unprepared.
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Jul 15, 2011 19:18
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bengraven posted:I'm actually suspecting he didn't love Lyanna. I think he was playing the game to try and create the PTWP. He wants to make an uber Targ. But in the House of the Undying vision, Rhaegar flat out says that Aegon is the PTWP, so why would he need to make PTWP 2: More Promiseder?
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Jul 15, 2011 20:11
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Kainser posted:Aegon meeting Daenerys would have potential. He has the best claim to the throne, but she has dragons I can see her screwing it up and marrying that Khal she just found. Reminder of who exactly she is: ADWD posted:“I smell of you,” he (Daario) said, sniffing at his fingers and grinning. Also, this sounds almost exactly like Cersei holding court: quote:Inevitably it was Galazza Galare who stepped forward, her head held high, her face hidden behind a shimmering green veil. “Your Radiance, it might be best were we to speak in private.” She's angry and indignant that her advisors wants to talk to her in private about how Daario has been acting. This is an example of his behavior: quote:On the day that he returned from his latest sortie, he had tossed the head of a Yunkish lord at her feet and kissed her in the hall for all the world to see, until Barristan Selmy pulled the two of them apart. Ser Grandfather had been so wroth that Dany feared blood might be shed.
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Jul 15, 2011 20:19
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Teenagers. That's why you don't let them rule more than a High School council meeting. See Jon Snow, Robb Stark and Joffrey Baratheon for additional examples of it. Yeah, she reminds me a lot of Cersei in her behaviour, an additional reason why I don't like the Mereen stuff. And unless she changes her tone when ruling Westeros she will have another usurper on her hands come next summer.
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Jul 15, 2011 20:30
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Ray_ posted:I can see her screwing it up and marrying that Khal she just found. quote:"I swear it by the Mother of Mountains and the Womb of the World. Before I am done with them, Mago and Ko Jhaqo will plead for the mercy they showed Eroeh."
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Jul 15, 2011 20:31
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