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literallyincredible posted:on my reread of the series I was kinda shocked how much Marwyn gets mentioned. Its also notable that *every* person who cites him as a mentor is an evil gently caress who uses horrible necromancy and blood magic. I'm 100% positive he's set to be a villainous figure. ... Add "when the sun has set [some source of light] cannot compare". Now, on the one hand, I can see Loras earnestly spouting a cliche while believing his purely pure lovely love was special enough to justify it... but when you get that on every freaking page.... well.
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Jul 17, 2011 19:37
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literallyincredible posted:Aegon is nowhere near a perfect prince and its pretty obvious throughout Dance. He's pretty and well-educated and a good swordsmen, but he has zero political or military acumen and its obvious that for all Varys insists Aegon doesn't see the throne as his "right", that the dude is seriously entitled. The scene where Tyrion owns him at cyvasse while explaining all the flaws in his plan of action, and its obvious Aegon hasn't even thought about this poo poo, is really illuminating. So yeah, that's the problem. It's not Aegon's plan, Aegon's ideas, Aegon's beliefs; it's Varys' plan, Connington's ideas, Lemore's beliefs.
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Jul 17, 2011 19:40
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Xander77 posted:Oh? I don't remember that. The two people who cite Marwyn as a teacher are Mirri Maaz Dur and Qyburn. The former isn't pure evil, but the magic she performs definitely seems pretty twisted, and Qyburn is like Josef Mengele with magic powers.
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Jul 17, 2011 19:43
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kazil posted:Well Tyrion calls Lemore more handsome than pretty. quote:Connington didn't so much fake his death as he left his life behind and people assumed he was dead. Ashara supposedly flung herself from a tower, didn't she? Connington posted:So far as most of them were concerned, Connington had drunk himself to death in Lys after being driven from the company in disgrace for stealing from the war chest. The shame of the lie still stuck in his craw, but Varys had insisted it was necessary. “We want no songs about the gallant exile,” the eunuch had tittered, in that mincing voice of his. “Those who die heroic deaths are long remembered, thieves and drunks and cravens soon forgotten.” quote:Tyrion marks her past 40. Wasn't Ned mid-30s? I couldn't off on that, been a while since I read AGoT. quote:Referring to her as lady could be a courtesy or even a joke.  There's never been another septa referred to with the title "Lady" in any of the books. "Lady" is specifically reserved for women of noble birth even if they don't officially hold a Ladyship. Sansa is called Lady all the time, even though she doesn't hold a Ladyship title. I really do think her being called "Lady Lemore" is a huge hint/clue. quote:Ser Rolly Duckfield seems to be exactly who he claims to be, just some dude that Connington knighted. Think is, Lemore doesn't even have a story. She never says what or how a septa from Westeros is doing halfway around the world raising an exiled and hidden prince. She has to be SOMEONE.
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Jul 17, 2011 19:51
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So ADWD was pretty good. Better than Feast, not as good as the reviews made it out to be (several moments on the level of the red wedding? Are you kidding me?) Way too much Dany (god is she insufferable throughout most of it), way too much Jon, way too much Tyrion. I did enjoy Tyrion's story with Ilyrio and Griff and Co. (and somewhat Jorah Mormont) but once he met Penny it really plodded. 1 Jaime chapter isn't enough, and surprisingly I wanted more Cersei, Davos and Wyman Manderly. (Loved his Frey  )Theon probably had the strongest arc, and boy oh boy is Ramsay a cartoonishly evil rear end in a top hat. Easily one of the most hateable characters Martin has written as of yet. Areo Hotah's one-off chapter was my favorite in the book, and glad to see that Quentyn is only one small part of Doran's master plan. More Dorne! It was interesting to find out that Melisandre's schtick isn't phony- and that she believes in what's she's doing. Lots of R'hllor this book. Am I crazy for saying this book suffered without Sansa/Littlefinger?
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Jul 17, 2011 19:51
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quote:Am I crazy for saying this book suffered without Sansa/Littlefinger? I liked the Sansa chapters in Feast, but much like Sam, we have a pretty good sense of what is happening with that plotline during the events of Dance. We know LF's master plan, we know it will take some time to pull off, and we know that in the meantime he's got the Vale pretty well in hand.
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Jul 17, 2011 19:58
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Decius posted:Jon might have deluded himself into "it's just me", but that doesn't mean the others see it the same way. He is the Lord Commander after all, and even if he alienated a lot of people he also has people who follow him (even if he sent many of them away). Even if it were "just him", that is still explicitly disallowed. Think back to Maester Aemon's speech to Jon in AGOT, how on three separate occasions he had to forgo coming to the aid of his family because of his vows. Gotta think that holds triply true for the Lord Commander of the Night's Watch. Jon CAN NOT go on a personal mission.
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Jul 17, 2011 20:02
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For what it's worth, the following passage made me really like Aegon and think he may indeed have the makings of a good king in him:quote:A solid man, and true, Connington thought as he watched Duck dismount, but not worthy of the Kingsguard. He had tried his best to dissuade the prince from giving Duckfield that cloak, pointing out that the honor might best be held in reserve for warriors of greater renown whose fealty would add luster to their cause, and the younger sons of great lords whose support they would need in the coming struggle, but the boy would not be moved. “Duck will die for me if need be,” he had said, “and that’s all I require in my Kingsguard. The Kingslayer was a warrior of great renown, and the son of a great lord as well.”  The biggest strike against the L = A theory is that Tyrion, horny or not, could hardly have failed to notice her violet eyes, which in a Westerosi woman make for a pretty short list of possibilities. VVVVVV NihilCredo fucked around with this message at 20:09 on Jul 17, 2011 |
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Jul 17, 2011 20:06
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Ray_ posted:She's older, of course she's lost some of her beauty. A) People were saying "Ashara was beautiful, Lemore is beautiful, thus..." I was just saying she's not described as beautiful. B) That's exactly my point. Connington didn't fake his death, he just went into hiding and everyone assumed he was dead. C) Many people of common birth are called Lord, I don't see why someone couldn't be called Lady without being a noble. D) I think a lot of people assume that anyone in the company of Aegon would be some secret lord of great power and influence. I think Duck pretty much shows that Connington is willing to let regular people around Aegon. E) Did the Halfmaester have a story? Does that make him someone important that died 15 years ago? In the end, I just think it's really retarded for everyone to be someone. If there were solid evidence pointing to Lemore being Ashara, I'd agree with it, but at this point it's just a shot in the dark so three books later someone can say "See I told you so!"
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Jul 17, 2011 20:07
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Cervixalot posted:Am I crazy for saying this book suffered without Sansa/Littlefinger? No, I feel the same. Especially in AFFC the Sansa chapter became some of my favourite, even the ASOS/ACOK were pretty good the Dontos-stuff aside. But then, I also liked the Cat-chapters this time around. Rather 50 chapters of Littlefinger teaching Sansa how to play the game and creep out over a fourteen year old than Dany loving things up and pining for Daario.
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Jul 17, 2011 20:17
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Diving Buttress posted:I get the making of Varys and Illyrio's plot: Raise Aegon to be king in secret. Use Viserys and his secret marriage pact with Arianne of Dorne, and marry Daenerys to Khal Drogo. When the time comes, they'll have the Dothraki and Dorne's army to retake the throne for Aegon. Only problem is the whole "raising Aegon in secret" thing. Did they expect Viserys to just quietly stand aside when he's believed all this life that he's the heir? Even if he didn't turn out batshit crazy, he'd still be a little upset. The Others are coming. The Night's Watch won't be enough to hold them back. The rest of the realm believes they are legends told to children. The only thing that can stop them is dragons. And the only ones who can call forth dragons are Targaryns. Their plan amounts to a series of hail mary passes at long shots of getting someone who has an affinity for the beasts in charge and getting them a chance at hatching their eggs. Very long odds to be sure, but when the choice is a huge gamble and extinction, you take the gamble.
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Jul 17, 2011 20:37
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Thinking back to AGOT, it's significant that it was Illyrio who gave the eggs to Dany in the first place. She wasn't just some displaced royal who he might get a favor out of one day (as I thought in the first book), but rather a member of a grand plan to put the Targs back into power. I wonder if he had any idea that she would hatch those eggs. Even if the ultimate goal is to unite the realm for a Targ to come fight the Others (which I'm not convinced either Varys or Illyrio know or care about), the eggs are a loving long shot. Ray_ posted:The whole way it all went down seemed crazy. What was with the giant killing Ser Patrek? Wonder if it had to do with Seleyse arranging Val's marriage to him? I didn't get that either. Very weird, as the giant seemed relatively peaceful unless specifically provoked. quote:Hell yes, a fellow LSU fan? Hell yes! The wife is an alumnus and I've lived here most of my life. Seems like most of LA goons are in NOLA instead of BR, though.
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Jul 17, 2011 20:58
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withak posted:Probably he was taking everyone's advice and trying to "steal" her, not realizing that it wasn't just a formality and that there would be a giant on guard duty. I was pretty much thinking the same thing. Although I wonder if that was a poorly timed incident that just happened to occur during the Ides of Marsh.
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Jul 17, 2011 21:10
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Xander77 posted:How could anyone enjoy the Brann chapters? Agreed, I've been skim reading them since Clash. They bore me rigid.
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Jul 17, 2011 21:12
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Slackarius posted:the Ides of Marsh. My first reaction upon reading this line was to groan loudly, then to secretly hope this catches on in the fanspeak. Ugh and bravo.
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Jul 17, 2011 21:26
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kazil posted:I think Duck pretty much shows that Connington is willing to let regular people around Aegon. kazil posted:That's exactly my point. Connington didn't fake his death, he just went into hiding and everyone assumed he was dead. How is that not faking his death? kazil posted:In the end, I just think it's really retarded for everyone to be someone. If there were solid evidence pointing to Lemore being Ashara, I'd agree with it, but at this point it's just a shot in the dark so three books later someone can say "See I told you so!" Personally speaking though, I've been thinking that Ashara was alive for like 10+ years - ever since we learned the manner of her "death" and the fact that no body was ever found. For me, it's not a case of thinking everyone has to be someone. Before ADWD, I came up with a theory that Ashara absconded with Baby Aegon. Aegon being revealed to be alive and to have been partly raised by an attractive Westerosi that people around called "Lady"...well, it begins to fit in with my theory. If you're interested, this is what I had come up with: Ray_ posted:For anyone that's interested, this was my pet theory about Ashara Dayne I came up with before ADWD: Edit: Thing is, none of us know who she really is or if she's anyone at all. Tyrion mentions it being a mystery at one point and she simply seems like more than just a common-born septa. Ray_ fucked around with this message at 21:31 on Jul 17, 2011 |
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Jul 17, 2011 21:26
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If Ashara is Lenore then Ned was probably knee deep in the conspiracy. If I remember correctly after the ToJ he want to Starfall, where the Dayne's live shortly before Ashara jumped into the Sea. Did he meet the young Aegon there and realize there was still two claimants to the throne and help arrange them to be hidden?
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Jul 17, 2011 21:38
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Who is Rowan? For a spearwife, she really loving hates Theon and seems to be very familiar with the Stark household.quote:Theon spun, terrified that Ramsay had found him, but it was just the washerwomen—Holly, Rowan, and one whose name he did not know. “The ghosts,” he blurted. “They whisper to me. They ... they know my name.” quote:Rowan pulled Theon away from the north-men praying before the tree, to a secluded spot back by the barracks wall, beside a pool of warm mud that stank of rotten eggs. Even the mud was icing up about the edges, Theon saw. “Winter is coming ...” She also knows who Arya is (though not her face), refers to her as "Lady Arya", and calls Theon a kinslayer. Brannock fucked around with this message at 22:02 on Jul 17, 2011 |
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Jul 17, 2011 21:56
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Xae posted:If Ashara is Lenore then Ned was probably knee deep in the conspiracy. If I remember correctly after the ToJ he want to Starfall, where the Dayne's live shortly before Ashara jumped into the Sea. Did he meet the young Aegon there and realize there was still two claimants to the throne and help arrange them to be hidden? Kind of. He was definitely in on the conspiracy to save the kids' lives, but he definitely was not in on the greater conspiracy to restore the Targs. Ned was just a noble guy who did what he thought was right (see: quitting as Hand when Robert sent an assassin after Dany). He didn't consider the ultimate consequences of his actions though (giving Cersei a chance to leave, for example). The funny thing about the Stark modus operandi, though, is that in the extreme long run, they seem to have much more loyal friends than everyone else. Like the Manderlys, the Reeds, Umbers, Mormonts, etc. Even the mountain clans respect the Starks. Down south, drat near everyone has switched allegiance 10 times. lapse fucked around with this message at 22:54 on Jul 17, 2011 |
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Jul 17, 2011 22:49
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When I got to the part where Tyrion meets Penny and rides the pig all I could think of was Peter Dinklage reading it and giving a long, slow, mournful sigh.
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Jul 17, 2011 22:52
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Gangringo posted:When I got to the part where Tyrion meets Penny and rides the pig all I could think of was Peter Dinklage reading it and giving a long, slow, mournful sigh. I feel so bad for the poor dude playing Theon. He must have read the original scripts and been like "Aw yeah! Smart rear end wanna be knight guy that gets laid a lot and is awesome with a bow, like that dude from Lord of the Rings! This is gonna be rad!" I pictured him reading the first Reek chapter in DWD and immediately calling his agent.
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Jul 17, 2011 22:58
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Gangringo posted:When I got to the part where Tyrion meets Penny and rides the pig all I could think of was Peter Dinklage reading it and giving a long, slow, mournful sigh. I laughed as hard at that as I did with Quentyn's fate. GRRM is a master of intentional and unintentional humor.
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Jul 17, 2011 23:04
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Xae posted:If Ashara is Lenore then Ned was probably knee deep in the conspiracy. If I remember correctly after the ToJ he want to Starfall, where the Dayne's live shortly before Ashara jumped into the Sea. Did he meet the young Aegon there and realize there was still two claimants to the throne and help arrange them to be hidden? Check out my post right above yours for my idea on that. Brannock posted:Who is Rowan? For a spearwife, she really loving hates Theon and seems to be very familiar with the Stark household. Man, I was really curious about that while reading that chapter. I figured we'd find out she was some northerner that went with Mance, but we never found anything out about her. Now she's dead as a Ned and we'll never know. I mean, why would a wildling have a problem with Theon using the Stark words? In other book news, ADWD is selling like hotcakes (or hot pies, heh.): http://books.usatoday.com/bookbuzz/post/2011/07/record-sales-for-george-rr-martins-a-dance-with-dragons/176909/1 quote:George R.R. Martin's A Dance With Dragons, book five in his epic "A Song of Ice and Fire' series, had the highest single and first-day sales of any new fiction title published this year: 298,000 copies in print, digital, and audio formats, publisher Random House announced today. 300,000 copies all together in one day. That sounds like a pretty large amount for medieval fantasy fiction.
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Jul 17, 2011 23:04
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Ray_ posted:In other book news, ADWD is selling like hotcakes (or hot pies, heh.): What's more crazy to me from that article is that in the first 6 months of this year so far, he has sold 4 million copies of the first 4 books in the series, which is the same amount as they sold in the past 15 years. Plus I'm sure he got some big bucks from the TV show. George has to be sitting pretty rich right now, compared to what he's been used to.
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Jul 17, 2011 23:10
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Yeah the sales figures are sick. So are the reviews. The New York Times review is basically the most over the top rave I've ever seen (emphasis added):quote:In a Fantasyland of Liars, Trust No One, and Keep Your Dragon Close I mean jesus. I loved the book and even I think its a bit extreme. Still, all bullshit aside, purely from a cultural phenomena standpoint, with the HBO show with at least one (and likely more, with how huge this book is) season to come, this has the potential to be like a Da Vinci code/Twilight/Girl with the Dragon Tattoo level hit. I'd mention Harry Potter but honestly nothing is ever gonna touch HP sales figures. Still, George is in good company, saleswise at least. literallyincredible fucked around with this message at 23:40 on Jul 17, 2011 |
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Jul 17, 2011 23:29
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Brannock posted:Who is Rowan? For a spearwife, she really loving hates Theon and seems to be very familiar with the Stark household. Ashara Dayne!
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Jul 18, 2011 00:01
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literallyincredible posted:Yeah the sales figures are sick. So are the reviews. The New York Times review is basically the most over the top rave I've ever seen (emphasis added): Season 2 of the TV show could flop since there's not so much action in the second book, and they lost some seriously compelling character actors (Mark Addy & Sean Bean) or it could go totally gangbusters if it's done well (especially if they do a good job on the grand finale, the Battle of the Blackwater) Based on the way the season 1 viewership went, I am very hopeful. If the show makes it at least up until the Red Wedding, then I think we will have a very long-running classic on our hands. I posted this in one of the other threads, but here was the weekly viewer trend. There were ups & downs, but some substantial growth by the end.  Combine that with a huge surge in book sales, and yeah, I can see it becoming a phenomenon. lapse fucked around with this message at 00:14 on Jul 18, 2011 |
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Jul 18, 2011 00:09
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Gangringo posted:When I got to the part where Tyrion meets Penny and rides the pig all I could think of was Peter Dinklage reading it and giving a long, slow, mournful sigh. I felt the same way. In cast interviews and trailers I got the impression that he was trying to bring gravitas to a role he fundamentally didn't like - presumably because 90% of the interactions are people being shits because Tyrion is a dwarf. This just doubles down on that. I expect and hope they will cut Penny when the time comes. Easy enough to write around it.
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Jul 18, 2011 00:36
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SelfOM posted:Having to wait another 3+ years for the next book, to resolve any of dozens of cliffhangers is.. No it will be out much sooner than that, he has already written some of the chapters and .. he... hahahahahahaha haha ah ha aha oh god I couldn't even write it.
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Jul 18, 2011 00:47
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Am I the only one optimistic that now that he is past his little knot that the books are going to come out much faster? He no longer has to worry about mereen and hbo is gonna be on his rear end and he put out SOS and ACOK pretty fast.
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Jul 18, 2011 00:53
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Scoobi posted:Am I the only one optimistic that now that he is past his little knot that the books are going to come out much faster? He no longer has to worry about mereen and hbo is gonna be on his rear end and he put out SOS and ACOK pretty fast. Yes.
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Jul 18, 2011 00:55
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Gangringo posted:When I got to the part where Tyrion meets Penny and rides the pig all I could think of was Peter Dinklage reading it and giving a long, slow, mournful sigh. I had a similar thought but with the scene where Cersei walks through KL stark naked. I would be impressed if Alfie Allen is able to pull off the Reek scenes. So far all I've seen from him is  knight.
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Jul 18, 2011 01:04
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GRRM was on NPR today and its extremely unnerving to hear how close he sounds to Carl Kassel. They also mentioned as an aside how "vicious" the fan reaction was to his book taking so long.
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Jul 18, 2011 01:09
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Party Plane Jones posted:GRRM was on NPR today and its extremely unnerving to hear how close he sounds to Carl Kassel. They also mentioned as an aside how "vicious" the fan reaction was to his book taking so long. Was that the Tom Ashton interview? Or something?
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Jul 18, 2011 01:13
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So was I the only one who interpreted the Bolton letter as "I'm going to come up to the wall and kill everyone if I have to to kill you because ragh"? I mean, I dig that the Night's Watch is not supposed to take part in this sort of squabble, but that message pretty much justified Jon's going off, at least to me. And if he didn't want to go alone, well, he really oughtn't. Obviously, there are other concerns, but I feel that if by going and fighting the psychotic murderer somewhere else you can spare your charge, doing just that is pretty much justified.
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Jul 18, 2011 01:24
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I thought the same thing, he is declaring war on the Night's Watch by threatening the Lord Commander of the institution.
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Jul 18, 2011 01:28
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Anyone else think that Jaime is going to be forced to fight the "Hound" for "Sansa" with his one hand in order to prove he's keeping his oath? It has the makings of an incredibly badass chapter.
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Jul 18, 2011 01:31
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I always felt like Jon would have had more success if he was more open with his thoughts. "Hey guys, I'm going to deal with this because he's declared war on us and is an open threat to us. If we just let him sit there he's going to attack us and we have absolutely no way of defending ourselves." "Hey guys, we are severely undermanned and literally no one is coming to help us. Those wildings are willing to help us not die horribly - so I'm going to put my best men in charge of them." "Hey guys, I'm doing my best to get Stannis out of our hair so we can remain autonomous - it'd really help if you were on my side so we have an unified front!" But instead he's completely closed off from his men and I'm sure that Bowen Marsh and Othell Yarwyck definitely felt alienated from this new, young Lord Commander. It seems like the Old Bear was much closer to his captains (witness all the meetings he held in CoK/SoS on the First of the First Men) and I imagined that helped considerably. Though the Old Bear is perhaps a bad example given his eventual fate.
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Jul 18, 2011 01:33
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Arrrthritis posted:I had a similar thought but with the scene where Cersei walks through KL stark naked.
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Jul 18, 2011 01:33
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NihilCredo posted:Would be pretty easy to change it slightly so that she's wearing a penitent's tunic or something. The actress did at least some nudity as Queen Gorgo though, so I don't see her making a huge fuss. The shaven head would probably be a bigger deal, and it's also IMO more essential to the scene. If nothing else alternate between close ups on her face and long shots with a body double.
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Jul 18, 2011 01:36
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