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DELETED
Nov 14, 2004
Disgruntled

Don Lapre posted:

Invoice on the aveo in 2004 was 9k.

You shouldn't be spending more than 4k maybe on one, but they are poo poo poo poo cars. Terribly uncomfortable as well.

I had one as a rental once, and it felt like the door handles were going to snap off every time I opened the door. Imagine a Little Tikes Cozy Coupe with an engine and cheaper plastic.

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stubblyhead
Sep 13, 2007

That is treason, Johnny!

Fun Shoe
What does DFC refer to on a vehicle quote, is the the destination charge?

gvibes
Jan 18, 2010

Leading us to the promised land (i.e., one tournament win in five years)

stubblyhead posted:

What does DFC refer to on a vehicle quote, is the the destination charge?
Yeah, destingation feright chartge.

I am not going to bother correcting my spelling, that is freaking amazing right there.

amethystbliss
Jan 17, 2006

CornHolio posted:

wait, nine grand for an '04 Aveo? That's about what they were new, :psyduck:

Also, Aveos are terrible, one of the most terrible vehicles you can buy. It's a rebadged Daewoo.

drat it. Why is car shopping so difficult?

stubblyhead
Sep 13, 2007

That is treason, Johnny!

Fun Shoe

gvibes posted:

Yeah, destingation feright chartge.

I am not going to bother correcting my spelling, that is freaking amazing right there.

Wow, nice job on that. So this quote I have on a cruze has the following on the bottom:
code:
MSRP W/DFC:        $27,350.00 
Invoice W/DFC:     $25,617.79
GMS W/DFC:         $25,450.45 
Supplier W/DFC:    $25,450.45
The MSRP and invoice prices are not correct, and I'm sorting those out, but what do the GMS and supplier figures refer to?

e: Heard back from the dealer, he acknowledges that the msrp is too high by 1000, but says that the invoice is correct due to advertising charges totaling over $600. Seems pretty loving steep to me.

stubblyhead fucked around with this message at 21:46 on Jul 16, 2011

JohnnyHildo
Jul 23, 2002

stubblyhead posted:

Wow, nice job on that. So this quote I have on a cruze has the following on the bottom:
code:
MSRP W/DFC:        $27,350.00 
Invoice W/DFC:     $25,617.79
GMS W/DFC:         $25,450.45 
Supplier W/DFC:    $25,450.45
The MSRP and invoice prices are not correct, and I'm sorting those out, but what do the GMS and supplier figures refer to?

e: Heard back from the dealer, he acknowledges that the msrp is too high by 1000, but says that the invoice is correct due to advertising charges totaling over $600. Seems pretty loving steep to me.

GMS is a GM employee price and supplier is a price for employees of GM suppliers.

kimbo305
Jun 9, 2007

actually, yeah, I am a little mad
Wait a minute... should even a top spec Cruze be that much?

Throatwarbler
Nov 17, 2008

by vyelkin

kimbo305 posted:

Wait a minute... should even a top spec Cruze be that much?

I think he's Canadian, on gm.ca if you go for the top trim with almost every option (sunroof, nav, illuminated door sill) it's about that much, but yeah, that's pretty much the carbon brakes edition because the base model Cruze is $14k

stubblyhead
Sep 13, 2007

That is treason, Johnny!

Fun Shoe

kimbo305 posted:

Wait a minute... should even a top spec Cruze be that much?

No, I'm US. The top trim line for the Cruze has a base invoice of $22070, and the options I have on there total to $2192, plus $750 for DFC. I balked at the advertising charge, so he's offered me $25012 minus $1100 in rebates. I think I can talk him down a little more though, and I haven't really even started with other dealerships in the area.

Don Lapre
Mar 28, 2001

If you're having problems you're either holding the phone wrong or you have tiny girl hands.
For that kind of money a ford focus is way better equipped. Its also a better car. Faster, better handling.

stubblyhead
Sep 13, 2007

That is treason, Johnny!

Fun Shoe

Don Lapre posted:

For that kind of money a ford focus is way better equipped. Its also a better car. Faster, better handling.

This car's for my wife really. She had some car trouble when she was out of town a few weeks ago, and the rental that AAA hooked her up with was a Cruze. She really liked it a lot. She's a lifelong Chevy lover, and the Focus is, in her words, "a car for tweaker dirtbags."

NOTinuyasha
Oct 17, 2006

 
The Great Twist

Don Lapre posted:

For that kind of money a ford focus is way better equipped. Its also a better car. Faster, better handling.

Both are disappointing because a manual is only available with the base trims. The Cruze automatic is ok, the Focus automatic is a pile of poo poo.

I actually think VW's lineup is one of the best right now, $24,000 would buy a loaded Jetta 2.5L - which is a real full sized sedan.

Throatwarbler
Nov 17, 2008

by vyelkin

NOTinuyasha posted:

Both are disappointing because a manual is only available with the base trims. The Cruze automatic is ok, the Focus automatic is a pile of poo poo.

I actually think VW's lineup is one of the best right now, $24,000 would buy a loaded Jetta 2.5L - which is a real full sized sedan.

It's slightly smaller than the Cruze, so I guess that makes the Cruze a full size sedan? It also doesn't have as good an interior, no automatic air conditioning, no park assist, oxcart suspension, the manual trans is only a 5 speed and the fuel economy is quite a bit worse.

NOTinuyasha
Oct 17, 2006

 
The Great Twist

Throatwarbler posted:

It's slightly smaller than the Cruze, so I guess that makes the Cruze a full size sedan? It also doesn't have as good an interior, no automatic air conditioning, no park assist, oxcart suspension, the manual trans is only a 5 speed and the fuel economy is quite a bit worse.

If you sit in the back of the Jetta you'd know what I mean, it has the same interior room as an Accord while the Cruze is preety much just a compact car. I didn't like the handling or interior either, but it had some merits.

sanchez
Feb 26, 2003

stubblyhead posted:

No, I'm US. The top trim line for the Cruze has a base invoice of $22070, and the options I have on there total to $2192, plus $750 for DFC. I balked at the advertising charge, so he's offered me $25012 minus $1100 in rebates. I think I can talk him down a little more though, and I haven't really even started with other dealerships in the area.

You can buy a well optioned 4cyl Accord or a less optioned v6 Accord or a Sonata with or without turbo for a similar price, perhaps a little more for the Hondas.

Unless you really want an extra 5mpg or whatever I don't see the appeal in a Cruze at all.

The new Jettas are cheap trash. I drove a bunch of new midsize sedans recently, the accord was a clear winner, the only thing the sonata had over it was the transmission.

sanchez fucked around with this message at 14:17 on Jul 17, 2011

Nocheez
Sep 5, 2000

Can you spare a little cheddar?
Nap Ghost

NOTinuyasha posted:

the Focus automatic is a pile of poo poo.


Have you driven one? We have one at work for a pool car, and it's a fantastic little car. The gas mileage is amazing (I got over 40MPG on a long trip) and it handles beautifully. The only downsides I've seen are that the car tries to take it easy on gas, so sometimes it takes a moment to realize that yes, you really do need to go faster. It also had the air conditioner compressor die in the first 10K miles. It was replaced under warranty.

Don Lapre
Mar 28, 2001

If you're having problems you're either holding the phone wrong or you have tiny girl hands.

NOTinuyasha posted:

Both are disappointing because a manual is only available with the base trims. The Cruze automatic is ok, the Focus automatic is a pile of poo poo.

I actually think VW's lineup is one of the best right now, $24,000 would buy a loaded Jetta 2.5L - which is a real full sized sedan.

Ive heard good things about the new focus transmission. its a dual clutch 6spd. The one in my friends fiesta shifts well.

Throatwarbler
Nov 17, 2008

by vyelkin

sanchez posted:

You can buy a well optioned 4cyl Accord or a less optioned v6 Accord or a Sonata with or without turbo for a similar price, perhaps a little more for the Hondas.

Unless you really want an extra 5mpg or whatever I don't see the appeal in a Cruze at all.

The new Jettas are cheap trash. I drove a bunch of new midsize sedans recently, the accord was a clear winner, the only thing the sonata had over it was the transmission.

Both the Accord and the Sonata are significantly more expensive when equipped at a similar level as the Cruze, get significantly worse fuel economy, the Accord is a dated design with worse crash safety ratings and a 5 speed transmission. Unless you regularly need to carry fat NBA players in the back I don't see the appeal of either at all.

Baja Mofufu
Feb 7, 2004

stubblyhead posted:

She's a lifelong Chevy lover, and the Focus is, in her words, "a car for tweaker dirtbags."

Did you test drive both? We're buying a new car at the end of the month and initially wanted the Cruze Eco, but after driving the Cruze (& Cruze Eco), Focus, Elantra, Jetta, Corolla, and Civic, the Focus won hands down. We did have to special order one because the combination of options we wanted didn't exist in the country (mainly because of the manual transmission). It's too bad that you can only get a manual Focus with SE trim (unless you're in Canada), but we weren't looking to drop a ton of money anyway.

With an X-plan discount and Private Cash (-$750) coupon from Ford, it's coming in at $21K out the door. We got to the point of pricing out a Cruze with the dealer, and I don't see how you're spending that much. If I were spending $25K I would expect something better that a Cruze. The handling was worse, there was less power, the seats were more uncomfortable (we didn't try the LTZ though), and the interior plastics felt cheaper. It was nice to have a 6-speed on the Cruze, but not enough to sway us, even though my husband is eligible for an employee discount. Of course, the GM employee discount for the Cruze is so bad that you could probably bargain a better deal...

sanchez
Feb 26, 2003

Throatwarbler posted:

Both the Accord and the Sonata are significantly more expensive when equipped at a similar level as the Cruze,

I would not have posted them if that was the case. The top spec (EX-L and Limited) Accord and Sonata are both right around 25k. If you can do without leather the EX and normal Sonata are less. I had a dealer down to 23k on a Sonata turbo.

Cruze gets 28/36, Honda gets 23/34, n/a Sonata gets 22/35. The city mileage is different for sure, but it's not like moving to a full size SUV or anything.

25k for a Cruze just jumped out at me, that's Golf GTI money. There must be better options or a better dealer somewhere. A Limited 2012 Elantra is just over 20k. The quality might not be quite up there on them (Sonata isn't regardless of what magazines say) but they must be worth a look too.

sanchez fucked around with this message at 01:00 on Jul 18, 2011

NOTinuyasha
Oct 17, 2006

 
The Great Twist

Nocheez posted:

Have you driven one? We have one at work for a pool car, and it's a fantastic little car. The gas mileage is amazing (I got over 40MPG on a long trip) and it handles beautifully. The only downsides I've seen are that the car tries to take it easy on gas, so sometimes it takes a moment to realize that yes, you really do need to go faster.

I test drove a Fiesta automatic a few months ago and it didn't impress me. My friend rented an auto Fiesta for the past month and constantly bitches that it's way too slow to respond, especially on the highway. And yesterday I saw the NYT headline review of the Focus - "Such a Slick Package, But Gearbox is a Drag" and I just assumed it suffered from the same issues.

Throatwarbler
Nov 17, 2008

by vyelkin

sanchez posted:

I would not have posted them if that was the case. The top spec (EX-L and Limited) Accord and Sonata are both right around 25k. If you can do without leather the EX and normal Sonata are less. I had a dealer down to 23k on a Sonata turbo.

Cruze gets 28/36, Honda gets 23/34, n/a Sonata gets 22/35. The city mileage is different for sure, but it's not like moving to a full size SUV or anything.

25k for a Cruze just jumped out at me, that's Golf GTI money. There must be better options or a better dealer somewhere. A Limited 2012 Elantra is just over 20k. The quality might not be quite up there on them (Sonata isn't regardless of what magazines say) but they must be worth a look too.



From Honda's website:



To get to the same specs, the Accord adds backup sensors and the Cruze adds moonroof. He didn't say but I 'm assuming to get the Cruze up to $27k he added nav. The Accord EX-L with nav is over $30k. If you want to compare the base model Accord , the base Cruze starts at $16k MSRP.

EDIT: Here's with nav. I think in this one the Cruze also includes the upgraded stereo.



The Cruze price changed slightly for 2012 by a few hundred bucks IIRC, Honda's comparison thing just didn't have all the specs for the '12 Cruze yet.

Throatwarbler fucked around with this message at 01:58 on Jul 18, 2011

sanchez
Feb 26, 2003
Those Honda prices are high, but the Cruze price is much lower than what he was looking at, 22k is far more reasonable. Navigation isn't worth it on either car. If he has 25-26k, I still think there are better options. That's a lot of money for 140hp, moonroof or no moonroof.

sanchez fucked around with this message at 02:30 on Jul 18, 2011

stubblyhead
Sep 13, 2007

That is treason, Johnny!

Fun Shoe
The base invoice for the 2012 Cruze LTZ is $22070. RS package adds $524, nav system is $876 (has some upgraded sound system features as well), and the sunroof is $792. Like I said, this is going to be my wife's car, I seriously doubt I'll drive it much at all. She had one for a weekend and loved it, and while I appreciate everyone's advice, this is the car we're going to get.

Nocheez
Sep 5, 2000

Can you spare a little cheddar?
Nap Ghost

NOTinuyasha posted:

I test drove a Fiesta automatic a few months ago and it didn't impress me. My friend rented an auto Fiesta for the past month and constantly bitches that it's way too slow to respond, especially on the highway. And yesterday I saw the NYT headline review of the Focus - "Such a Slick Package, But Gearbox is a Drag" and I just assumed it suffered from the same issues.
This is why you really ought to have first-hand experience before you parrot something you read. I'm not going to pretend that the Focus's auto is a perfect transmission or anything, but it really is nice to drive around and shifts firmly. The side effect of 40MPG is nice, too.

LorneReams
Jun 27, 2003
I'm bizarre

sanchez posted:

The new Jettas are cheap trash. I drove a bunch of new midsize sedans recently, the accord was a clear winner, the only thing the sonata had over it was the transmission.

I have to agree with this. I have a 2001, and I went to test drive a new one and it felt like a loving 90s escort. Everything was cheap about it. I was really disappointed.

Then I ironically rode in a new Taurus....WTF! It's like bizarro world.

kimbo305
Jun 9, 2007

actually, yeah, I am a little mad

stubblyhead posted:

The base invoice for the 2012 Cruze LTZ is $22070. RS package adds $524, nav system is $876 (has some upgraded sound system features as well), and the sunroof is $792. Like I said, this is going to be my wife's car, I seriously doubt I'll drive it much at all. She had one for a weekend and loved it, and while I appreciate everyone's advice, this is the car we're going to get.

Alrighty, but post a trip report of how much discounting you get off the price.

RabbitMage
Nov 20, 2008
So how about the financials of buying/owning a cheap-rear end car?

I'll probably be in the market around October, but being a student with limited income, I'm not willing to take on loan payments nor will I have much to spend ($2000 max). I made this work pretty well last year. Bought a 1987 Mazda B2200 from a tow/repo yard, paid $900 total for purchase, minor repairs, and registration. Drove it until November and resold it for $1400.

In my financial situation, is that the best (or at least a not-terrible) way to go about things? FYI I didn't go to some random yard. My grandpa works at said yard, so he's able to help sort the less awful crap from the total crap.

CornHolio
May 20, 2001

Toilet Rascal

RabbitMage posted:

So how about the financials of buying/owning a cheap-rear end car?

I'll probably be in the market around October, but being a student with limited income, I'm not willing to take on loan payments nor will I have much to spend ($2000 max). I made this work pretty well last year. Bought a 1987 Mazda B2200 from a tow/repo yard, paid $900 total for purchase, minor repairs, and registration. Drove it until November and resold it for $1400.

In my financial situation, is that the best (or at least a not-terrible) way to go about things? FYI I didn't go to some random yard. My grandpa works at said yard, so he's able to help sort the less awful crap from the total crap.

I think the biggest issue is whether or not you can fix minor things yourself. A cheap car is likely going to need constant attention, and if you can fix these things yourself for cheap then it would be worth it, but if you'd be paying a mechanic each time it probably wouldn't.

That being said, cheap-rear end old cars are awesome because there's usually a bunch at the local junkyard so when something breaks you just cannibalize another car and go on your way. (Or, of course, appeal to some internet forums like I usually do, if the junkyard doesn't have what you're looking for).

IOwnCalculus
Apr 2, 2003





Having your grandpa sort through a yard he runs seems like as good an option as any. Seconding CornHolio that this holds up as long as you can either do the work yourself, or perhaps have friends that don't mind helping you for the price of a case of beer or something like that.

stubblyhead
Sep 13, 2007

That is treason, Johnny!

Fun Shoe

kimbo305 posted:

Alrighty, but post a trip report of how much discounting you get off the price.

We've worked out a price of $23875, which is $1112 below invoice. Good deal?

Don Lapre
Mar 28, 2001

If you're having problems you're either holding the phone wrong or you have tiny girl hands.

stubblyhead posted:

We've worked out a price of $23875, which is $1112 below invoice. Good deal?

Are you doing a trade? Im assuming you are financing elsewhere or are you getting 2.9%?

stubblyhead
Sep 13, 2007

That is treason, Johnny!

Fun Shoe

Don Lapre posted:

Are you doing a trade? Im assuming you are financing elsewhere or are you getting 2.9%?

We were planning to trade in the old shitbox, but my wife was talking to the neighbor today, and her granddaughter may be interested in buying it. It's fine for short trips around town, which is what she's looking for. I'm pre-approved through my bank at 3.0, but if they can do better I'll certainly entertain it.

CornHolio
May 20, 2001

Toilet Rascal
Still just seems an awful lot of money for a Cruze. I mean I'm sure it's a nice car and all and if it's what she wants then fine, but that's well-equipped Altima and Camry territory. And if you look ~2 years old, that's Lexus terrirory. Just to put it into perspective.

Actually this brings up an interesting thing. Last week's Top Gear had them driving a Nissan Pixo, a car unavailable in the states but it's the cheapest car currently on sale in Britain. They then shows an entire field of vehicles for sale for the same price as the new Pixo, and there were some nice cars there - stuff 4x and 5x the price and only a few years old. I know the used market over there is a lot different than the used market here since they have to actually pay to dispose of old vehicles, but it still brings up the point that for the same price you can get so much more car for the money. (The show went on to the extreme and the presenters each bought a super-high-end German car, in one case costing the equivalent of ~$150,000 new, though it looks like it's primarily going to show that parts costs for cars such as those remain expensive, so going to such an extreme isn't a very good idea).

LorneReams
Jun 27, 2003
I'm bizarre

stubblyhead posted:

We were planning to trade in the old shitbox, but my wife was talking to the neighbor today, and her granddaughter may be interested in buying it. It's fine for short trips around town, which is what she's looking for. I'm pre-approved through my bank at 3.0, but if they can do better I'll certainly entertain it.

Let them run your credit first...they have a network of banks who will all lowball themselves to give you credit. You almost always get a better deal for finacing at the dealer because of dealer networks.

Sym
Feb 22, 2006
Where am I?
Anyone able to educate me on the GMC Acadia.

I found a 2007 SLT2 for $29,000 with 66,000KM that my wife really likes. There aren't too many comparable units in my region (Vancouver, BC) and the few others that I have found are lower trim levels and are only listed at about $2,000 less.

It's at a GM dealership so it's certified pre-owned, we've been looking for a replacement for her 95 Explorer since the start of the year and this is the first one she's liked enough to drive during the test drive.

Throatwarbler
Nov 17, 2008

by vyelkin

Sym posted:

Anyone able to educate me on the GMC Acadia.

I found a 2007 SLT2 for $29,000 with 66,000KM that my wife really likes. There aren't too many comparable units in my region (Vancouver, BC) and the few others that I have found are lower trim levels and are only listed at about $2,000 less.

It's at a GM dealership so it's certified pre-owned, we've been looking for a replacement for her 95 Explorer since the start of the year and this is the first one she's liked enough to drive during the test drive.

Sounds kind of expensive. Is it AWD or FWD? AWD should be closer to $23-25k, FWD a couple K less than that.

Here's pricing info on a 2008 Enclave.

http://www.vmrcanada.com/value_menus/canprices/08buenve.html

They don't have enough info on the Acadia so that's the closest equvilant. Also you are probably aware but the Chevy Traverse, Buick Enclave, and Saturn Outlook are all essentially the same cars and worthy of consideration, especially the Saturn since with the brand's shuttering, resale values have take a hit (granted it was a cheaper truck to begin with and not as well equipped).

Throatwarbler fucked around with this message at 20:16 on Jul 21, 2011

Don Lapre
Mar 28, 2001

If you're having problems you're either holding the phone wrong or you have tiny girl hands.
Saturn is the best looking one also.

Throatwarbler
Nov 17, 2008

by vyelkin
Also, Vancouver isn't that far from the US, so you can search in places like Seattle and whatnot too, for greater selection. All those trucks are freely importable to Canada(you do have to pay GST at the border) so that should widen your selection at least.

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Sym
Feb 22, 2006
Where am I?

Throatwarbler posted:

Sounds kind of expensive. Is it AWD or FWD? AWD should be closer to $23-25k, FWD a couple K less than that.

Here's pricing info on a 2008 Enclave.

http://www.vmrcanada.com/value_menus/canprices/08buenve.html

They don't have enough info on the Acadia so that's the closest equvilant. Also you are probably aware but the Chevy Traverse, Buick Enclave, and Saturn Outlook are all essentially the same cars and worthy of consideration, especially the Saturn since with the brand's shuttering, resale values have take a hit (granted it was a cheaper truck to begin with and not as well equipped).

It's AWD, I didn't think to try the Enclave on that site, there wasn't any data on the Traverse or Acadia on there.

I'm not about to go for the list price but with the Enclave on there at least I can get and idea of the Wholesale price and how much room I have to work with the dealer.

I'll take a look down south as well, might put a delay on the purchase as my passport is expired :(

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