BeigeJacket posted:Sure I got all that, but I can't see why him riding into Stannis lines (other than as a Theon delivery device) is in any way important enough to end the whole (first person) Winterfell/Stannis section of the book. Cersi told The Iron Bank to gently caress off. The King's Landing faction os now broke. The Iron Bank is going to support Stannis as long as Stannis promises to pay up when he wins. Stannis just went from being broke, to having access to a shitload of cash. Bet Sallador Saan feels like a dickhead now. It's a major signifier in that the IB thinks Stannis can win, and now that the IB has yanked financial support from Tommen and given it to Stannis, Stannis has some major advantages.
|
|
# ? Jul 18, 2011 15:50 |
|
|
# ? Mar 28, 2024 16:36 |
|
serewit posted:The true ending is where the Braavosi come back to collect on their debts after engaging in risky and speculative lending practices in the Free Cities, find out the Westerosi overinflated their assets, and cause castle prices to depreciate so much that the Dothraki roll in, buy all the castles, and spend the rest of their days having horse drag-races up and down the south. Ha, what will happen is Jon is going to be rezzed and glamoured to look like Stannis, win the war but tell the bank that he has no money to give them. Someone in the bank will say a prayer in a certain temple and we know who the debt collector will be.
|
# ? Jul 18, 2011 15:56 |
|
Isn't it implied that the Iron Bank has resources to make princes and kings disappear? I still can't believe Cersei told that dude to gently caress off back to the Free Cities.
|
# ? Jul 18, 2011 16:00 |
|
Smiling Jack posted:Cersi told The Iron Bank to gently caress off. The King's Landing faction os now broke. The Iron Bank is going to support Stannis as long as Stannis promises to pay up when he wins. Ah, that makes sense thanks. Wouldn't say the Kingslanding-ers are broke broke tho, in the epilogue Kevans mentions how the Lannisters will have to cover their debts from now on, and they are rich as gently caress. Also, gently caress the haters I like Daario, dudes got his fancy blue hair, a company of bros to ride around with and a smoking hot queen who can't get enough of him. He's the one of the few people in this whole mess who just flat out loves what he does and gets a kick out of life.
|
# ? Jul 18, 2011 16:07 |
|
Wasn't the party with the Iron Bank guy also supposed to be carrying word that one of Stannis' people was planning to betray him?
|
# ? Jul 18, 2011 16:14 |
|
EC posted:Isn't it implied that the Iron Bank has resources to make princes and kings disappear? I still can't believe Cersei told that dude to gently caress off back to the Free Cities. I think the quote was more "regular banks force Princes to step down, the Iron Bank makes new Princes out of thin air to take the throne".
|
# ? Jul 18, 2011 16:14 |
|
computer parts posted:I think the quote was more "regular banks force Princes to step down, the Iron Bank makes new Princes out of thin air to take the throne". The gist of it that I remember is that when normal banks have princes default the banker offs himself, with the Iron bank they just get a new prince.
|
# ? Jul 18, 2011 16:34 |
|
OK so a few questions that stemmed from the epilogue. The whole Varys/Illyrio conspiracy is now well-documented and it's clear that they are backing a Targaryen restoration. Varys bleats a lot about doing it for "the realm" but do we have any idea of what his and Illyrio's true motives are or are we stuck with speculation at this point? And on a related note, what is Littlefinger's game besides setting himself up in a better position and trying to marry Sansa?
|
# ? Jul 18, 2011 16:42 |
|
silly posted:OK so a few questions that stemmed from the epilogue. The whole Varys/Illyrio conspiracy is now well-documented and it's clear that they are backing a Targaryen restoration. Varys bleats a lot about doing it for "the realm" but do we have any idea of what his and Illyrio's true motives are or are we stuck with speculation at this point? Varys and Illyrio obviously think that the Targs will do a better job than the current lot and they will be very well rewarded for what they have done. Seems like pretty good motivation to me. When Littlefinger is finished he will have direct and indirect control of the North, the Vale and Harrenhal and all its lands, that is a big chunk of Westoros.
|
# ? Jul 18, 2011 16:56 |
|
silly posted:OK so a few questions that stemmed from the epilogue. The whole Varys/Illyrio conspiracy is now well-documented and it's clear that they are backing a Targaryen restoration. Varys bleats a lot about doing it for "the realm" but do we have any idea of what his and Illyrio's true motives are or are we stuck with speculation at this point? I think Ilyrio's plans go no farther than restoring the Targs, but I think that Varys's motives go much deeper, and he knows a lot more than he lets on even to Ilyrio. Varys is going to come out being an unequivocally good guy at the end, I'm calling it. I think he's well aware of the threat of the Others, he knows that they're awakening now and why, and he's setting up events to allow a victory against them.
|
# ? Jul 18, 2011 17:06 |
|
literallyincredible posted:Yeah the sales figures are sick. So are the reviews. The New York Times review is basically the most over the top rave I've ever seen (emphasis added): I am a huge Martin fanboy and I pretty much agree with even the most ridiculous praise, but I think it's silly not to recognize that if there weren't a TV show, the book wouldn't be getting all these rave reviews. It's the increased cultural awareness that's driving this, not the quality of the books.
|
# ? Jul 18, 2011 17:33 |
|
pigdog posted:So, any bets on the asinine and frustrating way Barristan the Bold is going to die in the next book? He's being way too cool for GRRM universe to live, so I'd assume he's going to die of common dysentery... or get snacked on by dragons while Dany watches but is unable to intervene. He's going to die at the end of Dream of Spring of old age in his retirement home which is exactly the opposite way he wanted to die.
|
# ? Jul 18, 2011 17:38 |
|
Sexpansion posted:I am a huge Martin fanboy and I pretty much agree with even the most ridiculous praise, but I think it's silly not to recognize that if there weren't a TV show, the book wouldn't be getting all these rave reviews. It's the increased cultural awareness that's driving this, not the quality of the books. The story and depth of the world in the books are pretty much unique in the fantasy genre. It also has a low enough actual fantasy content (no Elves and wizard casting fireballs) that it appeals to a lot of people not normally interested in the fantasy genre. The writing itself indeed leaves much to be desired.
|
# ? Jul 18, 2011 17:39 |
|
Ecco the Dolphin posted:I think Ilyrio's plans go no farther than restoring the Targs, but I think that Varys's motives go much deeper, and he knows a lot more than he lets on even to Ilyrio. Varys is going to come out being an unequivocally good guy at the end, I'm calling it. I think he's well aware of the threat of the Others, he knows that they're awakening now and why, and he's setting up events to allow a victory against them. I think you are completely wrong. These two are working some kind of angle. Illyrio has spent a fortune to get things where they are. Remember, he gave Dany 3 dragon's eggs, which are worth a handsome price alone. Then, he pays off the Golden Company to meet up with Dany. He's invested quite a bit into the raising and education of Aegon I would imagine. Varys, on the other hand, has been in Westeros since mad king Aerys. If his entire goal was to protect the realm from the Others, I doubt he'd let it go to poo poo right as they reach the realm. These fuckers are up to something big. Pentos, maybe? Seems small game still. Maybe they want dragons themselves, and will betray Dany.
|
# ? Jul 18, 2011 17:47 |
|
I agree, he isn't a great writer, but he is pretty good at creating an interesting world, and the TV shows have the added bonus of time and budget constraints, so I'm hopeful that after seeing their take on the first book they'll be able to do a great job culling out all the unnecessary poo poo (I don't think we'll see half of the POV characters spend half of season 5 with their thumbs up their asses on boats traveling to Mereen).
|
# ? Jul 18, 2011 17:49 |
|
OperaMouse posted:
See I don't even agree with this criticism, but no matter how good the books are, they wouldn't be turning into a cultural phenomenon without the TV show.
|
# ? Jul 18, 2011 17:49 |
|
OperaMouse posted:The story and depth of the world in the books are pretty much unique in the fantasy genre. It also has a low enough actual fantasy content (no Elves and wizard casting fireballs) that it appeals to a lot of people not normally interested in the fantasy genre. Martin isn't Faulkner, but he's still light years ahead of 99% of contemporary sci-fi and fantasy writers when it comes to writing.
|
# ? Jul 18, 2011 17:55 |
|
EC posted:Isn't it implied that the Iron Bank has resources to make princes and kings disappear? I still can't believe Cersei told that dude to gently caress off back to the Free Cities. Cersei defaulting on the Iron Bank loans, arming the priesthood, and alienating the Tyrells are three facially obvious "she's going to regret this" mistakes, and she makes them at full speed
|
# ? Jul 18, 2011 18:02 |
|
A) A better prose writer than Tolkien isn't even praise to be damned with. B) Can anyone explained what's going on with the guards in Quentyn's final chapter? The first couple stand aside, but the others fight. What's up with that?
|
# ? Jul 18, 2011 18:03 |
|
This is a sort lemoncakes esque question but do people actually eat lampreys? Lamprey pie seems to be a perennial favorite on either side of the Narrow Sea.
|
# ? Jul 18, 2011 18:03 |
|
Aurubin posted:This is a sort lemoncakes esque question but do people actually eat lampreys? Lamprey pie seems to be a perennial favorite on either side of the Narrow Sea. Nowadays, in coastal southern France and Spain, yeah, it's a common dish. Historically, they were also eaten by the upper classes throughout Europe during the middle ages.
|
# ? Jul 18, 2011 18:06 |
|
Xander77 posted:A) A better prose writer than Tolkien isn't even praise to be damned with. No poo poo. I don't know the answer to "man this guy's writing could use some polish" is "well, he's better than most fantasy writers!" Hey great, he's better than the guys who write dime store check out stuff with dragons and busty maidens on the front. He's also probably better than (most? all?) fan fic writers. Xander77 posted:
Barristan and the leader (Shazkakakha? or whatever?) sent their own guys to secure the dragons as a part of the coup, and they knew that Quentyn and his group weren't a part of the plan
|
# ? Jul 18, 2011 18:10 |
|
Sexpansion posted:I am a huge Martin fanboy and I pretty much agree with even the most ridiculous praise, but I think it's silly not to recognize that if there weren't a TV show, the book wouldn't be getting all these rave reviews. It's the increased cultural awareness that's driving this, not the quality of the books. His stuff wouldn't be reviewed by a lot of mainstream media if it wasn't for the show, that's for sure. Roark posted:Martin isn't Faulkner, but he's still light years ahead of 99% of contemporary sci-fi and fantasy writers when it comes to writing. Put it at 80 %. Abercrombie, Lynch (if he writes something), Bakker (love him or hate him), Sanderson, Wolfe, Guy Gavriel Kay are some I would put into the same league, even if their scope isn't as epic.
|
# ? Jul 18, 2011 18:12 |
|
Lamprey pie from wikipedia:
|
# ? Jul 18, 2011 18:13 |
|
Did anyone catch the little hint in Cersei's last chapter about how Littlefinger probably told Joffrey to kill Ned? Here is the quote from the chapter I'm referring to: "I would have made Sansa a good marriage. A Lannister marriage. Not Joff, of course, but Lancel might have suited, or one of his younger brothers. Petyr Baelish had offered to wed the girl himself, she recalled, but of course that was impossible; he was much too lowborn. If Joff had only done as he was told, Winterfell would never have gone to war, and Father would have dealt with Robert's brothers." My partner pointed this out for me just now, and although it isn't explicit, Gurm likes to hide stuff like this everywhere.
|
# ? Jul 18, 2011 18:35 |
|
Xander77 posted:A) A better prose writer than Tolkien isn't even praise to be damned with. Well, yeah, he's not a great writer if we're putting him up against the greats, but he's by far the best in the genre, approaching levels of contemporary fiction masterpieces. However, AFFC/ADWD's writing is superb.
|
# ? Jul 18, 2011 18:37 |
|
Lenin Stimpy posted:Did anyone catch the little hint in Cersei's last chapter about how Littlefinger probably told Joffrey to kill Ned? How does that quote carry that implication? I don't follow. Are you saying he did it knowing that it would lead to Sansa being freed up? Because that seems like kind of a stretch.
|
# ? Jul 18, 2011 18:38 |
|
I think it's supposed to be "Petyr realizes that he will have no chance at getting Sansa if there isn't a war"->"Petyr tells Joffrey that sending Ned to the wall would be cowardly as hell and people would laugh at his womanly heart or whatever so that there will be a war". But that quote doesn't seem imply that so I dunno.
|
# ? Jul 18, 2011 18:40 |
|
withak posted:Lamprey pie from wikipedia: quote:Every stool was looser than the one before, and smelled fouler. By the time the moon came up she was making GBS threads brown water. The more she drank, the more she shat, but the more she shat, the thirstier she grew, and her thirst sent her crawling to the stream to suck up more water.
|
# ? Jul 18, 2011 18:43 |
|
Aurubin posted:This is a sort lemoncakes esque question but do people actually eat lampreys? Lamprey pie seems to be a perennial favorite on either side of the Narrow Sea. It has very fatty meat and no bones (just some cartilage). Not a big surprise it used to be a delicacy back in the day.
|
# ? Jul 18, 2011 18:44 |
Also Littlefinger hated Ned and had quite a bit to do with starting the whole war by falsely implicating Tyrion. Oh god I am actually discussing the books instead of reading winne the pooh/jamie slashfic what happened
|
|
# ? Jul 18, 2011 18:44 |
|
Yeah I mean it doesn't seem like an implausible theory just looking at the characters, I just don't see how that quote has anything to do with it.
|
# ? Jul 18, 2011 18:47 |
|
You know what would have been great? A single Petyr chapter after the red wedding where we get to see him reacting to Catelyn being murdered e; Typing that made me realize that Littlefinger probably hates the Frey's. That should be fun, what with him being the liege lord of the riverlands.
|
# ? Jul 18, 2011 18:48 |
|
Lenin Stimpy posted:Did anyone catch the little hint in Cersei's last chapter about how Littlefinger probably told Joffrey to kill Ned? No no no no no no. Joffery was supposed to send Ned to the wall, but instead had him killed. That's what that quote meant. Stop reading into poo poo that isn't there.
|
# ? Jul 18, 2011 19:09 |
|
Finished up Dance last night, and while I enjoyed it, I can't help but echo some of the comments regarding the necessity for both Feast AND Dance. I enjoyed both books, don't get me wrong. I probably liked Feast more than most in the SA GRRM fan community. But both books seemed to have a lot of material that I felt was either unnecessary or just over-expanded on, and it just seems like there must have been a way to combine them into one (which would have been better than the sum of its parts). Specific thoughts: Enjoyed: - The Jons. With Snow, I felt like that was the story that, despite having little physical movement, progressed more than anything else. That is, that Jon was actually undertaking and accomplishing a whole lot of pretty big things with getting the wildlings settled on the other side of the wall, recruiting a bunch of them into the Watch, GIANTS, and so on. With Connington, his story moved like Tyrion/Dany's should have, and I liked his persona. - Barristan the Badass. Yeah boy. - Dany riding her dragon. - Ser Robert Strong and Cersei - interested to see how that's going to go. - Arya's limited appearance, though I'm still not sure why her parts didn't make it into Feast. Not so enjoyed: - Tyrion and Dany. Ugh. Tyrion was off and on alright, I guess, but fell well short of previous books. Dany was just boring. I didn't skip or skim her chapters like some here apparently did, but I definitely groaned when I would get to one of hers, especially if it followed one of the Jons, Arya, etc... - Victarion. Eh. He had some good POVs, and things definitely took a turn for the better once Moqorro entered the picture, but his whole enterprise just annoys me because it was such an obvious ploy of his brother's to get him out of his hair / make him look like a toady, and yet Victarion just doesn't get it. I guess it's just a bit frustrating that he's sort of a dumbass. - The image of that lamprey/rice dish above. Other thoughts: - Continue to enjoy Jaime and his new outlook on life, but that last scene was a whole load of I like the one poster's hypothesis that Brienne is bringing him back to fight the "Hound" just to prove how serious he really is about keeping his oath, but it was still an odd scene. Habibi fucked around with this message at 19:12 on Jul 18, 2011 |
# ? Jul 18, 2011 19:10 |
|
Kainser posted:You know what would have been great? A single Petyr chapter after the red wedding where we get to see him reacting to Catelyn being murdered Dude, everyone hates the Freys. The Freys are like the OPEC of Westeros. Everyone gets along with them when necessary, but I don't think a single house would bat an eyelash if the opportunity to wipe them out presented itself. This includes the Starks, the Tullys, the Lannisters, the Boltons, the Baelishes, the Arryns, etc... And since the Red Wedding they're hated even more.
|
# ? Jul 18, 2011 19:16 |
|
Walder Frey is no fool. That's why he's diversifying his investment portfolio so assiduously. And they thought it was because he was just a randy old goat
|
# ? Jul 18, 2011 19:19 |
Vicatrion knows what his brother is doing, he just decided to get the dragons for himself, dragons before bros.
|
|
# ? Jul 18, 2011 19:20 |
|
Habibi posted:Dude, everyone hates the Freys. The Freys are like the OPEC of Westeros. Everyone gets along with them when necessary, but I don't think a single house would bat an eyelash if the opportunity to wipe them out presented itself. This includes the Starks, the Tullys, the Lannisters, the Boltons, the Baelishes, the Arryns, etc... And since the Red Wedding they're hated even more. vvv: I think you are greatly overestimating the Umbers and the Greatjon. Kainser fucked around with this message at 19:25 on Jul 18, 2011 |
# ? Jul 18, 2011 19:20 |
|
|
# ? Mar 28, 2024 16:36 |
|
The clock is ticking on the Freys. No way they make it out alive. Big fat soft Manderly hates them so much he turned them into food. And they have the Greatjon imprisoned. They either: let him out (and he kills them) or kill him (and the Umbers don't leave a stone standing on top of another stone where the Twins used to be). Littlefinger has cause to hate them, their allies the Lannisters are on their way out and I'm not sure where the Freys stand w/r/t the Tyrells. They're propped up by the Boltons right now, who are also surrounded by as many enemies as they are friends with the winter on its way. They're toast edit: There's a fair amount of talk throughout the books about the Umbers being a fairly strong force in the north. The Freys made an explicit point of making sure that the Greatjon was captured during the Red Wedding to ensure their loyalty, from which it seems a fair inference that the Freys are cautious or afraid of the Umbers. Also, if Jon got his way / Stannis listens to him, they'll be given Winterfell if it's retaken hypocrite lecteur fucked around with this message at 19:44 on Jul 18, 2011 |
# ? Jul 18, 2011 19:24 |