|
Orgophlax posted:He has a point about WAR, which is like 1.something. You're telling me Howard is only good for 1 more win than Ross Gload would be? Ross Gload's B-Ref WAR is -0.1. Howard's is 1.9. Wins above replacement are hard to amass. They're not like pitcher wins.
|
#
?
Jul 13, 2011 16:44
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 23, 2024 14:32 |
|
|
Orgophlax posted:He has a point about WAR, which is like 1.something. You're telling me Howard is only good for 1 more win than Ross Gload would be? Grab a no-glove, all-bat dude off the waiver wire to play first base and he should be able to put up at least a league average OPS, 15-18 HR in a year's worth of PA. There are only 3 qualified 1B with an OPS under .740 and they're all producing negative WAR. Your "league average" position player is worth about 2-3 WAR. 1.x WAR through about half a season for a league average player sounds about right.
|
|
#
?
Jul 13, 2011 17:01
|
|
|
Conlin loves RBI. Always has. I can't believe he isn't dead yet though. I do like his stories when he talks about poo poo that happened in the 60s and 70s. Sometimes it is some good history. According to this http://www.baseball-reference.com/p...x=1&submitter=1 I sorted by OPS+ Howard is an average 1b. Maybe even below average. BUT RBI euphronius fucked around with this message at 17:09 on Jul 13, 2011 |
|
#
?
Jul 13, 2011 17:05
|
|
|
Badfinger posted:Grab a no-glove, all-bat dude off the waiver wire to play first base and he should be able to put up at least a league average OPS, 15-18 HR in a year's worth of PA. There are only 3 qualified 1B with an OPS under .740 and they're all producing negative WAR.
|
|
#
?
Jul 13, 2011 17:10
|
|
|
Orgophlax posted:His point wasn't that his WAR number was wrong, it's that it's pointless to use to determine worth. There's no way with Ross Gload in the lineup everyday rather than Howard the Phillies would be close to the record they have now. I would not imagine it to be very different. Maybe like 2 wins or so. They are not winning because their first baseman is good.
|
|
#
?
Jul 13, 2011 17:11
|
|
|
How is it that the Phillies are able to trot out a rotation of loving Halladay/Lee/Hamels and Howard is STILL the guy journalists will not shut up about as the reason the team is worth following.
|
|
#
?
Jul 13, 2011 17:23
|
|
|
Orgophlax posted:His point wasn't that his WAR number was wrong, it's that it's pointless to use to determine worth. There's no way with Ross Gload in the lineup everyday rather than Howard the Phillies would be close to the record they have now. Yes, they would be quite close.
|
|
#
?
Jul 13, 2011 17:34
|
|
|
Orgophlax posted:His point wasn't that his WAR number was wrong, it's that it's pointless to use to determine worth. There's no way with Ross Gload in the lineup everyday rather than Howard the Phillies would be close to the record they have now. I'm not sure you understand how easy it is to find someone who can hit and play first base. You have to reevaluate your standards for a bat based on position
|
|
#
?
Jul 13, 2011 17:36
|
|
|
Nate RFB posted:How is it that the Phillies are able to trot out a rotation of loving Halladay/Lee/Hamels and Howard is STILL the guy journalists will not shut up about as the reason the team is worth following. *ribbies *dingers *pitchers don't have many of those so their stats are confusing and irrelevant (except Wins and Saves of course)
|
|
#
?
Jul 13, 2011 17:44
|
|
|
Orgophlax posted:His point wasn't that his WAR number was wrong, it's that it's pointless to use to determine worth. There's no way with Ross Gload in the lineup everyday rather than Howard the Phillies would be close to the record they have now. Imagine John Mayberry with 350 PA this season at 1B. They'd probably be about a 55 win team right now.
|
|
#
?
Jul 13, 2011 18:02
|
|
|
I love Conlin's response to how it is a travesty Howard gets as much money as Adrian Gonzalez: "Yeah well Howard just hit a single!" Also I wonder why he didn't compare the relative OPSs between Howard and Chuck Klein.
|
|
#
?
Jul 13, 2011 18:15
|
|
|
But but but Howard is the preeminent slugger of our generation, it's not like his epic .828 OPS could be replaced with Ty Wigginton, or Mike Morse, or Giambi, or Daniel Murphy, or David Murphy, or Napoli, or Pat Burrell, or Billy Butler, or Luke Scott, or Juan Miranda, or Derrek Lee, or Seth Smith, or Cody Ross, or Johnny Damon, or Jeff Francouer, or Wily Mo, or
|
|
#
?
Jul 13, 2011 18:19
|
|
|
The Pussy Boss posted:But but but Howard is the preeminent slugger of our generation, it's not like his epic .828 OPS could be replaced with Ty Wigginton, or Mike Morse, or Giambi, or Daniel Murphy, or David Murphy, or Napoli, or Pat Burrell, or Billy Butler, or Luke Scott, or Juan Miranda, or Derrek Lee, or Seth Smith, or Cody Ross, or Johnny Damon, or Jeff Francouer, or Wily Mo, or Im not disagreeing with the overall point but you seriously think Wily Mo Pena could put up an .828 OPS?
|
|
#
?
Jul 13, 2011 18:29
|
|
|
If Ryan Howard was a free agent at the end of the year, I would give literally no fucks that the Phillies are paying ~$20 mil this year for an average first baseman. Because he is at least an average first baseman. He's not a HORRIBLE player, he's just wildly, hideously overpaid. I would not even give fucks that sportswriters would be writing articles that would say the Phillies desperately need to re-sign Howard whatever the cost, because of all his ribbies, when they obviously shouldn't. He has some value, I wouldn't have minded a sane deal. Sportswriters writing hyperbolic articles about keeping a nice guy on a great team who's won hardware in the past is par for the course. But with already overpaid Ryan Howard on the books for 5 more expensive years that haven't even started yet, you get idiot sportswriters making articles trying to JUSTIFY the deal. And that's where the train crashes then explodes then the fires from the explosions hit a gas station.
|
|
#
?
Jul 13, 2011 18:30
|
|
|
toadee posted:Im not disagreeing with the overall point but you seriously think Wily Mo Pena could put up an .828 OPS? he's done it before. Twice, actually.
|
|
#
?
Jul 13, 2011 18:34
|
|
|
That comparison between Howard and Adrian Gonzalez caused me to look up Adrian's UZR for the first time this season, and his UZR/150 is at loving 11.2. I knew he was doing well defensively just from watching him play, but that seems loving absurd for a first baseman. Pujols-esque, even. I wonder how that writer would react to a smug nerd quoting fangraphs actual dollar value and being like "Well you see Howard is really only worth $5.6 million a year right now"  . Does anyone else find it really loving amusing to behave like a caricature of a "mothers basement" type just to piss guys like that off on twitter and stuff?
|
|
#
?
Jul 14, 2011 03:15
|
|
|
Hey Mariner fans, worried about the future? Don't worry! Art Thiel has you covered! Since he's The Mariners need to move Ichiro, Felix now." quote:During his [Ichiro's] time here, it’s fair to speculate that the biggest issue affecting his performance is all the turmoil and losing. The Mariners’ failures have to eat at a guy whose professional standards are so high. I love Ichiro, but who the gently caress is going to take him and net us two starting players, and prospects for him and Brandon League? quote:More painful would be the departure of Hernandez, because of his youth. But his talent puts him nearly in the Alex Rodriguez class, which means he’s destined for a big market. Alex Rodriguez's departure sucked. The next season the Mariners coped by winning an AL-record 116 games. Christ, this guy has an HoF vote too.
|
|
#
?
Jul 14, 2011 06:27
|
|
|
Well if Tom Hicks weren't a total dumbass the Mariners probably could have re-signed A-Rod. That's a bad argument.
|
|
#
?
Jul 14, 2011 06:31
|
|
|
Just because they won 116 games doesn't mean letting A-Rod leave was a good thing
|
|
#
?
Jul 14, 2011 06:32
|
|
|
Nodoze posted:Just because they won 116 games doesn't mean letting A-Rod leave was a good thing I'm not really sure what the budget situation was like for the Mariners, but that may have prevented the signing of Ichiro and Bret Boone, who ended up being the best players on the team in 2001. So I'm not really going to complain about A-Rod walking for a massively overpaid contract.
|
|
#
?
Jul 14, 2011 06:41
|
|
|
Bret Boone probably avoids Seattle but you don't think Nintendo would pony up the cash for Ichiro? And A-Rod would probably make up for Boone and sustain it.
|
|
#
?
Jul 14, 2011 08:03
|
|
|
Wikipedia says Seattle's winning bid for his posting was 13 million, plus a 14 mil 3 year contract. Obviously at the time very few people expected he would be as good in MLB as he was in Japan but even so that's obviously a huge bargain for the level of production he put up in those first few seasons.
|
|
#
?
Jul 14, 2011 08:23
|
|
|
Looking up the WARs Seattle paid 147 million to Ichiro and Boone from 2001-2011 for 73 WAR. Texas and NY paid A-Rod 252 million for 68.4 WAR.
|
|
#
?
Jul 14, 2011 08:32
|
|
|
The Pussy Boss posted:But but but Howard is the preeminent slugger of our generation, it's not like his epic .828 OPS could be replaced with Ty Wigginton, or Mike Morse, or Giambi, or Daniel Murphy, or David Murphy, or Napoli, or Pat Burrell, or Billy Butler, or Luke Scott, or Juan Miranda, or Derrek Lee, or Seth Smith, or Cody Ross, or Johnny Damon, or Jeff Francouer, or Wily Mo, or Howard has a career .933 OPS and not one of those players you mentioned have shown the ability to consistently put up an .850 OPS. It is possible to believe that Howard is overpaid and that he is a good and valuable player, especially for a team with an average offense like the Phillies.
|
|
#
?
Jul 14, 2011 10:55
|
|
|
I'm pretty sure those guys barely make Ryan Howard's salary combined. Which means you could pick a righty and a lefty off the list, get something in the ballpark of Howard's likely production for the next year or two, and have the other 16 million left over to go sign third basemen and left fielders.
|
|
#
?
Jul 14, 2011 13:17
|
|
|
Meanwhile in Brazil, ESPN celebrates the day of rock or whatever http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FadX0bLffs4 They spent the entire show like that
|
|
#
?
Jul 18, 2011 01:29
|
|
|
http://www.kansascity.com/2011/07/16/3018430/judging-the-royals-midseason-review.html This thing is amazing. According to it Yuniesky Betancourt was the Royals MVP last year. This is the mid year review this year. Highlights include a SS OPSing .631 tied for being the second best player on the team with loving Frenchy, Chris Getz being the fifth. Oh and this gem: quote:Getz should be the poster boy for Ron Polk’s system: It was designed to reveal the worth of players like him. Tell a sabermetrics guy that Getz is a better all-round ballplayer than Billy Butler and he’ll have an asthma attack and ask his mom to bring him a fresh box of Pop Tarts. But really, the whole thing is great. Frankly Melky Cabrera (even though he's better than I thought he'd be) being #1 is as comical as anything. Grittybeard fucked around with this message at 01:43 on Jul 18, 2011 |
|
#
?
Jul 18, 2011 01:40
|
|
|
hahahaha the Frenchy entry is the best ever e: oh man the scoring is the most nonsensical thing. a CG is worth as much as a save Groucho Marxist fucked around with this message at 01:57 on Jul 18, 2011 |
|
#
?
Jul 18, 2011 01:52
|
|
|
According to the comments section the guy who wrote that is their political cartoonist. You left quite a void when you left the Star, didn't you Joe Pos?
|
|
#
?
Jul 18, 2011 22:33
|
|
|
•LIMITATIONS: Gordon leads the team in strikeouts and strikeouts looking. strikeouts AND strikeouts looking 
|
|
#
?
Jul 18, 2011 23:57
|
|
|
hcreight posted:You left quite a void when you left the Star, didn't you Joe Pos? Whitlock certainly did, anyway.
|
|
#
?
Jul 19, 2011 02:26
|
|
|
The irony is that the goal of SABRmetrics is to try and quantify the best and most valuable players. The only difference between that and the "MVP system" is that the MVP system is more ambiguous and subjective. He can use any system he wants, I don't think anyone is going to care much, but there's no need to get defensive and lash out at some imaginary boogeynerd.
|
|
#
?
Jul 19, 2011 14:11
|
|
|
A hilariously hyperbolic and overwrought little editorial. http://www.latimes.com/sports/la-sp-0719-simers-20110719,0,4611578,full.column T.J. Simers L.A. Times posted:U.S. women's loss to Japan in World Cup final was disgraceful
|
|
#
?
Jul 19, 2011 15:33
|
|
|
Oh no, a team lost an insanely close, hard fought game to the team that just beat the other two best teams in the sport, what a choke job! Did Japan win or did Germany, Sweden and the US all manage to lose?
|
|
#
?
Jul 19, 2011 15:40
|
|
|
TJ Simers is a fuckface.
|
|
#
?
Jul 19, 2011 15:43
|
|
|
That column is ridiculously overblown but wasn't it lovely to give up two late, tying goals like that? I honestly don't know, I don't know how often that happens in soccer or how often it should happen between two teams of that skill. The "winning a soccer tournament is consolation for the earthquake and tsunami" angle I've heard from some people is much more repugnant than "did America choke or not".
|
|
#
?
Jul 19, 2011 16:31
|
|
|
It has to be said that Simers long ago gave up any claim to being a real columnist. He's a print version of Skip Bayless, except his stuff is even more obviously meant to piss people off. Seriously, he barely tries to hide it.
|
|
#
?
Jul 19, 2011 16:52
|
|
|
ElwoodCuse posted:The "winning a soccer tournament is consolation for the earthquake and tsunami" angle I've heard from some people is much more repugnant than "did America choke or not". Did that just become a thing around 9/11? That's the earliest I can remember sports writers pulling the "if ever a city needs a title right now" bullshit.
|
|
#
?
Jul 19, 2011 18:01
|
|
|
Moose Bigelow posted:Did that just become a thing around 9/11? That's the earliest I can remember sports writers pulling the "if ever a city needs a title right now" bullshit. Yes and the Arizona Diamondbacks needed it more than the Yankees 
|
|
#
?
Jul 19, 2011 18:02
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 23, 2024 14:32 |
|
|
Kalli posted:Oh no, a team lost an insanely close, hard fought game to the team that just beat the other two best teams in the sport, what a choke job! I also love all the comparisons (not just here, but on television too) to the Mavs-Heat series, and just how incredibly superior both the Heat and USA were to the Mavs/Japan respectively. I mean, I suppose it's true in the sense that both teams were only modest (though, admittedly, clear) favorites going into their respective finals, but that's not what they're going for.
|
|
#
?
Jul 19, 2011 19:05
|
|
