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DahtBard posted:Wasn't he the Kingsguard sent to get Myrcella from Dorne? Y'know, because Oakheart got Darkstar'd. Also throwing in some love for the Areo Hotah POV; I don't get why Barristan gets all the love for being a badass sentry and Hotah doesn't. Ahh that could be. Sometimes it feels like a couple Kingsguard are missing. However, 1) Jaime Lannister 2) Meryn Trant 3) Boros Blount 4) Balon Swann 5) Osmond Kettleblack (does he count? in a dungeon) 6) Loras Tyrell (now crispy) 7) Robert Strong (this will be an interesting reveal since it's almost TOO obvious) Yep, ok forgot about Balon Swann, had to look it up. Also Hotah does own. *shrug* "someone told"
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Jul 19, 2011 02:49
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Catiline posted:I was re-reading Kevan's chapter and I noticed that Boros Blount (food taster) doesn't seem to be in a good way. Perhaps someone's trying to poison Tommen? Nah, if it was that slow-acting of a poison Tommen would have eaten it too. I wouldn't put it past Varys though to poison Boros' food as he seems to be eradicating everything stable in King's Landing.
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Jul 19, 2011 02:50
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priznat posted:Was Meryn Trant mentioned in ADWD? I can't recall.. He's gonna get his for killing Syrio He was mentioned in Arya's 'prayer'.
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Jul 19, 2011 02:57
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Hotah and Selmy should get together for a beer sometime.
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Jul 19, 2011 02:58
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DahtBard posted:Wasn't he the Kingsguard sent to get Myrcella from Dorne? Y'know, because Oakheart got Darkstar'd. Also throwing in some love for the Areo Hotah POV; I don't get why Barristan gets all the love for being a badass sentry and Hotah doesn't. Because Selmy is an actual character and Hotah is a glorified extra with an Axe.
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Jul 19, 2011 02:58
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Valithan posted:I feel like the series is slowly turning into Harry Potter as well; at this point everything is loving magical. The prominence of magic/generic fantasy stuff has slowly increased as the series goes on to the point where the only POV that doesn't feature anything high fantasy are the Theon/Reek ones (I don't think it's a coincidence that people seem to like his chapters the best in ADWD). Part of the reason the Manderly bit is so satisfying/the Theon POVs are good is because it goes back to what the earlier books were about : the different houses/hidden motivations/allegiances/rivalries/ ect. I dunno, I still think it's being handled pretty well. There were hints all along that actual fantasy stuff was about to start happening. It's not like you couldn't see it coming a mile away from like the prologue of book 1.
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Jul 19, 2011 03:18
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DahtBard posted:Wasn't he the Kingsguard sent to get Myrcella from Dorne? Y'know, because Oakheart got Darkstar'd. Also throwing in some love for the Areo Hotah POV; I don't get why Barristan gets all the love for being a badass sentry and Hotah doesn't. Barristan is a lot more active towards the end of the book. He also said he was planning something for the hostages, and you just know it's going to be awesome - that is, of course, presuming the trebuchets at the end weren't pitching the hostages into the city, rather than plague victims (they said corpses, actually, so it's probably plague victims).
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Jul 19, 2011 03:28
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What he has planned for the hostages is explicitly spelled out in one of the PoVs. He makes a promise to one of the merc companies that if they infiltrate & get the hostages back he'll give them a reward. This was before the plague corpses thing, the hostages are probably toast, but who knows? GRRM is a bad writer and the only method of dramatic tension he knows is the cliffhanger so we'll literally get to wait 6 years to find out
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Jul 19, 2011 03:43
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My main problem with the 5th book is how many new loose end it has opened. So many twists are relied on newly introduced characters. It basically....has changed the game rule of the series so much that its impossible to predict the future books. On the other hand, quite a few of the secrets that I care about (for example, the true motive of Varys and Illyrio) has revealed. I find myself not as eager to look forward to the next book as I did with ADWD. There are quite a few secrets I am sure will only reveal in the final book, for example, * The deal with Rheagar and Lyanna * The deal with Ashara * The Others * The importance of Bran I actually doesn't care about these secrets myself. So if GRRM kicks the bucket, I will feel bad only because I won't be able to find out the result of these loose ends: * Will Bronn come back and kcik major rear end? * Will Ramsay Bolton get skinned? * Will Tyrion find his wife? * What will happen to Asha? At these point, I can't think about other character I care about. Book 5 kind of hosed up both Jon and Dany for me. I don't care about them any more.
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Jul 19, 2011 04:03
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The letter sent to Jon in his last chapter might not have been from Ramsay. There is only one other person that could have known the details in that letter, and that person is Mance Rayder. Mance knows about the magic sword, and Melisandre. Mance knows about the burning of the fake King-Beyond-the-Wall (which I don't think Jon told anyone but the wildlings about, making this something Ramsay would not know). Mance knows he took 6 spearwives with him down to Winterfell. Mance knows that Ramsay's bride is gone. The writer demands for Queen Selyse, Shireen, Melisandre, Val, the "little prince", and Reek. At first, I wasn't sure how Mance would know about Reek, but then I realized at the end of Theon's 2nd to last chapter (A Ghost in Winterfell), Theon was on his way to tell Mance his story, which most likely happened off-screen before Theon helped Jeyne escape. Note that the writer is asking for both Val and the "little prince". Would Ramsay be able to get this information out of Mance? I'm not too sure. Also, the "little prince" is Melisandre's justification for why Mance must do as he's told. Some ideas regarding this theory: 1. Jon fights Rattleshirt not knowing that it's Mance. A metaphor for this letter, perhaps. 2. What was Mance up to at Winterfell? He mentioned some sort of "plot" in the Melisandre chapter. 3. Why did Melisandre swap Rattleshirt for Mance in the cage at the beginning of ADWD? 4. Melisandre might be a part of this, somehow. She was behaving somewhat oddly in Jon's last chapter. From her chapter, we know that she feels pain when the person with her "glamour" is suffering. Did Mance have his glamour on when he went to Winterfell? I don't remember. 5. Do you really think Mance would sit around in Winterfell doing nothing when the spearwives were sneaking Jeyne out? He knows the Winterfell castle better than anyone. 6. Why would Mance have the spearwives try to save Jeyne even though he knew it wasn't Arya? Mance was at Winterfell the night Robert came north to ask Ned to be his hand and surely caught a glimpse of Arya. 7. Does anyone even know what Mance looks like besides those who were north of the wall or those who were there to see the fake Mance burn? Mance seems hardened as gently caress, I'm not too sure torture could get his name out of him, much less that he has a child and "princess". What do y'all think? Lenin Stimpy fucked around with this message at 04:26 on Jul 19, 2011 |
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Jul 19, 2011 04:22
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That is a really convincing argument.
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Jul 19, 2011 04:40
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That Ramsay has captured and tortured Mance Rayder, as is implied in the letter, is simply more plausible. Ramsay has written the letter and include in it some truth (he has Mance, he believes Jeyne has escaped) and some lies (Stannis dead - we know this is highly unlikely because Jeyne is with Stannis). We know the escape went wrong, we know they got separated from Mance, we know at least a couple of the spearwives are dead or captured. The details that only Mance could know is Ramsay's proof that he has Mance - it's in there to strengthen his lie at the start. Mance has no motivation to write it.
hampig fucked around with this message at 04:45 on Jul 19, 2011 |
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Jul 19, 2011 04:42
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A little reminder on the exact content of the letter:"Ramsay" posted:Your false king is dead, bastard. He and all his host were smashed in seven days of battle. I have his magic sword. Tell his red whore.
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Jul 19, 2011 04:43
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I'm back, baby. So, Mance sent the letter, Lord Fat ate the Freys, Zombie Drogo, Zombie Gregor, Jon Snow is definitively Azor Ahai, the Banker tipped off Stannis, the Maesters have changed history, and Bran is an ent. What else happened?
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Jul 19, 2011 04:48
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hampig posted:That Ramsay has captured and tortured Mance Rayder, as is implied in the letter, is simply more plausible. Ramsay has written the letter and include in it some truth (he has Mance, he believes Jeyne has escaped) and some lies (Stannis dead - we know this is highly unlikely because Jeyne is with Stannis). We know the escape went wrong, we know they got separated from Mance, we know at least a couple of the spearwives are dead or captured. The details that only Mance could know is Ramsay's proof that he has Mance - it's in there to strengthen his lie at the start. Mance has no motivation to write it. Although if Ramsay sent it, you'd expect him to send a piece of Mance, wouldn't you?
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Jul 19, 2011 04:50
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You can send a piece of skin from anyone, that information could only have come from Mance.
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Jul 19, 2011 04:51
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Tony Danza Claus posted:I'm back, baby. Dany got Montezuma's Revenge and Pretty the Pig was eaten by a hermaphrodite.
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Jul 19, 2011 05:03
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Neurosis posted:Barristan is a lot more active towards the end of the book. He also said he was planning something for the hostages, and you just know it's going to be awesome - that is, of course, presuming the trebuchets at the end weren't pitching the hostages into the city, rather than plague victims (they said corpses, actually, so it's probably plague victims). It's hostages. They specifically say "all six." There were 7, except the admiral got his head lopped off prior to that. e: removed the rest; I don't understand how this thread works 
FairGame fucked around with this message at 05:22 on Jul 19, 2011 |
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Jul 19, 2011 05:06
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hampig posted:Mance has no motivation to write it. He wants his babby
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Jul 19, 2011 05:10
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Wow. Lots of book talk going on in here. Almost didn't recognize the place... Anywho, it just doesn't strike me as a ploy Mance would pull. I think he would be much more clever than just sending an angry letter.
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Jul 19, 2011 05:31
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hampig posted:That Ramsay has captured and tortured Mance Rayder, as is implied in the letter, is simply more plausible. Ramsay has written the letter and include in it some truth (he has Mance, he believes Jeyne has escaped) and some lies (Stannis dead - we know this is highly unlikely because Jeyne is with Stannis). We know the escape went wrong, we know they got separated from Mance, we know at least a couple of the spearwives are dead or captured. The details that only Mance could know is Ramsay's proof that he has Mance - it's in there to strengthen his lie at the start. Mance has no motivation to write it. In the GRRM universe, all conjecture is a lie. Anything written on paper is a lie. And if Martin cuts away from the scene to something else... anything heard about it afterwards is a lie. Case-in-point: Davos' execution, Gregor's death, Bran and Rickon's murders, the Hound pillaging across Westeros If we didn't read it, it didn't happen. Therefor Bolton got his butt kicked. Edit: Maybe Job was stabbed because he wasn't supposed to go South after all? Up until then his honor and duty to the Wall were unquestionable. Maybe he was supposed to send Wildlings to fight for him and he messed up Melisandre's plans for something? Pure speculation. Ghost Hat fucked around with this message at 05:58 on Jul 19, 2011 |
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Jul 19, 2011 05:53
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Regarding the Lannister inheritance from earlier - would Devan stand a chance to get it? Because he seems a pretty chill guy from his conversations with Jaime.
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Jul 19, 2011 06:14
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But if mance wrote it why is he demanding ramsay's wife... 
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Jul 19, 2011 06:19
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Wait a second...quote:Ramsay Bolton, Isn't Big Daddy Bolton the Lord of Winterfell while he's alive? Further proof that Ramsay's off Roose's leash?
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Jul 19, 2011 06:31
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Decius posted:Regarding the Lannister inheritance from earlier - would Devan stand a chance to get it? Because he seems a pretty chill guy from his conversations with Jaime. If/when Cersei is removed, it would pass to Kevan's children (since Tyrion was attainted). So, Lancel if he can still inherit, or Martyn if he can't.
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Jul 19, 2011 06:34
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Fly Molo posted:Wait a second... I think Ramsay is Lord of Winterfell by virtue of his marriage to Fake Arya. Roose is still Lord of the Dreadfort and Warden of the North.
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Jul 19, 2011 06:34
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Solice Kirsk posted:Wow. Lots of book talk going on in here. Almost didn't recognize the place... Anywho, it just doesn't strike me as a ploy Mance would pull. I think he would be much more clever than just sending an angry letter. I like that theory specifically because it sounds exactly like something Mance would do. Let's not forget this is the guy who decided to go sneaking into Winterfell to see the king's party way back in GoT. And jovial as he sometimes seems, he gives the impression that he'd gladly gently caress Jon / Stannis for everything they pulled on 'his people.' Fly Molo posted:Isn't Big Daddy Bolton the Lord of Winterfell while he's alive? Further proof that Ramsay's off Roose's leash? Nah, Ramsay got Winterfell by virtue of 'Arya.' Daddy Roose is the Lord of the Dreadfort. E:f;b E2: The Kingsguardian sent to retrieve Myrcella/deliver 'Gregor's' head was Balon Swann. I can't recall Trant being mentioned at all in the last two books, but I may be misremembering.
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Jul 19, 2011 07:00
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Trant was in the Kevan epilogue. Kevan notes Trant guarding the bridge to Maegor's holdfast, and then notes Blount (being fat and weak) as he enters the room Cersei and Tommen (and Ser Pounce) are in. So, Jaime Lannister - with Brienne Loras Tyrell - dying at Dragonstone Osmund Kettleblack - in a dungeon Balon Swann - in Dorne Meryn Trant - with Tommen Boros Blount - with Tommen Zombie Gregor - poised for rape The Anime Liker fucked around with this message at 07:18 on Jul 19, 2011 |
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Jul 19, 2011 07:13
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And while he's no Kingsguard, Littlefinger is with Sansa in the Vale. I really hope that the intended endgame of Arya's and Sansa's story is that they reconciliate and work together on bringing Littlefinger down. Sansa can do the spying scheming stuff, and Arya the stabby sneaky stuff. The outcome: sisterly love forever, feeling of warmth and goodness spreading inside. ... meanwhile, I'm really curious what Littlefinger intends to do in the current situation. The story has really moved away from him, hasn't it? Is he even still a player?
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Jul 19, 2011 08:08
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Well Littlefinger's endgame is to seize as much power for himself, which is fine except for the fact that the more he mucks things up the weaker the kingdoms will be against the Others when they come pouring through the Wall. Varys on the other hand seems to be sewing chaos in order to ensure an orderly transition to a Targ government which has dragons that can melt Others.
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Jul 19, 2011 08:25
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FairGame posted:It's hostages. They specifically say "all six." I thought it was hostages because of the "all six" but if you recall all the relatives of the king got returned already (obviously meaning he is in on the whole thing) so there are only like 3 left... Daario, (hope he dies) the Unsullied Hero, and Jhogo the bloodrider. So I think its just plaguebodies.
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Jul 19, 2011 08:27
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Habibi posted:There HAS to be something up with Patchface, there just HAS to be. I don't know if it's the lines Martin gave him, or the way he's been written, or the reaction to him from several characters / Melisandre, but there's going to be some weird poo poo going on with him. I have no idea what it's going to be or how or when or why, but SOMETHING will happen. It is interesting to note that he was the sole survivor of the storm that brought Lord Steffon Baratheon (Robert's, Stannis' and Renly's father back from one of the free cities. They send message that they had found a jester that would even make Stannis smile). The ship sunk and everybody died except Patchface, which has been making these weird jests/prophecies/visions since then. meristem posted:... meanwhile, I'm really curious what Littlefinger intends to do in the current situation. The story has really moved away from him, hasn't it? Is he even still a player? Yes, I think he is. If his plan works out (marry Sansa to Harry the Heir, have Sansa inherrit Winterfell), he will be the defacto power behind the throne of the Vale, the North, and a big part of the riverlands via Harrenhall. If now the Golden Company + Dorne fight Highgarden + Lannister, and it comes to a pyrrhic victory for one them, he will have the single-most power army on the continent. Paxton Redwyne and the Ironborn can do something similar. Here is a 3-part essay on Littlefinger. I think it is one of the weaker from Tower of the Hand, but still a decent read. http://towerofthehand.com/blog/2011/03/29-mockingbird-part-1-as-high-as/index.html OperaMouse fucked around with this message at 09:26 on Jul 19, 2011 |
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Jul 19, 2011 09:23
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bigmcgaffney posted:Must needs, leal, neeps, 'biggest breasts ever seen' and 'WHERE DO WHORES GO' were overused and obnoxious. Much and more. Much and more.
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Jul 19, 2011 09:24
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Lenin Stimpy posted:The letter sent to Jon in his last chapter might not have been from Ramsay. There is only one other person that could have known the details in that letter, and that person is Mance Rayder. One thing that stood out to me after seeing this was how Ramsay's handwriting is shown as "huge, spiky hand," where there's no mention of that in Jon's. I know for certain it's in the Wayward Bride chapter. I'm trying to remember the other spots I've seen it, but I can't recall. Maybe the Davos chapter when he meets with Manderly? Also, whereas Ramsay's letter to Asha was done "in a hard button of pink wax" this was a "smear." If anything, Ramsay has shown himself as a lover of routine--maybe he'd be OCD about his sealing. A stretch, but the words conjure different images. The signing as Trueborn Lord of Winterfell is also interesting, since Ramsay didn't do that in his other letters. One other thing that came up for me is the mention of Reek--I doubt anyone on the wall would know who he is. Mance, on the other hand...
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Jul 19, 2011 09:24
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Untimely Brigand posted:One thing that stood out to me after seeing this was how Ramsay's handwriting is shown as "huge, spiky hand," where there's no mention of that in Jon's. I know for certain it's in the Wayward Bride chapter. I'm trying to remember the other spots I've seen it, but I can't recall. Maybe the Davos chapter when he meets with Manderly? One other things about the letters that they noted on Westeros is that the Umber currently inside Winterfell actually attended the Citadel for a while, but didn't left with a chain. There is no way that he cannot read and write. So why does he sign with drawing a giant? Is he a "false" Umber (a distant relative or loyal servant from somewhere to protect the real one), or is he signing with a false signature to protect his vows? In other words, another northern lord/house loyal to the Starks, that plays along with the Boltons and Freys until it's time for revenge.
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Jul 19, 2011 09:35
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The Trueborn Lord of Winterfell is just Ramsay loving with Jon by showing how he has everything Jon wanted were it not for his vows.
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Jul 19, 2011 09:43
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So I'm guessing Melisandre knows Jon is Azor Ahai? I mean, the number of times she's gone "I'm looking for Azor Ahai but all i see is SNOW", she must have figured it out by now.
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Jul 19, 2011 10:32
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Just finished reading it today. After the discussion on Varys' whereabouts in the last thread, I was pretty  when it turned out he stayed put in King's Landing, just like I predicted. Really surprised he acted so directly, though, and against the type of person he seems to admire.So, what do you guys think is going to happen to Bran when Bloodraven or someone else finds out he's been warging into Hodor? Varamyr's mentors told him that warging into another human would make him an abomination, and it's clear that Hodor doesn't like it when it happens. I also completely didn't pick up that Manderly had turned his Freys into meat pies, although it did seem obvious that he had something to do with their disappearances. Manderly completely kicked rear end in this book. Is it obvious where he sent Davos and I missed it or is it still unclear?
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Jul 19, 2011 10:49
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Boy Wunder posted:Just finished reading it today. After the discussion on Varys' whereabouts in the last thread, I was pretty No idea what happens to Bran. The fact that he is cripple, and Hodor is a simpleton might redeem him a bit. Davos is probably sent to Skagos, the cannibal island off the east coast of Westeros, roughly at the same latitude as the Wall. Here is a list with lost of small things that might not have been immediately obvious to you. http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/53780-adwd-spoilers-all-of-the-little-things/
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Jul 19, 2011 10:57
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Groke posted:Much and more. Much and more. He was not wrong.
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Jul 19, 2011 11:36
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