Horrible Mechanical Failures: Looks Like the Tin Man's Undies After Taco Tuesday

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Automotive Insanity > Horrible Mechanical Failures: Looks Like the Tin Man's Undies After Taco Tuesday

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Skyssx: Feb 2, 2001; by T. Fine

I've gotten oil samples from my truck from purchase all the way to 30k miles. Blackstone continually says viscosity, fuel content, additive package and lubricity are all well within spec at manufacturer recommended 5k change intervals.

# ? Jul 20, 2011 19:35

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# ? Apr 20, 2024 03:53

Motronic: Nov 6, 2009

Lowclock posted:

Not really. Oil isn't just a there-or-not thing. It breaks down and turns to poo poo even if it doesn't leak out or get burned no matter how well you filter it.

I've heard that the base stock really doesn't break down at all. It's mainly that you've used up all the additives at some point (assuming you're filtering it better than with a standard oil filter).

# ? Jul 20, 2011 20:26

cakesmith handyman: Jul 22, 2007; Pip-Pip old chap! Last one in is a rotten egg what what.

Nope, oil really does break down - look up Oil shear sometime - you can literally 'smash'/'chop' the long molecules into shorter useless poo poo.

# ? Jul 20, 2011 21:18

Motronic: Nov 6, 2009

Cakefool posted:

Nope, oil really does break down - look up Oil shear sometime - you can literally 'smash'/'chop' the long molecules into shorter useless poo poo.

I did a quick search, but I probably don't know what to look for terminology wise: how do they recycle it then? Do they have to distill it again to get the molecule chains that are too small out or some other petrochemical wizardry?

# ? Jul 20, 2011 21:31

Lowclock: Oct 26, 2005

Motronic posted:

I did a quick search, but I probably don't know what to look for terminology wise: how do they recycle it then? Do they have to distill it again to get the molecule chains that are too small out or some other petrochemical wizardry?

I'm not sure, but I would think it would end up as fuel or plastics or something instead of trying to make it into fresh motor oil again.

E: Automotive Insanity: What the gently caress, oil?

Lowclock fucked around with this message at 21:59 on Jul 20, 2011

# ? Jul 20, 2011 21:36

trouser chili: Mar 27, 2002; Unnngggggghhhhh

Cakefool posted:

Nope, oil really does break down - look up Oil shear sometime - you can literally 'smash'/'chop' the long molecules into shorter useless poo poo.

I'm willing to be wrong, but I thought sheer was really only a problem with multi-viscosity oils. Basically, they get thinner (numerically lower) due to sheer. Straight-weight oils don't do this, and that is why as I understand it, that motorcycles with shared-sump gearboxes and International trucks with the SV-family engines (gear timing) recommend straight-weight oils.

# ? Jul 20, 2011 21:57

Crustashio: Jul 27, 2000; ruh roh

Shaocaholica posted:

I wonder how long you can go without an oil change with an otherwise well maintained car running on synthetic under light driving?

I ran 80000km without an oil change in my 98 civic. Only reason it died was the timing belt snapped. Ran perfectly until then.

Of course I think that little 1.6 would run with sand as a lubricant.

# ? Jul 20, 2011 22:15

Shaocaholica: Oct 29, 2002; Fig. 5E

Crustashio posted:

I ran 80000km without an oil change in my 98 civic. Only reason it died was the timing belt snapped. Ran perfectly until then.

Of course I think that little 1.6 would run with sand as a lubricant.

Thats loving amazing. Were you even the owner for the previous oil change? Did you ever look at the dipstick during that 80k run?

# ? Jul 20, 2011 22:33

KozmoNaut: Apr 23, 2008; Happiness is a warm
Turbo Plasma Rifle

trouser chili posted:

motorcycles with shared-sump gearboxes and International trucks with the SV-family engines (gear timing) recommend straight-weight oils.

I don't think any motorcycles since the 1950s have called for straight-weight oil, shared-sump gearbox or not.

# ? Jul 20, 2011 22:46

AlternateAccount: Apr 25, 2005; FYGM

Crustashio posted:

I ran 80000km without an oil change in my 98 civic. Only reason it died was the timing belt snapped. Ran perfectly until then.

Of course I think that little 1.6 would run with sand as a lubricant.

Yeah, a guy I knew drained all the oil out of one, then drove it about a hundred hard miles, then did donuts and burnouts for a while until it FINALLY seized up and died. They are as close as you can get to "Oil Optional" engines.

# ? Jul 20, 2011 23:04

GnarlyCharlie4u: Sep 23, 2007; I have an unhealthy obsession with motorcycles.

Proof

KozmoNaut posted:

I don't think any motorcycles since the 1950s have called for straight-weight oil, shared-sump gearbox or not.

This. Shared sump do call for Motorcycle specific oils though. Generally they have a higher zinc content and no friction modifiers, etc...

Lawnmowers on the other hand... (here we go again)

edit: holy massive picture batman!

GnarlyCharlie4u fucked around with this message at 23:15 on Jul 20, 2011

# ? Jul 20, 2011 23:06

Powershift: Nov 23, 2009

I didn't know ferrari made lawn tractors!

# ? Jul 20, 2011 23:29

Shroomie: Jul 31, 2008

Speaking of oil and failures, I caught my dad pouring non-detergent SAE 30 into his 5.4L F150 the other day :bang:

# ? Jul 21, 2011 00:58

revmoo: May 25, 2006; #basta

Shroomie posted:

Speaking of oil and failures, I caught my dad pouring non-detergent SAE 30 into his 5.4L F150 the other day

Wtf. You need to stage an intervention.

# ? Jul 21, 2011 01:14

Sadi: Jan 18, 2005; SC - Where there are more rednecks than people

GnarlyCharlie4u posted:

This. Shared sump do call for Motorcycle specific oils though. Generally they have a higher zinc content and no friction modifiers, etc...

Lawnmowers on the other hand... (here we go again)

edit: holy massive picture batman!

A husqvarna?
Ive been working for a lawn mower manufacturer reticently and have seen a few interesting failures. The biggest surprise to me is the cheap Briggs engines. They have plastic camshafts and plastic drive gears for the cam, also plastic starter motor gears. Yet they seam to out last the mowers them selves (we do change oil at recommended times on our stress tests [except some that are run 3x the recommended interval]). One thing I should add though is we dont put Briggs engines on our nicer pro mowers that we stress test for long amounts of time.

# ? Jul 21, 2011 01:31

Crustashio: Jul 27, 2000; ruh roh

Shaocaholica posted:

Thats loving amazing. Were you even the owner for the previous oil change? Did you ever look at the dipstick during that 80k run?

I might have checked it once or twice. I did top up the oil, but I never had it changed. Usually I knew to top it up when the oil pressure warning light started to flash on idle. It got all variety of oil, including some lawnmower oil I found in my mom's garage.

I only did it because the body was already eaten away by the typical honda rust of that era.

# ? Jul 21, 2011 01:48

Motronic: Nov 6, 2009

Crustashio posted:

I ran 80000km without an oil change in my 98 civic. Only reason it died was the timing belt snapped. Ran perfectly until then.

Of course I think that little 1.6 would run with sand as a lubricant.

That doesn't surprise me. A friend's fiancee (at the time) asked me (shortly after they got married) if they should buy out the 65k mile Acura she had on lease. It had 65k miles and all the records. ALL the records, no questions. The oil had been changed once at 15k miles.

Sadly, the wife didn't last as long as the car did.

# ? Jul 21, 2011 04:05

FlapYoJacks: Feb 12, 2009

So I pulled the head off of the Daewoo Nubira that my brother snapped the timing belt on finally (same engine as the Izuzu Rodeo, X22SE).

I flipped the head over and thought to myself "Self, where is that exhaust valve?" And then my eyes got big and I though well gently caress, time for a new piston!

But to my surprise, the valve head was just laying in the cylinder chamber, like this:

and I knew it had been ran like that, because it had carbon on the end, like this:

And one of the other valves was S shaped and snapped as soon as I touched it. They all look like this:

I don't know how the gently caress the engine survived. :shepface:

# ? Jul 21, 2011 04:08

Mr.Peabody: Jul 15, 2009

Motronic posted:

I did a quick search, but I probably don't know what to look for terminology wise: how do they recycle it then? Do they have to distill it again to get the molecule chains that are too small out or some other petrochemical wizardry?

You're on the right track. Basically with modern oil the problem of reaching it's shelf life is more likely because it is no longer capable of capturing coke. Basically, like sugar in water there's a saturation point of oil where it can no longer absorb the coke and fine ash and that's when it needs recycling. Also, the acidity of the oil slowly increases as the carbon ash converts to carbonic acid. So the recycling process involves separating the absorbed carbon from the oil.

# ? Jul 21, 2011 04:25

Sponge!: Dec 22, 2004; SPORK!

trouser chili posted:

He did eventually get it to behave.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T_0poJpCD18

Note that in the first video posted when it goes runaway and the first three minutes of this one, it's running BACKWARDS. Looking at the flywheel, it's spinning counterclockwise, it should spin clockwise.

Keeping along with the hot-bulb engine theme, I found this in the youtube thread. Not a horrible mechanical failure, but its totally AI and :black101:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mCSMOXcTMYQ

# ? Jul 21, 2011 05:30

Rev. Dr. Moses P. Lester: Oct 3, 2000

KozmoNaut posted:

I don't think any motorcycles since the 1950s have called for straight-weight oil, shared-sump gearbox or not.

And my understanding on why they use straight weight oils is that they lack rubber seals on their valve guides, so multiweight (lighter when cold) oil would leak past the guides.

# ? Jul 21, 2011 14:12

KozmoNaut: Apr 23, 2008; Happiness is a warm
Turbo Plasma Rifle

Rev. Dr. Moses P. Lester posted:

And my understanding on why they use straight weight oils is that they lack rubber seals on their valve guides, so multiweight (lighter when cold) oil would leak past the guides.

Even a hypothetical 0w60 oil is much lighter at operating temperature than it is when cold, so there would be no significant leakage unless the tolerances are gigantic.

# ? Jul 21, 2011 15:32

pad thai hi-five: Aug 11, 2003; Oven Wrangler

Sponge! posted:

Keeping along with the hot-bulb engine theme, I found this in the youtube thread. Not a horrible mechanical failure, but its totally AI and

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mCSMOXcTMYQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i7JQ7Kc--qM&feature=related

This is part 2, I love how the boy is just fine with doing this right next to a fighter jet. That should be an awesome backyard to have friends over.

# ? Jul 21, 2011 15:32

FatCow: Apr 22, 2002; I MAP THE FUCK OUT OF PEOPLE

Keep in mind that to make 130HP at 250RPM it needs to generate 2,700 ft*lbs of torque.

# ? Jul 21, 2011 16:28

Sponge!: Dec 22, 2004; SPORK!

FatCow posted:

Keep in mind that to make 130HP at 250RPM it needs to generate 2,700 ft*lbs of torque.

Not hard to do with 150,000 cc of displacement. I still get :dong:

for big fuckoff dystopian smoke-belching and exposed workings though, so you're not alone.

(Yes, that's less than 1hp/litre, but they're surprisingly fuel efficient for the simplicity.)

# ? Jul 21, 2011 16:52

Nuevo: May 23, 2006; Fun Shoe

Intoxication posted:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i7JQ7Kc--qM&feature=related

This is part 2, I love how the boy is just fine with doing this right next to a fighter jet. That should be an awesome backyard to have friends over.

Not to mention what appears to be the hub assembly from a helicopter attached to a giant box. :psyduck:

# ? Jul 21, 2011 19:48

Throatwarbler: Nov 17, 2008; by vyelkin

Ford has responded to the broken Raptor issue.

quote:

Over the last several weeks, there have been a number of reports on web forums of frame damage incidents involving the Ford F-150 SVT Raptor. Thanks to a number of reader tips, Autoblog was the first news outlet to inquire with Ford about the matter. After launching its own investigation into the claims centering around one particular organized Raptor Run in Nevada with 14 participating vehicles and 10 bent frames, Jamal Hameedi, a 20-year Ford veteran and SVT's Chief Nameplate Engineer, agreed to talk exclusively with Autoblog.

Jamal HameediAB: When did you first become aware of these Raptor frame claims?

Hameedi: We monitor all the blogs � I think there are three or four different versions of Raptor online forums. We saw that there was one particular run where several Raptors bent their frames on the same obstacle.

AB: How many Raptors have been reported with frame damage?

Hameedi: We have four nationwide since the beginning of production.

AB: It sounded like there were more than four vehicles damaged in this individual run alone � are these not included in that total?

Hameedi: I think we've been reading that there are ten trucks in question [in that run].

"We have a pretty firm understanding of what's going on."
Jamal Hameedi, SVT Chief Nameplate Engineer
AB: So the four trucks you mentioned � those are just the ones that have been directly reported to Ford dealers?

Hameedi: Yes.

AB: Have they all been bent in more-or-less in the same way?

Hameedi: The ones on the run, I think there are varying degrees of how [badly] they are tweaked, but generally we have a pretty firm understanding of what's going on.

AB: Can you expound on that?

Hameedi: Basically, the core � the root cause � is that the vehicle is traveling too fast for the obstacle, and the truck is running out of travel. By a large margin. They're going too fast for the obstacle by a large margin. The frame is not the first item to yield in that condition � despite what's been theorized, the first thing when you do exceed the vehicle's travel capability [is that] you have a certain safety zone where you will hit the bump stop and nothing will happen. If you hit that same obstacle at an even faster speed, then you will yield the jounce bumper cup � that's the little piece of steel that holds the jounce bumper. If you hit that same obstacle at an even greater speed, then the next thing to go is the frame.

"If you had an infinitely stiff frame... it would 'donkey kick' the rear of that truck really high into the air."
That energy has to be absorbed somehow, and we actually went through a fairly detailed FMEA [Failure Mode and Effects Analysis], so if you do happen to far exceed the suspension's capability, the safest thing for that vehicle is the for the frame to yield. If you had an infinitely stiff frame, then what that would do is, the rear of that vehicle � the suspension � when that axle is going up so hard, so fast, it would 'donkey kick' the rear of that truck really high into the air. That's a very undesirable condition."

AB: Is SVT looking at making any suspension or frame changes � adjusting the cups or introducing progressive rate bump stops or deformable mounts, say � or are you happy with the way the truck performs?

Hameedi: If you look at the video [above], in our opinion, the truck performed flawlessly through there � it didn't do anything crazy from a vehicle dynamics standpoint. It didn't put the truck into an unsafe condition and it didn't strand the driver. If you hear their voices [on the video], you can hear them go 'Argh!!' when they went over that. That's not a good thing for any vehicle when you hit that hard, that fast. The other thing is that we run microcellular jounce bumpers that are progressive rate � this is why we run that kind of jounce bumper.

AB: In your opinion, it doesn't sound like any changes are necessary � this is just a clear-cut case of vehicle abuse?

"There's a learning curve with these new enthusiasts and the organizers � of how to properly run an off-road, high-speed event like this."
Hameedi: I don't know if I'd call it vehicle abuse � I think there's a certain learning curve going out there. The cool thing about the Raptor is that it's something new that has never been done before. So it's bringing a lot of new enthusiasts into this realm of high-speed off-roading. There's a learning curve with these new enthusiasts and the organizers � of how to properly run an off-road, high-speed event like this. This is part of that learning curve. One of the things that we state in our owner's manual is that you need to do a low-speed reconnaissance run � you can't just find an off-road trail and barrel down it at 100 miles an hour.

AB: Do you have any idea how fast they were traveling?

Hameedi: This is just our guess, we don't know for sure, but judging by the video, they look like they were going 60 to 80 miles per hour. We've heard sound bites from other people on that run that they were going 110-125 mph in certain parts. From the factory, the truck is speed-limited to 100 miles per hour, so all of these guys would need to be removing the speed limiters on their trucks [in order to achieve those kind of speeds].

The other thing that's going on... we've had some reports that there's an aftermarket company offering aftermarket springs, and instead of the two or three-leaf of the production truck, they offer a multiple stack leaf, and what that does is, it actually deletes the jounce bumper landing pad, which is kind of critical.

AB: So were any of those vehicles on the run equipped with that setup?

Hameedi: Yes. We don't know how many � if it's all of them or if it's a fraction of them � but we know some of them were running those multiple leaf springs with the jounce bumper landing pad deleted. Obviously, the suspension was designed to work with all of its parts intact.

AB: So how has the process been � we understand that at least a couple of trucks with frame damage have been reported to dealers with the hope of filing a warranty claim. Our understanding is that none of these warranty claims have been granted thus far, but that maybe some more communication needs to be done with the dealers about how to communicate with these special types of vehicles and special types of buyers. Can you talk about that?

"Number one, you have to do a reconnaissance run - a prerun."
Hameedi: Yes, some of the marketing is working on that, but really, our owner's manual is really good at outlining all the precautions and safety steps you need to take for safe, high-speed off-roading.

The three key points in high-speed off-roading that we mention in the owner's manual are... number one, you have to do a reconnaissance run � a prerun. Every desert racer, they'll go and prerun a trail and they will mark all of the ditches and obstacles on their GPS, so that when they're coming upon an obstacle like that, they will know to slow down. Also, a race organizer would probably mark that ditch with a big red X or something like that, so that people know what they're driving. You can get yourself into trouble very easily if you don't know what you're doing or if you're driving above your ability or those of the vehicle. It's not very different than a very capable, very fast sports car on a road course.

AB: You previously mentioned an aftermarket 'solution' that's hit the market � have you had a chance to play around with it?

Hameedi: We have not. We know those multiple leaf spring stacks are out there, but we have not played with them ourselves.

The other thing we say is, 'build speed slowly.' When we go and put media in a high-speed off-road course, or when we do our own off-road durability, we will run a course several times and build speed slowly � usually in increments of 10 mph � so that if we do get to a speed where we max-out the vehicle's capabilities, it's not way, way beyond the vehicle's capabilities.

The last thing we say is, 'Drive what you can see.' Only go fast enough so that if you see an obstacle that wasn't marked or it's new, so that you have time to slow down for it.

AB: This is probably more of a marketing question. You've got videos and ads that show this vehicle bombing through the deserts at very high rates of speed, and obviously you've pre-run under those conditions...

"You can break anything � you can even break a trophy truck."
Hameedi: I know we've done videos on the Raptors with people like Rob Maccachren, and we've explicitly said that it's a vehicle that's highly capable, but you can break anything � you can even break a trophy truck � so you have to be responsible and sensible about the way what you're doing to the vehicle and the way you're driving it.

AB: Is there an easy way for owners to inspect their Raptor frame for damage?

Hameedi: It's very easy to inspect the jounce bumper cup � that's really easy to look at and see if it's yielded in any way, shape or form. The easiest way to tell if you've gone far beyond the capability of the vehicle's suspension is if there's the V-margin on the cab to bed.

AB: Do you have any idea what the cost of fixing or replacing a frame is?

Hameedi: Well, most people, you can straighten the frame � that's what off-roaders typically do. It depends on the shop, but I've seen numbers anywhere from $500 bucks to $800 bucks.

AB: Is there anything that you guys have learned from this experience about dealing with this sort of product and buyer that you (SVT and Ford) can apply going forward?

Hameedi: Well, I think one of the things that we're starting to really look at is starting to step up our communications with the organizers of these trail runs and how to conduct them safely and responsibly � things we would do internally at Ford or with the media. Maybe teach or communicate with some of these new organizers on how to conduct these events safely so the vehicles don't get damaged or people don't get damaged.

AB: Driver education is a big deal � and to that end, it seems like there's a real opportunity here for SVT to do some sort of school with this vehicle. You recently announced the driving academy with some of the extreme sports stars like Tanner Foust and Ken Block. It seems like a Raptor Camp would help get the message out � is that something you're considering?

Hameedi: I think really more what we want to do first and foremost is... for example, there's a Raptor Roundup in Albuquerque and we're sending our sales and marketing group and we're also sending an engineer as well. What they're doing is really emphasizing how to safely off-road � even if you want to go high speed, how to recognize obstacles, how to pre-run, stay in communication.

That's the other thing that was kind of surprising about this run � after one guy went over it [the obstacle], versus calling back and saying 'There's a mambo ditch there, slow down at Mile Marker Whatever.'

AB: Is there anything else you would like to discuss?

"Our impression of what happened is that the vehicle performed very well."
Hameedi: We were anxious to have our side of the story told because our impression of what happened is that the vehicle performed very well in that kind of extreme maneuver.

They didn't lose control � the vehicle was very stable. Some other things that could have broken � like shock mounts or spring perches or axles � those have grave, grave consequences when they fail at 80 mph off-road. [They can] potentially cause a lot of damage to the vehicle. These guys could still drive their vehicles � they weren't stranded with a busted suspension out in the middle of the desert. As you can imagine, if your suspension breaks out in the desert, it is not a trivial matter to get that vehicle extracted.

AB: Thank you very much for choosing to speak with us.

Hameedi: Thanks a lot.

On the flip side of the coin, at least one forum member, Outlaw Raptor, one of the event's organizers, sees things differently:

"The bent frame issue is happening all across the US, not just on the Raptors on the run. All 10 trucks did not bend their frames on the run but there were a few that did. I know my 2 Raptors had bent frames before the run. Four of the Raptors already had bent frames and 3 had no problems at all."

Outlaw Raptor also argues that the course for this event was both prerun and well-organized. He notes that he has personally driven the course for years and says that emails were sent to participants recommending that they download the course on GPS with all of the obstacles marked. It is not clear how many participants took this step, nor is it known if the cattle crossing that is being blamed for bending frames was included in this data. He also says that CB radios were provided (noting that "reception was horrible") and cites the presence of support vehicles and paid mechanics � this was a organized event in which Raptor owners paid money to participate.

(In the interest of full disclosure, Outlaw Raptor freely admits that he runs a business that goes by the same name that builds performance parts specifically for this SVT vehicle, and his team is presently among those developing an aftermarket solution to avoid the sort of frame damage that's being reported.)

Clearly, there remains a lot of debate about who or what is culpable for the Raptor frame issue. Even within the pages of RaptorForumz.com itself, ground zero for this discussion, there are members who participated in the event blaming SVT for a product weakness, while others are blaming themselves (or each other) for the manner in which they drove. And while there's still a cloud of uncertainty surrounding the issue, SVT's position now seems to be clear � Hameedi and his team believe their truck performed admirably well under the circumstances.

# ? Jul 21, 2011 19:57

JD Brickmeister: Sep 4, 2008; by Y Kant Ozma Post

Intoxication posted:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i7JQ7Kc--qM&feature=related

This is part 2, I love how the boy is just fine with doing this right next to a fighter jet. That should be an awesome backyard to have friends over.

If that boy survives to adulthood, he will become a likely contender for . . . the most interesting man alive. . . (or whatever the hook is for that beer commercial)

# ? Jul 21, 2011 19:59

Motronic: Nov 6, 2009

Throatwarbler posted:

Ford has responded to the broken Raptor issue.

Ford: "You abused the vehicle because you are an off-road newb. Tough luck."

I particularly like the straw man argument about if the frame was stiffer it would donkey kick and cause handling issues, and how at least the spring purchases didn't fail, as well as the implication that this area was designed to fail this way in order to save you from killing yourself or having to walk home.

Once again, for shame Ford. You treat your SVO/SVT customers like poo poo time and time again.

# ? Jul 21, 2011 20:10

EightBit: Jan 7, 2006; I spent money on this line of text just to make the "Stupid Newbie" go away.

Motronic posted:

Ford: "You abused the vehicle because you are an off-road newb. Tough luck."

I particularly like the straw man argument about if the frame was stiffer it would donkey kick and cause handling issues, and how at least the spring purchases didn't fail, as well as the implication that this area was designed to fail this way in order to save you from killing yourself or having to walk home.

Once again, for shame Ford. You treat your SVO/SVT customers like poo poo time and time again.

So how many factory vehicles could you drive down that trail at that speed and not rip the axles right off? There was a quote of $500-800 for a repair to that, which isn't really that much. I'd have to spend far more than that fixing (or replacing) just about anything else I drove at 80+ mph over that obstacle.

# ? Jul 21, 2011 20:46

Powershift: Nov 23, 2009

Motronic posted:

Ford: "You abused the vehicle because you are an off-road newb. Tough luck."

I particularly like the straw man argument about if the frame was stiffer it would donkey kick and cause handling issues, and how at least the spring purchases didn't fail, as well as the implication that this area was designed to fail this way in order to save you from killing yourself or having to walk home.

Once again, for shame Ford. You treat your SVO/SVT customers like poo poo time and time again.

Did you watch the video in the article?

http://youtu.be/6eK-1Ld7sJY

The "frame bending kicker" is at about 1:30 with a cattle gaurd slightly before that. You can hear how hard they hit, and see how the back end bucked up.

# ? Jul 21, 2011 20:46

Motronic: Nov 6, 2009

Powershift posted:

Did you watch the video in the article?

http://youtu.be/6eK-1Ld7sJY

The "frame bending kicker" is at about 1:30 with a cattle gaurd slightly before that. You can hear how hard they hit, and see how the back end bucked up.

I did. I have also been underneath a Raptor and have seen with my own eyes where these frames are bending, and it's quite obvious it is a structurally poo poo area. It is literally the only part of the frame that is not fully boxed (even though they claim a fully boxed frame), and it's obvious why it's like that: it was a difficult spot to do that would have taken a lot more effort.

Have you been under a Raptor, or are you speaking about this solely based on Internet reports?

# ? Jul 21, 2011 20:55

MadScientistWorking: Jun 23, 2010; "I was going through a time period where I was looking up weird stories involving necrophilia..."

Farside posted:

Now it might be because I work around these drat things day in and day out but a dewar with a properly working safety venting off isn't going to fill an elevator car with enough gas to make an elevator car oxygen deficient. 5psi (max) vent at 1-2 seconds (max) from a 1/2" safety isn't going to kill you. Especially since most elevator cars aren't exactly air tight or with out their own ventilation systems.

To answer your questions almost every single Liquid Nitrogen tank I've seen has a 22psi and a 230 psi safety with the 230 psi safety displacing enough air to kill you in an elevator. The 230 psi safety is if you are running the tank as an air source will the 22 psi safety is only for liquid nitrogen.

MadScientistWorking fucked around with this message at 21:05 on Jul 21, 2011

# ? Jul 21, 2011 21:03

Lowclock: Oct 26, 2005

If you hit something going fast and hard enough that it bucks the back end of a 6000lb truck a few feet in the air and expect nothing to break on a stock or close truck then you're just an idiot. I've seen owners of those things say "Oh but the guy on the commercial was doing it!". I think I've also seen a loving Buick drive on the moon in a commercial, but I don't think anyone ever tried to return one when it couldn't.

# ? Jul 21, 2011 21:07

Powershift: Nov 23, 2009

Motronic posted:

I did. I have also been underneath a Raptor and have seen with my own eyes where these frames are bending, and it's quite obvious it is a structurally poo poo area. It is literally the only part of the frame that is not fully boxed (even though they claim a fully boxed frame), and it's obvious why it's like that: it was a difficult spot to do that would have taken a lot more effort.

Have you been under a Raptor, or are you speaking about this solely based on Internet reports?

Never been under one but i've driven one fairly hard without bending it, but does anything you said there have anything to do with what i said.

You're suggesting ford placing blame on the owners is a cop out. I posted a video of one of the owners in question doing multiple things wrong, and doing something to the truck that almost no vehicle could handle. You go on about the frame.

Something would have broken with that hit. If they strengthened the frame, the shock mounts would have snapped off and you'd be bitching about that.

# ? Jul 21, 2011 21:13

anonumos: Jul 14, 2005; Fuck it.

"You did things we pretended in our advertisements that you could do. Tough titty."

To be fair, I would say that is a large amount of abuse for a factory truck.

# ? Jul 21, 2011 21:30

Throatwarbler: Nov 17, 2008; by vyelkin

anonumos posted:

"You did things we pretended in our advertisements that you could do. Tough titty."

To be fair, I would say that is a large amount of abuse for a factory truck.

Do the advertisements show factory stock trucks hitting 18" speedbumps at 60mph over and over all day for hundreds of miles until the shocks have overheated? Because that's what the guy was doing. I think you're going to have a tough time convincing anyone that you were misled by the advertising.

Also, with respect to the frame vs shocks tearing off, I think what he's saying is that the shocks tearing off would be better, since that would be more reasonably expected than the frame bending.

Ford is also saying that at least some of the trucks had improperly modified springs too.

# ? Jul 21, 2011 21:37

Motronic: Nov 6, 2009

Throatwarbler posted:

Also, with respect to the frame vs shocks tearing off, I think what he's saying is that the shocks tearing off would be better, since that would be more reasonably expected than the frame bending.

Ford is also saying that at least some of the trucks had improperly modified springs too.

That is exactly what I'm saying. Especially since I personally have seen the strength deficiency in that portion of the frame. It makes me suspect that the truck (all of the rest of it) could take a whole lot more than what these did because it's such a glaringly obvious issue.

The trucks that had modified suspension are rightfully SOL. No one could expect Ford to cover that anymore, even if it is a known issue with the stock suspension. If you void your warranty, it's your own problem and you should know that on your way in.

# ? Jul 21, 2011 21:43

SwashedBuckles: Aug 10, 2007; Have at you!

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't the frame bending actually be preferential to blowing a shock? Not only for the rationale that you can still drive with it but the cost of replacing one or more of those racing shocks is probably more than the $500 quoted to straighten the frame.

# ? Jul 21, 2011 21:46

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# ? Apr 20, 2024 03:53

Motronic: Nov 6, 2009

SwashedBuckles posted:

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't the frame bending actually be preferential to blowing a shock? Not only for the rationale that you can still drive with it but the cost of replacing one or more of those racing shocks is probably more than the $500 quoted to straighten the frame.

My point is that I believe there is a significant amount of force between the frame bending and anything else breaking. The frame really is ridiculously weak in the problem aream and if it weren't you could do a lot more before you ran into problems.

I'll just leave it at that. If you don't think you can spot the factory-created structural problem in this photo, nothing else could possibly convince you. They are literally placing the highest compressive force that can be generate on the truck on the weakest (only non-fully boxed) portion of the frame. It makes no sense at all to me.

Motronic fucked around with this message at 21:53 on Jul 21, 2011

# ? Jul 21, 2011 21:50

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Automotive Insanity > Horrible Mechanical Failures: Looks Like the Tin Man's Undies After Taco Tuesday

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