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Thoguh posted:Jape is a real word. So are leal, serjeant, winds and nipples. We're not arguing that these words are made up, just that they suddenly became popular in the books, most likely because GRRM got them stuck in his head. Although jape I think has been around since the first book.
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Jul 21, 2011 02:01
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Unoriginal Name posted:Also Dany didn't just luck into her situation. She made some very intelligent choices and was an excellent tactician until she stopped to rule Mereen. Whereupon she put on a tokar and sat on a pyramid and whined about the bad things that were happening. I believe that this is some attempt to show the instability of the Targayeans in her, but it shouldn't make her retarded. Wild maybe, but not boring. It's a lesson for her on how ruling differs from conquering. Some people might think that it's smart to try and learn how to rule if you have intentions to conquer an entire kingdom, especially when your predecessors include Mad Aerys, Robert 'whoring, drinking and hunting' Baratheon and Joffrey. It's not exactly the first time this theme has come up in the series (it's basically the entire reason no-one wants Stannis, not to mention a large part of the downfall of Robert and the Targaryens), Dany by at least trying to give a gently caress has an edge over basically every other contender for the Iron Throne. hampig fucked around with this message at 02:05 on Jul 21, 2011 |
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Jul 21, 2011 02:02
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Again, for those that are arguing that Dany is hamstrung by her sense of morality and justice and stuff, don't forget about stuff like this:Dany 2nd posted:Mercy, thought Dany. They will have the dragon’s mercy. “Skahaz, I have changed my mind. Question the man sharply.” Who else in the series have we seen do something so completely brutal with very little chance for benefit like that? Cersei. The Boltons. Umm. Maybe Crows Eye. Pretty much nobody else would have jumped straight to torturing the daughters, skipping questioning them "sweetly" or torturing the father first. Nope! Straight to the most brutal option available! Cersei, Ramsay Snow, Roose Bolton, Danaerys Targaryen.
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Jul 21, 2011 02:08
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Phylodox posted:I think Daenerys started doubting herself when Drogon ate that little girl. She blamed herself, and ended up crippled with guild and indecision. I have to say, that was a great end to the chapter. All these tedious petitions/Mereen politics, and then BAM! Dragon-roasted child out of nowhere. I thought it was going to be a great start to the Dany chapters...and then she locks two of the three dragons away and we don't see them again (beyond the one visit to the pit) for hundreds of pages. I thought that was going to be the start of her training the dragons more, not locking them away. The dragons are the only reason you have any power at all, Dany! If you don't train them and can't use them, you are basically hosed.
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Jul 21, 2011 02:14
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I would say that the archaic spellings and different spellings aren't even annoying at all. What IS annoying is that suddenly everyone lives by the phrase, "Words are wind." I could see this being applicable to Quentyn's arc, and makes sense there considering what happens to him in Dany's court, but... how did everyone in the world begin to believe this?
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Jul 21, 2011 02:22
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Caufman posted:The sudden and widespread use of leal, serjeant, 'words are wind' and 'nipples on a breastplate' make me think that there's some kind of language morphic field or GRRM is a writer with flaws, and one flaw is finding a new word or phrase and overusing it. At least no one is saying, "Nothing holds an edge like Valyrian steel" anymore. I think nipples on a breastplate is used twice, it just seems jarring because the usage is 2-3 chapters apart.
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Jul 21, 2011 02:30
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The one I was wondering about was "shavepate" Seems to be a real word, but before this book, had been used like 10 times in all history.
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Jul 21, 2011 02:36
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hampig posted:It's a lesson for her on how ruling differs from conquering. Some people might think that it's smart to try and learn how to rule if you have intentions to conquer an entire kingdom, especially when your predecessors include Mad Aerys, Robert 'whoring, drinking and hunting' Baratheon and Joffrey. It's not exactly the first time this theme has come up in the series (it's basically the entire reason no-one wants Stannis, not to mention a large part of the downfall of Robert and the Targaryens), Dany by at least trying to give a gently caress has an edge over basically every other contender for the Iron Throne. The problem is that GRRM has shown that ruling with justice is a possiblity. Ned Stark made excellent decisions in just a single day on the throne as Hand. Also the fact that Dany completely disregards clear improvements in Mereenese society because she's busy thinking about some sellword. She disregards the armies and sickness and the taming of her dragons and everything else she needs to worry about. She gives a gently caress about the slaves pain without thinking about how to stop it.
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Jul 21, 2011 02:40
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quote:Ned Stark made excellent decisions in just a single day on the throne as Hand. Lol what? Ned massively hosed himself over and laid the seeds of his house's demise on his day as hand. He guaranteed war with the Lannisters while passing up a chance to secure an alliance with the Tyrells by sending Loras after the Mountain, as Loras is a hothead bent on making and legend for himself and dumbass Mace would certainly back his son up.
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Jul 21, 2011 03:22
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literallyincredible posted:while passing up a chance to secure an alliance with the Tyrells by sending Loras after the Mountain, as Loras is a hothead bent on making and legend for himself and dumbass Mace would certainly back his son up. Not quite man, you're going overboard on this one. Ned could still have made an alliance with Highgarden after he turned down Loras, quite easily. All he had to do was take Renly up on his offer after Robert died.
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Jul 21, 2011 03:26
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Sure, but there was no way he would have forseen that coming up. Sending Loras was a no-brainer political move that he passed up because at the end of the day he's "just a soldier" as show Cersei would put it.
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Jul 21, 2011 03:44
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literallyincredible posted:Lol what? Ned massively hosed himself over and laid the seeds of his house's demise on his day as hand. He guaranteed war with the Lannisters while passing up a chance to secure an alliance with the Tyrells by sending Loras after the Mountain, as Loras is a hothead bent on making and legend for himself and dumbass Mace would certainly back his son up. He didn't send Loras precisely because of the reasons you mentioned. Loras wanted glory and fame and wouldn't have helped the people. Whereas Dondarrion helped them to his death and beyond.
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Jul 21, 2011 04:23
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Ned is from the North where the only thing holding it together is a very strict sense of honour amongst the Northmen. He wouldn't know a thing about pinching his nose to make a decision. As we all know it doesn't work in the South where staying honourable to one's values is as useful as nipples on a breastplate. But as we've seen, people like Lord Manderly will always believe in the Starks even when it would be politically expedient to bend to the will of King's Landing. You've got Lord Manderly baking Freys into pie and planning a glorious backstabbing with the Umbers so they can put Rickon back on the throne. You have a whole bunch of Northern clans uniting behind Stannis not because they love him but because they want to save the Stark girl. So yes, Ned got poo poo done but the way he did it was not the politically best way of doing so. Which is far more than what Dany ever did but we must forgive her for she is a little girl and doesn't know much in the ways of not being unfit to rule.
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Jul 21, 2011 04:32
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Eej posted:Ned is from the North where the only thing holding it together is a very strict sense of honour amongst the Northmen. He wouldn't know a thing about pinching his nose to make a decision. As we all know it doesn't work in the South where staying honourable to one's values is as useful as nipples on a breastplate. This is why I loving love the North so much. In a world full of backstabbing scumbags and shitholes, the Northmen remain loyal and dedicated to their King. gently caress the Boltons though.
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Jul 21, 2011 04:39
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Macdeo Lurjtux posted:I think nipples on a breastplate is used twice, it just seems jarring because the usage is 2-3 chapters apart. Only twice? I guess it seemed like more. Another one for the list, is it just me or is there also suddenly a rush of things being made of niello? I don't think I ever saw that word before ADWD.
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Jul 21, 2011 05:17
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literally used twice in the book, and then a payoff of sorts "All the fight went out of him when he heard that his queen had wed, Tyrion realized. One whispered word had done what fists and whips and clubs could not; it had broken him. I should have let the crone have him. He’s going to be as useful as nipples on a breastplate." "Cersei paced the width of the cell. 'I need to be with Tommen. These Kingsguard knights are as useless as nipples on a breastplate.'" "The nipples on his muscled breastplate had a pair of iron rings through them."
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Jul 21, 2011 05:34
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Caufman posted:So are leal, serjeant, winds and nipples. We're not arguing that these words are made up, just that they suddenly became popular in the books, most likely because GRRM got them stuck in his head. Yeah, jape showed up on every other page. It's like Martin gets attached to one word, or he's afraid that synonyms like joke or jest or gibe might be considered too normal and jar you out of the fantasy world. There was a few times my mind read jape as jest just because it was so loving tired of reading the word jape. When the reader is unconsciously using synonyms to break monotony, the editor did a lovely job. Also, the Daario blue hair thing might seem kind of weird, but it's worth noting that indigo was one of the earliest dyes used in our own world for both clothes and hair and generally would dye hair a blue-black sheen, so it wasn't impossible for hair to be bluish in real life pre-punk era either. But I don't know if that's what Martin was thinking and going for, or if he meant like bright blue like that weird skateboarding kid with the mohawk in high school. "Nipples on a breastplate" isn't awful though. It works in the same sense that "useful as a chocolate teapus.ot" or whatever works for us, and then yeah there's the payoff.
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Jul 21, 2011 05:37
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Certain phrases get repeated in a 44,000 word book? You don't say.
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Jul 21, 2011 05:39
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Edit: ^^^ It's sort of like having "beautiful" be his sole descriptive adjective for anything that's aesthetically pleasant. It would get grating after a while because there are plenty of other choices and synonyms that could be interspersed for better effect. 'Jape' became incredibly annoying after a while.literallyincredible posted:Lol what? Ned massively hosed himself over and laid the seeds of his house's demise on his day as hand. He guaranteed war with the Lannisters while passing up a chance to secure an alliance with the Tyrells by sending Loras after the Mountain, as Loras is a hothead bent on making and legend for himself and dumbass Mace would certainly back his son up. Ned had a poor handle on the politicking of the king's court, but that takes nothing away from the fact that he made practical, logical, responsible, and correct decisions. His problem was that he didn't assume from the get-go that a number of forces would be acting against him in the background. Habibi fucked around with this message at 05:49 on Jul 21, 2011 |
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Jul 21, 2011 05:45
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Next book renamed Words of Wind
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Jul 21, 2011 05:47
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Pwnstar posted:Next book renamed Words of Wind Breeze of Bullshit.
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Jul 21, 2011 05:49
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Galbart Glover and Maege Mormont still hiding out in Greywater Watch  Hmm, since Robett Glover was obviously ransomed, does that mean that Ser Helmann Tallhart was as well?
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Jul 21, 2011 05:50
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Brannock posted:Certain phrases get repeated in a 44,000 word book? You don't say. It's an attachment to an archaic word that has plenty of synonyms and gets recycled every few pages that gets obnoxious. The word jape appears 41 times in the book (47 if we include 'japing' and 'japed'). Jest appears twice. Gibe once, and joked also appears once but not as a noun. edit: It gets worse if you look up different forms, too HeroOfTheRevolution fucked around with this message at 06:38 on Jul 21, 2011 |
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Jul 21, 2011 06:31
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HeroOfTheRevolution posted:It's an attachment to an archaic word that has plenty of synonyms and gets recycled every few pages that gets obnoxious. The word jape appears 41 times in the book. Jest appears twice. Gibe once. Joke is completely absent. I for one am disgusted at the lack of "skylarking."
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Jul 21, 2011 06:35
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I wasn't surprised when the GOT TV show changed "mummers" to actors". Fighting back against GRRM's pseudo-old english~~
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Jul 21, 2011 06:36
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hhhmmm posted:Ned made a point of always inviting different subjects to his table to listen, learn, and promote loyalty.. and not create too much of a distance. Yes, but notice he invites them to his table, he doesn't sit down on theirs. He elevates them up to be a guest of their Lord, not sitting himself down to be "one of them". I think Jon should have done the same instead of eating alone (or do it like Captain Jack Aubrey in Patrick O'Brian's series: invite the Lieutenant and a Midshipman from the last watch to breakfast most days. It makes it "reward" (good food) for your night duty), but that's too late now. Macdeo Lurjtux posted:I think nipples on a breastplate is used twice, it just seems jarring because the usage is 2-3 chapters apart. It's used four times in AFFC already too, so it's not like it just appeared with ADWD. "Words are Wind" too, by the way, used twice in ASOS, used six times in AFFC. Decius fucked around with this message at 06:42 on Jul 21, 2011 |
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Jul 21, 2011 06:38
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This whole debate is a mummer's farce
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Jul 21, 2011 07:00
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lapse posted:If it please m'lord, a king must needs bestow many and more gifts upon his leal lords and serjeants. I counted how many times GRRM used "many and more" (or "much and more" or "little and less") in each book... the results are a bit scary: aGoT: 0 times aCoK: 5 times aSoS: 10 times aFfC: 22 times aDwD: 47 loving times If you extrapolate, book 6 will be released in 2074 and will just be 1000 pages filled with "much and more".
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Jul 21, 2011 07:21
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I caved in and got an ebook. I liked it overall, but gently caress emo goony virginprince Quentyn and his stupidity, and Meereen dragged for so long I thought it would never end. I also spoiled Theon being alive to my brother, who didn't know a thing since he finished AFFC. Whoops. For the language discussion: I don't really mind his different words at all, must be because English is not my first language and they don't seem queer to me. The thing I'm the most interested in, though, did Arya warg into a cat? or was that my imagination?
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Jul 21, 2011 07:28
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Sweet As Sin posted:The thing I'm the most interested in, though, did Arya warg into a cat? or was that my imagination? She did, and I thought it was very clearly spelled out, it was how she knew that the Kindly Man was the one attacking her.
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Jul 21, 2011 07:34
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elron posted:aGoT: 0 times
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Jul 21, 2011 07:39
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They just released the cover art for the next book
Daric fucked around with this message at 07:53 on Jul 21, 2011 |
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Jul 21, 2011 07:51
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I didn't realize that I was going to spark such a lively debate with my 'sperging! Although to be fair Serjent is used 49 times in the book and that is just excessive.
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Jul 21, 2011 08:28
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To change the topic, does anyone think Manderley is in league with Stoneheart's outlaws?The Walder boy's murder was neither Theon nor the wilding girls. And the Frey's going missing during Manderley's cross-country journey? Ambushes in the woods fits Stoneheart's MO ...as the Kingslayer will find out in Book 6
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Jul 21, 2011 08:42
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Why don't the Others go around the Wall when the Milkwater freezes?
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Jul 21, 2011 08:46
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Exasperated Badger posted:To change the topic, does anyone think Manderley is in league with Stoneheart's outlaws?The Walder boy's murder was neither Theon nor the wilding girls. And the Frey's going missing during Manderley's cross-country journey? Ambushes in the woods fits Stoneheart's MO ...as the Kingslayer will find out in Book 6 It's pretty clear that Manderly had them murderd. And then served as pie. Two of the Freys were assholes to him and responsible for the Red Wedding/killing his son. Little Walder was betrothed to his granddaughter. No Lady Stoneheart necessary.
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Jul 21, 2011 09:05
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WHERE IS MAESTER LUWIN
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Jul 21, 2011 09:08
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Iggles posted:Why don't the Others go around the Wall when the Milkwater freezes? Doctor's orders, they had to cut down on their salt intake. Which also makes me realize that The Others creep me out more now that we know they can zombify animals too. The "dead things in the water" at Hardhome make me think of undead sea lions, seals, and narwals attacking the ships. Macdeo Lurjtux fucked around with this message at 10:40 on Jul 21, 2011 |
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Jul 21, 2011 10:38
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Iggles posted:Why don't the Others go around the Wall when the Milkwater freezes? For real. The wall is really freaking stupid at that climate.
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Jul 21, 2011 12:29
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Iggles posted:Why don't the Others go around the Wall when the Milkwater freezes? Honor and tradition. The White Walkers are honorable demons, they do things the way they always had. Their forebears tried to cross the wall in a certain way, and so shall they. There are doctrines to follow in the long winter, many and more.
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Jul 21, 2011 12:50
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