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Henrik Zetterberg posted:Yeah, we've had a couple 3rd Man In suspensions in our league even though they were just trying to break up a fight. It's pretty bullshit when your teammate is getting wailed on and you can't do anything about it. We've been told that it's the refs jobs to break it up. See this is funny to me, because, in one of the leagues I reffed in, if two guys decided to actually go, we literally just stood around, let them get tired, and only go in if it got dangerous for somebody, but otherwise just let the other players on the ice break it up. If poo poo started getting real stupid, yeah, sure, we cleared everything out, but by the time you're grown men, usually the players can deal with it. Hell, I saw 5 fights in that league, we went in twice, and only once did we report it as a fight on the sheet. Otherwise, we went with the time tested give them a misconduct, and whatever number of roughing penalties to make sure they were out of the game. That's 5 fights while reffing 6-8 games a week for 2 years. Summers off obviously. The guys also knew that fighting could get them tossed from the league, and so did we, so there's that, but still.
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Jul 20, 2011 23:12
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Now that you mention it, I just took another look at a video one of the recent suspensions in my league. Looks like the refs did let the two have at it, and just kept other players from joining in. The video is pretty crappy and short, so I can't really tell what they did with the 3rd man in though.
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Jul 21, 2011 00:54
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sellouts posted:Sounds like your dman was the third man into the altercation, wether he threw a punch or was just grappling with a guy. The rule only defines when someone intervenes as being third man in. Thats exactly what they called. It's just bullshit though because if the refs arent gonna break it up, and the guy doesnt wanna fight back so he can avoid a suspension, are we really supposed to just have everyone stand around and let him get wailed on?
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Jul 21, 2011 01:25
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Henrik Zetterberg posted:We've been told that it's the refs jobs to break it up. Well actually, in a 3 or 4 man system, it's the linesmen's job to break up fights. Referees just sit around like lazy bums writing in their diaries.  I understand the 3rd man in rule is to prevent other players from getting involved, but if the Lines aren't doing their job controlling the situation, I don't see why someone stepping in to do their job for them should be punished. I don't see why some players lose their heads over their teammates getting beaten up when they know the consequences. One of the best players on my team this year had the most points and penalty minutes because he got in a lot of scraps to defend his honor/teammate or simply a stupid retaliatory penalty. I'd much rather get knocked on my rear end and have a PP instead of having one of the players on the main PP unit jump in after I get creamed and play 4 on 4. Maybe it's just the outsider perspective of me being a goalie. I swear you forwards and defensemen are crazy. V  V
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Jul 21, 2011 03:52
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toxicsunset posted:Thats exactly what they called. It's just bullshit though because if the refs arent gonna break it up, and the guy doesnt wanna fight back so he can avoid a suspension, are we really supposed to just have everyone stand around and let him get wailed on? Basically, yeah. If the guy is down in a turtle position and the instigator is over the top of him wailing or whatever, then yeah, the officials should jump in. Most of my experiences in dealing with these situations is that while the other guy ('victim') might not do much (which is rare in and of itself) he does stay on his feet and try to "man up" and take it rather than actually trying to skate away or turtle. That kind of position is dangerous for officials to jump into because who knows when the victim will see his chance to start returning punches, especially if the officials start to restrain the instigator and the victim can get a few shots in. But usually at the very least there's a shove or something though by the "victim" that, while not a punch, isn't exactly trying to diffuse the situation. I don't know what happened in your specific case and it's entirely possible that the dude is 100% innocent. Fights in adult league are pathetic for everyone. gco posted:I understand the 3rd man in rule is to prevent other players from getting involved, but if the Lines aren't doing their job controlling the situation, I don't see why someone stepping in to do their job for them should be punished. What beer league do you play in that has linesmen? Fighting isn't part of beer league (or it shouldn't be) so if a beer league did have linesmen, they certainly don't get paid enough to deal with that level of nonsense from adults. If anything, the criticism would be the referee's not calling a tight enough game to stop this before it happens. Again, most of the times, there are plenty of signs that a game is heading down that road either during the game or from previous games. Not always, but most of the time. sellouts fucked around with this message at 04:56 on Jul 21, 2011 |
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Jul 21, 2011 04:53
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Some dude tonight kept yapping about wanting to fight my teammate after the game. It was funny when he came up to him in the lobby to start poo poo and then realized my teammate's mom was standing right next to him. "Hey man...you should uh...you should watch your mouth out there."
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Jul 21, 2011 05:09
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Thufir posted:Some dude tonight kept yapping about wanting to fight my teammate after the game. It was funny when he came up to him in the lobby to start poo poo and then realized my teammate's mom was standing right next to him. "Hey man...you should uh...you should watch your mouth out there." Christ. Why do people take poo poo off the ice? Once the buzzer sounds it's over. e: I probably shouldn't admit to some of the poo poo I've said to guys on the ice. But it was all forgotten as soon as I hit the locker room. waffle enthusiast fucked around with this message at 05:42 on Jul 21, 2011 |
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Jul 21, 2011 05:37
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sellouts posted:Basically, yeah. If the guy is down in a turtle position and the instigator is over the top of him wailing or whatever, then yeah, the officials should jump in. Most of my experiences in dealing with these situations is that while the other guy ('victim') might not do much (which is rare in and of itself) he does stay on his feet and try to "man up" and take it rather than actually trying to skate away or turtle. That kind of position is dangerous for officials to jump into because who knows when the victim will see his chance to start returning punches, especially if the officials start to restrain the instigator and the victim can get a few shots in. I didn't see how it started but after getting punched once he put his arms in the air in a 'what the gently caress' gesture and was saying "what the gently caress, really bro? I have a cage on it dont even hurt" while getting punched a few more times and he turned to skate away when the guy came after him again and thats when the goalie lost it and poo poo got chaotic Edit: There wasn't much the refs could've done RE: calling a tighter game, either. This was kind of out of nowhere. They were just getting blown out pretty bad and getting frustrated, doing a lot of passive-aggressive stuff like 'accidentally' skating into you on their way to the bench and stuff. A lot of his own teammates were pretty bewildered by his behavior toxicsunset fucked around with this message at 11:22 on Jul 21, 2011 |
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Jul 21, 2011 11:15
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Dangerllama posted:Christ. Why do people take poo poo off the ice? Because beer league hockey is very serious business, I think a lot of us didn't get that memo. So I'm used to playing in an arena that has 4 divisions: gold, silver, bronze, and over 30 (does not apply). I'm thinking about joining another league in the Philly area that has 6 divisions, A-F ... my question is, if I play bronze at place A (and honestly I'd say I'm middle of the pack skill wise), where does that put me in the A-F arena? Also, with so much "separation" of talent, at what level does the skill level really even out? For instance, one of the guys that shows up for open hockey on Saturday plays in the F league, but is clearly an A-B player. I know that it probably depends a lot on my location and I'd probably get better info from the league owner, but I wanted to get your folks opinion on the matter.
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Jul 21, 2011 14:53
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In the few places I've played the divisions are approximately like so: A - used to play college or semi-pro. B - played midget, maybe some college. C - played midget or has been playing for a while. D - has maybe a couple of years of hockey, but no formal experience. E&F - Can stand up on skates. May or may not be able to skate backwards well. Maybe head out to watch a league game for whatever division you think you'd fit in. See how the pace is before you jump in. A reminder though: games always look much worse when you're observing than they do from the bench. When I skate at my Lunch League (basically mid-C) I'm always astounded at how slow everything looks from the glass. I catch myself thinking, "Really? We're that bad?" waffle enthusiast fucked around with this message at 16:00 on Jul 21, 2011 |
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Jul 21, 2011 15:53
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sellouts posted:What beer league do you play in that has linesmen? Fighting isn't part of beer league (or it shouldn't be) so if a beer league did have linesmen, they certainly don't get paid enough to deal with that level of nonsense from adults. Wow, that's weird. Some of the leagues I've seen around here have two linesmen and a ref. I'll agree that officials don't get paid enough to deal with the poo poo that they have to from experience. I've never reffed over pee-wees, but I've noticed some kids can be very nasty learning from enforcers in the NHL. They (with the adults included) must think the're scouts in the stands and want to show that they're Tough Hockey Players.
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Jul 21, 2011 16:16
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Dangerllama posted:In the few places I've played the divisions are approximately like so: The division I skate in is roughly "A" by that classification. Last year we had a handful of games that took place after the AHL Barons practices. My girlfriend (who is a huge Barons fan) always went to the practices and then stayed for our games, and was always very eager to tell me how much smaller, slower, less skilled, stupider and uglier we looked compared to the AHL guys. As far as I can tell, we are to AHL guys what AHL guys are to NHL guys. In conclusion professional hockey players are frighteningly good at what they do.
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Jul 21, 2011 18:42
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edit: nevermind! completely misread that post 
Gio fucked around with this message at 18:53 on Jul 21, 2011 |
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Jul 21, 2011 18:47
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bewbies posted:In conclusion professional hockey players are frighteningly good at what they do. Yeah, the best guys I've ever played with, who are like unstoppable hockey killing machines in drop-in, were barely able to scratch the ECHL in their prime.
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Jul 21, 2011 18:53
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I've played 'with'(see: was at a stick-time at the same time as) a guy who played in the AHL once and he was a loving God
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Jul 21, 2011 19:20
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bewbies posted:The division I skate in is roughly "A" by that classification. Last year we had a handful of games that took place after the AHL Barons practices. My girlfriend (who is a huge Barons fan) always went to the practices and then stayed for our games, and was always very eager to tell me how much smaller, slower, less skilled, stupider and uglier we looked compared to the AHL guys. As far as I can tell, we are to AHL guys what AHL guys are to NHL guys. I was watching scott nichol skate once and commented to my friend, in terms of overall talent he has to be in the bottom 50 in the NHL but he would destroy anyone I know. My friend plays semi-pro roller in Italy and he is really good at ice and roller. If he had started playing ice as a kid he could have played D1 at the worst.
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Jul 21, 2011 19:30
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My brother in law (as of next week) plays AHL/NHL and has made the AHL all star roster a few times. It's absolutely retarded trying to skate with him and being a defenseman means he can control a puck like its glued to his stick. I always try to keep in mind that he's only seen about 30 NHL games in his career so I cant begin to imagine how much more talent lies in the top NHL pros. Luckily now that he's in the western conference (Calgary Flames) I can possibly watch his progress on TV compared to when he was in the eastern. Last summer I played a lot of roller with a swedish kid who played college and juniors here in the states. He had size, could move the puck as if commanded by god himself, and could bury the puck at will. One of the other guys at this skate was Cammi Granato's brother and former coach of the Chicago Wolves Don Granato. I think I improved more in that summer than in the last few years of skating. The worst is when you have the opportunity to play professional/semi pro goalies. It really kills your ego and blows you away how quickly they can close a hole. Even worse when a female college goalie shuts you down like its her religion.
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Jul 21, 2011 20:07
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Eric Boulton is no joke one of the best skaters I've ever seen, especially for his size
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Jul 21, 2011 20:07
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bewbies posted:The division I skate in is roughly "A" by that classification. Last year we had a handful of games that took place after the AHL Barons practices. My girlfriend (who is a huge Barons fan) always went to the practices and then stayed for our games, and was always very eager to tell me how much smaller, slower, less skilled, stupider and uglier we looked compared to the AHL guys. As far as I can tell, we are to AHL guys what AHL guys are to NHL guys. AHL is NHL farm league, though. I think they're actually a lot closer to NHL players than we muggles are to them. Case in point, I just got back from drop-in, skating with a bunch of *HL and DII guys. Apparently one of them is in the Ducks' system or something. They're all ridiculous. One of the coaches of a local junior team played in the CHL for most of his career and, from what I've been told, he's got better hands than half the guys in the NHL (I've never had the opportunity to skate with NHL). I've seen him walk around ECHL guys and younger pros like they were pylons. My take-away is that hockey is a lot like most other sport in that, unless you're clearly one of the best of the best (e: top 3 lines), moving from the farm team to the big league is more a product of politics and luck than it is a clear delineation of skill. The best part of today's drop in was when Señor Ridiculous Hands made a move around one guy, then spin-o-rama's to make a move around me, I sweep check - and subsequently grabbed the puck and took off the other way. For the next 10 seconds I was all 
waffle enthusiast fucked around with this message at 21:07 on Jul 21, 2011 |
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Jul 21, 2011 21:03
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Dangerllama posted:AHL is NHL farm league, though. I think they're actually a lot closer to NHL players than we muggles are to them. Case in point, I just got back from drop-in, skating with a bunch of *HL and DII guys. Apparently one of them is in the Ducks' system or something. They're all ridiculous. One of the coaches of a local junior team played in the CHL for most of his career and, from what I've been told, he's got better hands than half the guys in the NHL (I've never had the opportunity to skate with NHL). I've seen him walk around ECHL guys and younger pros like they were pylons. I heard from someone who has seen both AHL and NHL games closer than any of us ever will that a good AHL top line is a NHL 3rd line at best.
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Jul 21, 2011 21:17
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poser posted:I heard from someone who has seen both AHL and NHL games closer than any of us ever will that a good AHL top line is a NHL 3rd line at best. Third line Oilers and third line Detroit is noticeable step up I would think. Makes a little sense I guess.
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Jul 21, 2011 21:22
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WouldDesk posted:Third line Oilers and third line Detroit is noticeable step up I would think. Makes a little sense I guess. It was a general statement but he said that NHL skaters are crazy good.
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Jul 21, 2011 21:26
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Dangerllama posted:My take-away is that hockey is a lot like most other sport in that, unless you're clearly one of the best of the best (e: top 3 lines), moving from the farm team to the big league is more a product of politics and luck than it is a clear delineation of skill. From what I've experienced with my bro-in-law, its mostly politics and waiting until someone gets injured to make room on the bench. It's funny to see guys with no skill get the call simply to fill a tough guy role when you have large point contributers who put their time in the AHL night in night out without a call.
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Jul 21, 2011 21:47
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A lot of those guys with stupid skill that show up to drop ins and what not might have the skill for the NHL, but lack important things such as size, and especially the head for hockey. A lot of them I've run into are douches as well.
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Jul 21, 2011 22:09
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D C posted:A lot of those guys with stupid skill that show up to drop ins and what not might have the skill for the NHL, but lack important things such as size, and especially the head for hockey. This is true. Basically everyone in the NHL is 6' tall or more. Long legs make all the difference in the world when skating.
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Jul 21, 2011 22:29
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gigabitnokie posted:This is true. Basically everyone in the NHL is 6' tall or more. Long legs make all the difference in the world when skating. Thanks for that 30" inseam, genetics. 
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Jul 21, 2011 23:23
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xzzy posted:Thanks for that 30" inseam, genetics. I'm 5'8" but it's cool because so is Martin St. Louis. WE CAN STILL MAKE THE SHOW, MAN!!!
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Jul 21, 2011 23:52
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xzzy posted:Thanks for that 30" inseam, genetics. Also if someone can wear 14" shinguards I have some RBK 11k ones I'm trying to get rid of, they don't fit me so figure I'll give you guys first pass before I turn to eBay or elsewhere. Would be willing to let 'em go for $50 + shipping
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Jul 22, 2011 00:22
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gco posted:Wow, that's weird. Some of the leagues I've seen around here have two linesmen and a ref. I'll agree that officials don't get paid enough to deal with the poo poo that they have to from experience. I've never reffed over pee-wees, but I've noticed some kids can be very nasty learning from enforcers in the NHL. They (with the adults included) must think the're scouts in the stands and want to show that they're Tough Hockey Players. Yeah, I've never played in an adult game (non tournament) with linesmen and referees. But I also play in poo poo hockey markets (TX and CA), so maybe in other places it's better. And I hear ya about refereeing kids games. I thought being an official would be a great way to get some free skating in and get a little cash on the side -- yeah, I didn't last 2 years. Between parents and coaches, the kids were the least annoying. I think my breaking point was when a coach complained in a Mite game about me calling an intentional offsides on a team that was up 27-0 and wouldn't stop shooting just to give the other team a chance to maybe put a puck on the net once.
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Jul 22, 2011 00:26
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bewbies, do you plan on taking part in the Blazers Ice Center charity hockey extravaganza marathon Saturday? Seems like a cool idea, 15 or so hours of hockey for $100 donation.
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Jul 22, 2011 00:40
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Had an AHL/NHLer show up to one of my beer league games once and it was pretty funny. He refused to shoot and was just actively trying to be bad. Like he'd skate up behind someone and just kind of stop and gently harass them. It completely brought home just what a ridiculous level these guys play at, especially in terms of skating and passing. He also brought beer for the locker room after 
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Jul 22, 2011 04:28
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WouldDesk posted:bewbies, do you plan on taking part in the Blazers Ice Center charity hockey extravaganza marathon Saturday? Seems like a cool idea, 15 or so hours of hockey for $100 donation. I was actually going to, but my back has been killing me lately and I didn't think 15 hours of hockey would do anything good for it so I backed out earlier this week. It should be a lot of fun though.
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Jul 22, 2011 07:28
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So some fatass, 5'9", 275 Pounds, all jelly, want's to throw his weight around all night last night. To include an open ice leveling of on of our tiny, not very good skaters. (This could be due to his in ability to stop that much weight) During the second period he starts to just start throwing me into the boards and generally playing like a douche, taking some penalties. Anyway fast forward to the beigning of the third, I get a break on their line change (was playing D), and it's me and 2 of their D, one of which was this fatty. So as I skated up I said "come on fatty, come on fatty." and proceeded to score. He didn't shake my hand after the game  .It was a dick move, and I kinda felt bad, but the guy deserved it.
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Jul 22, 2011 13:03
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Hockey Otter
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I am trying to learn how to inline skate and hopefully start playing ice hockey eventually. Assuming I ever learn to skate faster than 5 mph and learn to turn, what's the best sort of beginner (ice) league to join? Some dude I play floor with keeps asking if I wanted to join Hockey North America, has anyone ever tried that? I'm in Cleveland
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Jul 22, 2011 14:01
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EDIT: Sorry you're in Cleveland. But at least you're not Detroit!Doctor Butts posted:I am trying to learn how to inline skate and hopefully start playing ice hockey eventually. HNA is ok. They are a league that finds rinks in an area, and buys icetime/refs/scorekeepers and then sells that to the player. As opposed to a league being run out of 1 specific rink. For beginners though, it's great! HNA has a beginner program that will take someone who has never played hockey, put them on a team of beginners, and coach them through 5 sessions, and then coach them through 5 games at the lowest level. They go through all the basics I believe, and teach you about your edges, how to properly skate, and some hockey sense. That team is then the newest entry in their lowest league in the area, and can sometimes turn into a great group. Other times, it turns into a raging pile of dickheads who think they're better than one another. It will get you into ice hockey, and that's how you meet new players and find other teams, so it's a good deal either way. If you can get good at inline skating, it should make the transition to ice easier. But really, it will still be hard. It's best to just get out on the ice. I bet you could sign up for the next winter HNA beginner team in your area, as fall/winter sign-ups just came out around here. Nizox fucked around with this message at 14:31 on Jul 22, 2011 |
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Jul 22, 2011 14:06
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Hey Metro Detroit-area hockey folks, get over to the Perani's warehouse sale in Farmington Hills if you haven't been able to yet. Crazy deals on everything. I picked up a pair of S14 sticks ($99 for one, $175 for two) and Bauer X40 shins for $45.
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Jul 22, 2011 19:57
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Doctor Butts posted:I am trying to learn how to inline skate and hopefully start playing ice hockey eventually. Just go straight to ice.
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Jul 22, 2011 22:15
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sellouts posted:Just go straight to ice. This, it's easier to go from ice to roller then the other way around. inline can give you some bad habits.
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Jul 22, 2011 23:32
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D C posted:This, it's easier to go from ice to roller then the other way around. inline can give you some bad habits. Ice gave me a bad habit that almost cracked my skull one time. I tried to hockey stop on roller blades.  Luckily I caught myself before I killed myself, but it took me a while to not instinctively hockey stop.The coach I'm working with right now is one of the examples other people have stated about guys who have better hands than NHLers. He was drafted in the 9th round 14 years ago (there's only 7 rounds now!) and has been in and out of minor leagues before he set his mind solely on coaching. When compared to the NHL prospects and current NHL players, side by side, he is definitely a better skater and shooter than the prospects I've seen, who have been drafted around the 3rd round in the past few years. He is definitely on par with the NHL guys I've had the honor of playing with, who are 2nd to 3rd liners for the most part.
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Jul 23, 2011 04:06
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gco posted:Ice gave me a bad habit that almost cracked my skull one time. I tried to hockey stop on roller blades. This same thing also happens in reverse. I take a perverse pleasure in watching an inline guy start spinning like a top the first time he tries to stop on ice 
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Jul 23, 2011 07:39
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