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euphronius posted:Mormont is totally killing Selmy.
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Jul 22, 2011 21:56
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NihilCredo posted:The reason Jorah risked his life for Dany was love (or infatuation), not loyalty. (He sucked at loyalty. Had loyalty been what moved him, he would have stopped writing to Varys way, way before Qarth.) He's also clearly not the most devoted servant. As her POV made clear, had he begged forgiveness for his actions like Barristan instead of getting all defensive and uppity, she would have probably kept him around. Barristan was all for pledging to her and letting her decide what to do. Jorah was all for trying to come out of it looking clean.
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Jul 22, 2011 21:56
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Well here's hoping she gets murdered at her own personal Red Wedding that could have been avoided if she hadn't split idiot hairs about "ugh he saved me from that assassin but he LIED about why!!" and I don't have to read her boring rear end povs anymore
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Jul 22, 2011 22:49
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Iggles posted:Not on the best day of his life I don't think Jorah would even try. He had the honour to leave Longclaw on Bear Island. He would not try to kill the second greatest living knight (after Bloodraven).
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Jul 22, 2011 22:55
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Neurosis posted:I don't think Jorah would even try. He had the honour to leave Longclaw on Bear Island. He would not try to kill the second greatest living knight (after Bloodraven).
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Jul 22, 2011 22:59
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I'm counting him because I think Bloodraven rules. If you discount him (as nearly anyone would) then Selmy is the greatest knight.
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Jul 22, 2011 23:02
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Ray_ posted:Speaking of, was that one of the 3 treasons? Dany seems to think it was the treason for gold, she says it a few times. But she also seems to count everyone else as the possible third, especially Brown Ben, who didn't even matter much. She also seems to think that three is the limit, like she'll be safe from betrayal afterwards or some poo poo.
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Jul 22, 2011 23:03
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I'd like to see Selmy fight Ser Gregor. Then we'll see who the best living knight is. 
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Jul 22, 2011 23:05
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VaultAggie posted:I'd like to see Selmy fight Ser Gregor. Then we'll see who the best living knight is. Ser Robert Strong doesn't quite qualify as living.
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Jul 22, 2011 23:07
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bigmcgaffney posted:Dany seems to think it was the treason for gold, she says it a few times. But she also seems to count everyone else as the possible third, especially Brown Ben, who didn't even matter much. She also seems to think that three is the limit, like she'll be safe from betrayal afterwards or some poo poo. When you put it that way, it makes it sound like she's approaching prophecy the same way Cersei does, i.e. "if condition X of prophecy Y is never fulfilled I'm immune from result Z even by other means".
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Jul 22, 2011 23:51
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VaultAggie posted:I'd like to see Selmy fight Ser Gregor. Then we'll see who the best living knight is. I want zombie Gregor with Lady's/Ned's head sewn onto his body to fight DarkStar, dammit! I mean, he is the most dangerous man in Dorne. (To twelve-year olds' ears).
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Jul 23, 2011 00:05
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Brannock posted:And he managed to dodge that completely ... I'm glad DWD came out but it did pretty much nothing to progress the plot. At least TWOW + ADOS should wrap the series up nicely, considering how much poo poo happened in ACOK + ASOS Really? Everyone is in place for the big battle outside Mereen. Barristan is leading forward his forces. Victarion is sailing in with his fleet and his horn. Tyrion is turning the mercenaries, and Dany is on her way back with a dragon and maybe a whole new horde. It's kind of lame the Essos stuff ends right on the eve of a battle that's shaping up to make the Blackwater look like a skirmish, but GRRM certainly untied his Mereenese knot. And big cliff hangers have characterized the last two books, so as much as I don't particularly like it, it's par for the current course.
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Jul 23, 2011 01:13
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Just caught up with the thread, and had a few questions after having finished the book last week: 1) What were Tyrion and that mercenary talking about regarding the dragons liking him so much? 2) Do Kevan and the rest of the council suspect that Robert Strong is really a living Clegane?
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Jul 23, 2011 01:52
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euphronius posted:The knot was not how to get Dany out, but how to sequence the many different people arriving to Meereen. At least that is what GRRM said in a quote posted a few pages back. What indications are there that the order Tyrion, Victarion and Marwyn show up is important or complicated at all? Quentyn had exactly zero impact on the plot, Dany doesn't even know he's dead, he clearly could have showed up at any point.
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Jul 23, 2011 02:08
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Adama posted:2) Do Kevan and the rest of the council suspect that Robert Strong is really a living Clegane? Based on Kevan's thoughts, they pretty clearly know that it is/was Gregor and that he doesn't eat, sleep, or poo poo anymore.
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Jul 23, 2011 02:09
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Brannock posted:Lots of EVENTS and character development happened, I recognize that, but I feel like we're still in the same place we were at the end of Storm of Swords: the realm is incredibly destabilized, people are dying left and right and there's a food crisis, the Others are abooooout to invade, and Daenerys is off in Essos. This is where we were at the end of Clash of Kings, so I guess that means nothing happened in Storm of Swords either? I still don't think the Iron Throne is going to be the hard part though, the hard part is going to be making the Others interesting. How do you have political machinations, intrigue and betrayal when one side is an unrelenting force of nature? How do you stop the series from turning into high magic good guys vs bad guys, when the guys who have been set up to invade from the first chapter of book one are (so far) the definition of unthinking evil? I'm very interested to see how he keeps the tone of the series once the Others really come into play, we've only had tiny hints so far that there are forces who might be with the Others, and even then it's more groups that might be opposed to groups who might be able to deal with the Others.
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Jul 23, 2011 02:22
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SmugDogMillionaire posted:Based on Kevan's thoughts, they pretty clearly know that it is/was Gregor and that he doesn't eat, sleep, or poo poo anymore. I'm hoping that the next book includes some kind of reaction to this among the King's Landing crew. It's one thing to have rumors of magic in other places but there has to be some kind of reaction among the "grumkins and snarks" people to an actual zombie golem thing stomping around. I'm starting to think Varys' claims of hating magic magic are a bunch of bullshit, since he apparently supports the magic white haired pretty princess dynasty. Something else is bugging me. If Varys is working with Illyrio and has been supporting Dany all along, why did he actually carry out Robert's orders to assassinate her?
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Jul 23, 2011 02:28
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Ambiguatron posted:Something else is bugging me. If Varys is working with Illyrio and has been supporting Dany all along, why did he actually carry out Robert's orders to assassinate her?
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Jul 23, 2011 02:31
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Ambiguatron posted:I'm starting to think Varys' claims of hating magic magic are a bunch of bullshit, since he apparently supports the magic white haired pretty princess dynasty. That's one of the only things he's ever said that I actually believe... Granted I don't know how it reconciles, but I did believe him when he said that. Ambiguatron posted:Something else is bugging me. If Varys is working with Illyrio and has been supporting Dany all along, why did he actually carry out Robert's orders to assassinate her? Yeah that didn't really make sense, unless he somehow knew it was going to be foiled. Considering it turned out to be a close call, it was a pretty risky move if he was truly backing Dany. I think ultimately their plan was that Aegon would be the guy. They couldn't have expected Dany to hatch dragons and take over cities. When they first came up with the plan, I think they were expecting Dany's role to be nothing more than an alliance with Drogo's army.
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Jul 23, 2011 02:39
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Ambiguatron posted:Something else is bugging me. If Varys is working with Illyrio and has been supporting Dany all along, why did he actually carry out Robert's orders to assassinate her?
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Jul 23, 2011 02:45
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the talent deficit posted:What indications are there that the order Tyrion, Victarion and Marwyn show up is important or complicated at all? Quentyn had exactly zero impact on the plot, Dany doesn't even know he's dead, he clearly could have showed up at any point. As long as Quentyn showed up TOO LATE and Victarion exactly when a fleet is needed, I don't think it mattered too much either.
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Jul 23, 2011 02:50
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hampig posted:This is where we were at the end of Clash of Kings, so I guess that means nothing happened in Storm of Swords either? I think GRRM has laid good groundwork for an interesting ending with the Others and the coming of winter and whatnot. Bran's chapters have shown the "Good" side of the wintry magics, and Melisandra has shown us the "Evil" side of the fiery magics. So the final conflict isn't going to be totally black and white. Also, Westeros is gonna be totally, totally hosed at the end of all this, so even if they do save the realm from the others, there's not gonna be much of a realm left.
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Jul 23, 2011 03:09
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As he was killed Ned Stark warged into Balerion the black tomcat.
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Jul 23, 2011 03:37
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Who was that Quaithe person who Dany kept hallucinating and she said a bunch of prophetic crap that didn't even end up coming true, like beware the lion and the griffin and she didn't meet either of them and the perfumed seneschal who didn't do anything particularly bad
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Jul 23, 2011 03:41
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HeroOfTheRevolution posted:Who was that Quaithe person who Dany kept hallucinating and she said a bunch of prophetic crap that didn't even end up coming true, like beware the lion and the griffin and she didn't meet either of them and the perfumed seneschal who didn't do anything particularly bad Hasn't met them yet, you mean! Reznak Gro Urdan Uruk Hai hasn't done anything bad that we know of, but it is known that all, perfumed men in this series are evil! Victarion knows this all too well.
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Jul 23, 2011 03:46
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HeroOfTheRevolution posted:Who was that Quaithe person who Dany kept hallucinating and she said a bunch of prophetic crap that didn't even end up coming true, like beware the lion and the griffin and she didn't meet either of them and the perfumed seneschal who didn't do anything particularly bad She was one of the three people who came to Dany when her little khalasar was nearly dead after crossing the desert. She turns up like once per book to tell Dany the same thing about heading east to go west etc. She's also one of like 2 people we know of who is from Asshai.
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Jul 23, 2011 03:49
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bigmcgaffney posted:Victarion knows this all too well. That was by far one of the funniest parts of the book. Victarion just chucks them overboard without a second thought.
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Jul 23, 2011 03:52
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Goddamit the perfumed sesechenal is a goddamn boat, Also sandor is a monk, renly is gay and littlefinger is responsible for ned's beheading. Also, pies.
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Jul 23, 2011 03:54
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Whose boat is it
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Jul 23, 2011 04:00
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HeroOfTheRevolution posted:Whose boat is it A secret targ
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Jul 23, 2011 04:02
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Smiling Jack posted:Goddamit the perfumed sesechenal is a goddamn boat, A boat that sank. Great job, boat.
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Jul 23, 2011 04:06
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Vivek posted:A boat that sank. Great job, boat. Thats what I thought. GRRM makes a big deal that it translates to perfumed seneschal, so you think it could fit the prophecy, but then it sinks. Tyrion was aboard it.
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Jul 23, 2011 04:12
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I assume by boat everyone means ship. 
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Jul 23, 2011 04:13
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The boat got Jorah and Tyrion to Mereen like it was supposed to. Either one of those two is going to gently caress Dany bad.
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Jul 23, 2011 04:13
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euphronius posted:I assume by boat everyone means ship. Oh right, the 'Stinky Steward' or whatever stupid joke Tyrion made that GRRM probably thought was hilarious. No, it was a riverboat. Also, I like to think that people keep telling Dany prophecies just to gently caress with her.
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Jul 23, 2011 04:15
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Hmm, this is interesting when you compare it to the things Melisandre says about darkness/shadows/light:Bloodraven teaching Bran posted:There he sat, listening to the hoarse whispers of his teacher. “Never fear the darkness, Bran.” The lord’s words were accompanied by a faint rustling of wood and leaf, a slight twisting of his head. “The strongest trees are rooted in the dark places of the earth. Darkness will be your cloak, your shield, your mother’s milk. Darkness will make you strong.” Is Bran unknowingly studying to be a servant of the Great Other?
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Jul 23, 2011 04:16
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Ray_ posted:\ I made this point a few pages back. I connected Bloodraven to Coldhands and thus the Others. It could be that Bloodraven is directing the Others. And thus, eventually, Bran too. I agree.
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Jul 23, 2011 04:18
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I don't think so, there's been a pretty clear parallel drawn between the evil of Melisandre's magic and the benign nature of Bran's. Melisandre's requires the sacrifice of other people, while the magic of the children requires sacrifice of the self.
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Jul 23, 2011 04:20
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Smiling Jack posted:Goddamit the perfumed sesechenal is a goddamn boat, bigmcgaffney posted:Thats what I thought. GRRM makes a big deal that it translates to perfumed seneschal, so you think it could fit the prophecy, but then it sinks. Tyrion was aboard it. Don't think it sank. Pretty sure Tyrion and Jorah and Penny were on it when they got taken by slavers. It was wrecked from the storm, but it was still afloat.
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Jul 23, 2011 04:23
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Ray_ posted:Hmm, this is interesting when you compare it to the things Melisandre says about darkness/shadows/light: I thought there was a bit in Melisandre's chapter about how she sees the Great Other and his wolf companion or something like that. I thought about Bran then, or at least wargs in general.
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Jul 23, 2011 04:23
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