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hypocrite lecteur posted:He's a bad writer and incapable of building dramatic tension other than "IS YOUR FAVOURITE CHARACTER DEAD? BUY MY NEXT BOOK AND FIND OUT!" if you don't like it at this point pull the cord on the series bro I am getting annoyed a little by this but I dont think I'll give up. It just means I wont get annoyed because I am totally expecting it to be years before the next book. When it comes it comes but I won't be waiting. The TV show at least has a schedule I can follow. They are totally gonna catch up to him considering the popularity of the show. How much did he say he pushed into Winds of Winter?
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Jul 25, 2011 03:29
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Fists Up posted:I am getting annoyed a little by this but I dont think I'll give up. It just means I wont get annoyed because I am totally expecting it to be years before the next book. When it comes it comes but I won't be waiting. The TV show at least has a schedule I can follow. They are totally gonna catch up to him considering the popularity of the show. Two major events were shuffled into the next book.
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Jul 25, 2011 03:30
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If this story is going to come to a decent conclusion GRRM needs to pick up the pace. By about halfway or three quarters through the next book we need everyone on Westeros and in 2-3 main groups fully fighting for the iron throne, by the end we need to have the Others south of the wall and at least 2-3 POV characters dead or brought to a satisfying conclusion. The most important part is getting characters together, while they're apart it's the story of one block of time told from many different perspectives, when characters are together we can have a Dany chapter that involves Tyrion, then a Tyrion chapter that picks up where the Dany chapter left off. In the end George needs to re-learn how to walk and chew gum, or how to move the story forward while exploring the characters.
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Jul 25, 2011 03:30
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Gangringo posted:If this story is going to come to a decent conclusion GRRM needs to pick up the pace. By about halfway or three quarters through the next book we need everyone on Westeros and in 2-3 main groups fully fighting for the iron throne, by the end we need to have the Others south of the wall and at least 2-3 POV characters dead or brought to a satisfying conclusion. This right here. I'm hoping that GRRM knows that he needs to get poo poo moving along in Winds of Winter if he's going to keep his fans reading. With so many goddamn POV characters each arc moves along at an unbearable glacial pace.
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Jul 25, 2011 03:43
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Dorne is going to be collectively pissed when they hear that an 8 foot tall knight who never takes his helmet off is hanging around King's Landing. I'm looking forward to that trial by combat for Cersei in the hopes Zombie-Gregor gets exposed as such. The newly empowered religious faction probably will not take too kindly towards necromancy. The way that the letter from Ramsay talks about Reek really makes me think that it's genuine. He might be lying about the battle and victory since it doesn't completely jive with what we know about the banker and Jeyne Poole arriving in Stannis's camp. The letter might also be from Mance as some larger ploy to get his babby back and to get Jon to forsake his vows and leave the wall. Since Jon is dead, Melisandre can rez him and now his watch is done along with his obligation towards the Night Watch. She was acting very strange around him and this could be something she set into motion. Finally, I find that I might be in-love with Manderly and his delicious pies.
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Jul 25, 2011 03:53
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Second best part of ADWD. The white raven coming signalling Winter has started so everyone can stop loving saying "WINTER IS COMING". Yeh. Its come you pricks. Now what.
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Jul 25, 2011 03:56
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Fists Up posted:Second best part of ADWD. The white raven coming signalling Winter has started so everyone can stop loving saying "WINTER IS COMING". Yeh. Its come you pricks. Now what. "NEXT WINTER IS COMING!!!"
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Jul 25, 2011 04:00
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I personally thought the last two books were more of a setup for the final 2 books, as there were a lot of cliffhangers. Sort of like game of thrones set the pieces into motion of the overall story in the subsequent books. I expect a ton of poo poo to go down in the next book. Jon being reborn as Azor to fight the invasion of others, what the hell Aarya is going to do or kill as an assassin, Jamie being led into a trap, Littlefinger and Sansa, and prince Aegons invasion of Westeros...oh so much. Though I cannot for the life of me see where Tyrion and Dany are going as nothing happened in there chapters except for tyrion going from one place to the next and Dany being a complete idiot. Also I think there should have been only 5 books as GRRM had already planned. There was just a ton of filler material that was quite boring like Brienne, Quentyn (what the hell was the point of his character?), Dany in Meereen (we get it, she sucks at as a ruler), Tyrion's endless journeys from 1 spot to the next. Yeah yeah I'm bitching, still love the series though, just kinda annoyed that he couldn't fit this together in one book so we wouldn't have to wait 6 years in between releases. Master Kush fucked around with this message at 04:27 on Jul 25, 2011 |
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Jul 25, 2011 04:01
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I hope theres a Penny POV in the next book.
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Jul 25, 2011 04:06
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Does someone have a link to all the gods that are mentioned and the theories surrounding them? There's the fire god, the seven, the old northern gods, the drowned god, the other, etc. I got the impression that Melisandre was saying Bran served the other and was the enemy or something but it's been so long since I've read all these books I kind of forget. It seems like the seven have no power, clearly R'hller and the old gods have some sort of actual magic to them etc.
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Jul 25, 2011 04:07
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There's been five books leading up to winter, each purporting to build a sense of dread and fear about what a harrowing and trying thing winters are for Westeros, in many places it's been hinted that this will be an especially dark and long one can't wait to see how that's handled within the course of one book. dany isn't even in westeros yet. grrm has no idea what he's doing in the series.
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Jul 25, 2011 04:20
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Lyon posted:Does someone have a link to all the gods that are mentioned and the theories surrounding them? I'm fairly certain none of the gods are real. I think R'hller and the like are just personifications of magical forces, they don't actually exist as beings. You kinda see this with the old gods. The old gods aren't real or, at least, aren't gods. The power beyond the trees and the like seem to be wargs not gods.
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Jul 25, 2011 04:24
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Fists Up posted:They are totally gonna catch up to him considering the popularity of the show. Actually that is something I am worried about as I love the T.V series. But didn't it cost like 100 million for the first season? The subsequent seasons will probably be even more expensive as there are some big battles you would need CGI for and different locations that they would have to either build or film at, not to mention a more characters being added. I mean Rome and Deadwood were some of the all time greatest shows on T.V, ever, and had huge popularity, but they canceled it because of the expensive budget. The only way I see this show lasting the duration of the books is if HBO added a lot of new subscribers based soley on the show. Does anyone have any idea what the numbers are for new subscribers for game of thrones?
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Jul 25, 2011 04:26
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Master Kush posted:Actually that is something I am worried about as I love the T.V series. But didn't it cost like 100 million for the first season? 55 million. DVD and foreign sale potential seems to be huge and that strikes me as the saving grace/hope. Supposedly HBO recouped all the costs for the first season with sales to foreign channels alone. SmugDogMillionaire fucked around with this message at 04:33 on Jul 25, 2011 |
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Jul 25, 2011 04:27
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I think the buzz and the many articles that featured GoT and the HBO label alone was worth the investment for them PR-wise. If season 2 manages to draw in a similar amount of viewer as season 1 did for the later half of the season I wouldn't worry at all. And since I think they've learned from the Rome/Deadwood misstep (where the DVD sales were so amazing that the cancellation was an shortsighted move in the eyes of everyone - despite the high costs both series would have easily made their money back with similar sales for additional seasons) I wouldn't worry too much. But if you want to be sure, buy the Blu-Ray set of season 1 and subscribe to HBO next season. No better way to ensure the survival than giving them money.
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Jul 25, 2011 06:12
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SmugDogMillionaire posted:55 million. That is good to hear. Though I still am a bit concerned, as the scale of the books do increase, resulting in more expenses. They could cheap out and do what they are doing now and showing little battles with a few people or skipping them altogether. On one hand it would increase the longevity of the show as less expense means the greater chance it would be renewed, but I would be disappointed if they scale things down or skipped things such as the battle of the Blackwater.
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Jul 25, 2011 06:19
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Fists Up posted:I hope theres a Penny POV in the next book. How does he go and add Penny when there are so many open threads that need to be tied up? What does Penny do for the story at all? Do you think there is a single reader of the series out there who actually likes Penny or looks forward to her scenes? After building Tyrion into a hero with the Battle of the Blackwater, GRRM makes him into a pig riding joke. I still thought ADWD was pretty good, but GRRM really needs an editor who is not afraid to tear his poo poo up.
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Jul 25, 2011 06:27
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It thought it was pretty poignant that Tyrion was humbled enough and desperate enough to ride the pig in the end, the thing he didn't stoop down to when commanded by Joffrey. As said, I liked his fall from powerful noble to slave quite a bit - I just found it too long and Tyrion a bit too sullen to be as entertaining as Tyrion chapters of old. I also didn't mind Penny (I actually like her far more than Shae), since she gave him and us a bit of a perspective how dwarfs are treated if they don't have the most powerful Lord as father and lots of money to throw around. I don't mind if he ditches her (somewhere nice) next book however, since she played her role. Edit: I agree however with the editor thing. It's not as bad as Patrick Rothfuss or Steven Erikson (in parts), but there are a lot of stuff that could have used a tightening up (same with AFFC). But that's something that's sadly all-too-common in the genre. Author becomes bestseller, publisher doesn't want to lose him and ceases any editorial control, author is allowed to keep any stuff in, you get books that are 20 % too long. But the basic storylines are very sound and solid in my opinion, even if I don't like where some are going (Dany). Decius fucked around with this message at 06:59 on Jul 25, 2011 |
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Jul 25, 2011 06:49
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Decius posted:It thought it was pretty poignant that Tyrion was humbled enough and desperate enough to ride the pig in the end, the thing he didn't stoop down to when commanded by Joffrey. As said, I liked his fall from powerful noble to slave quite a bit - I just found it too long and Tyrion a bit too sullen to be as entertaining as Tyrion chapters of old. I also didn't mind Penny (I actually like her far more than Shae), since she gave him and us a bit of a perspective how dwarfs are treated if they don't have the most powerful Lord as father and lots of money to throw around. I don't mind if he ditches her (somewhere nice) next book however, since she played her role. I thought his fall was better illustrated by his wiping yellow poo poo off of his master's giant rear end cheeks. As for giving perspective on the treatment of dwarves--yes, that seems to be what GRRM was going for. But how is that at all relevant to anything? It's not as if dwarves are common or culturally/socially significant to Westeros. The only significance of dwarves to the series, at all, is the fact that Tyrion is a dwarf. And Tyrion has never experienced this treatment because he is a Lannister. So it adds nothing to his characterization to see how other dwarves are treated. It just seems completely unnecessary.
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Jul 25, 2011 06:58
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hypocrite lecteur posted:He's a bad writer and incapable of building dramatic tension other than "IS YOUR FAVOURITE CHARACTER DEAD? BUY MY NEXT BOOK AND FIND OUT!" if you don't like it at this point pull the cord on the series bro Yeah, especially in these last two books, he's become over-reliant on predictable cliff-hangers. But this poo poo is still better than most of the other modern fantasy out there.
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Jul 25, 2011 07:55
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Fists Up posted:I hope theres a Penny POV in the next book. Hopefully as A prologue or epilogue.
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Jul 25, 2011 08:34
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Doibhilin posted:After building Tyrion into a hero with the Battle of the Blackwater, GRRM makes him into a pig riding joke. This is actually why I love ASOIAF. It's an unconventional story like that. Maybe GRRM is becoming too predictably unconventional, but I'm still eating it up. I really hope Jon is permanently dead. I thought GRRM had guts when he killed Ned off in AGOT. If he waits five books to kill a character he's been building up to be the ultimate hero of the story, that would just hit the spot for me.
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Jul 25, 2011 08:43
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KillRoy posted:Hopefully as A prologue or epilogue. Hopefully it'll be just one paragraph of her getting squashed by a falling knight or something.
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Jul 25, 2011 08:44
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Lyon posted:I got the impression that Melisandre was saying Bran served the other and was the enemy or something but it's been so long since I've read all these books I kind of forget. considering how bad melisandre has been at interpreting her visions I wouldn't read too much into her thinking that Bran and co serve the great Other.
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Jul 25, 2011 09:15
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Of course they serve the Other, because the Other is just anybody with magic who isn't the fire god. They don't serve the fire god, ergo they serve the other. The Drowned priests also serve the other, as do those maesters who can do magic, the septons, the children of the forest, the others, the warlocks, the maegi, literally everyone who isn't a red priest or their follower is pigeonholed by the red priests as demon worshipers. Or if they are feeling charitable, deluded tree worshiping saps.
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Jul 25, 2011 09:53
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Caufman posted:I really hope Jon is permanently dead. I thought GRRM had guts when he killed Ned off in AGOT. If he waits five books to kill a character he's been building up to be the ultimate hero of the story, that would just hit the spot for me.
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Jul 25, 2011 10:13
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Doibhilin posted:How does he go and add Penny when there are so many open threads that need to be tied up? quote:What does Penny do for the story at all? Do you think there is a single reader of the series out there who actually likes Penny or looks forward to her scenes? After building Tyrion into a hero with the Battle of the Blackwater, GRRM makes him into a pig riding joke. I still thought ADWD was pretty good, but GRRM really needs an editor who is not afraid to tear his poo poo up. Tyrion has been a consistent badass since book 1, and despite him continuously repeating that "I get no respect 'cause I'm a dwarf" we've never really seen that - from AGoT to ASoS he's always wielded power, and has often been disliked by lots of people but never really *despised*. Cersei was perhaps the only person that treated him like the poo poo he said he felt like; arguably Shae too, and she hid it. Now that he's really got nothing but his wits to go with, Penny serves as a (rather blunt, I'll agree) reminder of what dwarfdom entails. I'm not sure she was indispensable to that purpose, but Tyrion definitely needed a non-Jorah companion to talk to, and someone with such a diametrically opposite worldview to his is as good a choice as any.
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Jul 25, 2011 11:03
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Simon Draskovic posted:I really liked him, too. It's pretty obvious that even if the Iron Bank doesn't generally charge usurious rates and act as loan sharks, they are stone loving cold bastards when it comes to people who can't or won't pay them back. The banker has this sort of quiet conviction in the knowledge that he speaks for an incredibly powerful institution, the kind that doesn't take 'No' for an answer, and is really holding himself above all these petty Westerosi squabbles. Masters Valiant and Balk... yeah, the Banker was awesome I also pitied the dragons, even Drogon. All they want is their mommy.  Dany is a pretty bad queen and a horrible mother. EDIT: Seriously, what a retard. You have dragons and you don't even need them full sized to conquer Westeros. Go to Westeros with the Golden company and Unsullied and rest of your army. Return ten years later with a massive full grown dragon army and the resources of a continent at your back and end the slave trade overnight by threatening to burn every slave trader if they continue. Burn the dothraki too if they try to gently caress with you. DarkCrawler fucked around with this message at 14:29 on Jul 25, 2011 |
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Jul 25, 2011 13:26
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NihilCredo posted:Cersei was perhaps the only person that treated him like the poo poo he said he felt like; arguably Shae too, and she hid it. And Catelyn, and his father, and he just generally never gets any credit for any of the stuff he pulls off... Penny really just wasn't necessary.
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Jul 25, 2011 14:30
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The last two books could have been one if he'd shortened the Mereen plotline and cut out a bunch of unnecessary POVs. I think he included several POVs of really tangential stuff like the Iron Islands and Brienne wandering around because he likes writing about his world. I do wonder if it would have taken nine years for it to come out, though, if he'd waited to finish the whole thing.
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Jul 25, 2011 14:42
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Ecco the Dolphin posted:And Catelyn, and his father, and he just generally never gets any credit for any of the stuff he pulls off... Penny really just wasn't necessary. Both still treat him like a noble. Sude, One they didn't like much, but still As a noble. There is a world of a diiference between how Tyrion is treated there and how Yollo the Dwarf is treated or Penny, Even if she doesn't notice it, or pretends not to. Decius fucked around with this message at 15:01 on Jul 25, 2011 |
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Jul 25, 2011 14:50
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Oh yeah, and anyone here who doesn't think that Aegon/Young Griff is actually Aegon? Remember, the Golden Company is full of descendants of silver-haired Targaryen bastards (Daemon's five sons, Aerion, rest of the Blackfyre pretenders over the years). Varys and Illyrio probably had one lying around somewhere. The way he was just introduced seemed waaayyy too easy for me.
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Jul 25, 2011 15:21
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I finished it yesterday and I liked it. Much better than feast for crows but I guess that isnt saying much. Some of the dany chapters were ok i thought. The problem is i dont think anyone cares about mereen or the slaves or her "children". i dont know if the problem is that dany is supposed to be 13/14 years old or just bad writing. The frey pie story and the rat cook was pretty awesome. I though the theon/bolton story was really good though. They actually made me feel sorry for Theon.
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Jul 25, 2011 15:46
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EC posted:I'm very curious as to how he's planning on paying all of that gold to the company. 100 thousand golden dragons? Yowza. He's going to use the mercs to gain a position of power, then send all his debtors to die against a superior enemy force. If they get slain, cool, no more debt. If they win, well, there's the plunder to pay them.
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Jul 25, 2011 15:46
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Ambiguatron posted:The last two books could have been one if he'd shortened the Mereen plotline and cut out a bunch of unnecessary POVs. I think he included several POVs of really tangential stuff like the Iron Islands and Brienne wandering around because he likes writing about his world. I do wonder if it would have taken nine years for it to come out, though, if he'd waited to finish the whole thing. I think this post is right on. I feel like GRRM is becoming too obsessed with creating a huge world and having a back story for every drat character than actually moving the plot along. For example, in the only Jaime chapter in the entire book, we read more about the history of the Bracken and Blackwood houses than what Jaime actually does. The Brienne chapters until the end only seemed to serve the purpose of telling us about Maidenpool, Duskendale and Crackclaw Point. I feel like Davos' upcoming trip to Skagos and Dany possibly going to Asshai is going to be more of the same aimless wandering and endless descriptions of 'local culture'.
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Jul 25, 2011 16:19
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Arturo Ui posted:I think this post is right on. I feel like GRRM is becoming too obsessed with creating a huge world and having a back story for every drat character than actually moving the plot along. For example, in the only Jaime chapter in the entire book, we read more about the history of the Bracken and Blackwood houses than what Jaime actually does. Yeah, I'm the first to defend his world building and that history was still awesome and interesting, but that one got pretty ridiculous. Not sure why that chapter was in the books at all, it might have served as the opening Jaime chapter in AWOW but seemed like an completely useless addition here.
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Jul 25, 2011 16:24
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DarkCrawler posted:Yeah, I'm the first to defend his world building and that history was still awesome and interesting, but that one got pretty ridiculous. Not sure why that chapter was in the books at all, it might have served as the opening Jaime chapter in AWOW but seemed like an completely useless addition here. C'mon, think how awesome it'll be when Bran gets hold of that massive gently caress-off weirwood and its vast flock of ravens sometime around 2035
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Jul 25, 2011 16:27
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DarkCrawler posted:Yeah, I'm the first to defend his world building and that history was still awesome and interesting, but that one got pretty ridiculous. Not sure why that chapter was in the books at all, it might have served as the opening Jaime chapter in AWOW but seemed like an completely useless addition here.  Bittersteel and Bloodraven were the sons of Bracken and Blackwood mothers, respectively. The passage explains quite a bit about why the chips fell that particular way during the Blackfyre Rebellion
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Jul 25, 2011 16:46
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Right but honestly who gives a gently caress now? A little taste of it is interesting sure but we aren't reading books about the blackfyre rebellion we are reading about the Prince that was Promised
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Jul 25, 2011 16:55
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DarkCrawler posted:Yeah, I'm the first to defend his world building and that history was still awesome and interesting, but that one got pretty ridiculous. Not sure why that chapter was in the books at all, it might have served as the opening Jaime chapter in AWOW but seemed like an completely useless addition here. The point was to flesh out Bloodraven's history, but it was still unnecessary. I seriously wonder what percent of readers know who the gently caress Bloodraven is besides some guy from history that gets mentioned and what percentage of those connect it with the history lesson from that chapter. edit: the most relevant information was that Bloodraven's family has a history of warging and you could probably guess something along those lines from the fact that hes currently a tree SmugDogMillionaire fucked around with this message at 17:17 on Jul 25, 2011 |
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Jul 25, 2011 17:12
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