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"nipples on a breastplate" or variants thereof: AGOT: 0 ACOK: 1 ASOS: 1 AFFC: 2 ADWD: 2 Color me surprised. I guess the phrase stuck out so much to me that it seemed like it was the go-to phrase for "useless" every time. Also, I cannot read "Wun Weg Wun Dar Wun" without cracking up every time. It's like Kin Corn Karn from Pro Wrestling. deadjb fucked around with this message at 02:40 on Jul 27, 2011 |
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Jul 27, 2011 02:27
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I'm betting that your "nipples on a breastplate" count doesn't count the nipples on Skahaz's breastplate(the ones with the nipple-rings), though.
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Jul 27, 2011 02:32
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Mr. Safe posted:I'm betting that your "nipples on a breastplate" count doesn't count the nipples on Skahaz's breastplate(the ones with the nipple-rings), though. Weren't those Jorah's? Like, when after he rummaged through garbage for his armor?
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Jul 27, 2011 02:41
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Kainser posted:There is another (supposedly) Targaryen claimant with a stronger claim conveniently hanging out in the Stormlands who Doran easily could choose to support instead after something like this You gotta figure something like this will go down with all the scenes where one character reminds the other that Parent-Child succession trumps Sibling succession.
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Jul 27, 2011 02:47
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Welp, I figured out the mystery of Ramsay's letter to Jon: Mance sent it.Mance, disguised as Rattleshirt posted:Rattleshirt tapped the ruby on his wrist. “Ask your red witch, bastard.” The Infamous Letter posted:Bastard, was the only word written outside the scroll. No Lord Snow or Jon Snow or Lord Commander. Simply Bastard. And the letter was sealed with a smear of hard pink wax. “You were right to come at once,” Jon said. You were right to be afraid. He cracked the seal, flattened the parchment, and read. Okay so maybe not conclusive, and I still think it's Ramsay lying his rear end off, but it's an interesting possibility. Re-reading the book and the language in Jon's chapter where Rattleshirt speaks those lines above just struck me as in-line with the letter's language. Why would Ramsay want Val? Why would Ramsay want Mance's son? How does he even know about them, and why would he care? Why would Mance send the letter? One possibility that I'm pulling straight from my rear end: he got into the rookery during the confusion and sent the raven with the intention of getting Jon + wildlings to come help Stannis. It would never happen if someone asked Jon to come, he had to be baited into it and so did the wildlings. Anyway, sort of a dumb theory, but interesting in my mind. Another thing: the Winterfell Murder Mystery! Anyone have any thoughts? I'm pretty sure it's Manderly's peoples, but I like the idea of an original Winterfell inhabitant hiding out in the crypts or something. That whole scene with Lady Dustin and Theon in the crypts just screams something deeper to me. How the doors are closed when we know the last people there didn't close them, how they (Dustin and Theon) specifically mention deeper levels of the crypts but don't go down. How it's mentioned how much warmer the crypts are than outside - and the deeper levels would be warmer still, presumably.
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Jul 27, 2011 02:56
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Heh, someone went and added a bunch of terrible sigils to some noble house pages on gameofthrones.wikia.com: http://gameofthrones.wikia.com/wiki/Special:NewFiles Example:  
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Jul 27, 2011 03:03
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Not to mention that Ramsay hates the word "bastard" (as mentioned a couple times in Theon's chapters) and would likely avoid using it that bluntly and often.
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Jul 27, 2011 03:09
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Ray_ posted:Welp, I figured out the mystery of Ramsay's letter to Jon: Mance sent it. Good theories. Also the letter was not sealed with a signet ring. An interesting and conclusive fact, or a red herring?
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Jul 27, 2011 03:12
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I re-read the Tower of Joy flashback from Game of Thrones today. I know that it's important to the theory that Jon is Rhaegar and Lyanna's son. The thing that really struck me, which I didn't catch the first time, is that Ned seems to be interrogating the Kingsguard about why they are there protecting his sister. (This has probably been discussed endlessly here so forgive me, but most of the discussions I've read focus on how she's likely in childbirth and the promise Ned makes.) He goes through Aerys and his heirs, implicitly asking why these three knights weren't with them--thought I'd see you on the Trident (Rhaegar); Jamie killed the King (Aerys); Ser Darry is heading to Pentos with Viserys and Dany. I totally missed this the first time around--I think Ned is legitimately confused by their presence at the Tower of Joy. After Rhaegar is dead, why protect his rape victim? These seem like pretty good guys. And then this. quote:“Ser Willem Darry is fled to Dragonstone, with your queen and Prince Viserys. I thought you might have sailed with him.” At this point Ned has established that Aerys, Rhaegar, and Rhaegar's children are dead. In other words, Viserys should be king (assuming they all believe Aegon is really dead). And yet going with Viserys would be "flee[ing]" for a member of the Kingsguard? They can't go with Viserys because they "swore a vow"? Doesn't that strongly imply that Viserys is not the king, and that they have remained behind to guard the king? Re-reading this, I am convinced that Jon Snow is the son of Rhaegar and Lyanna, and that at some point Rhaegar and Lyanna were married--or somehow Jon was legitimated. And to tie this into ADWD--when Bran is watching Ned from the weirwood, Ned says he wants "them" to be raised "like brothers." I know this is ambiguous, but if Jon were Ned's son, I don't think he would say he wants Jon and Robb to be "like brothers"--they would be brothers. Bluebrick62 fucked around with this message at 03:33 on Jul 27, 2011 |
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Jul 27, 2011 03:30
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Ray_ posted:Welp, I figured out the mystery of Ramsay's letter to Jon: Mance sent it. Why would Mance be sending a letter for Val and Mance's son if he is in peril? Furthermore, how would he know anything about how highly Ramsay values 'his Reek'? What I think more likely is that Ramsay captured Mance, tortured the gently caress out of him and now wants to do the same to everyone he's felt wronged him. Why? Because he's a sociopath. And re: the use of the word bastard, didn't Ramsay just hate having that word used in relation to him? That he stresses Trueborn Lord of Winterfell seems to be another clue that it was Ramsay who wrote the letter. Also, I think if Mance was trying to lure Jon down, he would've passed himself off as Roose Bolton, not Ramsay. Unless there's some protocol where the Lord of a castle takes precedence over his father. Even still, it seems that Ramsay is very much subordinate to Roose. As for the murder mystery, I think it was Mance and his ladies at first, and then Manderly decided to seize the moment and extract some more revenge. When they killed the one Frey kid, the ladies kept insisting that his death 'wasn't one of theirs.' quote:Good theories. Also the letter was not sealed with a signet ring. An interesting and conclusive fact, or a red herring? I'm pretty sure that the other time there was a Bolton missive (when they were taking Moat Caitlin) it was described as simply being pink wax with a few drops of red. Which is probably a strong indicator that it the letter is actually from Ramsay. Perdido fucked around with this message at 05:30 on Jul 27, 2011 |
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Jul 27, 2011 05:24
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euphronius posted:Good theories. Also the letter was not sealed with a signet ring. An interesting and conclusive fact, or a red herring? I think there are a number of interesting theories about the authorship of the letter, but the primary thing that hangs me up on it being anybody other than Ramsay is the way it refers to Reek near the end. "I want my Reek back" -- it just sounds so dead-on personal. I'm not sure Mance could have picked up on that subtlety based on his ability to observe Theon and Ramsay at Winterfell alone.
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Jul 27, 2011 05:30
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Brannock posted:Not to mention that Ramsay hates the word "bastard" (as mentioned a couple times in Theon's chapters) and would likely avoid using it that bluntly and often. All the more reason for him to use the word in reference to Jon Snow who remains a bastard. Possible self-hatred projecting there as well. Unlike Tyrion, who bonds with Jon Snow due to their social positions, Ramsay will in no way identify with Snow, especially since he is no longer a bastard.
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Jul 27, 2011 05:30
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Decius posted:No, Hordor doesn't die (yet), this was just a German reviewer who apparently overestimated his language skills. I liked the suggestion that the Mystery Knight might be bloodraven - Lyanna has always made the most sense - but the idea that bran might still become a knight (even for a short while) is a powerful one. Aaaaanyway. Guess I'll go read the Egg novels. All i remember is some poo poo about a stream and some angry lady, and it felt like a TV show episode where Egg and the gang need to solve the mystery of the dried up stream.
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Jul 27, 2011 05:35
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kcroy posted:Aaaaanyway. Guess I'll go read the Egg novels. All i remember is some poo poo about a stream and some angry lady, and it felt like a TV show episode where Egg and the gang need to solve the mystery of the dried up stream. Other: "And I would've gotten away with it too, if it weren't for you meddling kids!"
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Jul 27, 2011 05:37
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kcroy posted:I liked the suggestion that the Mystery Knight might be bloodraven - Lyanna has always made the most sense - I still don't get this. Why is it that Lyanna makes more sense than Howland? Is it because Rhaegar said he couldn't find him? edit: Wait, are we talking about the Mystery Knight or The Knight of the Laughing Tree? Solice Kirsk fucked around with this message at 05:48 on Jul 27, 2011 |
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Jul 27, 2011 05:44
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Mance writing the letter doesn't make sense. Last we saw, the spearwives appeared to be all dead or otherwise hosed in their breakout of Jeyne. Abel aka Mance has presumably either fled Winterfell or has been captured. If he fled, how did he get a raven and pink sealing wax? Did he make it to Stannis's camp then? But that makes no sense. Not to mention, Jon Snow already got a raven from Ramsay Bolton before, and would presumably recognize if the letter wasn't his handwriting.
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Jul 27, 2011 05:59
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Ray_ posted:Welp, I figured out the mystery of Ramsay's letter to Jon: Mance sent it. Possible, even something I would like to see, but I have no idea to what end Mance would do it. Although I wouldn't really base it on the use of "Bastard". Even over in Essos Jon Snow is known as the "Black Bastard on the Wall" as we saw in a Arya chapter. Solice Kirsk posted:I still don't get this. Why is it that Lyanna makes more sense than Howland? Is it because Rhaegar said he couldn't find him? She was trained in the use of lance and jousting, Howland Reed was reportedly really terrible at it, as he hardly has used a horse before. Also it works as event that raised Rhaegar's interest in her. But either theory seems possible to me. Decius fucked around with this message at 06:13 on Jul 27, 2011 |
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Jul 27, 2011 06:09
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Dear page 913 of ADWD, gently caress you!!!
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Jul 27, 2011 06:22
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Decius posted:She was trained in the use of lance and jousting, Howland Reed was reportedly really terrible at it, as he hardly has used a horse before. Also it works as event that raised Rhaegar's interest in her. But either theory seems possible to me. Lets just split the difference and say that Howland warged into Lyanna. There. Mystery solved!
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Jul 27, 2011 06:27
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kcroy posted:I liked the suggestion that the Mystery Knight might be bloodraven - Lyanna has always made the most sense - but the idea that bran might still become a knight (even for a short while) is a powerful one. Holy gently caress. That would explain a lot. Howland Reed sure as poo poo didn't have the fighting prowess to win that tourney, but he did visit the Isle of Faces (aka Weirwood Central). Added to that, the Knight of the Laughing Tree's insignia was a weirwood, he vanished mysteriously and left his shield hanging from a weirwood, and we just learned that Bloodraven can warg into weirwoods or some crazy poo poo. Bloodraven was a skilled knight back in the day, right? Maybe he warged into a consenting Howland Reed in order to kick some rear end after Reed got beat up by some squires. Or, y'know, Lyanna did it (and is a secret targ). Le Fucker d'Absolut will probably never get around to telling us.
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Jul 27, 2011 07:36
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Doibhilin posted:I re-read the Tower of Joy flashback from Game of Thrones today. I know that it's important to the theory that Jon is Rhaegar and Lyanna's son. The thing that really struck me, which I didn't catch the first time, is that Ned seems to be interrogating the Kingsguard about why they are there protecting his sister. (This has probably been discussed endlessly here so forgive me, but most of the discussions I've read focus on how she's likely in childbirth and the promise Ned makes.) I've always favored the theory that Lyanna was willingly with Rhaegar. Ned found the child after killing the remaining Kingsguard and choose to remain quiet about it, especially to Robert. He gives Robert the name Wylla as a lie because that was baby Jon's wet nurse while being guarded by the Daynes. I don't recall exactly when Rhaegar "kidnapped" Lyanna but I think it works out chronologically. That would be what the "Promise me, Ned." nonsense was about in the first book.
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Jul 27, 2011 07:44
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Kainser posted:I wonder who they will cast as Daario, the bluebearded Casanova, in the show  I just want to punch him. very hard.
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Jul 27, 2011 08:13
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Linguica posted:Mance writing the letter doesn't make sense. Last we saw, the spearwives appeared to be all dead or otherwise hosed in their breakout of Jeyne. Abel aka Mance has presumably either fled Winterfell or has been captured. If he fled, how did he get a raven and pink sealing wax? Did he make it to Stannis's camp then? But that makes no sense. Not to mention, Jon Snow already got a raven from Ramsay Bolton before, and would presumably recognize if the letter wasn't his handwriting. To add to this. It wouldn't make sense logistically. If Abel was at the rookery writing the letter while Theon was breaking out the raven would've gotten to the wall much earlier. The letter arrives atleast 7 days after the day Theon runs. Since they killed Abel's whores, they'd definitely start looking for Abel so it can't possibly be Mance. Although I do feel that if it was actually written by Ramsay, he'd include some of Mance's skin like he did with Theon. I can't imagine it being written by anyone else though. Delita fucked around with this message at 08:24 on Jul 27, 2011 |
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Jul 27, 2011 08:22
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Unless Mance got away as well and he's lying about that too.
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Jul 27, 2011 08:29
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On 'what Arya might do', when Jaqen H'ghar repaid her debt that indicates that faceless men have a belief about the balance of life and death 'three were saved, three may die'. So when they find out people in Westeros are raising the dead (R'hllor, Qyburn) they may take this as a crime against their god of death which needs to be corrected which would lead to two excellent plot set ups: - Arya killing zombie Gregor in single combat - Arya being asked to kill zombie cat then freaking out and running off and going rogue to do more awesome stuff
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Jul 27, 2011 08:32
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Macdeo Lurjtux posted:You gotta figure something like this will go down with all the scenes where one character reminds the other that Parent-Child succession trumps Sibling succession. I apologize if this is sacriledge and i fully admit not reading the first books (Dance with dragons is the first one i have read) so i might be missing something obvious, but i don't see very strong ties for Dany to Westeros. She has never herself set foot on the continent as she was born on a ship that was fleeing and she knows literally no-one there. All there is is her families historical ties. Her ties to the free cities and slavers bay seem stronger at the moment. She spent her entire childhood wandering the free cities, she spent a great deal of her adolescence traveling the Dothraki sea and now consider's herself mother (and is considered mother by) all the freed slaves not just in Mereen but as far as Volantis (The window in volantis says "tell her we are waiting, tell her to come soon") It seems like setup is for Aegon to rule on the Iron throne as the Prince who was promised while Dany continues to wage her crusade (perhaps fulling the stallion who mounts the world prophecy).
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Jul 27, 2011 08:50
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There's pretty much no way Aegon's gonna live to accomplish much. I very, very strongly doubt he'll live more than halfway through book 6 assuming it ever loving comes out.
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Jul 27, 2011 09:01
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Just finished the thread, wanted to share some of my modest thoughts: Meerneese knot: I know most people hated on this. To be honest I did too. I just thought it was such a huge step backward for Dany as a character. I kept making excuses for her. "Shes just a teenager" "This is a growing experience for her" "She'll come around" Then I remembered:
Phew. I honestly didn't mean to write that much about that. Anyway, Aegon: At first I was annoyed by the sudden appearance of a perfect prince with a golden army with the choicest claim to the iron throne. Then I realized that this is GRRM and we have 2 more books (we hope) and he is most certainly destined for failure. (I hope). Tyrion: I enjoyed Huck Finn. Agreed on the idea that this was allll one long cocktease. It was also interesting to see the difference in POV between Tyrion and Dany vis a vis the Yunkish Army and Brown Ben. Also, whoever said this reminded them of heart of darkness  Quentyn:  Grab Bag
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Jul 27, 2011 09:17
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Yeah, Dany has no complications about nailing hundred people on loving crosses and let them die in agony for days, but he can't take a man from every major house and do the same two times when her rule over the city is threatened? If I was Dany, I'd let Shavepate rule with an iron hand, Barristan and Grey Worm focus on war and spend all my days training my motherfucking dragons so even if all else failed I could wipe any army who would dare to march against me off the map. It wouldn't make for much of an interesting book, but it all made me really frustrated.
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Jul 27, 2011 09:44
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Ray_ posted:Welp, I figured out the mystery of Ramsay's letter to Jon: Mance sent it. Also behind this theory, with the added evidence that the letter wasn't written in blood, like all of Ramsay's other letters in this book. My crazier theories:
-Just as the Old Gods need weirwood trees to see out of, the followers of the red god can only maintain their powers of prophecy where people keep fires burning. This accounts for why Melisandre is unable to get good info on Stannis, as the winter snows have severely limited his army's ability to keep fires going. -Similarly, the followers of the Drowned God are limited in their prophecy by those who have drowned, and been reborn. Patchface may not understand it, but his eyes are not his own. -The "gods" are real, but totally uncaring. It's only their followers that give intent to how their derivative powers are used. The "Old Gods" are the most direct example of this, being literally trees. It's only when humans or Children of the Forest warg into them that anything they have experienced is given context and meaning. The trees just want to be trees. The Old Gods don't demand human sacrifice, but they're not opposed to it either; blood and bone make good fertilizer. -The Seven then, aren't "real" like the other gods that seem to have power, but because they're purely human creations, they're the easiest to relate to for the average person. The only thing they require are what other humans say they require, usually keeping to social norms, and mores. The seven will never give you a magic sword, but they require no blood sacrifice either. -Varys and Illyrio seem to profess wanting a Targ on the throne, but is that their real goal? Given what the Valeryian and Targaryen empires did to those that they ruled, why would two people who came out of that horror want them back in power? What if their machinations aren't trying to bring a rightful ruler back to Westeros, but instead trying to get the last few pureborn Targs to destroy themselves, and their bloodline? -Less a theory, and more observation, but Jorah Mormont's enslavement is some nice irony since it was his selling poachers into slavery that got him exiled in the first place.
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Jul 27, 2011 09:51
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Maarak posted:Also behind this theory, with the added evidence that the letter wasn't written in blood, like all of Ramsay's other letters in this book. I always though the targs were quite good rulers with the exception of the last? The common folk liked the targs and they all loved Rhaegar. I would think that after a number of years they have ensured that Aegon or even Dany will not end up as insane as Aerys and has been raised to be more like Rhaegar.
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Jul 27, 2011 10:24
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Fists Up posted:I always though the targs were quite good rulers with the exception of the last? I thinking more from exclusively Varys's perspective. He seems to have been born a slave, been made into a eunuch to fuel magic, and made a living as a killer and thief in the free cities before crossing over to Westeros. A line of rulers with magically infused blood, who can command dragons, and previously enslaved much of the world would seem to run counter to what he values in life. As a trusted adviser to Aerys, he fueled the king's paranoia till most of the realm rose against him. As adviser to Robert, he helped dispatch killers against Dany. The real issue with this theory is why Illyrio harbored the three Targs at all instead of just killing them while they lived under his roof if he is working with Varys, and Varys desire's the end of their line. Best I can reason, the two know that children of the dragon have allies still, and a death that was easy to connect to them would be their doom. I highly doubt they planned on hatched dragon eggs though.
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Jul 27, 2011 10:38
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Yeah, is the perfumed seneschal Varys?
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Jul 27, 2011 10:46
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CalvinandHobbes posted:I apologize if this is sacriledge and i fully admit not reading the first books (Dance with dragons is the first one i have read) so i might be missing something.. I don't even know what to say to this. EDIT: yes I do.. I'm curious if the book made any kind of sense? kcroy fucked around with this message at 11:23 on Jul 27, 2011 |
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Jul 27, 2011 11:10
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Barnum posted:I thought it was kind of great? Only a few chapters did that to me in this book, the rest seemed redundant. I enjoyed the Tyrion/Penny dynamic; his cynicism being met with naivety, being torn between disgust (due in part to his self-loathing) and compassion/sympathy. The Bran part was kinda lame, so he went to a cave in the north with the children, and there's this 1000 year old half-tree dude "I'll teach you to see through the trees", what good is that gonna do? How is he going to do anything useful with that? And we didn't get any cool lore about the first men or whatever. Dany was as always, pretty annoying when she should have been terrifying, paralyzed when circumstance called for action, whatever. Nothing new. Jon I felt was awful and self-righteous. It doesn't seem like he knows what he's doing and he managed to get stabbed, drat. He's probably not going to die, I'm betting he'll be saved by Melisandre and turned into the Jon Redsnow or something. Once again he has no skill or agency, he's just lucky and self-pitying (boo hoo, I'm a bastard, kill the child) Theon chapters were cool, much because he is 'a fly on the wall' because of his situation, and we get to observe the drama through his twisted mind. Barristan is cool. Mormont is cool. Jaime is cool. Obscure lore is cool. At the end of the day, in this book it feels like everyone is just a victim of circumstance, instead of doing stuff they're just reacting to stuff. Rhymenoceros fucked around with this message at 11:31 on Jul 27, 2011 |
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Jul 27, 2011 11:28
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Fists Up posted:I always though the targs were quite good rulers with the exception of the last? If you take the comments over the books I think you'd end up with 50:50 at best. Baelor the Blessed, Maegor the Cruel, Aegon the Unworthy, Aerys the Mad were apparently pretty lovely rulers. Maekar I wasn't even there basically, as Bloodraven did his job. There was a long streak of good rulership for nearly 30 years before Aerys though, with Aegon the Unlikely and Jaehaerys II.
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Jul 27, 2011 11:46
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Just finished reading ADWD in a day, just one more chapter and suddenly the sun is coming up and there's not much left, may as well keep reading and now it's 7 am and if there had been more pages to read I would have kept going. Admittedly I'm an insomniac so the lack of sleep is pretty normal but god damnit George, why do you do this to me. I just know that several of the story threads ended in fakeout mindfucks but with georgie boy at the helm you can never be too certain of which ones but poo poo has been set up really well to start hitting the fan no matter what, my only hope is I won't have to wait another decade or two like the poor bastards that started reading these books since the beginning. Poor Lord Snow... he knew nothing.
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Jul 27, 2011 12:22
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The great M posted:Jon: Jon was enjoyable enough, but dragged on a bit. Jon Dies sucks because if he's not dead it's a sucky cliffhanger, but if he is dead I don't give a poo poo about anything in the North anymore. After that glorious erection giving build up, to have that chapter end like that... I now only hope that The Winds of Winter is nothing more than a gory 1000 page account of the Others busting through the wall and killing EVERYONE in Westeros. Everyone, gently caress em. The great M posted:Victarion: Oh look another character trying to reach Dany. Wake me up when he arrives. Victarion's second chapter was the most awesome thing in the book. IMNSHO The great M posted:Jaime: Jamie: "Oh Hi Brienne, where've you been? How did you get out of that sticky situation?" Brienne: Oh come over here behind this building where the readers can't hear us and I'll tell you. Moatillata posted:Quentyn: And just when I thought the Oberyn shaped hole in my heart was about to be filled hellbastard fucked around with this message at 13:13 on Jul 27, 2011 |
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Jul 27, 2011 13:10
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hellbastard posted:And just when I thought the Oberyn shaped hole in my heart was about to be filled (Ok, I guess Obara might get to kill Darkstar and/or Balon Swann. But King's Landing is my favourite setting in the whole saga by a kilometre.)
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Jul 27, 2011 13:37
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CalvinandHobbes posted:I apologize if this is sacriledge and i fully admit not reading the first books (Dance with dragons is the first one i have read) so i might be missing something obvious, but i don't see very strong ties for Dany to Westeros. She has never herself set foot on the continent as she was born on a ship that was fleeing and she knows literally no-one there. All there is is her families historical ties. Her ties to the free cities and slavers bay seem stronger at the moment. She spent her entire childhood wandering the free cities, she spent a great deal of her adolescence traveling the Dothraki sea and now consider's herself mother (and is considered mother by) all the freed slaves not just in Mereen but as far as Volantis (The window in volantis says "tell her we are waiting, tell her to come soon") For someone who hasn't read the rest of the series, you have a better grip on Dany than so many people who have. Kudos. You're right, she has more ties to the Free Cities, more ties to Slaver's Bay and more ties to her freed slaves than to anyone in Westeros. She has no incentive to take the Iron Throne and plenty of reasons to stay where she is. You might take issue with GRRM for not having given her a reason to go yet, but I don't see how you can take issue with the character for not having gone already.
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Jul 27, 2011 13:48
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