|
Levitate posted:Are you making GBS threads me it took him 6 years to write another AFfC what the gently caress They are two halves of the same book, and AFFC was fantastic.
|
#
?
Jul 29, 2011 20:35
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 25, 2024 12:14 |
|
|
Levitate posted:Are you making GBS threads me it took him 6 years to write another AFfC what the gently caress In most people's opinions, this book was better than AFFC and some people claim it is arguably better than ACOK. You will just have to read it for yourself and draw your own conclusions. Edit: In my honest opinion the Dany and goony Tyrion chapters made this book a loving chore to read. Everything that doesn't involve those two is actually pretty good and almost nears the quality of SoS. Contra Calculus fucked around with this message at 21:28 on Jul 29, 2011 |
|
#
?
Jul 29, 2011 21:23
|
|
|
The Theon chapters alone redeem this book. Reading every one of those chapters was well worth skimming or skipping Dany and Tyrion's chapters.
|
|
#
?
Jul 29, 2011 22:20
|
|
|
Decius posted:That's however a pretty major point GRRM wants to make (and he does it quite well I think). The dialogue between Brienne and the Septon in AFFC is probably the best summary of the argument he tries to make. The whole resurgence of the armed faith/Sparrows is pretty much the only reaction that is left to the commoners. The church accepts them regardless of wealth and class, the church defends them no matter if they own property or are beggars, Tully, Stark or Lannister serfs and bannermen. do we findout why brienne lived? what was the word!
|
|
#
?
Jul 29, 2011 22:20
|
|
|
kcroy posted:do we findout why brienne lived? what was the word! That is the kind of thing we would learn in a book where stuff actually happens.
|
|
#
?
Jul 29, 2011 22:32
|
|
|
misread.
computer parts fucked around with this message at 22:40 on Jul 29, 2011 |
|
#
?
Jul 29, 2011 22:38
|
|
|
withak posted:That is the kind of thing we would learn in a book where stuff actually happens. Sword obviously. Need to be spoonfed anything else?
|
|
#
?
Jul 29, 2011 22:39
|
|
|
kcroy posted:do we findout why brienne lived? what was the word! Not even a hint really. I thought the Brienne part felt awkward and shoehorned. A major character whose fate we've been waiting to find out for 6 years, and she just sort of shows up with little fanfare and leaves with minimal dialogue. Contra Calculus posted:In my honest opinion the Dany and goony Tyrion chapters made this book a loving chore to read. Everything that doesn't involve those two is actually pretty good and almost nears the quality of SoS. This was one of the weird things about the book to me; for years a lot of people hypothesized one of the main reasons that AFFC was a letdown was because we didn't have Dany and Tyrion chapters. Then as it turns out Dany and Tyrion are a drag for most of this book, while the less prominent character POVs are mostly pretty interesting (who would have guessed Victarion would be great after the drag-rear end Iron Island chapters from AFFC).
|
|
#
?
Jul 29, 2011 22:40
|
|
|
withak posted:That is the kind of thing we would learn in a book where stuff actually happens. So... A Dance With Dragons? That's a book where stuff actually happens.
|
|
#
?
Jul 29, 2011 22:46
|
|
|
Dr. VonHugenstein posted:This was one of the weird things about the book to me; for years a lot of people hypothesized one of the main reasons that AFFC was a letdown was because we didn't have Dany and Tyrion chapters. Then as it turns out Dany and Tyrion are a drag for most of this book, while the less prominent character POVs are mostly pretty interesting (who would have guessed Victarion would be great after the drag-rear end Iron Island chapters from AFFC). Its clear at the end of Swords that Tyrion and Dany were going to be spinning their wheels for awhile. Tyrion's on the run and Dany's chilling in Mereen. If GRRM had skipped Dance and jumped right into Winds I think readers would have been able to connect the dots just fine. "Dany is a lovely ruler and Mereen is at war." "Tyrion fled across the sea where he was drawn to Mereen by stories of the Dragon Queen." There's at least five hundred pages of nothing summarized in two sentences.
|
|
#
?
Jul 29, 2011 22:56
|
|
|
Irish Joe posted:
Dany on the throne was as useful as nipples on a breastplate. Whilst she laughed at Daario's japes her serjeants prepared for Mereen's war with a mummer's fart of a diseased army. Tyrion, in his quest to find where whores go, wound up wearing rabbit ears, biding his time amongst the slaves and subsisting on neeps and onions.
|
|
#
?
Jul 29, 2011 23:17
|
|
|
VaultAggie posted:The Theon chapters alone redeem this book. Reading every one of those chapters was well worth skimming or skipping Dany and Tyrion's chapters. True enough, I just don't think we got enough Theon and other chapters. The majority of the book was Jon, Dany, and Tyrion. To be fair, I think the Tyrion chapters were starting to pick up again by the end when he was scheming with the sellswords and at least Dany is starting to actually suffer consequences for her actions so those are positive aspects of the book at least.
|
|
#
?
Jul 29, 2011 23:45
|
|
|
Any other fans of "Memory, Sorrow, Thorn" fans out there that noticed the allusions to it?
|
|
#
?
Jul 29, 2011 23:51
|
|
|
Irish Joe posted:Its clear at the end of Swords that Tyrion and Dany were going to be spinning their wheels for awhile. Tyrion's on the run and Dany's chilling in Mereen. If GRRM had skipped Dance and jumped right into Winds I think readers would have been able to connect the dots just fine. This is the whole bulletpoint thing. I don't even like fantasy writing that much, but i do understand a large part of the allure of the genre is the emphasis on foreign worlds and life as seen from a creative-speculative standpoint. So this series is a bit more realistically grounded, but we are being treated to further expansion of the world GURM built. While i don't adore fantasy, I do love complex and complete novels and if these books were without what you guys hate, each tome would be 200 completely unremarkable pages of the same poo poo you can find anywhere. Patience is not a word to be uttered in this thread but you fuckers want satisfying novels, and for them to be satisfying, you have to have what we now are reading. meanolmrcloud fucked around with this message at 00:11 on Jul 30, 2011 |
|
#
?
Jul 30, 2011 00:01
|
|
|
Holy gently caress, coveted NFL Football Player Nnamdi Asomugha signed with the Philadelphia Eagles instead of the NY JETS, author George R.R. Martin has massive coronary
|
|
#
?
Jul 30, 2011 00:05
|
|
|
I like the references he puts in the books for the most part, and while this one made me laugh a little it also broke MY IMMERSION:The Big Man posted:That dragon queen’s got the real item (Unsullied), the kind that don’t break and run when you fart in their general direction.”
|
|
#
?
Jul 30, 2011 01:12
|
|
|
VaultAggie posted:The Theon chapters alone redeem this book. Reading every one of those chapters was well worth skimming or skipping Dany and Tyrion's chapters. Victarion chapters owned for the first time in the series though.
|
|
#
?
Jul 30, 2011 01:19
|
|
|
Oh, definitely. Almost every POV that wasn't dany's or Tyrion's were great. Except, in my opinion, Arya's. I don't know where her arc is going and it's getting pretty boring at this point. Arya hasn't had any impact on the story in over two books.
|
|
#
?
Jul 30, 2011 01:32
|
|
|
VaultAggie posted:Oh, definitely. Almost every POV that wasn't dany's or Tyrion's were great. Except, in my opinion, Arya's. I don't know where her arc is going and it's getting pretty boring at this point. Arya hasn't had any impact on the story in over two books. Who cares? It's an interesting sideplot and she's the best character in the series.
|
|
#
?
Jul 30, 2011 01:43
|
|
|
Ray_ posted:Monty Python reference. Glad I'm not the only one who noticed that.
|
|
#
?
Jul 30, 2011 01:49
|
|
|
Neurosis posted:How does aiding the invasion of 40 000 Mongol-esque barbarians who understand no currency but rape and pillage fit into this vision of a peaceful Westeros? They fit pretty squarely on the ends of the 80,000 or so swords that would be arrayed to meet them. The Dothraki would have caused havoc, but I don't think they were ever a serious threat to Westeros. They're unarmored and fight with curved blades. How would they deal with armored knights? As for Varys killing Kevan, I didn't say Varys was a saint with only the best intentions at heart. If I spent 16 years raising a kid to be king, I'd probably be pretty invested in putting him on the throne too. He's not about to drop his plans just because suddenly Kevan might have some power and might do some short-term good. If anything that short-term good is a threat because it grants the Lannisters stability, as Varys says.
|
|
#
?
Jul 30, 2011 03:01
|
|
|
Doibhilin posted:They fit pretty squarely on the ends of the 80,000 or so swords that would be arrayed to meet them. The Dothraki would have caused havoc, but I don't think they were ever a serious threat to Westeros. They're unarmored and fight with curved blades. How would they deal with armored knights? I don't know about this. Most Westeroi soldiers aren't knights, they're untrained peasants, on foot, with limited armor. One Westeroi knight might be worth ten Dothraki horemen, but one Dothraki horseman is worth ten Westeroi footsoldiers. There's a reason everyone is Essos pretty much accepts that Dothraki can pillage wherever they want to, only thing to do is try to buy them off with gifts.
|
|
#
?
Jul 30, 2011 03:22
|
|
|
Eggnogium posted:I don't know about this. Most Westeroi soldiers aren't knights, they're untrained peasants, on foot, with limited armor. One Westeroi knight might be worth ten Dothraki horemen, but one Dothraki horseman is worth ten Westeroi footsoldiers. There's a reason everyone is Essos pretty much accepts that Dothraki can pillage wherever they want to, only thing to do is try to buy them off with gifts. But they would pose no threat whatsoever to anyone inside of a castle. Would a lot of peasants die? Yes. Would the Dothraki have any chance of actually conquering Westeros? No way. They would merely cause chaos that would allow Aegon to rise to power. And not to get too detailed, but it would be extremely difficult to kill an armored knight on horseback with a curved blade. It was hard to kill an armored knight with a longsword (to the point that, in reality, a combatant would often grip the blade of the sword and hit his armored opponent with the pommel to deliver blunt force to the head). A curved blade can't deliver force in a very focused way. (On that note, I think it's pretty telling that Robert used a hammer throughout his rebellion. A warhammer is designed for killing armored opponents--it's a pretty terrible weapon against unarmored opponents. Obviously knights have died throughout the series, but the threat is significantly lower to an armored knight than it is to an unarmored soldier and we've seen a lot of respect/hostage-taking between "high-born" fighters. Yet when Robert stepped on the battlefield he was clearly aiming to kill knights as efficiently as possible--motherfucking ruthless, as one should be if he's trying to overthrow a 300-year-old dynasty.)
|
|
#
?
Jul 30, 2011 03:38
|
|
|
kcroy posted:do we findout why brienne lived? what was the word! This is the kind of thing you should figure out from subtext in my opinion? Catelyn brought her back from the dead after she was hung.
|
|
#
?
Jul 30, 2011 05:46
|
|
|
Cryle posted:This is the kind of thing you should figure out from subtext in my opinion? Catelyn brought her back from the dead after she was hung. What, I don't know about that
|
|
#
?
Jul 30, 2011 05:56
|
|
|
Cryle posted:This is the kind of thing you should figure out from subtext in my opinion? Catelyn brought her back from the dead after she was hung. Don't you wish, it's not like Brienne is breaking any oaths by bringing Jaime to Cat.
|
|
#
?
Jul 30, 2011 06:12
|
|
|
Just finished ADWD, and man did it ever drag at points. It seemed like half the book was worse than AFFC and half was marginally better. I'm disappointed that all the Jon chapters was nothing but stupid samey bickering between him and Bowen, a half-assed version of the great political maneuvering we liked so much in the first three books. And then for Jon to eat it at the end before anything actually happened at the wall. And as everyone says, the Dany and Tyrion chapters could have been condensed down to at least half or less and they would still be meandering and boring. Also disappointed that Bran and Davos both disappeared halfway into the book. I was especially looking forward to more Davos but we never got that. Then the book just kind of ends in the middle of its climax. A cliffhanger is one thing, but man, talk about blueballs. Oddly enough, I'm worried most of all about the TV show. If they ever do get past ASOS, GRRM said it would be best if AFFC+ADWD were combined into 3 seasons,. I can't imagine how lovely it would be to have 3 seasons of nothing really interesting at all happening at either the Wall or Mereen (until the very end). That would kill viewership and the show.
|
|
#
?
Jul 30, 2011 06:34
|
|
|
I could see AFFC and ADWD combined into 1 season (would be better with 12 eps than 10), and reorganizing things slightly. Hell, the long uneventful flavor chapters (such as 99% of Brienne's stuff in AFFC, Dany failing to rule Meeeereeeen) could be reduced into a single episode each. Maybe 2 episodes for Dany in Meereen, one for when she gets there and all the samey bullshit, and another for ~The Meeereeneese Knot~.
|
|
#
?
Jul 30, 2011 06:50
|
|
|
Doibhilin posted:But they would pose no threat whatsoever to anyone inside of a castle. Would a lot of peasants die? Yes. Would the Dothraki have any chance of actually conquering Westeros? No way. They would merely cause chaos that would allow Aegon to rise to power.
|
|
#
?
Jul 30, 2011 07:18
|
|
|
Well that was an interesting read. I liked pretty much everything related to the north and hated everything related to the east (as in previous books). GRRM is in dire need of an editor who will stand up to him and tell him to cut down on his writing, this book should have been much shorter. I was thinking about the last daenerys chapter and this is how I interpreted it: She got pregnant because all conditions of the prophecy have been fulfilled: Sun sets in the east (= prince of Dorne dies in Mereen), Mountains blowing in the wind are pyramids that are literally crumbling because of the 2 dragons and they also represent the ancient power structures in Mereen that have been replaced with Baristan Selmy's council The sea running dry is the Dothraki sea running dry because of the coming winter.
|
|
#
?
Jul 30, 2011 07:40
|
|
|
Iggles posted:Didn't Jorah cover all of this in aGoT? Dothraki would kill knights with their awesome archery skills if the lords were foolish enough to meet them in combat. If they hide behind their castle it's fine for a while but wouldn't make them teribly popular rulers. And the smallfolk would all be dead/enslaved. Great plan to rule the now devastated and unpopulated kingdom. There's an amazing scene in the HBO series in which Robert and Cersei discuss the ramifications of a Dothraki invasion, and they bring up points like that. Probably my favorite scene in the series so far. It was nice to see Robert doing some actual thinking and being quite astute. Yeah, a knight may beat a screamer in melee, but there's much more to ruling than winning fights.
|
|
#
?
Jul 30, 2011 07:57
|
|
|
kanonvandekempen posted:I was thinking about the last daenerys chapter and this is how I interpreted it: She got pregnant because all conditions of the prophecy have been fulfilled: The 'prophecy' wasn't about her getting pregnant though. It was one of the conditions, alongside those you listed. The result of it, if you believe it, is that when all the conditions are met Drogo will return to normal. I still think it was just MMD being a douche and not a prophecy at all, but I guess we'll see.
|
|
#
?
Jul 30, 2011 08:00
|
|
|
One thing I just noticed; Barristan has a round table at his councils so all can talk as equals. Obviously GRRM doesn't want to subvert every trope as Barristan is essentially an older Arthur. I have no problem with this at all.
|
|
#
?
Jul 30, 2011 09:34
|
|
|
VaultAggie posted:Oh, definitely. Almost every POV that wasn't dany's or Tyrion's were great. Except, in my opinion, Arya's. I don't know where her arc is going and it's getting pretty boring at this point. Arya hasn't had any impact on the story in over two books. Quentyn.
|
|
#
?
Jul 30, 2011 10:00
|
|
|
Unoriginal Name posted:Quentyn. His fuckup caused the dragons to escape and destroy the master's pyramids. Rosscifer fucked around with this message at 10:09 on Jul 30, 2011 |
|
#
?
Jul 30, 2011 10:06
|
|
|
Hi. I enjoyed the book, it wasn't great at all times; but sometimes it was loving awesome. Sometimes it disappointed. That's my opinion. What novels don't ever disappoint?? Here's another opinion: If you skim or skip chapters, then you should shut the gently caress up. You're no better than people who listen to audiobooks (get read to like a child.) You get bored reading? Welcome to reading. It's not all Michael Bay explosions and lovely exposition that explains what you're too loving stupid to get. I enjoy the depth of the work and I relish finding out about stuff I missed. In the meantime, I read as closely as I know how; even if it seems boring. If I realize that I am losing concentration I go back and pick up where I lost focus. It didn't happen that often to me in this huge book, so I have no complaints. So it isn't perfect. It's what we have. Complain about deep stuff like why this character does something you think is not congruent to their established motivations. Maybe consider it's development. Give the author some credit. I am not talking about niggling poo poo like "words are wind" or "nipples on a breastplate" or whatever phrase sticks in your craw. But if you skim and skip and then pronounce judgement on the work as a whole, it's MY OPINION that you're loving too stupid or impatient to read. High standards are one thing. "I skipped all these chapters because they are stupid" is something entirely different. There are valid criticisms in this thread. Then there's endless moronic bitching. It's a novel. We read novels here. Don't hold this one to standards that no other novels (especially huge works in huge anthologies) don't live up to. Why would you do that??
|
|
#
?
Jul 30, 2011 10:37
|
|
|
Space Pussy posted:Victarion chapters owned for the first time in the series though.
|
|
#
?
Jul 30, 2011 11:32
|
|
|
Dr. Faustus posted:You're no better than people who listen to audiobooks (get read to like a child.) Audiobooks are bad? I personally can't stand them, but I know a lot of people that "read" books this way and can discuss them just fine.
|
|
#
?
Jul 30, 2011 12:46
|
|
|
EC posted:Audiobooks are bad? I personally can't stand them, but I know a lot of people that "read" books this way and can discuss them just fine. But then you're not really reading, maaaan.
|
|
#
?
Jul 30, 2011 12:54
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 25, 2024 12:14 |
|
|
Alright, finally finished reading this monster. I agree that it was too long and dragged at points, but I've kind of come to expect that from GRRM's writing. It seems to follow the same model that all of the other books do. You get a ton of descriptions about where people are and what they've been up to at the start of the chapter while they do something that seems irrelevant and then the last page of the chapter is a shocking cliffhanger that motivates you to read through the next POV to get back to that character, once again wading through descriptions of breastplates with nipples, lamphrey pies, and japes. I want to say I was surprised that Jon bit it, but killing off main characters has almost become a cliche in GRRM's books. I kind of think that the HBO guys knew about this and so decided to scrap the Tower of Joy plot because it was always just a red herring. My pet theory is that Jon warged into Ghost when he died and is going to head south and warg into a new, human body. I'm also thinking that the "of Fire" part of the books is most definitely in reference to the red priests. Those fuckers are everywhere. In fact, after all of GRRM's talk about how too much magic was a bad thing, there sure as hell was a ton of magic in this book. I know that magic returning to the world is part of the story, but it was getting a little bit ridiculous at points. Also, what the hell was the Meeereeeneeeseeee Knot? The only guy to actually get to Meereen was Quentyn. Victarion and Tyrion are close but doing their own things. When did this talk of an eighth book come about?
|
|
#
?
Jul 30, 2011 13:42
|
|
