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Here's the inevitable AJE and Guardian live blogs.
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Aug 3, 2011 08:30
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A TV image of Mubarak ambulance arriving at court: http://yfrog.com/h3y3anij A shot of a crowd watching the trial on a big screen http://twitpic.com/607ml4 Shots from inside the court room, from Egyptian TV http://yfrog.com/hs9xcusj http://yfrog.com/hsz1exij http://yfrog.com/kkc4rafj A picture of apparent clashes: http://twitpic.com/607qal Pictures of the crowd outside http://twitpic.com/607v65 http://twitpic.com/607t47 http://twitpic.com/607u3k http://twitpic.com/607v65 From Libya, here's a AJE report on the aftermath of yesterday's counterattack by Gaddafi forces in Zlitan: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UaV1SAeEvZ8
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Aug 3, 2011 08:44
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Al Jazeera English is streaming the trial live
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Aug 3, 2011 08:50
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Mubarak is in the court room, lying in a hospital bed. Not looking as frial as you'd expect for someone who keeps slipping in and out of comas and having strokes. Update from the Guardian: quote:I just spoke to the Guardian's Jack Shenker, who is in downtown Cairo. Jack covered the Egyptian revolution and was initially granted permission to be one of the few foreign journalists inside the courtroom before being access by the security services. Mubarak, exactly where he should be: 
Brown Moses fucked around with this message at 09:07 on Aug 3, 2011 |
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Aug 3, 2011 09:01
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Did anyone ever figure out if Mubarak really had 70 billion like it was claimed at the height of the protests ? http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/feb/04/hosni-mubarak-family-fortune It always seemed strange to me he was apparently the the second richest person in the world without ever appearing on any list of billionaires.
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Aug 3, 2011 09:26
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Brown Moses posted:
This is my new wallpaper  yes. YESSSSS. Al-Saqr fucked around with this message at 09:33 on Aug 3, 2011 |
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Aug 3, 2011 09:26
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It must be reassuring to know that even if somehow they get aquitted the crowd outside will be so enraged they'll probably just tear them apart.
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Aug 3, 2011 09:36
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Brown Moses posted:It must be reassuring to know that even if somehow they get aquitted the crowd outside will be so enraged they'll probably just tear them apart. Agreed. I too love when mob justice takes precedence over the proper legal system.
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Aug 3, 2011 10:24
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Bit of an update on the mood in Cairo:quote:Jack Shenker writes from Cairo. He says the centre of the city is pretty much a ghost town at the moment. Some of that is because it's Ramadan at the moment, when the streets are always quieter than normal, but it's also because there are so many people huddled around rickety TV sets in alleyway cafes or standing outside the windows of electronic shops staring at the screens within.
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Aug 3, 2011 10:57
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Haha, Mubarak and his sons deny all the charges, this is just grand.
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Aug 3, 2011 11:03
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Here's the Guardian round up for the morning:quote:Egypt
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Aug 3, 2011 12:53
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Mubarak will go back on trial on August 15th. Meanwhile, it looks like yesterday was a busy day in Libya for NATO quote:Sorties conducted 02 AUGUST: 123
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Aug 3, 2011 13:24
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quote:One lawyer claimed it was not Mubarak in the dock, but a clone, the real president having died in 2004. He asked for a DNA test to be carried out. Mubarak's lawyer, Ferid el-Deeb, has asked for 1,631 witnesses to be called. Another lawyer requested compensation from Mubarak for damage to Egypt's security because "God said in the Qur'an that Egypt is a safe place". A lawyer from the Egyptian treasury asked for 1bn Egyptian pounds (£102,427,578) in compensation from Mubarak. I... just...  Yeesh.
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Aug 3, 2011 13:30
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Pureauthor posted:I... just... Either Egyptian lawyers are just generally terrible or this is some plot to undermine the prosecution.
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Aug 3, 2011 13:33
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quote:The trial has at times been chaotic and even bizarre. One lawyer claimed it was not Mubarak in the dock, but a clone, the real president having died in 2004. He asked for a DNA test to be carried out. Mubarak's lawyer, Ferid el-Deeb, has asked for 1,631 witnesses to be called. Another lawyer requested compensation from Mubarak for damage to Egypt's security because "God said in the Qur'an that Egypt is a safe place". A lawyer from the Egyptian treasury asked for 1bn Egyptian pounds (£102,427,578) in compensation from Mubarak. Another lawyer said Mubarak and his sons had never had a criminal file created, pulled out an ink pad and demanded they be fingerprinted. There were 30 lawyers in the courtroom and the judge was asked to admit another 130 waiting outside. Jesus, this sounds more like a bad comedy than anything else. Why are there 160 lawyers involved? surely there should only be a handful, dealing with the charges on the table, not 160 "lawyers" making whatever batshit insane claims they wish. At this stage I think the best course of action would be to involve the ICC and hand Moob over to them.
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Aug 3, 2011 13:50
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Brown Moses posted:Meanwhile, it looks like yesterday was a busy day in Libya for NATO I guess they decided the hole they've been digging in Waddan is finally deep enough. That is quite a circus of lawyers involved in the Mubarak trial. I mean, I expected that it'd be a trial-of-the-century spectacle, but a lot of that sounds just plain weird.
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Aug 3, 2011 14:11
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Thundarr posted:I guess they decided the hole they've been digging in Waddan is finally deep enough. Someone must be having a laugh at whatever news agency reported this...seriously lawyers believing moob is a clone? Wanting compensation because the Koran said so? And I thought the silly charges put on Ben-Ali after he was found guilty of the only charges that mattered were crazy.
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Aug 3, 2011 14:15
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I think some things out to be cleared up about the Mubarak trial: In the trial, there were 4 main groups of lawyers, The first, are the defense lawyers, these are the guys representing Mubarak and his ilk, they are also the fellows who are trying any sort of ridiculous delaying tactic (the 1600 witnesses guy and them asking for tantawi to stand witness). The second are the prosecution, these were the people wearing green and red bands sitting to the left of the judge, these guys were the low-key people who factually stated the prosecutions charges (Murder, Profiteering, Corruption, Etc) The Third Group are the Civil Lawyers, mainly people who might represent individual protesters and their families or themselves, these were the people who called for Omar suleiman, and the snipers and other interior ministry people to be called to testify. included among them is that bizzare DNA testing and fingerprinting guys. and the final group are the nation or government lawyers, who called for monetary compensation (the 100 million pounds guys) just letting you know, that while some people are being ridiculous, the prosecution are the people who were the most calm, collected and prepared for the whole thing. so I'm not too concerned, although me and my Egyptian buddies are pretty sure that something nasty is cooking in the background.
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Aug 3, 2011 15:01
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Al-Saqr posted:I think some things out to be cleared up about the Mubarak trial: Why are they doing this all at once instead of having separate dates for the third and fourth group?
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Aug 3, 2011 15:15
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Jut posted:Why are they doing this all at once instead of having separate dates for the third and fourth group? From the over-the-top security to the giant cage to Mubarak testifying from a hospital bed, this is all supposed to be a giant spectacle.
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Aug 3, 2011 15:42
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Brown Moses posted:Al Jazeera English is streaming the trial live I wonder how that happened. Last I heard, the government completely banned al-Jazeera from observing the trial.
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Aug 3, 2011 16:20
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Xandu posted:I wonder how that happened. Last I heard, the government completely banned al-Jazeera from observing the trial. Who can resist the winning smiles of Ayman Mohyeldin and Sherine Tadros?
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Aug 3, 2011 16:29
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Finlander posted:Either Egyptian lawyers are just generally terrible or this is some plot to undermine the prosecution. Well, in the national exam that determines where you will go to university and what it is you will study, one of the lowest scoring (if my memory serves me correctly, and it may be the lowest passing score) passing results leads you to studying law.
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Aug 3, 2011 18:35
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El Ste posted:Well, in the national exam that determines where you will go to university and what it is you will study, one of the lowest scoring (if my memory serves me correctly, and it may be the lowest passing score) passing results leads you to studying law. It's the lowest scoring yes. The next one is commerce. Ham fucked around with this message at 20:42 on Aug 3, 2011 |
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Aug 3, 2011 20:40
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Ham posted:It's the lowest scoring yes. The next one is commerce. Okay, so I gotta ask, what's the highest scoring ones. Give something like a top five. I just want to see how other countries treat law and business admin degrees.
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Aug 3, 2011 20:44
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Ham posted:It's the lowest scoring yes. The next one is commerce. Which is weird, because most of the Egyptian lawyers I met in Alexandria were really, really smart people.
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Aug 3, 2011 20:52
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suboptimal posted:Which is weird, because most of the Egyptian lawyers I met in Alexandria were really, really smart people. They got things wrong deliberately?
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Aug 3, 2011 20:59
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Young Freud posted:Okay, so I gotta ask, what's the highest scoring ones. Give something like a top five. I myself am an Egyptian-American, born and raised here in America but with my entire family being entirely Egyptian, so while I haven't experienced the actual educational system there I'll do my best to go off memory as to what my parents have told me. Any better placed goons feel free to correct me. In Egypt's equivalent to High School, you are forced to make a decision as to which path of study you will take, a liberal arts/humanities path or a mathematics/science one. In your final year when applying to universities, the score you get on the nationwide exam determines what you will study and where you will be studying it. Now, as far as I know it goes: Highest Scores in Maths/Science Exam lead you to - Medical school, Dentistry, Engineering Highest in Humanities- Political Science, Mass Communication, etc However, if you are a monied enough family, currently the most prestigious private university in Egypt is the American University in Cairo. That's where the business administration degrees and the like come in and they are also considered quite prestigious and worthy of the best jobs out there. As a small aside, there's a bit of a quirk when it comes to the law degree. While it does take the lowest of the humanities exam score, often someone from a well-connected family and a high exam score may opt to study law because if you do have those connections and you study it, it does manage to open up some very good doors for your career. Some of the highest positions, as far as I'm aware, in fact.
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Aug 3, 2011 21:07
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Zeroisanumber posted:From the over-the-top security to the giant cage to Mubarak testifying from a hospital bed, this is all supposed to be a giant spectacle. Someone jog my memory. Was Mubarak dying when he was in power? Because I don't remember him even having a cold. He was standing up and giving speeches and stuff.
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Aug 3, 2011 21:30
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When he was in power his illnesses were downplayed or hidden so as to not stoke fears of his passing. Now it's in his benefit to be infirm, hoping for more lenient treatment.
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Aug 3, 2011 21:37
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El Ste posted:I myself am an Egyptian-American, born and raised here in America but with my entire family being entirely Egyptian, so while I haven't experienced the actual educational system there I'll do my best to go off memory as to what my parents have told me. Any better placed goons feel free to correct me. Most of what you say is correct, but business administration degrees are also given by Egyptian government universities and they're very competitive on the local market compared to other private universities with the exception of AUC, which always gets you a leg-up. Highest in humanities = Political science and economics, Mass comm, Arts, English/French Commerce (this is accounting and business admin. rolled into one) and English/French Law. Science is divided into two branches: Medicinal science and mathematical science Highest in medicinal science = Medicine, Dentistry and Pharmacology Highest in mathematical science = Engineering, IT Students who chose to take the science branch in high school can also choose to join any humanities colleges they'd like if they have the required score but not vice versa. Scores are set on a percentile basis. Students can apply to schools they're eligible for but they usually have a limited number of slots leading them to accept the highest applicants only. Governmental college education in Egypt is relatively cheap unless you join English/French Law or Commerce which can be up to 60-80x as expensive as their Arabic equivalents. Private colleges, while still governed by governmental rules, are much more expensive than governmental ones. quote:As a small aside, there's a bit of a quirk when it comes to the law degree. While it does take the lowest of the humanities exam score, often someone from a well-connected family and a high exam score may opt to study law because if you do have those connections and you study it, it does manage to open up some very good doors for your career. Some of the highest positions, as far as I'm aware, in fact. While this is true in some cases, it's not universal, as a person from a well-connected family would always choose to go the English/French sections. The English/French sections in Law demand much higher scores than the Arabic section and therefore are much more respected.
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Aug 3, 2011 21:37
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Gaddafiquote:Libya's embattled leader Muammar Gaddafi is ready to hold elections to resolve the ongoing conflict in the North African country, Nicaragua's President Daniel Ortega said late on Wednesday after meeting with a Libyan delegation. NATO Bombing quote:An international journalists' group has sharply criticised NATO air strikes against Libyan television, which killed three people and injured 15, saying they violated international law and UN resolutions. uh... quote:AFP reports: Seif al-Islam Kadhafi said Wednesday his family had forged an alliance with Islamist rebels to drive out the secular opposition to his father's 40-year rule.
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Aug 4, 2011 07:18
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Does Saif al-Islam even speak for his father anymore? I've gotten the impression that he's totally out of the loop.
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Aug 4, 2011 07:26
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quote:AFP reports: Seif al-Islam Kadhafi said Wednesday his family had forged an alliance with Islamist rebels to drive out the secular opposition to his father's 40-year rule. What? So instead of "The rebels will turn Libya into Iran!" it's now "We will turn Libya into Iran to spite the rebels!"? Is this some kind of scare tactic to get the west to stop aiding the rebels before they force Gadaffi to ally with the islamists? Or is Gadaffi really ready to compromise his secular rule like this just to stay in power?
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Aug 4, 2011 07:40
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Saif has looked like a nut from the beginning of this conflict, even moreso than his father, so I'd take anything he says with a grain of salt. Early on in the intervention he gave a long speech which even the Al Jazeera anchor summed up with "Well, that was a load of rambling nonsense" and he's been continuing in that vein ever since.
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Aug 4, 2011 09:29
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CeeJee posted:Did anyone ever figure out if Mubarak really had 70 billion like it was claimed at the height of the protests ? It's an interesting point, and like most info that's coming out of Egypt/Libya, it's prossibly some species of P.R. At the same time, asset value gets calculated in different ways and IIRC the guy who founded Ikea can be in the top 250 or the top 5-20 depending on how ownership of assets is calculated. That 70 bill could be 30 depending on which accountant you hire, but it's not really relevant in the general context of Egypt 2011. There's nobody who, other than being contrary, would argue that Mubarak+family didn't retard the economy and inhibit basic personal liberties and economic competition via mechanisms that appropriated billions of $ for personal possession and disadvantaged the country to an extreme degree in the process. This "trial" is just weird. Mubarak kind of reminds me of a fatter, Egyptian John Edwards who managed to keep the sociopathy/crazy from public address until much later.
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Aug 4, 2011 12:00
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Redgrendel2001 posted:There's nobody who, other than being contrary, would argue that Mubarak+family didn't retard the economy and inhibit basic personal liberties and economic competition via mechanisms that appropriated billions of $ for personal possession and disadvantaged the country to an extreme degree in the process. In fairness the economy of Egypt showed consistent growth due to Mubarak's economic reforms, and he was opening up the country to a more market driven economy. The problem was that any benefits were not trickling down to the man on the street. Jut fucked around with this message at 14:12 on Aug 4, 2011 |
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Aug 4, 2011 13:32
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Redgrendel2001 posted:That 70 bill could be 30 depending on which accountant you hire, but it's not really relevant in the general context of Egypt 2011 The question isn't if he's guilty of embezzling state money, but how much of it can be recovered, which is why his assets matter.
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Aug 4, 2011 14:23
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Francequote:France has said its aircraft carrier Charles de Gaulle would return home for maintenance next week from the NATO-led mission over Libya, but insisted there would be no respite for Muammar Gaddafi. Younes quote:Suspicion for the recent murder of the opposition forces commander Abdel Fattah Younes has fallen on a rebel group of fighters from the town of Derna in Eastern Libya. Gadaffi's government has described it as a "hotbed of religious fundamentalism", which the town's residents refute. Rebels quote:The rebels against the Libyan government captured the Cartagena, a ship loaded with 40,000 tons of oil products, on its way from Malta to Tripoli on Thursday.
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Aug 5, 2011 01:56
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There certainly are plenty of interesting rumors regarding quite who took that Libyan tanker. Especially as the rebels have previously not demonstrated any sort of capacity to launch an action like that independently.
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Aug 5, 2011 02:39
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