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FMguru posted:Gregor Clegane is a monster, and the fact that Tywin Lannister uses him as an instrument of terror is presented as proof that Lannisters are utterly amoral and will stop at nothing when it comes to gaining power. So what does it say about honorable Ned Stark that he had Roose Bolton as one of his most esteemed bannermen? Ned knew Roose was a Bad Dude, but what was he going to do? It's not like he was actively using Roose to do anything, like Tywin was with Gregor. Everyone is evil and hosed up and just because they're the focus of the story (at least until they all DIED) the Starks most likely have skeletons in their closets and have schemed with the best of them for years. They would not be wardens of the North if they didn't use political muscle in the past to mess with people. I hope R+J=L is false just to prove that Ned isn't the high and mighty type that he comes across. Mr.Brinks fucked around with this message at 18:40 on Aug 4, 2011 |
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Aug 4, 2011 18:37
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Oh I have no problem with Roose(well, he's a terrible person, but I mean as a character). I'm perfectly in favor of him as an extended villain over the course of several books. Ramsay on the other hand, just makes me roll my eyes. In general though, I loved the Theon chapters. Theon has always been one of my favorite characters, and watching him screw himself over in CoK as he desperately tried to prove himself to his father was more painful for me than the Red Wedding. He's so broken now that I can only really hope for him to redeem himself before a merciful death. Then again, I'm more-than-typically horrified by the loss of body parts, particularly the teeth and (perhaps) genitals. My PRIMARY complaint with the book was the lack of resolution on 2/3 of the main threads. And before anyone accuses me of just wanting bullet points of plot, I understand that there's two books left to resolve the over-arching story. What I find remarkable is that Martin didn't feel the need to resolve the conflicts which act as the crux of this particular volume. You can get away with cliff-hangers when people are going to get to tune in next week, or next season (and I frankly dislike the latter). It's a little irresponsible to write checks you can't cash for at least two years. Specifically, I'm talking about the siege of Meereen and the march on Winterfell. I'm counting Jon's storyline as the resolved one, as his chapters build up quite nicely to his attempted assassination. With the other two, however, the book is effectively saying "This is what you should care about, this is the point of this installment in the series" and then sweeping its own legs by not addressing that point. Leatherhead fucked around with this message at 23:16 on Aug 4, 2011 |
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Aug 4, 2011 18:46
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One of my favorite scenes was at the wedding feast in ADWD, when the Manderelys and Freys are about to kill each other. For just a minute, Roose loses control of the situation and he shouts for the first time in the series.
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Aug 4, 2011 19:04
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VaultAggie posted:One of my favorite scenes was at the wedding feast in ADWD, when the Manderelys and Freys are about to kill each other. For just a minute, Roose loses control of the situation and he shouts for the first time in the series. This. This scene was awesome, and frankly, disturbing.
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Aug 4, 2011 19:22
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FMguru posted:So what does it say about honorable Ned Stark that he had Roose Bolton as one of his most esteemed bannermen? To be fair to Ned and all the other Starks, it sounds like they are extremely powerful bannermen and they have had a history of causing trouble to man of the other Northern houses. I think I remember reading one chapter that claimed the Boltons at one point had killed some other head of the Stark family and wore his skin as a cloak.
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Aug 4, 2011 22:29
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Chainsawdomy posted:What I find remarkable is that Martin didn't feel the need to resolve the conflicts which act as the crux of this particular volume. He (pretty much) had those conclusions done and was told to put them off until Winds by his unbelievably stupid editor: quote:SS: One last question. I understand that George wrote more material than could physically fit in A DANCE WITH DRAGONS. Some of it will likely make its way to the next novel, THE WINDS OF WINTER. As his editor, how much say did you have in what stayed and what had to be pushed into the next book? (emphasis mine)
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Aug 4, 2011 22:46
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Somebody turned out to be totally wrong. The two big sequences the entire book leads up to? Nobody will missing reading those! There's already enough RAD poo poo going down for ten books! Like that part where Tyrion vomits from alcohol poisoning for the third time, what a joker he is!
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Aug 4, 2011 22:50
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Just finished it and really, I was pretty underwhelmed, just not much seems to happen. Back a few pages but in one of the earlier books it's strongly hinted that there is alink between magic and dragons. Right around the time Danny hatches her dragons theres a small bit where it says that the wildfire potions were brewing easier and more potent than ever before and I think someone even says that magic in the world dwindled out right around the time people started killing dragons.
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Aug 4, 2011 22:53
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pksage posted:He (pretty much) had those conclusions done and was told to put them off until Winds by his unbelievably stupid editor: You know the sections that were removed were really just two extensive discussions of the history of the lamprey pie in westeros and the political machinations back in yunkai, right (man has the political landscape changed there since the army left! You would not believe who's in charge now! it is another incompetent slaver, but this one likes... Wait for it... Slaves who are tremendously fat to fight for them! They have developed a suit of chain with spikes and the fat slaves just get rolled along the battlefield until they hit the enemy!)?
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Aug 4, 2011 22:58
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builds character posted:the fat slaves just get rolled along the battlefield until they hit the enemy!)?
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Aug 4, 2011 23:01
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builds character posted:You know the sections that were removed were really just two extensive discussions of the history of the lamprey pie in westeros and the political machinations back in yunkai, right? Lies, grrm would never allow lamprey pies or dithering in slaver's bay to be cut. I can't help but think that his editor is hoping to drag the story out forever in some zeno's paradox of plot so he will be able to live off the series forever. Each book takes us half of the remaining way to resolving the plot.
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Aug 4, 2011 23:11
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LtSmash posted:Lies, grrm would never allow lamprey pies or dithering in slaver's bay to be cut. Book 45 Chapter 1 With a cry of rage, Azor Azhai stabbed Bran in the Meanwhile, Back in Meereen
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Aug 4, 2011 23:19
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Maarak posted:HBO Funny enough I wonder how much money HBO would make if GRRM died while airing season 2/3. "You want to know how it all ends? Stay tuned!"
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Aug 4, 2011 23:25
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I dont know what to think about Jons final chapter and Stannis's army being crushed. In Jons case if hes really properly dead Ill be shocked and a little impressed by GRRMs balls. I thought Jons slippage of control was well done, but at the same time Im wary since from book 2 onwards GRRM has been much more willing to resurrect characters or give them cliffhanger deaths. Whats the consensus on Ramsays horribly disturbing letter? Jon dying or Stannis utterly defeated, I can buy one but not both. Surely not both, that would mean a dead end after thousands of pages.
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Aug 4, 2011 23:41
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It's not even from Ramsay (maybe)
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Aug 4, 2011 23:50
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Markeh posted:Whats the consensus on Ramsays horribly disturbing letter? Jon dying or Stannis utterly defeated, I can buy one but not both. Surely not both, that would mean a dead end after thousands of pages.
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Aug 5, 2011 01:46
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^^ If GRRM chokes to death on a lamprey pie before continuing the series, I'm just going to assume that ^^pksage posted:He (pretty much) had those conclusions done and was told to put them off until Winds by his unbelievably stupid editor: Which explains why it felt like Empire Strikes Back if it ended just before Luke gets to Cloud City. (only with 3-4 Lukes and 2-3 Cloud Cities) EDIT: And if Empire Strikes back had been two, four hour, movies. EDIT EDIT: and at this point I'm quite confident that HBO can fit everything of importance in aFfC and aDwD into one, ten episode, season quite comfortably. hellbastard fucked around with this message at 01:57 on Aug 5, 2011 |
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Aug 5, 2011 01:47
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Dany's dragons burn Meereen to the ground; turns out it's just an allegory for how useless it is to use diplomacy to bring peace to foreign cities and that nuclear weapons are the answer.
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Aug 5, 2011 02:03
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LtSmash posted:*Rocks fall and kill the entire party* I guess all that leaves is Dany getting eaten by one of her dragons having lost total control of them, Tyrion getting crushed somehow, and then Sansa kills Baelish but then is forced to marry into house Royce who sell her to the hill tribes.
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Aug 5, 2011 02:09
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Re reading it, I'm surprised and disappointed at the lack of Loras. I can only assume he's a POV next book. E - Lack of Loras is a great name for an alt rock band
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Aug 5, 2011 02:24
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Supreme Allah posted:Re reading it, I'm surprised and disappointed at the lack of Loras. I can only assume he's a POV next book. I bet he's not even dying.
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Aug 5, 2011 02:26
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Zombie Gregor is going to murder all the Tyrells
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Aug 5, 2011 02:27
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I really enjoyed Dance a lot more than Feast, but I have to say I felt it was lacking a decent end to the book. The final Jon chapter in particular felt quite cheap to me, some form of large set piece would have helped with that. Instead it felt like the reader was cheated out of the book's climax, which I guess we can blame his editor for. Overall though, I thought it was a very enjoyable book with moments of brilliance. Of all the unjustified and downright idiotic complaining in regards to this latest book, the one thing that really stood head and shoulders above the rest for me was the complaint about GRRM using "whilst" and "amongst". If you have a problem with those two words you really really need to improve your vocabulary. Because you are dumb.
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Aug 5, 2011 02:29
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A random casting thought that will never happen... But I'd really like to see Nivek Ogre playing Roose Bolton in the series. It's just how I imagined him but especially his whispery voice.
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Aug 5, 2011 02:39
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This thread needs more GoT haiku: Shagga, son of Dolf / Threatens to cut off manhood / Feed it to the goats Wayman Manderly / Having some friends for dinner / Three pies from The Twins
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Aug 5, 2011 02:41
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Rapey Joe Stalin posted:Of all the unjustified and downright idiotic complaining in regards to this latest book, the one thing that really stood head and shoulders above the rest for me was the complaint about GRRM using "whilst" and "amongst". They're both uncommon in North America, and usually are only used as affections by people trying to come off as sophisticated, English gentry-types. I know that they're both still used in the UK, however.
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Aug 5, 2011 02:44
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What the loving gently caress, how did I miss so many details? Not only did I not realise that Abel and his six women were Mance and the spearwives, but I also was completely innocent as to Manderly cooking pies out of dead Freys. Jesus christ, I wonder what else I didn't pick up on as I raced through the book.
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Aug 5, 2011 03:05
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CornHolio posted:I bet he's not even dying. I'll say right now that a little bell rang when it was reported that Loras had been severely burned. The report is a lie, Loras is fine and his family is planning on pulling him out of hiding at an opportune moment.
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Aug 5, 2011 03:14
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mllaneza posted:I'll say right now that a little bell rang when it was reported that Loras had been severely burned. The report is a lie, Loras is fine and his family is planning on pulling him out of hiding at an opportune moment. I still don't know what to think of the sister being shushed when she brought up Loras right before Cersei's nudewalk.
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Aug 5, 2011 03:25
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Hedrigall posted:What the loving gently caress, how did I miss so many details?
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Aug 5, 2011 03:29
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Toplowtech posted:In a Clash of King, when Bran and co were hiding in the tombs, they took three swords: Lord Rickard's sword, Brandon Stark's sword and the newest one which was intended for Eddard's statue. When Theon and Lady Dustin enter the crypt, the sword which is missing from one of the "kings" is from an older Stark whose name Theon does not recall and it's not one of the swords that Bran Meera and Osha took. And the crypt was completely sealed by the snow until their visit so it's unlikely anyone from the wedding took it. Then there is the whole Little Walder Frey's murder... Well that has me stumped, who do you reckon did it? Manderly? Another thing I missed was the possible fulfilment of the Azor Ahai prophecy with Jon (the star bleeding being Ser Patrek's insignia as he's killed by the giant) edit: And Mirri Maz Dhur's prophecy about "the sun setting in the east" = Quentyn dying?, and "the sea drying up" = the Dothraki sea's grass dying
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Aug 5, 2011 03:34
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Hedrigall posted:edit: And Mirri Maz Dhur's prophecy about "the sun setting in the east" = Quentyn dying?, and "the sea drying up" = the Dothraki sea's grass dying "...and mountains blow in the wind like leaves." Aren't the volcanoes of Valyria erupting?
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Aug 5, 2011 03:40
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Toplowtech posted:In a Clash of King, when Bran and co were hiding in the tombs, they took three swords: Lord Rickard's sword, Brandon Stark's sword and the newest one which was intended for Eddard's statue. When Theon and Lady Dustin enter the crypt, the sword which is missing from one of the "kings" is from an older Stark whose name Theon does not recall and it's not one of the swords that Bran Meera and Osha took. And the crypt was completely sealed by the snow until their visit so it's unlikely anyone from the wedding took it. Then there is the whole Little Walder Frey's murder... I didn't catch this. Who was left over at Winterfell after Theon's reign ???
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Aug 5, 2011 03:41
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Wex.
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Aug 5, 2011 04:14
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Hedrigall posted:What the loving gently caress, how did I miss so many details? To be fair the Frey thing was pretty subtle. I didn't realize Abel=Mance until Jon got the letter from Ramsey. I think I would've realized sooner but I must have zoned out during the part where Abel first shows up because I just assumed he had been with the Boltons or the Manderlies or somebody the entire time. Also, I can't remember if this idea came from Theon or my own head, but the idea that Abel was a singer and so had all these ideas of gallantry and saving maidens was enough for me to justify why he was trying to rescue Jaynra Stool.
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Aug 5, 2011 05:02
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Rapey Joe Stalin posted:Of all the unjustified and downright idiotic complaining in regards to this latest book, the one thing that really stood head and shoulders above the rest for me was the complaint about GRRM using "whilst" and "amongst". Hey I proffered that particular quibble gently caress you I am quite articulate and well-read despite my pneumonoultramicroscopicsilicovolcanoconiosis. It's not that I don't understand the history and usage, it's that they're archaic and make a person sound like they're trying too hard. Also I got this avatar weeks before we were all enjoying the new graphic anime novel.
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Aug 5, 2011 05:28
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Hedrigall posted:edit: And Mirri Maz Dhur's prophecy about "the sun setting in the east" = Quentyn dying?, and "the sea drying up" = the Dothraki sea's grass dying I never really took that as a prophecy... more a sort of a cool and flippant way to say "NEVER BIATCH!!!"
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Aug 5, 2011 06:39
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Chainsawdomy posted:Oh I have no problem with Roose(well, he's a terrible person, but I mean as a character). I'm perfectly in favor of him as an extended villain over the course of several books. Ramsay on the other hand, just makes me roll my eyes. There's more cliffhangers than there are definite or knowable storylines right now and it's because he doesn't know how to build dramatic tension otherwise. It's been a problem throughout the series and is getting worse. Also no one could criticize you if you DID have hesitations about there being another two books or whatever because there's no loving way that the series will finish in two books at anything even close to the current rate Rapey Joe Stalin posted:
yeah it's not that they're out of place anachronisms in a book mostly written in common day vernacular it's just that people are so "dumb" that they haven't seen the word "whilst" before. you are the one who is smart. you are smarter than all of us. Guys why are you complaining about him using forsooth and fortnight? They're real words!! *links relevant wikipedia page, leans way back in chair, eats a lil bit of glue* "whilst" loving sticks out because it sounds like something a person decrying "the stupids" on an internet messageboard would pride himself on using and not something an actual professional writer who worries about things like "rhythm" and "sound" and "meaning" would use. complaining about it isn't contrived or stupid at all sorry (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Aug 5, 2011 06:52
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Supreme Allah posted:E - Lack of Loras is a great name for an alt rock band Flayed Member would be a hell of a Black Metal band name. I'm looking forward to their first single "I'm begging you to cut my cock off."
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Aug 5, 2011 07:04
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If the tales coming up the kingsroad could be believed, the King's Hand had been murdered by his dwarf son whilst sitting on a privy. She could carry the sadness of the moment with her that way forever, see the world refracted through those tears, those specific tears, as if indices as yet unfound varied in important ways from cry to cry. use of language, pretty much a wash. grrm, master of English and of "whilst"
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Aug 5, 2011 07:10
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