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showbiz_liz posted:I think the problem with 'whilst' specifically is that, in America, it tends to mostly be used by the same sorts of greasy nerds who wear fedoras, for the same reason. They think it makes them seem classy, so they pick it up as a painstakingly deliberate affectation. Obviously in the UK that's not the case, but as an American, whenever I see 'whilst' I think 'sweaty Renfaire attendee'. Well, Westeros is basically one giant sweaty Renfaire, so it seems totally appropriate. I originally had a problem with "week"s and "fortnight"s until I realized that the Westerosi have a perfectly legitimate reason to ascribe significance to units of seven.
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Aug 7, 2011 21:44
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hailthefish posted:I doubt he'll make the Others "sympathetic" but it could happen. More likely it's a choice between a handful of evils, or evil and good-but-with-horrifying-unintended-consequences, or maybe the Others aren't evil at all but are just trying to protect the old gods of the North and the Children of the Forest? What if the Children of the Forest are really terrifyingly evil and Bran has to choose between two horrible options?
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Aug 7, 2011 21:54
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colonel_korn posted:I just finished reading the book and one thing kind of stuck in my craw a little -- sorry if it's been discussed already but the thread is so long that I can't really sift through it to see. I didn't really get this either. GRRM sorta makes the mountain clans to be analogous to the hill tribes in the Vale (i.e. Shagga et al), but the did a very good job of establishing who and what the hill tribes are. Meanwhile the mountain clans are just "some dudes who live out yonder," and then boom they join with Stannis. It just felt lazy.
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Aug 7, 2011 22:00
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I think the thing about recruiting all those mountain men is you need time, and lots of it. Robb was losing lords and men by the day, and he couldn't afford to act slowly. By the time he got all the mountain men recruited, he'd have lost more men from his lords - and seasoned men with castle-forged steel at that! Stannis has nothing to lose by wasting weeks eating dinner with hillbillies.
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Aug 7, 2011 22:06
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colonel_korn posted:So, Stannis rallies about 3,000 guys from the mountain clans to his cause before marching south to take on the Boltons. Where were these guys during the whole war of the five kings? If they're willing to rally to Stannis to go "rescue Ned's daughter" then surely they would have joined up with Robb's main force when Ned himself was taken captive? Or later on, when the Ironmen took the North, it never occurred to Robb to try to get those guys to retake Moat Cailin (from the north, which is apparently way easier than from the south)? This is a weirdness, because there were mountain clans with Robb when he marched south (Norreys and Wulls were explicitly mentioned). The question remains why there were 3,000 guys of fighting age left behind in the clans. Maybe Robb didn't think he'd need them? It was autumn when he marched, leaving those men behind to continue the harvest would make sense. Plus, in the beginning of his campaign, Robb was winning every battle he fought and probably didn't think he needed the extra men.
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Aug 7, 2011 22:08
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Caufman posted:This is a weirdness, because there were mountain clans with Robb when he marched south (Norreys and Wulls were explicitly mentioned). The question remains why there were 3,000 guys of fighting age left behind in the clans. Maybe Robb didn't think he'd need them? It was autumn when he marched, leaving those men behind to continue the harvest would make sense. Plus, in the beginning of his campaign, Robb was winning every battle he fought and probably didn't think he needed the extra men. He probably won't answer because it turns out the mountain men were hiding a third Targaryen or something. Hilly Targaryen, who rides a swamp lizard.
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Aug 7, 2011 22:18
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Maybe Robb left them behind to defend the nortahahahahahaha
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Aug 7, 2011 22:44
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How long has the R+L=J theory been around?
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Aug 7, 2011 22:58
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computer parts posted:How long has the R+L=J theory been around? The what now?
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Aug 7, 2011 23:04
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Quantify! posted:I don't think there will be happy endings but I'm pretty sure most factions will unite to defeat the zombies. I dunno maybe I'm wrong and Martin will turn everything on its head and its the humans that are evil and the zombies are actually the ones who keep nature in check and it could really suck too but I'm gonna believe in a future where the story is good. The very last POV chapter will be Ramsay slowly flaying* one of the Others, where we learn that they're all the reincarnated souls of the most righteous humans, who only sought justice. Which is why they are so determined to attack the Wall, as it's manned by the criminal scum of Westeros. *not sure if the Others have skin. Some depictions of them make them seem like they're made out of ice, so maybe he would need a chisel? Maarak fucked around with this message at 23:10 on Aug 7, 2011 |
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Aug 7, 2011 23:05
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hailthefish posted:Maybe Robb left them behind to defend the nortahahahahahaha
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Aug 7, 2011 23:05
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I'd be somewhat disappointed if he didn't attempt to humanize the Others in some fashion. Every other faction, mystical or otherwise has had some characterization, but they remain the same Seelie-esque fae since GoT. They don't necessarily need to be made sympathetic, but reasons beyond being ˇloving EVIL! would be nice. One of my favorite things about Dance was how Melisandre and presumably the rest of the R'hllor priesthood are basically making this poo poo up as they go. Some much for the mysterious sorceress. It's all a farce, possibly a mummer's.
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Aug 7, 2011 23:10
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Argali posted:The what now?
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Aug 7, 2011 23:17
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Linguica posted:Rhaegar Targaryen + Lyanna Stark = Jon Snow aka Jon Targaryen Why spoiler it? I was dubious before but if anything ADWD convinced me of its truth.
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Aug 7, 2011 23:19
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Mr.Brinks posted:^^^^^^^ I think it would be pretty funny if it turns out Aegon was really the son of Wylla and Ned Stark, and someone pulled a double switcheroo with baby Aegon, Jon Snow and some other woman's kid.
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Aug 7, 2011 23:21
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Goreld posted:I think it would be pretty funny if it turns out Aegon was really the son of Wylla and Ned Stark, and someone pulled a double switcheroo with baby Aegon, Jon Snow and some other woman's kid. Being the child of incest explains why he's so sickly.
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Aug 7, 2011 23:29
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Argali posted:
And almost certainly since aGoT was released as most of the evidence for it comes from that book. 15 years, wow. Edit: Reek, Reek, it rhymes with beaten
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Aug 7, 2011 23:32
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Iggles posted:15 years, wow.
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Aug 7, 2011 23:33
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Quantify! posted:Sweetrobin is really Aegon. He's a little young, isn't he? Unless incest also makes you age ridiculously slowly.
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Aug 7, 2011 23:34
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xamphear posted:Holy poo poo that's depressing. Holy poo poo, I was 6 years old when AGoT was published. Crazy. Iggles posted:
No it doesn't.
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Aug 7, 2011 23:40
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Iggles posted:The what now? And almost certainly since aGoT was released as most of the evidence for it comes from that book. 15 years, wow. [/quote] Care to elaborate? Definitely an interesting theory. Also I think Hodor will be a POV character in the next book, which is never coming out.
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Aug 7, 2011 23:41
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Caufman posted:He's a little young, isn't he? Unless incest also makes you age ridiculously slowly. Also remember how he likes to make people "fly"? Obvious Targaryen hint right there. Sweetrobin is the third dragonrider.
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Aug 7, 2011 23:43
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You've sold me.
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Aug 7, 2011 23:57
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I was watching that new movie "The Devil's Double" today. Great flick. It convinced me that Uday Hussein is the Iraqi Ramsay Snow. Much of the story is heavily fictionalized, but the source material is horrifyingly real. If anyone else is interested in reading up on Uday, here's are some articles that goes pretty deep. Basically, Ramsay ain't got poo poo on Uday. http://www.mafhoum.com/press5/147P57.htm http://editinternational.com/read.php?id=47ddcef722fca I only linked to this because I remember a few pages back someone posted about how Ramsay seemed too cartoonishly evil. Well, Uday makes Ramsay seem like a pretty mild dude. edit: I found this section in the second article which is pretty awful, so heads up: Every day Uday Hussein and his bodyguards drove around the university and the girls’ schools until the president's son saw a girl he fancied. He would stop her and ask her to spend the night with him. If she refused his bodyguards would grab her and bring her back to the palace. There Uday would rape the girl. If she resisted, after he was done, he would give her to the whole team of bodyguards. If she was really a lot of trouble, like one architectural student named Nahle Sabet who had the nerve to publicly reject him, Uday would throw her naked to his pack of wild dogs which ripped her to pieces while he watched, drinking champagne and laughing. Could GRRM have used Uday as source material for Ramsay? Or am I just reaching?> oogyboogs fucked around with this message at 00:32 on Aug 8, 2011 |
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Aug 8, 2011 00:26
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Argali posted:
It's such a popular theory that most of the internet takes it as fact at this point (which means that The Gurm is going to change it now just to gently caress with us). http://towerofthehand.com/essays/chrisholden/jon_snows_parents.html (change the scope at the top to A Dance with Dragons)
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Aug 8, 2011 00:33
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hailthefish posted:Holy poo poo, I was 6 years old when AGoT was published. Crazy. kanonvandekempen posted:Did anyone spot pop culture references?
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Aug 8, 2011 00:36
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elron posted:Dude, I'm not even old, but you sure made me feel like it. Eh, the Hyperion series uses "Lions and Tigers and Bears" as a description of an otherworldly group of omniscient beings, so I've disassociated the words with the Wizard of Oz.
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Aug 8, 2011 01:02
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hailthefish posted:Why spoiler it? How does ADWD reinforce the theory? I was pretty convinced before but missed any evidence in the new book.
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Aug 8, 2011 01:03
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oogyboogs posted:Every day Uday Hussein and his bodyguards drove around the university and the girls’ schools until the president's son saw a girl he fancied. He would stop her and That said I thought making Jeyne whatsherface gently caress a dog was a little much. This was mentioned in passing so a lot of you may have missed it, but yes it's in the book.  elron posted:There's a part where GRRM is describing the masks of the animal guards and he strings together 5 magical words: "lions and tigers and bears". No "oh my", so it might not qualify as a Wizard of Oz reference, but it still led me to make this note: "really you piece of poo poo? really?" So there's that. "What's in there?" "Only what you take with you."
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Aug 8, 2011 01:08
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Quantify! posted:That said I thought making Jeyne whatsherface gently caress a dog was a little much. This was mentioned in passing so a lot of you may have missed it, but yes it's in the book. I'm not sure she did actually gently caress the dogs, just that she said she would rather than make him angry. I interpreted it as Ramsey had joked about having her gently caress the dogs and she said no so he did something horrible to her, and when Theon came to get her she said she would be willing to gently caress the dogs so it didn't happen again. Also aren't all of the dogs Ramsey cares about female since he names them after the women he's tortured? Also loving a dog seems less horrible than having Theon's dick flayed so he would beg to have it cut off to end the pain.
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Aug 8, 2011 01:34
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LtSmash posted:I'm not sure she did actually gently caress the dogs, just that she said she would rather than make him angry. I interpreted it as Ramsey had joked about having her gently caress the dogs and she said no so he did something horrible to her, and when Theon came to get her she said she would be willing to gently caress the dogs so it didn't happen again. Also aren't all of the dogs Ramsey cares about female since he names them after the women he's tortured? I'd rather not have to overthink this, but exactly how do you have your dick flayed and live?
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Aug 8, 2011 01:42
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As much as I had assumed that it was obvious that Jon Snow wasn't going to stay dead, people on Facebook seem to think that that was a real death ala Ned. So, as obvious as it seems to us that he's not dead, I guess GRRM really did somewhat accomplish what he set out to do because some people were still duped.
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Aug 8, 2011 01:44
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He probably just gave him a crude circumcision. With a wooden spoon or something.
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Aug 8, 2011 01:44
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Quantify! posted:I'm pretty sure history has shown that humanity without restraints is pretty loving awful, and GRRM didn't need Uday Hussein to draw from.
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Aug 8, 2011 01:45
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LtSmash posted:Also aren't all of the dogs Ramsey cares about female since he names them after the women he's tortured? His personal hunting dogs are female, the kennels would have at least one male for breeding purposes. IIRC one of the Theon chapters even mentions a litter of new pups and one being named after Kyra(sp?) the girl that tried to help him escape.
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Aug 8, 2011 01:46
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Argali posted:I'd rather not have to overthink this, but exactly how do you have your dick flayed and live? Just have to not puncture the corpora cavernosa. Anatomical sketch of the cross-section of a penis: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f6/Gray1155.png
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Aug 8, 2011 01:48
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hailthefish posted:Just have to not puncture the corpora cavernosa. I sense a new low approaching.
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Aug 8, 2011 02:21
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Wow. Even in the Bad Thread's glory days, we never actually arrived at discussing the logistics of penis-flaying. Good grief, chaps
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Aug 8, 2011 02:55
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ineptmule posted:How does ADWD reinforce the theory? I was pretty convinced before but missed any evidence in the new book.
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Aug 8, 2011 02:55
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^ Yeah, he doesn't say his name but it's gotta be Jon. --- In the chapter "A ghost of winterfell," Theon sees this hooded guy: Farther on, he came upon a man striding in the opposite direction, a hooded cloak flapping behind him. When they found themselves face-to-face their eyes met briefly. The man put a hand on his dagger. “Theon Turncloak. Theon Kinslayer.” “I’m not. I never … I was ironborn.” “False is all you were. How is it you still breathe?” “The gods are not done with me,” Theon answered, wondering if this could be the killer, the night walker who had stuffed Yellow Dick’s cock into his mouth and pushed Roger Ryswell’s groom off the battlements. Oddly, he was not afraid. He pulled the glove from his left hand. “Lord Ramsay is not done with me.” The man looked, and laughed. “I leave you to him, then.” Who is this guy supposed to be?
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Aug 8, 2011 03:01
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