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I know at some point in the new book one character (I think it might have been Kevan but I'm not 100% sure) mentions King Aerys having the hots for Joanna Lannister, so there's more fodder for the Tyrion=Secret Targ crowd as well.
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Aug 8, 2011 03:04
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oogyboogs posted:I was watching that new movie "The Devil's Double" today. Great flick. It convinced me that Uday Hussein is the Iraqi Ramsay Snow. Much of the story is heavily fictionalized, but the source material is horrifyingly real. If anyone else is interested in reading up on Uday, here's are some articles that goes pretty deep. Basically, Ramsay ain't got poo poo on Uday. This from the second article especially strikes me as similar to Ramsay/Reek, quote:The next day Uday summoned Latif and screamed, “Why are you sneaking around after my girlfriend?” Latif was stunned. He never approached Uday’s women. The But, just, jeez.
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Aug 8, 2011 03:10
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oogyboogs posted:^ Yeah, he doesn't say his name but it's gotta be Jon. Abel/Mance I assume?
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Aug 8, 2011 03:16
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ImJasonH posted:Abel/Mance I assume?
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Aug 8, 2011 03:25
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colonel_korn posted:I know at some point in the new book one character (I think it might have been Kevan but I'm not 100% sure) mentions King Aerys having the hots for Joanna Lannister, so there's more fodder for the Tyrion=Secret Targ crowd as well. Whaaaat, really? I could be down with R+L=J, but I think Tyrion being a secret Targ is totally pushing it. I guess I had heard something about that poo poo before, but I thought it was just psycho fanwanking and never saw anything that suggested it in the book until you mentioned this. I remember what you're talking about, but it wasn't until your post that I put the two together. Crap. I really was hoping that Tyrion would be more of a saddle-maker/advisor to Dany, and not one of the other two dragon riders.
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Aug 8, 2011 03:26
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Quantify! posted:Msnce wouldn't have any reason to care about what Theon did, or even recognize him. Mance may recognize him from Robert's feast at Winterfell, which he snuck into.
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Aug 8, 2011 03:33
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kissyboots13 posted:Whaaaat, really? I could be down with R+L=J, but I think Tyrion being a secret Targ is totally pushing it. I guess I had heard something about that poo poo before, but I thought it was just psycho fanwanking and never saw anything that suggested it in the book until you mentioned this. I remember what you're talking about, but it wasn't until your post that I put the two together. Nah, we talked about it about 20 pages ago. The evidence is pretty sparse, it doesn't make a lot of chronological sense, and just from a literary standpoint would be a loving awful twist, so it's almost certainly just a silly fan theory.
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Aug 8, 2011 03:35
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ImJasonH posted:Mance may recognize him from Robert's feast at Winterfell, which he snuck into.
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Aug 8, 2011 03:38
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Wonder if it was someone loyal to Stannis who was either undercover, or snuck in?
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Aug 8, 2011 04:03
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Why can't it just be some random dude? Everyone in the place hates Theon.
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Aug 8, 2011 04:04
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Requesting thread title change to A Dance With Dragons - Would you like Freys with that?
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Aug 8, 2011 04:08
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I tend to lean towards that hooded guy being the one who killed Yellow Dick. And since GRRM makes such a deal out of implying that there was a second murderer, I don't think it's Mance. I'm trying to think of unaccounted for Winterfell loyalists who might not be dead but not really coming up with any. Anyone significant in Robb's army who disappeared off the face of the earth after the red wedding?
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Aug 8, 2011 04:22
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The Blackfish?
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Aug 8, 2011 05:32
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VaultAggie posted:The Blackfish? Edit: or to save her daughter? Toplowtech fucked around with this message at 06:02 on Aug 8, 2011 |
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Aug 8, 2011 05:52
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VaultAggie posted:The Blackfish? I wouldn't think he'd be able to get through the riverlands, through the Neck, and into Winterfell, especially with the onset of winter. I assumed he was going to head to the Vale, probably by ship since the passes would be snowed in. Not sure what amount of news Riverrun was getting during the siege; he may not know Lysa is dead. Even so, he's got the most friends in the Vale, if the Lords Declarant were any indication. I never thought much of the second murderer, I always assumed it was meant to mirror Theon's inability to manage the keep when he took Winterfell. May be another subplot, god knows we don't have enough. *sarcasm*
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Aug 8, 2011 06:02
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Quantify! posted:That's a bit of a stretch though, and Mance still has no real reason to care about what Theon did.
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Aug 8, 2011 07:19
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To be perfectly honest the book could've used a bit of tightening up. The fact that the editor is going around gushing about how good the book is doesn't give me the feeling that somebody actually sat down with this and whipped it into shape. Instead of fixing little things like that, apparently they just lopped off the climax to the books. I hope Martin doesn't get locked into a lovely deadline with the next one and it actually gets some proper editorial attention.
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Aug 8, 2011 07:25
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Quantify! posted:To be perfectly honest the book could've used a bit of tightening up. The fact that the editor is going around gushing about how good the book is doesn't give me the feeling that somebody actually sat down with this and whipped it into shape. I don't think you'll have to worry about the next book coming out too quickly!
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Aug 8, 2011 09:20
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Mince Pieface posted:I don't think you'll have to worry about the next book coming out too quickly! The funniest part about this book is he still hasn't solved the "Meereenese knot" because half the people going to meet Dany haven't done so. One assumes the next book will open with her flying in and having everyone sitting there waiting for her.
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Aug 8, 2011 10:15
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colonel_korn posted:I know at some point in the new book one character (I think it might have been Kevan but I'm not 100% sure) mentions King Aerys having the hots for Joanna Lannister, so there's more fodder for the Tyrion=Secret Targ crowd as well. Wouldn't that imply that Jaime and Cersei are the Targs, ironically making Tommen the actual rightful king on the Iron Throne?
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Aug 8, 2011 10:23
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Jaime and Cersei have Lannister gold in their hair. Tyrion has dark hair mixed in with his. Darkened by the smoke from dragonflame, you see.
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Aug 8, 2011 10:34
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Quantify! posted:Jaime and Cersei have Lannister gold in their hair. Tyrion has dark hair mixed in with his. Darkened by the smoke from dragonflame, you see. On the other hand, Jaime and Cersei share a lot of Targ character traits: sex in the family, Cersei being paranoid. Anyway I think this is just GRRM having a little fun with what he reads on the internet, like the 'hints' about Jon's parentage.
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Aug 8, 2011 10:47
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Aurubin posted:I wouldn't think he'd be able to get through the riverlands, through the Neck, and into Winterfell, especially with the onset of winter. I assumed he was going to head to the Vale, probably by ship since the passes would be snowed in. Not sure what amount of news Riverrun was getting during the siege; he may not know Lysa is dead. Even so, he's got the most friends in the Vale, if the Lords Declarant were any indication. From a storytelling point of view it'd also make sense for the Blackfish to pop up in the vale. Littlefinger's going to be chilling there for a while yet I'd imagine before it's time for him to put his masterplan of unifying the north and the vale into action, and he's going to need some kind of opponent who he can't just fob off with a few words and cheap tricks like he did the Lords Declarant. The Blackfish would be perfect. He's got the same kind of gritty badass honor as Ned Stark but, judging by how he brusquely laughed off Jaime, he doesn't have Ned's naivety. I'd love to see Littlefinger dismiss the Blackfish as another noble fool and try and manipulate him the same way he did Ned, only to get shot the gently caress down.
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Aug 8, 2011 10:49
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I can't wait until someone just stabs Littlefinger instead of listening to his bullshit. Hopefully it will be Sansa. Then Arya rides in on Nymeria and says "I never knew you were so brave, sister. Let's roll." Cut to epilogue, they rule as Queens in the North for like 50 years.
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Aug 8, 2011 11:13
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Quantify! posted:Well that's the thing. Martin's process takes a long time, so when they shortcutted the editorial process on the stuff he was finishing up at the last minute, they ended up with a shittier book. If they're going to give him a deadline, they need to give HIM a deadline and then let their editors work on it for a long while. I kinda figured Aegon or whatever his name is was his solution for the knot, first her dragons burn the gently caress out of Mereen making it useless and then she hears about some other Targaryen taking over her lands making her hurry the gently caress up.
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Aug 8, 2011 12:43
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Quantify! posted:I can't wait until someone just stabs Littlefinger instead of listening to his bullshit. Except Sansa is a whiny annoying character and that wouldn't be interesting at all. The Arya subplot has gone off the rails too - I don't really know what's going on and GRRM isn't giving me too many reasons to care.
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Aug 8, 2011 13:08
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Quantify! posted:Jaime and Cersei have Lannister gold in their hair. Tyrion has dark hair mixed in with his. Darkened by the smoke from dragonflame, you see. Tyrion's eyes are also two different colors and, oh yeah, he's a dwarf. The Targaryen blood idea is silly - he's a physical representation of the monstrous nature of the entire Lannister house.
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Aug 8, 2011 13:10
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kanonvandekempen posted:Wouldn't that imply that Jaime and Cersei are the Targs, ironically making Tommen the actual rightful king on the Iron Throne? Rhaegar is about 7 years older than Jaime and Cersei, so his kids would still come first in the succession.
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Aug 8, 2011 13:10
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Quantify! posted:Well that's the thing. Martin's process takes a long time, so when they shortcutted the editorial process on the stuff he was finishing up at the last minute, they ended up with a shittier book. If they're going to give him a deadline, they need to give HIM a deadline and then let their editors work on it for a long while. Assuming that the editor is competent. Did you read that interview with her? I don't think she is.
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Aug 8, 2011 13:26
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hhhmmm posted:Assuming that the editor is competent. Did you read that interview with her? I don't think she is. Why do people keep saying this? By all accounts it sounds like GRRM shat a 1500 page monstrosity on their desks and said "I'm still not done".
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Aug 8, 2011 14:26
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Crackbone posted:Why do people keep saying this? By all accounts it sounds like GRRM shat a 1500 page monstrosity on their desks and said "I'm still not done". I'm starting to think that GRRM is having too much fun living the high life in Santa Fe now to care about the series, really. He just got married, and money must be pouring in from the hardcover and the HBO series. I bet he doesn't even bother to sit down and get to writing the next book, which will never come out, until at least the end of 2014. Or maybe Cormac McCarthy will ghostwrite the end of the series?
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Aug 8, 2011 14:33
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oogyboogs posted:^ Yeah, he doesn't say his name but it's gotta be Jon. It's Theon. He's having a psychotic break and talking to his reflection in one of the shattered panes of glass from the greenhouse. He also killed Little Walder.
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Aug 8, 2011 14:48
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Argali posted:I'm starting to think that GRRM is having too much fun living the high life in Santa Fe now to care about the series, really. He just got married, and money must be pouring in from the hardcover and the HBO series. I bet he doesn't even bother to sit down and get to writing the next book, which will never come out, until at least the end of 2014. I don't think he just got married.
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Aug 8, 2011 14:48
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Crackbone posted:Why do people keep saying this? By all accounts it sounds like GRRM shat a 1500 page monstrosity on their desks and said "I'm still not done". Because the last two books are poorly edited. The overall plot is ok and the writing is decent. But the timing is off. Too many cliffhangers and travelogue, and phrases are repeated to much. These are things that should have been caught in editing. Reading the interview, the editor is moving the books in the opposite direction - moving plot resolutions away, and falling in love with the travelogue, Penny and other parts where GRRM is repeating himself too much.
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Aug 8, 2011 14:51
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Crackbone posted:Why do people keep saying this? By all accounts it sounds like GRRM shat a 1500 page monstrosity on their desks and said "I'm still not done". People think the editor is terrible because she bragged about them cutting two major plot resolutions from ADWD and gushed about how Penny alone more than made up for it.
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Aug 8, 2011 14:52
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hhhmmm posted:Because the last two books are poorly edited. But how much of that can the editor really control? The mess GRRM made of these two books has already been pretty extensively covered. Plus, you really think the editor is going to badmouth the book? "Yeah, well we couldn't get Martin to get to a good ending after 1200 pages, so this book sucks".
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Aug 8, 2011 15:00
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I just finished ADwD, and Dany's last chapter felt so out of place. We have this big omg shocker, then Dany lollygagging around in a field with her Dragon for 30 loving pages. Oh then Varys being a crazy badass and loving all the poo poo up. The only major plot points in the book ended up being OMGJON, Aegon out of left field, and Dany's dragons finally not being worthless. I guess Stannis might be dead? But since he's a big character and he "died" off-screen, he's almost certainly not. Oh, and Tyrion, Jorah, Victarion, Asha, Theon, Arya, Jamie, and Cersei just kind of meandering around, and Quentyn nobody-gives-a-poo poo getting roasted, but nobody really gives a poo poo, qed. Compare this to ASoS, which had the Red Wedding, Oberyn vs. Gregor, and the huge battle at the Wall -- by far the most entertaining and plot-advancing book of them all. And that's keeping in mind all those (ugh) Brienne and Sansa chapters. ImJasonH fucked around with this message at 16:29 on Aug 8, 2011 |
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Aug 8, 2011 15:04
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SmugDogMillionaire posted:It's Theon. He's having a psychotic break and talking to his reflection in one of the shattered panes of glass from the greenhouse. I think that's a legit theory. GRRM made a point of noting that he can still hold a dagger, and Theon knows Winterfell better than anybody else. Plus with his mental state, having times where he just snaps, kills a dude, and then doesn't remember it as Reek is very believable given how he has internalized that he must never even think ill of Ramsey.
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Aug 8, 2011 16:20
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ImJasonH posted:I just finished ADwD, and Dany's last chapter felt so out of place. We have this big omg shocker, then Dany lollygagging around in a field with her Dragon for 30 loving pages. Oh then Varys being a crazy badass and loving all the poo poo up. The Dany plot line was, by and large, silly. She lays waste to entire cities and then parks her rear end in Mereen, where she decides to spend her days involved in boring court intrigues and ultimately marries some random schmoe who obviously is going to betray her/is the Harpy/whatever. And it goes on and on for hundreds of pages. Literally no one cares about Quentyn, and obviously GRRM didn't either. The whole point of him traveling to Mereen was to free the two smaller dragons? Oh and he gets fried to a crisp in the process? Gimme a break. There wasn't anything more interesting to do with him as a character? The Cersei chapter, with its emphasis on how crappy she looks now naked and with her oval office shaved, was hysterical. I guess the only cool thing that came out of that, besides stretch marks and shaved box, is Zombie Mountain, but we'll have to wait for the next book to see what becomes of that, and the next book is never coming out. As I've said before, Jon getting stabbed was completely tepid due to the prologue - we all know he's just gonna warg his way out of it. I thought the Aegon thing was kinda dumb too. After everything that's been built up over five books, out comes mystical Aegon to save the day/gently caress poo poo up? Yawn. It's pretty clear GRRM shot his wad with ASoS and hasn't had a clear idea of where to take the series since.
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Aug 8, 2011 16:25
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Theon is a better Faceless Man than Arya ever will be.
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Aug 8, 2011 16:26
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