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wellwhoopdedooo posted:Abercrombie has a way to go before he's one of the greats. Finishing a story would be a good start--all we've got are bits and pieces, you never know, he could Steven King us. He's pretty good though, I don't think he's actually going to make a spider eat Bayaz, and I like his work more than I like "better" writers'. Way of Kings was a good book, but it suffered from the usual Sanderson problem: Characterization. Sanderson is an incredible worldbuilder, but his characters are often flat and one dimensional, or poorly written. Shallan is a good example of this. Yeah, she's got some mysterious crap going on and I'm interested to find out how she got her Shardblade but that's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about personalities, dialogue, and how the character comes across on the page. As a straight up, page by page character, she's pretty bad, as are a lot of the characters in WoK and his other books. Hell, as much as I like Kaladin, even he's not that complicated or nuanced. Worldbuilding is well and good, but what you ultimately remember are the characters and how they draw you in. That's why Martin is basically the undisputed king of the genre right now: His characters. He puts so much loving personality and depth into every single character he writes (even minor ones) and makes it convincing that they seem real to us. As I've said, I love Sanderson and have read everything he's done, but he hasn't written a single character in any of his books that's half as realistic and multidimensional as someone like Jaime Lannister. There are sequences in ASoIaF where not much happens for about a hundred pages, but you still read the poo poo out of it and stay up way past your bedtime because the writing is so damned great. Sanderson isn't there, not even close. WoK, as I said, was a good book, and I loved it. But he's not at that upper tier (yet). I brought up Abercrombie because he's another example of someone who writes fanastic characters. In fact, I'd say that Abercrombie isn't even close to Sanderson when it comes to pure worldbuilding, but I enjoyed Abercrombie's stuff a lot more overall because the people inhabiting his world kicked so much rear end. This isn't about Sanderson not being high class literature or something, it's about Shallan making one of her absolutely hideous puns and it being so bad that I want to skip her chapters at times. I'm not saying all this because I want to needlessly rip on Sanderson. As I've tried to say multiple times, I like his stuff. I just think he has a lot of room to grow, and I hope he does.
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Aug 10, 2011 21:45
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Homura posted:Couldn't agree more with this. I feel like the book is a huge buildup and a -giant- climax at the end. It's a much better formula than the traditional climax-anticlimax end, which leaves me sorta depressed. I don't mind it but it would be nice if it were a bit less abrupt in starting up.
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Aug 10, 2011 21:48
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A Nice Boy posted:I'm not saying all this because I want to needlessly rip on Sanderson. As I've tried to say multiple times, I like his stuff. I just think he has a lot of room to grow, and I hope he does. We definitely have criticized him on these aspects before. Especially when he's trying to write witty or funny characters, it's just really does not turn out well. Shallan and Breeze were pretty bad when they were trying to be witty. As far as the avalanche, I don't mind it, because it tells me that he was actually planning poo poo out and knew what would happen at the end, unlike some authors *cough*Gurm*cough* who have no idea where the hell they're going with their series. But when I brought it up as a problem, I said that because Sanderson himself views it as a problem.
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Aug 10, 2011 22:14
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I just realized the two lawmen of Alloy of law are "Wax" and "Wayne". As in wax and wane. That's pretty awesome. Not a bad pun, considering how Sanderson usually does witty. Or tries to.
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Aug 11, 2011 02:52
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Mahlertov Cocktail posted:And yet at one point there were three ASoIaF threads running at one time. Yeah book goons will read it and endlessly talk about it but it's not literature you see because they all got made fun of as kids for reading it and now they're so uptight they honestly care if complete strangers see them reading it in public.
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Aug 11, 2011 03:38
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Maytag posted:Yeah book goons will read it and endlessly talk about it but it's not literature you see because they all got made fun of as kids for reading it and now they're so uptight they honestly care if complete strangers see them reading it in public. I have no idea what you just said. A Nice Boy posted:I brought up Abercrombie because he's another example of someone who writes fanastic characters. In fact, I'd say that Abercrombie isn't even close to Sanderson when it comes to pure worldbuilding, but I enjoyed Abercrombie's stuff a lot more overall because the people inhabiting his world kicked so much rear end. I remember worlds just as much as individual characters. I view it as "that's a cool alternate reality, I wonder what it would be like to actually live there." Abercrombie's world building is so slow and boring that I haven't been able to finish his first book.
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Aug 11, 2011 04:12
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subx posted:I remember worlds just as much as individual characters. I view it as "that's a cool alternate reality, I wonder what it would be like to actually live there." Abercrombie's world building is so slow and boring that I haven't been able to finish his first book. He doesn't world build, it's just europe. And while I liked his stuff it's waaaaaaay over rated and over hyped.
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Aug 11, 2011 04:30
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IRQ posted:He doesn't world build, it's just europe. Oh, I just know I start them and lose interest pretty quickly. I couldn't even tell you any of the names in the book.
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Aug 11, 2011 04:34
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subx posted:Oh, I just know I start them and lose interest pretty quickly. I couldn't even tell you any of the names in the book. It's basically UK vs Ottomans/Generic Middle East, politically. The characters are really cool though, and there's a lot more going on than it seems at first.
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Aug 11, 2011 04:35
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subx posted:Oh, I just know I start them and lose interest pretty quickly. I couldn't even tell you any of the names in the book. I like Abercrombie, but I can understand this feeling. I have currently been stalled on The Heroes for like 5 other books now. I really do think he has gotten more praise than he deserves. e: however, Sanderson's books are much lighter reads
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Aug 11, 2011 05:02
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IRQ posted:He doesn't world build, it's just europe. Not to turn it into a Sanderson vs Abercrombie derail, but you could turn that around and say that Sanderson doesn't write multidimensional characters, he just world builds (the opposite of Abercrombie, who barely world builds but has amazing characters). Interestingly enough, each of those authors abilities would combine to make one kick rear end author/book - it would be like a George RR Martin who actually releases books in a timely manner! 
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Aug 11, 2011 07:44
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arioch posted:http://www.tor.com/stories/2011/08/the-alloy-of-law-chapter-five Wayne is a retard, and Wax isn't much better. 35 badguys and Wayne wants to go at them with his two duelling canes. and Wax's reaction is "derp the bystanders!" No guys. If you go at thirty-five well-armed thugs you're going to get your poo poo pushed in.
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Aug 11, 2011 07:48
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Affi posted:Wayne is a retard, and Wax isn't much better. Speed bubbles and a feruchemist who can change how much he weighs sounds like a pretty good equalizer. Depending on what allomancers are on the other side, of course.
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Aug 11, 2011 16:04
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Considering wax can push bullets off course, Wayne can heal himself at will, and poo poo's already gone sideways, there's worse courses of action.
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Aug 11, 2011 16:28
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Wait.... Wax and Wayne??? Did anyone else point this out here? That's really cheesy Brandon.
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Aug 11, 2011 17:38
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http://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/j5spj/if_you_were_transported_into_the_world_of_a_book/c29gmic?context=1 This is why people like Sanderson.
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Aug 11, 2011 17:51
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Victorkm posted:Wait.... yeah somebody a couple posts up praised it as an example of good Sanderson humor. That's literally Stockholm Syndrome talking though
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Aug 11, 2011 17:53
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Democratic Pirate posted:http://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/j5spj/if_you_were_transported_into_the_world_of_a_book/c29gmic?context=1 Holy gently caress that owns so much.
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Aug 11, 2011 18:19
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Cartoon Man posted:Holy gently caress that owns so much. I am so loving jealous. Having a bit character in WoK would be loving epic.
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Aug 11, 2011 19:21
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Liesmith posted:yeah somebody a couple posts up praised it as an example of good Sanderson humor. That's literally Stockholm Syndrome talking though Comparitively good. He didnt rub it in like he usually does with a big ok "LOOK HOW WITTY THIS IS!!!" sign.
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Aug 11, 2011 19:21
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Affi posted:I am so loving jealous. Having a bit character in WoK would be loving epic. My only demand to Sanderson would be that I am killed by Szeth.
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Aug 11, 2011 19:30
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Cartoon Man posted:My only demand to Sanderson would be that I am killed by Szeth. I'd love to be a henchman for some badguy.
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Aug 11, 2011 19:46
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Cartoon Man posted:Holy gently caress that owns so much. I normally don't care about book signings but damned if I don't want to go to one just to shake that man's hand and tell him how awesome he is.
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Aug 11, 2011 20:11
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This is funny as hell. http://www.reddit.com/r/Fantasy/comments/jf92c/for_the_way_of_kings_fans_interested_in_being/c2bmqds
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Aug 11, 2011 20:34
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Ugly In The Morning posted:Comparitively good. He didnt rub it in like he usually does with a big ok "LOOK HOW WITTY THIS IS!!!" sign. It's OK Ugly In The Morning, you're safe now. We'll get you the help you need
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Aug 11, 2011 20:51
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Liesmith posted:It's OK Ugly In The Morning, you're safe now. We'll get you the help you need I think what's-her-face in Warbreaker's dialogue broke me a little on the inside. I won't even get started on Shallan.
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Aug 12, 2011 00:54
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He is so badass. Love Sanderson. Things like that are why, despite any complaining I do about shallow characters or bad puns, I will support the hell of out this dude.
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Aug 12, 2011 09:55
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Ugly In The Morning posted:I think what's-her-face in Warbreaker's dialogue broke me a little on the inside. I won't even get started on Shallan. I've been re-reading Way of Kings and just go to Wit's worst line. (insults / in-sluts)
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Aug 12, 2011 11:34
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He should just write the characters and when it comes time for a witticism he should contract someone funny to write that part for him.
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Aug 12, 2011 12:14
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Cartoon Man posted:I've been re-reading Way of Kings and just go to Wit's worst line. (insults / in-sluts) I honestly hate Wit and suspect that he's got the shard of being an unfunny douche, and has used it to undermine people's sense of humor on every world. Every time a character acts like an unfunny douche, he gains power; now he is strong enough to fix everything and restore that magic crystal thing but it's against his nature as a douche The tragedy is he started out as a comedian but was corrupted by his shard. That's also why he's so mean to the retarded/crippled son and tries to justify it as being for the kid's own good. douchegod
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Aug 12, 2011 12:20
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Here's something interesting. This is NPR's top 100 Sci-fi / Fantasy books of all time as voted by its users/readers. http://www.npr.org/2011/08/11/139085843/your-picks-top-100-science-fiction-fantasy-books?sc=fb&cc=fp Mistborn took #43 and Way of Kings took 71.
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Aug 12, 2011 12:23
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Cartoon Man posted:Here's something interesting. This is NPR's top 100 Sci-fi / Fantasy books of all time as voted by its users/readers. Gateway's not on it, The Stars My Destination isn't on it, Star Wars novels are. American Gods is on this lits, people think it's the 10th best science ficton novel of all time. This subjective list is BULLSHIT
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Aug 12, 2011 12:28
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Steven King is on there. Twice. David. loving. Eddings is on that list.
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Aug 12, 2011 14:02
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As usual, Glen Cooke gets no respect.
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Aug 12, 2011 22:23
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A Nice Boy posted:As usual, Glen Cooke gets no respect. Nor Steven Brust, to champion my usual hobby horse. Though I would certainly speak in favor of Cook as well. And could probably go on naming others for a good while... But forget Eddings. Drizzt is on the list. In think I need to say no more. At least Dragonlance isn't.
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Aug 12, 2011 22:45
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A Nice Boy posted:As usual, Glen Cooke gets no respect. yeah seriously any of his books other than Garret P.I. could be on there. the Starfishers trilogy, the Swordbearer, The Dragon Never Sleeps, Dark War, instrumalities of the night, the first three Black Company books, any of em should be in that list. What idiot would put The Malazan Book of the Fallen on there and leave Glen Cook off? That's like having a list of great books and putting Pride and Prejudice and Zombies on there but not putting anything by Jane Austen in. Not only is what they have not any good, it's derivative poo poo and what it is derived from IS good
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Aug 12, 2011 23:49
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Book of the New Sun narrowly edges out Star Wars fan fiction for spot #87.
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Aug 13, 2011 00:05
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SmugDogMillionaire posted:Book of the New Sun narrowly edges out Star Wars fan fiction for spot #87. Well, let's be honest, a book where the protagonist tortures, kills, then eats the love of his life is never going to be exactly mainstream.
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Aug 13, 2011 01:19
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Jellibean posted:Well, let's be honest, a book where the protagonist tortures, kills, then eats the love of his life is never going to be exactly mainstream. Actually Stranger in a Strange Land is #17 on that list
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Aug 13, 2011 02:32
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Liesmith posted:Actually Stranger in a Strange Land is #17 on that list I cannot grok how anyone would anyone put that...thing on a list
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Aug 13, 2011 07:54
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