- Brown Moses
- Feb 22, 2002
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Big news for Syria:
quote:Reuters: Obama to impose "very tough" sanctions on Syria and will call on President Assad to step down.
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Aug 18, 2011 14:10
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- Adbot
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ADBOT LOVES YOU
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Apr 25, 2024 16:20
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- Xandu
- Feb 19, 2006
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It's hard to be humble when you're as great as I am.
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Scratch Monkey posted:
I'm curious what further sanctions can the west impose on Syria.
It'll probably be on individuals within the government, including on Bashar al-Assad, who wasn't targeted by the earlier round of sanctions.
I think asking/demanding he leave is pretty irrelevant, though. Based on the announcement, the sanctions aren't going through the UN, either.
edit: Here's the joint French/UK/German statement and Clinton also just gave some remarks saying that now is the time for Assad to leave and that the Syrian people deserve dignity, etc.
http://www.number10.gov.uk/news/joint-uk-french-and-german-statement-on-syria/ posted:
“The Syrian authorities have ignored the urgent appeals made over recent days by the United Nations Security Council, by numerous States in the region, the Gulf Cooperation Council and by the Secretaries-General of the League of Arab States and of the Organization of Islamic Cooperation. They continue to cruelly and violently repress their people and flatly refuse to fulfil their legitimate aspirations. They have ignored the voices of the Syrian people and continuously misled them and the international community with empty promises.
“France, Germany and the United Kingdom reiterate their utter condemnation of this bloody repression of peaceful and courageous demonstrators and the massive violations of human rights which President Assad and his authorities have been committing for months. We are actively supporting further strong EU sanctions against the regime of President Assad.
“We urge the Syrian regime to stop all violence immediately, to release all prisoners of conscience and to allow free access to the United Nations for an independent assessment of the situation.
“Our three countries believe that President Assad, who is resorting to brutal military force against his own people and who is responsible for the situation, has lost all legitimacy and can no longer claim to lead the country. We call on him to face the reality of the complete rejection of his regime by the Syrian people and to step aside in the best interests of Syria and the unity of its people.
“Violence in Syria must stop now. Like other Arab peoples during recent months, the Syrians demand that their rights to liberty, dignity and to choose freely their leaders be recognised. We will continue to work with the Syrian people, countries in the region and our international partners, with a central role for the United Nations, to support their demands and achieve a peaceful and democratic transition.”
And the relevant part of Obama's statement
http://dyn.politico.com/members/forums/thread.cfm?catid=15&subcatid=52&threadid=5817828 posted:
The United States cannot and will not impose this transition upon Syria. It is up to the Syrian people to choose their own leaders, and we have heard their strong desire that there not be foreign intervention in their movement. What the United States will support is an effort to bring about a Syria that is democratic, just, and inclusive for all Syrians. We will support this outcome by pressuring President Assad to get out of the way of this transition, and standing up for the universal rights of the Syrian people along with others in the international community.
As a part of that effort, my Administration is announcing unprecedented sanctions to deepen the financial isolation of the Assad regime and further disrupt its ability to finance a campaign of violence against the Syrian people. I have signed a new Executive Order requiring the immediate freeze of all assets of the Government of Syria subject to U.S. jurisdiction and prohibiting U.S. persons from engaging in any transaction involving the Government of Syria. This E.O. also bans U.S. imports of Syrian-origin petroleum or petroleum products; prohibits U.S. persons from having any dealings in or related to Syria’s petroleum or petroleum products; and prohibits U.S. persons from operating or investing in Syria. We expect today’s actions to be amplified by others.
We recognize that it will take time for the Syrian people to achieve the justice they deserve. There will be more struggle and sacrifice. It is clear that President Assad believes that he can silence the voices of his people by resorting to the repressive tactics of the past. But he is wrong. As we have learned these last several months, sometimes the way things have been is not the way that they will be. It is time for the Syrian people to determine their own destiny, and we will continue to stand firmly on their side."
Xandu fucked around with this message at 15:26 on Aug 18, 2011
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Aug 18, 2011 15:22
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- Brown Moses
- Feb 22, 2002
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Here's a new report from Zawiyah. Seems the Gaddafi forces are back to the old "leave snipers everywhere and shell the city from outside" tactic that failed in Misrata. It seems impossible that with NATO air cover they'll be able to mount a counterattack and take Zawiyah back.
Without fuel coming from Tunisia and Zawiyah the regime isn't going to be able to move around the country too much either, so if the rebels keep attacking different towns they just aren't going to be able to keep up, and I'd imagine most of Gaddafi's forces are defending the frontlines, not the towns and cities behind the frontlines.
That's not such an issue with Brega and Zliten, but it seems like the rebels having broken out of Misrata and started heading to Sirte, and the Nafusa rebels are heading south, so Gaddafi won't be able to reinforce any towns the rebels try to capture.
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Aug 18, 2011 15:26
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- Zeroisanumber
- Oct 23, 2010
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Nap Ghost
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I imagine the rebel response will be something on the order of: gently caress your cease-fire, we're coming for your heads.
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Aug 18, 2011 15:35
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- Brown Moses
- Feb 22, 2002
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Yeah, the other options is to attack it directly, which will be a bloodbath, or seige it, which will be a humanitarian disaster.
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Aug 18, 2011 15:57
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- Brown Moses
- Feb 22, 2002
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Matthew Price just tweeted a couple of things from Tripoli:
quote:The #Tripoli I am allowed to see in #Libya feels like a city in denial. I can't see a way out for Gaddafi. NATO/west/rebels all determined. It feels unfair to #Gaddafi #Libya loyalists, but the pressure is building and they are not in a good position right now.
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Aug 18, 2011 16:06
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- Brown Moses
- Feb 22, 2002
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Maj Gen Nick Pope just tweeted the following
quote:Tues am: RAF aircraft destroyed a military staging post near Zlitan with a pair of Paveway guided bombs.
Tues eve: RAF & allied aircraft took part in coordinated & accurate strike by NATO on a large command compound at Hun in central
Hun compound was used by former regime leaders to coordinate attacks on the Libyan people.
Tues eve: 11 Paveway bombs were dropped by our aircraft on military targets within Hun compound including the central headquarters facility.
Wed am: Military command node in Zlitan destroyed
Wed am: Reconnaissance patrols conducted precision strikes on former regime facilities at Sabratah.
Wed am: Former regime facilities at Sabratah suffered severe damage and it is reported that it is now in the hands of the Free Libyan Forces
Wed pm: RAF Patrol identified tug boat commandeered as naval patrol craft being used by pro-Qadhafi troops to redeploy along the coast.
Wed am: RAF patrol engaged commandeered naval patrol craft: direct hit was scored with a laser guided Paveway bomb which sank the vessel
RAF VC10 and Tristar tankers, and Sentry and Sentinel surveillance aircraft, provided extensive support to these and other NATO missions.
Since 19/3/11 RN, RAF & Army Air Corps strikes have damaged or destroyed 870 former regime targets which posed a threat to the Libyan people
Colonel Qadhafi is reportedly claiming that NATO has attacked the historic remains of the ancient city of Lepcis Magna. This is nonsense.
On Mon, RAF did attack psychological warfare centre over a mile from Lepcis Magna. All 4 bombs scored direct hits on their proper target.
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Aug 18, 2011 16:41
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- Brown Moses
- Feb 22, 2002
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quote:Libya: the importance of Zawiya to the rebels
The road to Tripoli runs straight through Zawiya.
Control of the town and its lifeline to the Tunisian border gives the rebels a formidable launching pad for an assault on the capital, 30 miles to the east. Access to the oil produced by the refinery on the outskirts of town is more a bonus than the main prize.
Even without the black gold the rebel leadership covets, it has clearly established other means of keeping its ramshackle military moving. For the past five months the key goal has been to control the road and the supply line that matters – the one that runs 100 miles west to the Tunisian border.
This flat desert highway has kept Gaddafi's Libya viable since February. His envoys have used it to travel to meet would-be peacemakers and to ask allies for money and guns. His wife and daughter crossed the border in May to sit the war out in Belarus.
With the border now effectively closed to Gaddafi and his loyalists, he has nowhere left to run. The rebels, meanwhile, will sharply ramp up orders for things that matter to their campaign — providing the Tunisians are on board.
They could also, presumably, take charge of the Libyan side of the border crossing, as their counterparts in the east did when they ousted Gaddafi's army in February. All of this would allow rebel leaders to prepare for the main game – an eventual assault on Tripoli. Short of a last-minute climbdown from Gaddafi – something he has vowed never to do – such a move seems inevitable.
After many months of stumbles and miscalculation and billions of dollars of European and US ordnance being dropped from the sky, the capital is now within range. The rebel armies are configured in a classic pincer movement; in the west in Zawiya, and in central Libya outside Misrata, where they appear to have finally won the upper hand against a resilient foe.
The rebels in the east, where it all began, may also take heart from the breakthrough in Zawiya and push west from Libya's second oil town of Brega, where Gaddafi's troops have had them pinned down all summer.
Zawiya will have done wonders for morale. The fact that the breakthrough took place during Ramadan will probably give it extra impetus. For an exhausted, beleaguered and out-manoeuvred Gaddafi, it will have had the opposite effect.
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Aug 18, 2011 16:48
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- Xandu
- Feb 19, 2006
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It's hard to be humble when you're as great as I am.
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In case you need a laugh:
http://english.alarabiya.net/articles/2011/08/17/162797.html posted:
Former Egyptian president Hosni Mubarak has criticized President Bashar Al Assad’s crimes in Syria, advising him to respond to the will of his people and step down, Egyptian newspaper Al Gomhouria reported on Wednesday, quoting a “source close” to Mr. Mubarak.
Mr. Mubarak reportedly made the comments from a special wing of the International Medical Center where he is being held during his trial.
Mr. Mubarak was in a state of “grief and depression” after losing most of his personal security guards when he was transferred to the prison hospital, the newspaper quoted the source as saying. The former president also expressed his sadness over the start of his trial on the first day of the Muslim holy month of Ramadan, recalling the execution of former Iraqi president Saddam Hussein on the Muslim holy day of Eid Al Adha, according to the newspaper.
...
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Aug 18, 2011 17:22
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- Zeroisanumber
- Oct 23, 2010
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Nap Ghost
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Xandu posted:
In case you need a laugh:
"You're doing what I would have done if the army had let me do what I wanted to do, like you're doing. Stop doing that."
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Aug 18, 2011 17:37
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- Sivias
- Dec 12, 2006
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I think we can just sit around and just talk about our feelings.
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Do you think Syrian protests would have been more successful if they had the internet more on a scale that Egypt had?
(Yes, it was shut down - but it was so ingrained in the Egyptian culture that the government couldn't control it at that point)
Of course it's not the only reason the majority of the Syrian military apparently has no problem shelling it's own people. But if the prevalence of social media had a greater place in Syrian culture, would the army still be doing what they're doing?
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Aug 18, 2011 17:48
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- Brown Moses
- Feb 22, 2002
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Latest NATO report, back to reporting locations and accurate totals:
quote:
Sorties conducted 17 AUGUST: 130
Strike sorties conducted 17 AUGUST:50
Key Hits 17 AUGUST:
In the vicinity of Brega: 3 Rocket Launcher, 2 Tanks.
In the vicinity of Az Zawiyah: 2 Armed Vehicles, 1 Military Boat.
In the vicinity of Badr: 4 Armed Vehicles.
In the vicinity of Tripoli: 1 Military Facility, 1 Radar, 2 Surface to Air Transloaders, 3 Surface to Air Launchers, 2 Surface to Surface Launchers.
In the vicinity of Waddan: 2 Ammo Storage Facility.
In the vicinity of Zlitan: 2 Tanks.
Note that on August 16th "a total of 19,011 sorties, including 7, 223 strike sorties*, have been conducted.", then today it's "a total of 19,383 sorties, including 7, 349 strike sorties*, have been conducted.". So minus 50 today, that would make 76 for yesterday, when they only gave an approximate figure of 50.
Another update from Zawiyah oil refinery
quote:I'm in the back of a rebel pick-up truck now, driving just past the entrance to the Zawiya oil refinery. A few days ago, this place was in the hands of Col Gaddafi's forces.
I can see some of their burnt-out pick-up trucks with the remains of a large machine gun. There's clearly been a fierce fight here, but this place is now under the control of rebel forces.
And that is another major blow to Col Gaddafi; they cut the road to Tunisia; they're in control of this oil refinery, a key strategic lifeline for the Gaddafi regime.
But as we drive through here, in the distance, there are large columns of thick grey smoke rising from the city of Zawiya. There is still intense fighting going on here, and the rebels are not absolutely in secure control of the city yet.
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Aug 18, 2011 17:50
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- Sivias
- Dec 12, 2006
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I think we can just sit around and just talk about our feelings.
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Brown Moses posted:
Note that on August 16th "a total of 19,011 sorties, including 7, 223 strike sorties*, have been conducted.", then today it's "a total of 19,383 sorties, including 7, 349 strike sorties*, have been conducted.". So minus 50 today, that would make 76 for yesterday, when they only gave an approximate figure of 50.
This is concerning. Have they given any information on the specifics of all the 76 strikes and where/what they were for? They've been so rigorous and stern with reporting so precisely.
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Aug 18, 2011 17:56
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- Brown Moses
- Feb 22, 2002
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Sivias posted:
This is concerning. Have they given any information on the specifics of all the 76 strikes and where/what they were for? They've been so rigorous and stern with reporting so precisely.
quote:Approximate sorties conducted 16 AUGUST: 100
Approximate strike sorties conducted 16 AUGUST: 50
Key Hits 16 AUGUST:
2 Military Storage Facilities
1 Anti-aircraft gun
5 Military Vehicles
2 Surface to Air missile trailers
1 Surface to Air missile launchers
1 Command and Control node
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Aug 18, 2011 18:00
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- Sivias
- Dec 12, 2006
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I think we can just sit around and just talk about our feelings.
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Oh, so there really wasn't any information necessarily left out, it was just a PR move?
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Aug 18, 2011 18:02
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- Brown Moses
- Feb 22, 2002
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Well they just switched back to the same format, so it's just a really odd blip in the way they've reported things, especially as that report list 50 strikes, but details for only 12 of them.
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Aug 18, 2011 18:05
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- Xandu
- Feb 19, 2006
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It's hard to be humble when you're as great as I am.
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Sivias posted:
Do you think Syrian protests would have been more successful if they had the internet more on a scale that Egypt had?
(Yes, it was shut down - but it was so ingrained in the Egyptian culture that the government couldn't control it at that point)
Of course it's not the only reason the majority of the Syrian military apparently has no problem shelling it's own people. But if the prevalence of social media had a greater place in Syrian culture, would the army still be doing what they're doing?
Maybe, I'm not convinced social media was all that relevant in the Egypt protests. Activists are still able to get videos and information out at a similar pass as in Egypt, the major difference in my opinion is the lack of media.
There's the occassional report from a reporter that snuck into Homs or Hama and files an article back, but with Egypt you had al-Jazeera broadcasting non-stop video of what was happening. That was I think instrumental in getting the word out inside and out of Egypt and in forcing the international community's hand.
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Aug 18, 2011 18:08
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- Brown Moses
- Feb 22, 2002
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Sabratha update from Reuters
quote:Libyan rebel forces celebrated the capture of Sabratha on the coast road between the Tunisian border and the capital Tripoli on Thursday, after a four-day battle with pro-Gaddafi government troops.
Securing the city would tighten the insurgents' control over supply lines to the capital from Tunisia, which they all but severed with the capture of Zawiyah closer to Tripoli earlier this week.
A Reuters team in Sabratha, on the coast about 80 km (50 miles) west of Tripoli, said a group of 200 rebels were in the centre of the town firing rifles and anti-aircraft guns into the air in celebration.
Fighters and locals told Reuters the rebels now control 90 percent of the ancient Roman town of Sabratha, and had just pushed forces loyal to Libyan leader Muammar Gaddafi out of its Telel district.
They said the battle for the town had been going on for three or four days.
A local man said the breakthrough came when NATO bombed a military training facility in the centre of Sabratha. After that strike, the rebels stormed the facility and seized weapons.
Sabratha is an ancient Roman town with an amphitheatre and reconstructed theatre where Benito Mussolini watched performances during Italian colonial rule. It is on UNESCO's World Heritage List.
At the entrance to the Roman site, there was no sign of fighting or evidence of any damage, though it was not possible to check the whole site, which stretches over a vast area.
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Aug 18, 2011 18:11
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- Sivias
- Dec 12, 2006
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I think we can just sit around and just talk about our feelings.
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Any news about the Israel retaliation in Gaza?
I admittedly wish I knew more about the Israeli/Arab conflict concerning the Sinai and the West Bank. I think my history classes skipped a lot of modern history concerning the middle east.
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Aug 18, 2011 18:46
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- Mozi
- Apr 4, 2004
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Forms change so fast
Time is moving past
Memory is smoke
Gonna get wider when I die
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Nap Ghost
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NYTimes posted:Israeli forces said they killed seven of the attackers and hours later retaliated further with an airstrike in Gaza. Six Palestinians, several of them members of a militant group, were killed in the strike, according the group’s spokesman and medical officials in Gaza.
That's all that's there right now.
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Aug 18, 2011 19:01
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- Toplowtech
- Aug 31, 2004
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"We aren't losing the war, it's only CGI!"
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Aug 18, 2011 19:04
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- Brown Moses
- Feb 22, 2002
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Another report from Zawiyha:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r1zw0bn1ong
Video of rebels from Misrata capturing the town of Al Hishah, 100km south of the city, on the road to Sirte:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nujvlmtrhII
I'll try to map that as usual.
Alex Crawfords latest audio report from Zawiyah
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Aug 18, 2011 19:13
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- Brown Moses
- Feb 22, 2002
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More from Zeina Khodr of AJE
quote:
Gharyan city in the hands of opposition we went to #Sahban military base; abandoned by govt forces
Opposition in #Gharyan tell me they captured four #Gaddafi loyalists last night, search operations continue
Civilians in #Gharyan say #Gaddafi had armed supporters in the city... They now fled
Gaddafi forces retreated from #Gharyan but they are not far away ... Few kilometers to the south and south east
Gharyan is strategic city ... Lies on main highway from south to #Tripoli, a government supply route
Battle for Ghayran 14/08/11
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OL8VWpTsDhs
Gaddafi is so totally hosed now, so much for stalemate.
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Aug 18, 2011 19:21
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- Namarrgon
- Dec 23, 2008
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Congratulations on not getting fit in 2011!
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So does that mean CQ has no more incoming fuel? At all?
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Aug 18, 2011 19:24
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- Brown Moses
- Feb 22, 2002
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Namarrgon posted:
So does that mean CQ has no more incoming fuel? At all?
Exactly, and Tripoli is also being cut off from natural gas and reliable electrcity. There's already been reports of long power cuts, and that was before they captured the refinery.
Also
quote:Libyan officials: brother of Libyan govt spokesman killed in NATO airstrike
Moussa ibrahim received news by telephone during Iftar meal at Rixos hotel
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Aug 18, 2011 19:28
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- Sivias
- Dec 12, 2006
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I think we can just sit around and just talk about our feelings.
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Is that the super delusional guy who is always talking on behalf of the regime? The guy with his hair falling out?
I can never tell if he sounds like he's full of bullshit, or if he really believes what he's saying and its just the cadence that is lost in translation.
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Aug 18, 2011 19:33
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- Brown Moses
- Feb 22, 2002
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He's the main spokesperson who gives press conferences, like the one today where he told everyone they still had control of the refinery in Zawiyah while at the same time journalists were doing live reports from there.
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Aug 18, 2011 20:10
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- Brown Moses
- Feb 22, 2002
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Here's everything the Rixos journos are saying:
Matthew Chance CNN Senior International Correspondent
quote:Libyan officials: brother of Libyan govt spokesman killed in NATO airstrike
Moussa ibrahim received news by telephone during Iftar meal at Rixos hotel
Brother killed is Hassan Ibrahim, "a volunteer" fighting with gadhafi forces
I watched moussa jump from his chair at the table next to mine, then run out of the hotel restaurant. He collapsed in grief in hall
quote:
Moussa Ibrahim brother killed in #NATO airstrike.
Moussa Ibrahim collapsed after receiving the news over iftar at the #Rixos .officials say it was his younger brother Hasan
Moussa Ibrahim is the spokesman in #Tripoli & a member of the #Gaddafi tribe. Not clear where the strike that killed his brother was.
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Aug 18, 2011 20:17
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- Brown Moses
- Feb 22, 2002
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A good Economist article on the situation in Libya at the moment:
quote:No way out for the colonel
“TODAY Zawiya, tomorrow Tripoli,” cried a rebel fighter as he jumped into his open-top truck and drove across an unprotected plain stretching from a dusty mountain range down to the Mediterranean coast. The lazy idea held by critics of NATO’s intervention in Libya that the incompetence of rebel forces would ensure a stalemate looks less tenable by the day. As the Libyan civil war enters its seventh month, a tipping point leading to the eventual collapse of Muammar Qaddafi’s embattled regime looks near. On August 16th a NATO spokesman declared that the colonel no longer had “an effective operational capability”.
Striking out of their stronghold in the western Nafusa mountains on August 7th with NATO’s help, the rebels quickly took Bir Ghanem on the edge of the desert, shrugging off ineffective shelling by retreating forces. A week later, sweeping along the desert highway in battered pick-up trucks at up to 80mph (130kph), they took control of most of Zawiya, a strategically vital port that is home to the last oil refinery still in the regime’s hands and straddles the road between Tripoli, the capital (30 miles away), and the Tunisian border. The rebels also seized Gharyan, a mainly Berber town 50 miles south of Tripoli that sits on the road to Algeria, a big source of arms for Colonel Qaddafi’s militias. Heavy fighting continued around Zlitan, where rebels advancing from Misrata had less success in breaking the resistance of loyalist forces.
The rebels’ wild dash to Zawiya was a sign of their derring-do and increasing military prowess. Until recently underequipped, they now field not only brand new anti-aircraft guns, mortars and armour-piercing rifles but also looted tanks and home-made rocket launchers. The colonel’s forces—threatened by NATO’s all-seeing aircraft—rarely dare to use armoured vehicles and are reduced to defending themselves with ill-aimed rocket attacks.
Rebel morale is high, even though it is the holy month of Ramadan. Fighters are not expected to fast, although many still do despite extreme heat. “We feel more righteous and the devil is kept at bay—so Qaddafi’s forces are weaker,” says Bashir Ahmed, a fighter. The rebels’ ranks are swelled by young men leaving Tripoli to join their “brothers”, who have their own unit, the Tripoli Revolutionary brigade.
If the rebels can hold on to Zawiya and take Zlitan (which will not be easy), the impact on life in Tripoli will be profound. Fuel is already in desperately short supply, and food prices are rising fast. Shashank Joshi, an associate fellow of the Royal United Services Institute, a British think-tank, says the capital is not hermetically sealed but is effectively under siege.
Mr Joshi believes that many Western analysts underestimated the fighting strength of the rebel forces and their strategic sense of direction. The eastern rebels in Benghazi are too far away to threaten Tripoli directly. But even they are showing signs of progress. Despite fears that the still unexplained murder three weeks ago of their military commander, General Abdel Fatah Younis, would lead to infighting, the strategic oil town of Brega may soon fall into their hands.
One thing is certain: the rebels are getting stronger, while Colonel Qaddafi’s position is crumbling. It may be too soon to talk of an endgame. But the overthrow of the colonel’s 42-year-old regime is getting closer. It could happen quite quickly if the defection of his security chief, Nassr al-Mabrouk Abdullah, who arrived in Cairo on a private plane from Tunisia with nine family members on August 15th, is anything to go by.
Hopes remain in some quarters for a negotiated settlement that would give amnesty to government supporters and offer an exit for the colonel and his family. According to some reports, tentative discussions, mediated by Venezuelan diplomats, have taken place at the Tunisian island resort of Djerba between representatives of the rebels’ National Transitional Council (NTC) and some of Colonel Qaddafi’s ministers. The talks got nowhere. The rebels’ growing confidence that victory is near may make them reluctant to offer concessions. Abdel Elah al-Khatib, a former Jordanian foreign minister appointed by the UN as a special envoy to Libya, is talking to both sides. But his task seems a fruitless one, above all because there is no sign that Colonel Qaddafi is looking for an exit.
In a scratchy-sounding telephone recording broadcast on August 15th the Libyan leader called on supporters to “move forward, challenge, pick up your weapons, go to the fight and liberate Libya inch by inch from the traitors and NATO”. The day before, loyalist forces from his hometown of Sirte fired a Soviet-era Scud ballistic missile at Brega that overshot its target by 50 miles, landing harmlessly in the desert. Some fear that if the colonel thinks his fate is sealed he may embark on an orgy of destruction, perhaps deploying hidden stocks of chemical weapons.
The NTC appears to be placing its hopes on a general uprising in Tripoli as living conditions deteriorate and people realise the colonel is finished. Despite bullish claims by some rebel leaders that it will all be over by the end of Ramadan in less than two weeks’ time, it makes more sense to tighten the noose around the capital further and wait for events to take their course rather than fight for the city street by street in a bloody showdown.
Lindsey Hilsum tweeted some stuff from Zawiyah
quote:Libya rebels took us round #zawiya refinery today. They say they drove out #ghaddafi soldiers overnight.
Rebel cdr #zawiya refinery said #ghaddafi soldiers came ashore by boat. #NATO bombed those who fled back to sea. NATO confirms.
Libya rebels in control of #zawiya refinery when we were there this afternoon. Smoke and shelling to the east.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JZOa38JcCcg
Brown Moses fucked around with this message at 20:44 on Aug 18, 2011
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Aug 18, 2011 20:39
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- Brown Moses
- Feb 22, 2002
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Here's a list of Twitter accounts belonging to journalists who are in Libya at the moment, if you want to follow things as they are happening.
The Nafusa front
Lindsey Hilsum Channel 4 News International Editor
Zeina Khodr AJE
Alex Crawford Sky News Special Correspondent
Jadu, Nafusa
Ann Marlowe
Benghazi
Rob Crilly Pakistan correspondent of The Telegraph
Tony Birtley AJE
Tripoli
Missy Ryan Reuters
Matthew Chance
Dario Lopez Associated Press Senior Photographer
Matthew Price BBC
Jomana Karadsheh CNN
Misrata
Andrew Simmons AJE
Trapped in Tunisia
Ian Woods Sky News
I've also put them in this twitter list, shout if you think I missed any.
Lindsey Hilsum of Channel 4 has also started a Facebook page for her Libyan adventures.
Brown Moses fucked around with this message at 21:44 on Aug 18, 2011
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Aug 18, 2011 21:10
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- Xandu
- Feb 19, 2006
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It's hard to be humble when you're as great as I am.
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UN's factfinding mission in Syria just published their report covering March through July.
http://www.ohchr.org/Documents/countries/SY/Syria_Report_2011-08-17.pdf
Key parts:
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Both the armed forces and the security forces are involved in the suppression of peaceful protests and related violations across Syria. The civilian police has also been deployed in urban areas for crowd control purposes. In addition, an Alawite civilian militia known as Shabbiha participated in the commission of abuses against civilians.
According to multiple accounts obtained by the Mission, foreign fighters were said to have been present and active during operations in several locations.
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Many of the victims and witnesses interviewed by the mission identified the heads of the security and intelligence branches in their governorates or cities as having ordered the commission of human rights abuses, including summary executions, arbitrary arrests and torture.
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The Ministry of Interior’s civil police personnel are divided into several forces, including riot police which was deployed during the quelling of protests and demonstrations.
They were often on the front lines, usually equipped with shields and helmets with visors and armed with Kalashnikovs, batons and tear gas canisters.
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The Mission gathered corroborative eye-witness statements with respect to numerous summary executions, including 353 named victims. In addition, the Mission found corroborative accounts indicating that members of the security forces posed as civilians in order to cause unrest and portray an inaccurate picture of events. Civilians were often able to distinguish themselves from these security forces because the latter wore colour-coded armbands.
Several types of security forces, as well as the army, were deployed to the demonstrations but were clearly not trained in crowd control capabilities.
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Reports from a wide variety of sources assert that the demonstrations were mostly peaceful. Civilians of all ages participated in protests and often carried olive branches or showed their bare chests to indicate they had no weapons. Government controlled media channels reported these events inaccurately, in most cases attributing disturbances to ‘terrorist’ elements.
The majority of killings reported were due to live ammunition, coming from security forces, the military and Shabbiha elements, using Kalashnikovs and other guns. Reports from witnesses indicate that there was a widespread modus operandi to kill civilians by using a) forces on the ground, b) snipers on rooftops and c) air power.
Consistent with an apparent shoot-to-kill policy, most of the victims’ bullet wounds were located in the head, chest and general upper body area. Interviews were conducted with a number of former soldiers who had deserted the army, the police and different branches of the security forces. They stated that they received clear orders to use live ammunition against protestors. Those who did not shoot civilians were shot from behind by other security officers and Shabbiha units. Analysis by the Mission’s public order expert of video footage showing security operations underscores the lack of training in riot control by most of the forces deployed against civilians.
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Witnesses attested to the use of tanks, heavy machine guns mounted on antipersonnel carriers and helicopters in urban areas. Security forces also used rocketpropelled grenades and grenade launchers mounted on AK47s against civilians in other areas.
quote:
86. From the 180 witness accounts taken by the Mission, 98 revealed torture and other inhuman and degrading treatment of civilians by military and security forces, which violate Syria’s obligations under the Convention Against Torture. A clearwidespread or systematic policy appears to have been in place whereby security forces targeted people suspected of having taken part in demonstrations, with a view to intimidating and terrorizing them as a way of quelling protests.
Torture and illtreatment were commonly used to obtain false statements from detainees. Many reports spoke of security forces breaking into people’s homes and beating civilians, including women and children. After mass arrests, security forces and Shabbihaelements transported those detained in buses and trucks to secret detention centres or public stadia, where the victims were then inhumanely treated or tortured.Many victims were repeatedly subjected to torture upon their transfer from one detention facility to another.
Former detainees cited cases of deaths in custody as a result of torture. Others referred to the torture of children. Security agents often forced family members of the deceased to sign a document stating that the person was killed by armed gangs. The Mission documented numerous methods of torture, most of which are known to have been used in Syria over many years. They include severe beatings, electric shocks, suspension for prolonged periods by the limbs, as well as psychological torture and routine humiliation.
The Mission photographed witnesses who bore injuries consistent with the torture alleged. The Mission’s forensic physician examined other victims who were hospitalized after fleeing Syria. Furthermore, victims ofarbitrary arrests declared they were beaten and humiliated with insults referring to their religious, democratic and political beliefs. Many victims reported that those abusing them would make statements like ‘You want freedom, this is your freedom,’ whilst torturing or beating them.
There's lots more in the pdf, it's very detailed.
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Aug 18, 2011 22:17
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- Brown Moses
- Feb 22, 2002
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It's all pretty damning stuff, and confirms the various reports that were coming out of Syria.
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Aug 18, 2011 22:30
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- Brown Moses
- Feb 22, 2002
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There's claims that Israel managed to kill some Egyptian soldiers during their retaliation for the attacks today, so the poo poo might be about to hit the fan.
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Aug 18, 2011 23:10
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- Zeroisanumber
- Oct 23, 2010
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Nap Ghost
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Brown Moses posted:
There's claims that Israel managed to kill some Egyptian soldiers during their retaliation for the attacks today, so the poo poo might be about to hit the fan.
Odd. Some munitions go awry? Supposedly the airstrike hit Gaza, and I hadn't heard of any Egyptian military there.
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Aug 18, 2011 23:52
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- Sivias
- Dec 12, 2006
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I think we can just sit around and just talk about our feelings.
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I listened to an interview on NPR today with an Israeli official and he said they don't view the attack in any way with Egypt. Does this information change that in way?
I would think both Israel and the governance of Egypt doesn't need that right now.
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Aug 18, 2011 23:56
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- Adbot
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ADBOT LOVES YOU
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Apr 25, 2024 16:20
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- Warcabbit
- Apr 26, 2008
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Wedge Regret
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Seriously, what the gently caress, Egypt? Ham, what's going on?
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Aug 19, 2011 00:08
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Aug 18, 2011 14:10
