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Millstone posted:What the gently caress. Are we supposed to be designing the next Lady Gaga record for Martians or something? Is magnetic tape expected to survive the apocalypse? You are a serial threadshitter so I reply half-aasedly by saying that there have already been situations where we have had to build machines to play back material from the same century that no longer had original machines.
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Aug 24, 2011 03:56
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Millstone posted:I don't understand the problem with digital files; they are backed up with speed and ease. This is how digital piracy is such a problem. Copy the files to a number of secure places and there you have it. Why would nobody have a working copy of Pro Tools at any point in time, the most popular recording software? I'm sure before or at the time that Pro Tools or what have you gets discontinued, there will be more than enough warning and compatibility. Your thought only goes halfway. First off, backing up is easy only when something is accessible to be backed up and you choose to back it up. Another problem too is the medium you use to store it. With digital, you need to be able to actually read and 'understand' the data that's written on it. So even if you have backups, you have to ensure that your backups can interface with modern hardware. This is a problem for the 1980 Domesday Project, which was done on a laserdisc designed for computers. Sure, we have the disc, but we don't have anything that can read the disc. It's useless now. As to "why would nobody have protools," keep in mind, today, it is popular. Twenty or thirty years down the line? And will people still have computers that can use protools? Sure, it seems impossible, but you never know what issues could arise. As to your final point, that can only come if you ignored EVERYTHING that has lead to this discussion. Record companies have shown time and again that they don't give a poo poo about properly maintaining their catalog. For instance, with the previous Kinks issues, Ray Davies said that they used copies on a lot of the masters instead of getting the original tapes. Or how about the New Order reissues which had bonus tracks sourced from vinyl on the first pressings? Or how about the multitude of bands that have discovered that the multitracks to their albums from the 90s are missing. Yeah, these record companies will worry about converting the digital masters made by some small punk band they signed by mistake because they wanted to get into the alternative rock market in the 90s.
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Aug 24, 2011 04:52
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Ron Burgundy posted:You are a serial threadshitter so I reply half-aasedly by saying that there have already been situations where we have had to build machines to play back material from the same century that no longer had original machines. The main advantage to analog archiving (aside from obvious digital vs. analog quality arguments) is that it will continue to exist after people cease to care. Which sounds like an "eh" statement but there's a lot of stuff to archive and not all of it will find somebody to maintain digital backups
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Aug 24, 2011 05:10
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Farts Domino posted:I don't know, I think he's got some fair points and yours only seems to support it. I think the real advantage of digital is the immutability of the archival copy. While you can corrupt it, sure, you can make multiple perfect backups and read those backups perfectly even on low-end equipment. It's true that you can make multiple perfect backups, but the main problems is more of a software/hardware issue than it is a data issue. Depending on what they are using, digital storage can be highly volatile. Now of course, let's not go and say "All hail analog" without considering the flaws. Playing it will create distortion. A poorly made tape needs to be baked before it can be played once the oxide breaks down, and even then, you can only do that a few times before the tape is unplayable forever. Finally, any backups can't be perfect.
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Aug 24, 2011 12:59
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When it comes down to it, any analog storage medium is also potentially usable as a digital storage medium, and you can make it as redundant as you want by adding more and more layers of different types of ECC (the tradeoff being you need more medium the more ECC you add).
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Aug 25, 2011 02:31
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 INSOUND WAREHOUSE SALE TOMORROW fozzie dunlop posted:We'll be having another warehouse sale at the Insound HQ on August 25 at 5 PM. We're at 61 Greenpoint Avenue, Suite 225 in Brooklyn, so come on by if you feel like saving on shipping and meeting the folks behind the website!
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Aug 25, 2011 04:12
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But I guess I should rephrase my earlier question: What is the best turntable/cartridge combo, fidelity-wise, for $600 or under? Size/weight is my second factor after fidelity.
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Aug 25, 2011 07:24
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Best bang for buck is SL-1200 and a M97xE. Keeping the 1200 as a base and depending how cheap you can get it, the next step up with carts is to something like a Denon 103, Ortofon 2M blue and Grado Gold. You will not find a better motor unit under $1000 than the Technics. The arm isn't the most amazing thing in the world, but it isn't as bad as some like to say. I have heard that the 2Ms work particularly well with the Technics, but I am yet to try it myself. Ron Burgundy fucked around with this message at 08:11 on Aug 25, 2011 |
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Aug 25, 2011 08:02
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Is there really not a turntable as good as the 1200 that's belt-drive and not huge/heavy?
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Aug 25, 2011 08:30
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Socket Ryanist posted:Is there really not a turntable as good as the 1200 that's belt-drive and not huge/heavy? There are no good lightweight record players. Mass equals damping (well, not really, but close enough). People with fancy high-end record players that don't necessarily weigh a lot (the fanciest ones do, however) spend hundreds or thousands on stands. The SL-1200 Mk II doesn't need a stand. You can put it on top of your refrigerator and it will work just as well. There are other players that are just as good or better but not much lighter. Also, you need a full-size turntable platter and the arm needs to sit at a certain point so size is what it is. A linear tracking table would possibly give a smaller foot-print (and some linear trackers have superior tracking ability which is obviously a bonus for digitizing records) but then you'd either have to know what you'rw getting or know someone who knows about linear tracking tables because most of them are poo poo. While the M97xe works reasonably well with the Techics when the damper is down, it's hardly optimal. Also, belt-drive has no advantages over direct drive per se. There were some lovely DD players made at some point but the SL-1200 was not one of them.
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Aug 25, 2011 10:59
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Jerry Cotton posted:Also, belt-drive has no advantages over direct drive per se. There were some lovely DD players made at some point but the SL-1200 was not one of them.
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Aug 25, 2011 14:08
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I was going to buy a technics or two at some point anyway so I guess I might as well just spring for that. Does anyone know how to best check a used one for defects? Also, no one's mentioned cartridges...
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Aug 25, 2011 14:40
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What's wrong with the 3 others I mentioned? As far as the Technics inspection, the most important thing is any play in the spindle bearing whatsoever, just walk away from that. The tonearm is next, it should move freely in all directions but again not have excess play for example when lightly pulling outward. The speed should be constant when running, speed problems are indicative of a faulty IC and it's a pain in the rear end to replace. Anyone else got any pointers? Ron Burgundy fucked around with this message at 14:50 on Aug 25, 2011 |
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Aug 25, 2011 14:45
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Ron Burgundy posted:What's wrong with the 3 others I mentioned? I've not yet tried one myself but I hear good things about the Denon 103 on the SL-1200 Mark 2 but it's a low-output system so while the cartridge itself is affordable, I would need extra kit to use it. I wonder if the 110 (high-output) is any good?
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Aug 25, 2011 15:54
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Farts Domino posted:A lot of audiophiles will say that belts are quieter. It kind of makes sense but I've never heard much of a difference A lot of  audiophiles will say a lot of stuff. I'd post a couple of links to the good stuff but I think there's already been at least one good thread about that stuff on SA.EDIT: I said stuff thrice. 
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Aug 25, 2011 15:57
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Jerry Cotton posted:I've not yet tried one myself but I hear good things about the Denon 103 on the SL-1200 Mark 2 but it's a low-output system so while the cartridge itself is affordable, I would need extra kit to use it. I wonder if the 110 (high-output) is any good? Sorry Jerry, I meant Socket when I said that other thing. I'm not sure he saw the 3 other carts mentioned in my post. You are right about the m97 though. You bring up an excellent point about the fact that the 103 is MC which I forgot to include. I'm using a pro-ject Phonobox II which can do both MM and MC, sometimes I forget that others are not. Ron Burgundy fucked around with this message at 16:20 on Aug 25, 2011 |
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Aug 25, 2011 16:16
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Ron Burgundy posted:What's wrong with the 3 others I mentioned? Also hooolly poo poo $200 for a cartridge is NOT the price range I was thinking My knowledge in the realm of turntables is limited to stuff that's designed for DJs. DJ turntables and DJ cartridges are designed for things like ultra-high skip resistance, minimal record wear, reverse record travel, et cetera. I am looking for stuff that is similarly priced or cheaper that focuses primarily on fidelity, and not any of those things. It kind of surprises me that stuff which is designed for professionals (DJs) costs less than stuff which is designed for home use. Even the higher-end DJ cartridges cost maybe $150 Edit: on second though it's probably better to spend more on the cartridge and less on the turntable, no? Socket Ryanist fucked around with this message at 17:15 on Aug 25, 2011 |
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Aug 25, 2011 17:04
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Jerry Cotton posted:A lot of
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Aug 25, 2011 17:43
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DJ cartridges achieve everything you mentioned by being built very basically and rigidly. They do this at the cost of fidelity and record wear. DJ cartridges may tout reduced record wear, but they are comparing to other DJ cartridges, not Hi-Fi ones. I'm not trying to poo poo all over DJ carts, but it's like taxi cabs and Cadillacs. They are designed to be bought cheaply, run into the ground and then tossed. Hi-Fi carts don't start to get truly exceptional until well past $150, but you can find some very decent ones around that point. If you can get the deck cheaper, that leaves more room to move with the cart, which in an ideal world you should spend a good chunk of the budget on, but in reality... There's another entry level cart you might want to consider, the Audio Technica AT-95E. It plays well with the 1200 and it's pretty great value. It's not going to beat a much more expensive cart but it is good. A Little step up to just under a hundred will get you an Ortofon 2M Red, Which I haven't used personally. Can anyone comment on these? e: Can anyone comment on the Grado Green and Ortofon OM10 from experience? Ron Burgundy fucked around with this message at 17:50 on Aug 25, 2011 |
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Aug 25, 2011 17:44
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Ron Burgundy posted:There's another entry level cart you might want to consider, the Audio Technica AT-95E. It plays well with the 1200 and it's pretty great value. It's not going to beat a much more expensive cart but it is good. It beats a whole bunch of more expensive carts. This is helped a lot by the fact that it's currently 20,90€. Also, my OM10 should be in the mail. I had to order a lighter and more compliant cart for my Pioneer. I'd put the M97xe on there (not that it's light but it's hella compliant) but I've got it set up on a Technics headshell and I just can't be arsed. 
3D Megadoodoo fucked around with this message at 17:56 on Aug 25, 2011 |
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Aug 25, 2011 17:54
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I feel very hypocritical dispensing advice while listening to my records I washed with dish soap using a Stanton 500 BLU-TACKED inside an empty SPU headshell 
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Aug 25, 2011 17:58
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Ron Burgundy posted:I feel very hypocritical dispensing advice while listening to my records I washed with dish soap using a Stanton 500 BLU-TACKED inside an empty SPU headshell DEAR LORD!!! Everyone knows one should use only Faber-Castell Tack-It.
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Aug 25, 2011 18:04
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It has the sound stage of used bubblegum and the subtle tonal nuances of silly putty. I'm in heaven.
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Aug 25, 2011 18:06
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Ron Burgundy posted:A Little step up to just under a hundred will get you an Ortofon 2M Red, Which I haven't used personally. Can anyone comment on these? Great cart for the money and nobody seems to use them which is hilarious. Pick one up because IMO that Shure one was very disappointing. v  v
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Aug 25, 2011 23:21
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Ron Burgundy posted:DJ cartridges achieve everything you mentioned by being built very basically and rigidly. They do this at the cost of fidelity and record wear. DJ cartridges may tout reduced record wear, but they are comparing to other DJ cartridges, not Hi-Fi ones. I have an Ortofon 2M Red on a Project Debut III. For $100 it's a great cart for listening. If you're doing archival work look elsewhere as there can be some distortion towards the middle-end of the record. I will say this though, if I were going to be buying a cart for the Debut III again, I wouldn't go with the red because it requires a new (Heavier) counterweight for the Debut III. It's so heavy that the counterweight has to sit at the very end of the tone arm to get it properly balanced and is a bitch to adjust (Constantly slipping off).
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Aug 25, 2011 23:32
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HKR posted:I have an Ortofon 2M Red on a Project Debut III. For $100 it's a great cart for listening. If you're doing archival work look elsewhere as there can be some distortion towards the middle-end of the record. You've set something up wrong because I have this exact same setup and do not have this problem. I have the heavier counterweight and I haven't had to adjust it in over a year and it never moves at all. If you have everything the way it should be, you shouldn't need to fiddle with your counterweight frequently at all. Also the 'distortion' at the end of the record you may be hearing is the hum of the Debut III's motor which is clearly audible through any quiet part. I used some memory foam under where the transport screws go in on the motor to dampen it a bit. It barely helped though. There's a few threads on some other forums here and there about the d3's motor. Everyone hates it. I would go as far as recommending that this be mentioned in the OP where it suggests the d3. stay depressed fucked around with this message at 23:39 on Aug 25, 2011 |
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Aug 25, 2011 23:35
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Jerry Cotton posted:I've not yet tried one myself but I hear good things about the Denon 103 on the SL-1200 Mark 2 but it's a low-output system so while the cartridge itself is affordable, I would need extra kit to use it. I wonder if the 110 (high-output) is any good? I like DL-110 a lot. I've used both, and I actually think the 110 is better than the 103 in some respects. They're very different carts (low-compliance conical vs. medium-compliance special elliptical), so it's kind of apples and oranges though. The mids on the 110 aren't as good as the 103, but is has more detailed highs, and is less prone to sibilance. 110 is also a perfect match for the SL-1200 tonearm in terms of compliance. Personally, I think it is the best cartridge in its price range.
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Aug 25, 2011 23:55
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 Found an ad on Craigslist that was selling a Panasonic turntable for $15, and it had a new needle, too.
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Aug 26, 2011 01:21
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I found a record player at a goodwill for ten dollars after much searching. It works too! I only tested it through what is apparently a subwoofer. Now I just need to find speakers. On a budget. Yippie? It's a Panasonic RD-7673 if that means anything. I think it's much older than I am. Which is cool! I'm guessing some older electronics were donated all at once, as there were some really old antique radios there too.
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Aug 26, 2011 06:26
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You and I may both be searching for a preamp.
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Aug 26, 2011 12:18
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Red posted:You and I may both be searching for a preamp. Doh, totally forgot about that. I might need one of those too.
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Aug 26, 2011 12:39
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lack of a preamp should leave you lacking in bass, not an excess of it. If you have too much bass, either you're double-preamping, or the speaker in question is hosed up. Do you have a picture of the speaker?
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Aug 26, 2011 13:07
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I'm getting a preamp because the volume from this turntable is super low, both through speakers and headphones, and my previous turntable wasn't.
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Aug 26, 2011 13:23
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Red posted:I'm getting a preamp because the volume from this turntable is super low, both through speakers and headphones, and my previous turntable wasn't.
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Aug 26, 2011 13:35
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Next month is shaping up to be expensive between the Nevermind release, Star Wars Blu-ray, assorted stuff I'm forgetting, and now this (apparently 9/26): http://www.musiconvinyl.com/news/music_on_vinyl_to_release_universal_titles quote:News 
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Aug 26, 2011 13:58
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So I lack a dust cover for one of my turntables and I just came up with an ingenius idea to prevent my records getting dusty: Flip your slipmats over when you're not playing records. That way, dust will collect on the bottom side. Then flip them back over and the non-dusty side will come into contact with your records 
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Aug 26, 2011 15:15
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Socket Ryanist posted:So I lack a dust cover for one of my turntables and I just came up with an ingenius idea to prevent my records getting dusty: Holy mothercunting poo poo - are you a wizard?  Although a cover would still be nice.
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Aug 26, 2011 17:08
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Carl FTWinslow posted:You've set something up wrong because I have this exact same setup and do not have this problem. I have the heavier counterweight and I haven't had to adjust it in over a year and it never moves at all. If you have everything the way it should be, you shouldn't need to fiddle with your counterweight frequently at all. Also the 'distortion' at the end of the record you may be hearing is the hum of the Debut III's motor which is clearly audible through any quiet part. I used some memory foam under where the transport screws go in on the motor to dampen it a bit. It barely helped though. The Pro-Ject motor hum is a very common fault with many of their turntables (my old Pro-Ject Xperience exhibited it as well) which share the same motor mounting assembly. The hum is caused by the vibration of the motor travelling through that lovely rubber band support directly into the plinth. Essentially, it's just a really badly thought out isolation system (seriously, did they even test it?). Fortunately, some enterprising person (not me) came up with a fix, an 'official' version of which is now also available from Pro-Ject (they have also modified the mounting system on the new Debut). More details on this VinylEngine thread here: http://www.vinylengine.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=39274 And here is the page with details of the original fix: http://www.theapplechap.com/TheAppleChap/Blog/Entries/2011/5/24_Enhancing_the_sound_from_Pro-ject_turntables_by_removing_rumble.html I can't verify the fix, as my Xperience has long gone, just putting the info out there in case it's of use to anyone
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Aug 26, 2011 17:38
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So Jeff Mangum just put up a massive new website for Neutral Milk Hotel, including news that a new vinyl boxset is coming out in November, containing everything they've ever released (On Avery Island, In the Aeroplane Over the Sea, Everything Is) three seven inches (one with Holland, 1945 b/w engine, one with two unreleased tracks, one with two versions of the track Little Bird) a 10 inch with 8 unreleased tracks and two posters. The website is here, http://www.walkingwallofwords.com/releases.html and also contains a stream with two of the unreleased tracks (Oh Sister/Ferris Wheel on Fire). e: in my excitement I totally messed up what was actually in the boxset, fixed that. LtTennisBall fucked around with this message at 18:19 on Aug 26, 2011 |
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Aug 26, 2011 18:15
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Cheesus posted:Next month is shaping up to be expensive between the Nevermind release, Star Wars Blu-ray, assorted stuff I'm forgetting, and now this (apparently 9/26): The problem about Music on Vinyl is that since they're based in the Netherlands, everything they release is very expensive to import. Their releases are normally like $40-50 for single LPs.
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Aug 26, 2011 18:44
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