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Harminoff posted:Does that make them homophones? Only if their names are Jean and Gene.
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Aug 29, 2011 00:26
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Okay, so after watching Never Sleep Again I decided to go see New Nightmare because it's supposed to be one of the best in the series. I've got about 30 minutes to go and one person got killed on screen in the entire movie. I'm not about body count at all in a horror movie but at least in the 'Freddy Krueger is a Looney Toon' sequels stuff actually happened.
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Aug 29, 2011 00:26
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I'm a firm believer in the idea that the higher body count a horror movie (particularly a slasher movie) has, the more desperate and probably bad it is. If I'm remembering correctly, New Nightmare has a body count of four, which is the same as the original Nightmare, and, I think, the same as the original Halloween.
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Aug 29, 2011 00:30
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LtKenFrankenstein posted:I'm a firm believer in the idea that the higher body count a horror movie (particularly a slasher movie) has, the more desperate and probably bad it is. If I'm remembering correctly, New Nightmare has a body count of four, which is the same as the original Nightmare, and, I think, the same as the original Halloween. I agree with your sentiment but I guess in the original it was better spaced out or built up. This one is just boring. It's like Wes Craven just went, "Heh. Meta." and called it a night, recycling murders from the original under the guise of it being 'meta'. I loved the original and it certainly didn't need any more killings.
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Aug 29, 2011 00:35
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Fair enough. New Nightmare definitely is a love-it-or-hate-it kinda movie. Personally, I think it's loving great, and features probably the best acting overall of any movie in the franchise, but I get why some people aren't into it. The climax in particular is admittedly goofy.
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Aug 29, 2011 00:37
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LtKenFrankenstein posted:Fair enough. New Nightmare definitely is a love-it-or-hate-it kinda movie. Personally, I think it's loving great, and features probably the best acting overall of any movie in the franchise, but I get why some people aren't into it. The climax in particular is admittedly goofy. It definitely has it's moments. The idea is fun, the image of Freddy upside down with the babysitter while the child is sitting on the hospital bed is quite eye-catching, the acting is indeed the best of the series... I'm just missing the dread from the original or, call it blasphemy, even some of the cornier entries in the series. Freddy just sort of... does stuff. I mean, nothing really seems directed, or with purpose. Which made sense when he was just toying with people, but that's not his goal here so it doesn't quite work for me. 15 minutes left on the clock though, so maybe the 'goofy climax' will make me a believer  vvvv Novel and fun, I agree. But to me it seems to get in the way of any sense of dread. vvvv Dissapointed Owl fucked around with this message at 00:44 on Aug 29, 2011 |
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Aug 29, 2011 00:42
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I think it's important to see New Nightmare in the context of the time it was released too. We're all used to post-modern, self-aware meta-horror now, especially since Craven's own Scream, but for 1994 it was a pretty novel idea.
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Aug 29, 2011 00:42
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Crackerman posted:I think it's important to see New Nightmare in the context of the time it was released too. We're all used to post-modern, self-aware meta-horror now, especially since Craven's own Scream, but for 1994 it was a pretty novel idea. This is kind of a frightening idea though, in a way. If such 'self-aware meta-horror', which in most cases is probably used as a (last) resort in the way of being original in a horror film, has gone stale... where does horror have left to go? Or has meta horror become a cheap tactic by horror writers these days? Or maybe it's just a side-genre that's just going to be there, I don't really know what I'm talking about here. It's late and my brain is shutting down.
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Aug 29, 2011 00:54
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A lot of that kind of thing is cyclical. Self-aware meta-horror has given away to a lot of found footage horror and torture porn, both of which will (and are) becoming self-aware. It all just goes round and round.
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Aug 29, 2011 00:55
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Crackerman posted:A lot of that kind of thing is cyclical. Self-aware meta-horror has given away to a lot of found footage horror and torture porn, both of which will (and are) becoming self-aware. It all just goes round and round. Exactly what I was thinking. vvv It was a pretty silly thought. vvv Dissapointed Owl fucked around with this message at 01:02 on Aug 29, 2011 |
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Aug 29, 2011 00:57
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Yeah, I mean, metafiction's been around for a long rear end time now and fiction in general hasn't died off from a lack of options. I'd say horror'll be just fine.
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Aug 29, 2011 01:00
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Okay, so having finished New Nightmare... Yeah, not a fan. What I would like to see, though, is a movie directed by a quality director working with a fleshed out version of Peter Jackson's script for Elmstreet 6. That sounded really original and full of potential. I was hooked by the very basic idea of it. Could've been something special.
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Aug 29, 2011 01:11
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What was the premise?
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Aug 29, 2011 01:17
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HUNDU THE BEAST GOD posted:What was the premise? Freddy had become weak in the dream world since, well... his many deaths I guess, and kids were going into self induced sleep 'trips' into the dream world to beat the poo poo out of old, feeble Freddy. Until he manages to kill one... I mean, it could've been really bad. But at last it was being creative with the franchise and, as opposed to the scripts of almost every other Elmstreet movie, this one actually seemed to have potential if given quality direction... which it probably wouldn't have gotten anyway.
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Aug 29, 2011 01:21
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That does sound interesting, more interesting than what we got, at least.
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Aug 29, 2011 01:34
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I just got back from seeing Don't Be Afraid of the Dark. I thought it was pretty bad. Maybe not godawful but a really serious disappointment considering the cast (well, the girl and Guy Pearce anyway) and the director. I know this was just stated on the last page but the thing that really kills it for me is the extremely stupid actions by the characters, in particular: after the parents finally realize that maybe there really ARE some ugly spider monkeys they take their sweet rear end time leaving, packing up some luggage and poo poo instead of just picking up the loving girl and walking out of the house. Similarly both the adults had been knocked out on the ground and the spider monkeys just let them live even though earlier in the film they had been shown to be vicious and not having any problems with at least attempting to kill someone. Also there's just something not really intimidating about the monsters because they were so goddamn small.
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Aug 29, 2011 01:35
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Dissapointed Owl posted:Freddy had become weak in the dream world since, well... his many deaths I guess, and kids were going into self induced sleep 'trips' into the dream world to beat the poo poo out of old, feeble Freddy. Until he manages to kill one... the title was really neat. "The Dream Lovers"
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Aug 29, 2011 01:39
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TheBigBudgetSequel posted:the title was really neat. "The Dream Lovers" Yeah, I caught that too. Sounds good, man. The X-files episode 'X-Cops' was the best Freddy Krueger movie.
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Aug 29, 2011 01:48
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Dissapointed Owl posted:The X-files episode 'X-Cops' was the best Freddy Krueger movie. It's also the name of a GWAR side project.
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Aug 29, 2011 01:50
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Dissapointed Owl posted:Freddy had become weak in the dream world since, well... his many deaths I guess, and kids were going into self induced sleep 'trips' into the dream world to beat the poo poo out of old, feeble Freddy. Until he manages to kill one... That's a much cooler idea than I thought it would be, the idea of a Freddy movie as a tired old theme park is basically the same idea as New Nightmare, except not as self consciously clever.
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Aug 29, 2011 02:24
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Watched 'AvP' on blu-ray for the first time, still don't hate the movie. I watched the blu-ray "trivia track" that does pop-up text, and was surprised to find out it was written entirely in-universe and it was exclusively random trivia from the comic books and poo poo. It got a few facts wrong but that's okay. About to watch 'Alien' on blu-ray for the first time, can't wait! 
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Aug 29, 2011 02:52
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Paiz posted:I just got back from seeing Don't Be Afraid of the Dark. I thought it was pretty bad. Maybe not godawful but a really serious disappointment considering the cast (well, the girl and Guy Pearce anyway) and the director. I'll agree with you on the movie being bad but I gotta disagree on your complaint there. They didn't think there really were weird rear end creatures crawling around, they thought that Sally was having severe mental/psychological issues but were ignoring it. I guess I shouldn't say "they" since it really was Guy Pearce's character who really dismissed everything while Katie Holmes was hesitantly believing Sally (who knew a Scientologist would be willing to believe such a batshit insane idea?!) and took the initiative to get out of the house. So they were taking their sweet time because they only saw a damaged little girl instead of an actual threat. Really though the movie's main problem was that it wasn't scary. The creatures are not terrifying, they never feel like a serious threat and the decision to show them as much as possible was a big mistake. I remember reading about how Guillermo Del Toro made a big stink about how he HAD to keep the ending for this movie even though it was 'dark' but I thought it was pretty standard. Del Toro is becoming more and more overrated to me.
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Aug 29, 2011 06:42
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While we're on the subject of New Nightmare, can someone explain the meta-ness to me? It's been quite a while since I've seen it and if I remember right it pretty much begins and ends with the fact that "Freddy is in THE REAL WORLD now!" Is there more to it? EDIT: I guess what I'm asking is, does it mean anything that Freddy's in the real world or is it just a cool gimmick?
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Aug 29, 2011 07:05
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lizardman posted:While we're on the subject of New Nightmare, can someone explain the meta-ness to me? It's been quite a while since I've seen it and if I remember right it pretty much begins and ends with the fact that "Freddy is in THE REAL WORLD now!" Is there more to it? It's a Nightmare movie that's aware that its a movie series.
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Aug 29, 2011 07:24
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lizardman posted:While we're on the subject of New Nightmare, can someone explain the meta-ness to me? It's been quite a while since I've seen it and if I remember right it pretty much begins and ends with the fact that "Freddy is in THE REAL WORLD now!" Is there more to it? The actors all play themselves (except for Heather's husband, who is a fictional version of her real husband, who is really a SFX Makeup guy, and her son) and it takes place in a world where Wes Craven made A Nightmare on Elm Street and it was a huge horror franchise. Fake Edit: Beaten, Kind of. drat it.
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Aug 29, 2011 07:27
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LtKenFrankenstein posted:
It's fun to go through and read things like that. As a fan of the series, I sometimes forget they're bad movies and it's just Doug Bradley's performance that makes me think they are good.
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Aug 29, 2011 07:44
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There's an unused soundtrack by avant-garde artist Coil that was produced for the first Hellraiser film. Unfortunately the studio forced them to remove it in favor of something more conventional. Here's their version of the box music: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3zDsnb3kLcs
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Aug 29, 2011 08:03
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lizardman posted:While we're on the subject of New Nightmare, can someone explain the meta-ness to me? It's been quite a while since I've seen it and if I remember right it pretty much begins and ends with the fact that "Freddy is in THE REAL WORLD now!" Is there more to it? It wasn't well done but apparently the film is saying that evil forces exist, and in the process of dreaming up this film, Wes Craven gave evil the Freddy Krueger identity making it real. The film will capture this evil by giving it an outlet to express itself. Heather Langenkamp had become the literal personification of good somehow, so Freddy is after her because she's who stops him in the film. And if she's dead she can't do that and he can be evil forever. Some poo poo like that..
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Aug 29, 2011 08:04
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ZombieParts posted:As a fan of the series, I sometimes forget they're bad movies and it's just Doug Bradley's performance that makes me think they are good. I don't think the first Hellraiser is a bad movie at all. I think it's quite good, it's one of my favorite horror movies. And it's much more "Frank"'s movie than Pinhead's I think Frank is one of the best horror villains, and his character is very well "fleshed out" so to speak  . Pinhead just became a nice easily identifiable one liner dispensing action figure cliche, is all.
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Aug 29, 2011 08:08
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Zwabu posted:I don't think the first Hellraiser is a bad movie at all. I think it's quite good, it's one of my favorite horror movies. And it's much more "Frank"'s movie than Pinhead's I think Frank is one of the best horror villains, and his character is very well "fleshed out" so to speak Yeah Pinhead is never a major thing in that movie. He's just loving cool as hell so he became this cult figure that grew into something way bigger than it deserved to be ala Boba Fett.
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Aug 29, 2011 08:14
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ZombieParts posted:It wasn't well done but apparently the film is saying that evil forces exist, and in the process of dreaming up this film, Wes Craven gave evil the Freddy Krueger identity making it real. The film will capture this evil by giving it an outlet to express itself. Heather Langenkamp had become the literal personification of good somehow, so Freddy is after her because she's who stops him in the film. And if she's dead she can't do that and he can be evil forever. When the movies ended, the evil spirit that inhabited Freddy was freed. Making a new movie will trap him again for a period of time. Killing Heather means the movie won't get made. Not that hard to get.
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Aug 29, 2011 08:14
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Clive Barker has written a sequel novel to The Hellbound Heart that explains everything about the universe but can't find anyone to publish it, apparently. Apparently it takes place in a shared universe with The Great And Secret Show.
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Aug 29, 2011 08:18
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TOOT BOOT posted:Clive Barker has written a sequel novel to The Hellbound Heart that explains everything about the universe but can't find anyone to publish it, apparently. See the thing is, I don't really need, or WANT to know everything about the Cenobites. I like them just as they are, mysterious mofos who show up when you mess with the box and have such sights to show you. "The Box. You opened it. We came."
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Aug 29, 2011 08:20
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Zwabu posted:See the thing is, I don't really need, or WANT to know everything about the Cenobites. I like them just as they are, mysterious mofos who show up when you mess with the box and have such sights to show you. "The Box. You opened it. We came." I trust Clive Barker to come up with an interesting explanation for how these things work. Though I guess I mostly want to erase the awful way the movies elaborated on the story.
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Aug 29, 2011 08:36
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I really wanted to enjoy the hell out of Don't Be Afraid of the Dark, and for a half hour or so I was pretty fascinated. I just didn't like a lot of the decisions that were made - both by the filmmakers and by the characters - after that point. I feel like it would have been a much more effective experience if we actually got to explore the whole "the Tooth Fairy is actually a tremendously hosed up tale involving these horrid little creatures" angle and never really got to see what the creatures looked like beyond brief glimpses. Instead we got hints to the former and the complete opposite of the latter. By the time that one creature appeared front and center as large as the screen itself and yelled "WE WANT YOU! RAAARGH!" I was completely removed from actually being frightened by these things - or caring about what happened. Some of the decisions the characters made have already been brought up, so I won't tread too much in that direction. Honestly, though - you've officially got proof that something's tremendously hosed, and you're taking forever to leave this house why?
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Aug 29, 2011 12:35
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Looked Shark Night 3D up on IMDB because... why not. And I must say I have been completely won over by this review:IMDB reviewer posted:The Most Explosive Teenage-Horror Movie of All Time! A tremendously Jaw-Dropping Cinematic Experience! Dudes, best teenage-horror movie since Insidious! Which didn't even have teens but whatever! Action? Suspense? Fuckin' HORROR?! Someone catch me, I'm getting the vapours. Fights between the sharks but also, check this poo poo out, fights BETWEEN THE TEENAGERS THEMSELVES! We've reached maximum freshness with this material. As a cherry on top, it's predictable as well? That sounds... Truly amazing. Ten out of ten. Top that, 'Saving Private Perez'! Trivia! 'Director David R. Ellis wanted to release the film under the title, "Untitled 3D Shark Thriller".' Either that's slightly 'clever' in acknowledging the film will be incredibly tongue in cheek and purposely derivative of the entire genre.... Or it's really retarded. Edit: Also, has anyone seen Dead Air? Never heard of it. I loved the first half of Pontypool and this sounds similiar. Is it worth your time? Dissapointed Owl fucked around with this message at 13:20 on Aug 29, 2011 |
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Aug 29, 2011 13:17
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TOOT BOOT posted:I trust Clive Barker to come up with an interesting explanation for how these things work. Franchises shouldn't be afraid to answer questions because franchises that never reveal anything get stale fast. At the same time, if you have a series that answers all of the questions (particularly if its done quickly and in an unsatisfying way) then it gets boring. So in an ideal scenario, each chapter, episode or season should deliver on successfully solving a previous mystery, but should plausibly introduce new questions. The X-Files did this to some degree, but often there's more hype than payoff. Still pretty good though. In my opinion, the most successful franchise tease vs payoff ever is Babylon 5. I can't think of very many movies that have successfully done the slow, steady reveal without going all in and ruining everything.
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Aug 29, 2011 16:58
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StickySweater posted:Franchises shouldn't be afraid to answer questions because franchises that never reveal anything get stale fast. At the same time, if you have a series that answers all of the questions (particularly if its done quickly and in an unsatisfying way) then it gets boring. I think the issue here is that Hellraiser being a "franchise" is kinda forced in the first place. It was originally a standalone novel/movie that was really lucky to have one really good sequel before it got swallowed up by the '80s slasher movie machine. That being said, some of the comics are really cool.
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Aug 29, 2011 17:19
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LtKenFrankenstein posted:I think the issue here is that Hellraiser being a "franchise" is kinda forced in the first place. It was originally a standalone novel/movie that was really lucky to have one really good sequel before it got swallowed up by the '80s slasher movie machine.
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Aug 29, 2011 19:40
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Dissapointed Owl posted:The Most Explosive Teenage-Horror Movie of All Time! A tremendously Jaw-Dropping Cinematic Experience! Wait.. PG13? I'm all for watching terrible shark movies like Deep Blue Sea but sharks kill people by chewing their limbs off. How the gently caress do you make a PG13 shark movie?
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Aug 29, 2011 20:04
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